Talk:Infantry

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Old discussion

The US army link seems superfluous. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Chadloder (talk • contribs) 21:02, 24 January 2003.

Apparently, this link has since been deleted. -- Centrx 23:28, 1 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"In the modern period, the term "infantryman" is reserved for the most basic of infantry troops, the rifleman." Within the Army, at least, that's not the case, even if you only thought of the 11b's as infantry. there's a lot more to the infantry than just the rifleman. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.185.138.253 (talk • contribs) 14:31, 4 May 2005.

In the US Army and the US Marine Corps, "Infantry" is considered a "Career Group", and there are a whole brace of seperate "Career Specialties" or "Military Ocupational Specialties" that are subheaded under "Infantry". Indeed, in the Marine Corps, they go further than that by stating that ALL marines are Infantry first, and another specialty second. For example, they remain the only service that trains its aircraft pilots by first teaching them how to be Riflemen, and then how to fly aircraft. -- SSG Cornelius Seon (Retired) 23:43, 7 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Marine as soldier

Regarding Necrothesp's recent revert:

How are marines not soldiers? They are combatants in military service with a body of men armed for war. A marine is a special kind of soldier, but nevertheless a marine falls into the larger, inclusive class of soldiers, and a reference to "soldier" is a reference to all of the members of that class.

In what military is the infantry is a special "branch" of service, and how is this "branch" any different than a unit of infantry that is already described by the description of the term "infantry" itself? - Centrx 19:00, 24 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

In the Canadian Army, the Infantry Branch is one of the official branches.Michael Dorosh 05:43, 10 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

In the Royal Netherlands Army the Infantry is an official branch refered to as: "wapen" (weapon) alongside with cavelry, artillery and signals. Brisbane2000 11:13, 12 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Marines do not appreciate being called soldiers. They are marines. Soldiers are members of the army. You wouldn't call sailors or airmen soldiers would you? In most armies the infantry is a branch of service, just as the cavalry, artillery, engineers etc are branches of service. What is so controversial about that? -- Necrothesp 21:16, 24 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

* That many or most marines do not appreciate being called soldiers does not mean that they are not soldiers; the meaning of the word is independent of the particular wishes of a particular group of people at a particular time. That the marines wish to distinguish themselves as more elite than the grunts of the Army does not mean that they themselves are not part of an army: a land force, armed for war; and it does not mean that men who generally fight as they do were not called soldiers 100 years ago or 100 years hence, and even now by some. As for sailors and airmen, by some definitions they do qualify as soldiers, but there I defer to the expert lexicographers at the OED and Webster. For the meaning you refer to, airmen and sailors are not land forces and some may not even have a sidearm.

* The term "branch" of a military usually means Army, Navy, etc. It is at the very least unclear to say that the infantry is a branch of a military. Further, are these Infantry Divisions and Engineer Brigades any different from being divisions of infantry and brigades for engineering? If not, then the terms "Infantry" and "Engineer" of these units are simply adjectival uses of the same "infantry" meaning we already have in the article here. We don't need to say on the article for "fighter" that "fighter" or "fighter wing" is a branch of the military, nor for "medical" or "support". - Centrx 02:07, 25 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Incorrect. In Canada, the Army is a colloquial term for "Land Force Command", the Air Force a term for "Air Command", etc. The Infantry Branch is one of many branches. As far as US military terminology, you seem extremely muddled. I suggest you look up the definition of "formation" which is what a division is. An Infantry Division actually has units from several branches, infantry included.Michael Dorosh 05:45, 10 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The term "branch" usually means on the order of Army, Navy, Air Force. There are infantry divisions within the Canadian Land Force, but the branches of the Canadian military are not Infantry, Armoured, Bombers, etc. etc. An infantry division has non-infantry units, but the role of those non-infantry units is to support the primary brigades that is the core of the division and the reason it is maneuvered. —Centrx→talk • 07:32, 10 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I really have no idea what you are talking about. What are "Bombers"? The Infantry Branch is the official title. I personally belong to the Logistics Branch but belong to an infantry regiment, which is part of the Infantry Branch. It is an administrative entity; tactically and operationally we belong to a Brigade (a formation). But the Infantry Branch oversees training throughout the branch. It used to be called the Royal Canadian Infantry Corps (and may still be), which is not the same as a formation of the same name (corps). You're confusing administrative entities with tactical formations.Michael Dorosh 03:52, 19 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Can you substantiate the claim it's a Branch and not a Corps? I'm tempted to take the Infantry School's claim of training a corps over your claim it trains a branch. I can find no Internet-based evidence of a Royal Canadian Infantry Branch (but I can find the Royal Canadian Infantry Corps). I don't have access to anything beyond the Internet presently, so can't go beyond that. Kenny.am 18:40, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I doubt Canadian watering down of a title extends to the rest of the world. It's not unlikely other countries have retained the title of Infantry Corps. Kenny.am 18:40, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Quotations

The quotations seem meaningless and unnecessary for leading readers to a truer understanding of infantry - is there really a strong case to be made for their inclusion?Michael Dorosh 00:28, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think there is, though some are better than others and are fairly good at conveying an impression. —Centrx→talk • 08:20, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Infanteer

The term "infantryman" is itself a gender-neutral descriptor, so stating that "infanteer" is somehow more "gender friendly" is erroneous. The term "infantryman" is applied equally correctly to both men and women. I've removed the reference to this term not because it is not true that the term is in use, but because there is no source as to how common it is. The subject is one of hot debate at, say, army.ca as many seem to prefer the traditional name "infantryman". Michael Dorosh 00:28, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This debate extends beyond one website and its usage beyond the CF. Kindly keep your comments to the realm of, say, mature. Kenny.am 18:40, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

If you have evidence that the debate extends beyond one website, then do feel free to present that evidence here for discussion. Also avoid the use of personal attacks, and remember to sign your comments.Michael Dorosh 13:11, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think he must mean the more general "politically correct" use of "congresswoman", "congressperson", "policewoman", etc. I don't see any reason to use these terms, as "-man" and "man" have well-attested use referring to humans of either gender or in general, but "infanteer" seems to be an especially non-standard use, whereas at least the -person and -woman formations are rather common nowadays. —Centrx→talk • 05:00, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]