Wikipedia:Featured article candidates

For the similar process page for good articles, see Wikipedia:Good article nominations.

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This star, with one point broken, indicates that an article is a candidate on this page. Here, we determine which articles are to be featured articles (FAs). FAs exemplify Wikipedia's very best work and satisfy the FA criteria. All editors are welcome to review nominations; please see the review FAQ. Before nominating an article, nominators may wish to receive feedback by listing it at Peer review and adding the review to the FAC peer review sidebar. Editors considering their first nomination, and any subsequent nomination before their first FA promotion, are strongly advised to seek the involvement of a mentor, to assist in the preparation and processing of the nomination. Nominators must be sufficiently familiar with the subject matter and sources to deal with objections during the featured article candidates (FAC) process. Nominators who are not significant contributors to the article should consult regular editors of the article before nominating it. Nominators are expected to respond positively to constructive criticism and to make efforts to address objections promptly. An article should not be on Featured article candidates and Peer review or Good article nominations at the same time. The FAC coordinators—Ian Rose, Gog the Mild, David Fuchs and FrB.TG—determine the timing of the process for each nomination. For a nomination to be promoted to FA status, consensus must be reached that it meets the criteria. Consensus is built among reviewers and nominators; the coordinators determine whether there is consensus. A nomination will be removed from the list and archived if, in the judgment of the coordinators: actionable objections have not been resolved; consensus for promotion has not been reached; insufficient information has been provided by reviewers to judge whether the criteria have been met; or a nomination is unprepared. It is assumed that all nominations have good qualities; this is why the main thrust of the process is to generate and resolve critical comments in relation to the criteria, and why such resolution is given considerably more weight than declarations of support. Do not use graphics or complex templates on FAC nomination pages. Graphics such as  Done and  Not done slow down the page load time, and complex templates can lead to errors in the FAC archives. For technical reasons, templates that are acceptable are {{collapse top}} and {{collapse bottom}}, used to hide offtopic discussions, and templates such as {{green}} that apply colours to text and are used to highlight examples without altering fonts. Other templates such as {{done}}, {{not done}}, {{tq}}, {{tq2}}, and {{xt}}, may be removed. An editor is allowed to be the sole nominator of only one article at a time, but two nominations are allowed if the editor is a co-nominator on at least one of them. If a nomination is archived, the nominator(s) should take adequate time to work on resolving issues before re-nominating. None of the nominators may nominate or co-nominate any article for two weeks unless given leave to do so by a coordinator; if such an article is nominated without asking for leave, a coordinator will decide whether to remove it. A coordinator may exempt from this restriction an archived nomination that attracted no (or minimal) feedback. Nominations in urgent need of review are listed here. To contact the FAC coordinators, please leave a message on the FAC talk page, or use the {{@FAC}} notification template elsewhere. A bot will update the article talk page after the article is promoted or the nomination archived; the delay in bot processing can range from minutes to several days, and the {{FAC}} template should remain on the talk page until the bot updates {{Article history}}. Table of Contents – This page:

Featured content: Featured articles ← Featured lists Featured pictures Featured topics Featured article candidates (FAC) Featured article criteria Featured article log Featured article statistics Featured article review (FAR) Former featured articles Unreviewed featured articles/2020 Today's featured article (TFA): This month's queue About Today's featured article Recent TFAs and statistics Current TFA requests Potential TFA requests TFA oddities Most viewed TFAs Featured articles yet to appear as TFA Script to track TFA recent changes Featured article tools: Mentoring for FAC Nominators of featured articles promoted Recent changes to featured articles Random featured article

Nominating How to nominate an article Nomination procedure Before nominating an article, ensure that it meets all of the FA criteria and that peer reviews are closed and archived. Place {{subst:FAC}} at the top of the talk page of the nominated article and save the page. From the FAC template, click on the red "initiate the nomination" link or the blue "leave comments" link. You will see pre-loaded information; leave that text. If you are unsure how to complete a nomination, please post to the FAC talk page for assistance. Below the preloaded title, complete the nomination page, sign with ~~~~, and save the page. Copy this text: {{Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/name of nominated article/archiveNumber}} (substituting Number), and edit this page (i.e., the page you are reading at the moment), pasting the template at the top of the list of candidates. Replace "name of ..." with the name of your nomination. This will transclude the nomination into this page. In the event that the title of the nomination page differs from this format, use the page's title instead. Commenting, etc Commenting, supporting and opposing Supporting and opposing To respond to a nomination, click the "Edit" link to the right of the article nomination (not the "Edit this page" link for the whole FAC page). All editors are welcome to review nominations; see the review FAQ for an overview of the review process. To support a nomination, write *'''Support''', followed by your reason(s), which should be based on a full reading of the text. If you have been a significant contributor to the article before its nomination, please indicate this. A reviewer who specializes in certain areas of the FA criteria should indicate whether the support is applicable to all of the criteria. To oppose a nomination, write *'''Object''' or *'''Oppose''', followed by your reason(s). Each objection must provide a specific rationale that can be addressed. If nothing can be done in principle to address the objection, a coordinator may disregard it. References on style and grammar do not always agree; if a contributor cites support for a certain style in a standard reference work or other authoritative source, reviewers should consider accepting it. Reviewers who object are strongly encouraged to return after a few days to check whether their objection has been addressed. To withdraw the objection, strike it out (with <s> ... </s>) rather than removing it. Alternatively, reviewers may transfer lengthy, resolved commentary to the FAC archive talk page, leaving a link in a note on the FAC archive. To provide constructive input on a nomination without specifically supporting or objecting, write *'''Comment''' followed by your advice. For ease of editing, a reviewer who enters lengthy commentary may create a neutral fourth-level subsection, named either ==== Review by EditorX ==== or ==== Comments by EditorX ==== (do not use third-level or higher section headers). Please do not create subsections for short statements of support or opposition—for these a simple *'''Support''',*'''Oppose''', or *'''Comment''' followed by your statement of opinion, is sufficient. Please do not use a semicolon to bold a subheading; this creates accessibility problems. Specifically, a semi-colon creates an HTML description list with a description term list item. As a result, assistive technology is unable to identify the text in question as a heading and thus provide navigation to it, and screen readers will make extra list start/item/end announcements. If a nominator feels that an Oppose has been addressed, they should say so, either after the reviewer's signature, or by interspersing their responses in the list provided by the reviewer. Per talk page guidelines, nominators should not cap, alter, strike, or add graphics to comments from other editors. If a nominator finds that an opposing reviewer is not returning to the nomination page to revisit improvements, this should be noted on the nomination page, with a diff to the reviewer's talk page showing the request to reconsider.

Add new nominations on top, one section per nomination.

Nominated articles

Behavioral finance

Partial self-nom - I added to pgreenfinch's original behavioural finance page. I think it's a good and well referenced article on a fairly interesting subset of finance/economics. But I might be biased :) Psychobabble

Dystopia

Clear, to the point, and I like it. Ivan 03:41, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Object. Most of the article is a bullet-point list. Turn into prose, please.--Eloquence*

Battle of the Somme (1916)

Absolutely effing brilliant. What else can I say? Johnleemk | Talk 15:44, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• Object. (1) Some of the casualty figures (especially those in the infobox and the "Casualties" section the figures for the Germans) need to provide a breakdown into killed, wounded, POW, missing (or at least an estimate). (2) The claim about the first day on the Somme being the bloodiest day in British history is doubtful (estimates for the battle of Towton suggest 20,000–28,000 dead); maybe the claim could be qualified. (3) There ought to be a mention of the cultural response to the Somme. Siegfried Sassoon, Ivor Gurney, Robert Graves and other war poets were at the battle and left powerful accounts. Was there a corresponding German response? Gdr 21:09, 2004 Oct 31 (UTC) P.S. Otherwise, great article!
  • Storm of Steel by Ernst Junger is the best known personal German account of the battle. Geoff/Gsl 21:20, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Re: "bloodiest day", I've qualifyed it as the "bloodiest day in the history of the British Army" which is how it is usually described. I obviously got a bit carried away in the translation... Geoff/Gsl 23:32, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Robert Walpole

-- Emsworth 19:00, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• Object: Atterbury's trial and exile had nothing to do with the South Sea Bubble. It was tied in with the Report of the White Staff that had indicted St. John and Harley. That has to be addressed as factually incorrect. I have other suggestions, but those are on the Talk page of the article. Since all the folks I study are enemies of Walpole, I cannot help but have absorbed their points of view. The matters on the talk page don't have to be addressed, but the Atterbury implication that the Bubble was going to be exploited by Jacobites does. The Jacobites were just as unprepared for the bubble as the dissenters. Geogre 01:50, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • The Atterbury objection has been addressed, as have some of the others which I happen to agree with. -- Emsworth 02:53, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Kangaroo

I think its rather good. ZayZayEM 01:27, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• Minor Objection. 1)The references only cover a small part of the information in the article. 2)Some of the units are not wiki linked. 3) The first image has no copyright tag. Martyman 01:46, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Object. Overly short - more could be written on the topic, I'm sure. Ambi 02:13, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)

There is more information about each species in seperate articles. Though, mention of the numerous car accidents they cause would be good. Martyman 02:17, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• Support. Revth 09:08, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Kangaroos are commonly depicted as are great boxers, particularly in cartoons. Is that something worthy of mention? A little non-serious, I know. violet/riga (t) 09:28, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Cultural references would be one section that wouldn't be bad here. Ambi 11:22, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Yeah I am sort of leaning back a bit for not enough content. I have some details on kangaroo fighting I'll add. (vs dogs, humans and apparently drowning hawks...)--ZayZayEM 14:19, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Lottie Dod

Self-nomination. Jeronimo 15:38, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• SupportZayZayEM 01:32, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support: An external web link would be a good addition. Geogre 02:22, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • I know, but I haven't been able to find much more than the meagre bio currently listed under references. I'll keep on searching. Jeronimo 11:19, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Possibly on a "Women athletes of the century" kind of thing (ESPN did one of those)? I am not really a see-also person, but a Wimbleton history or women in sports see-also or external link would at least be something, even if not specific to Dod. Geogre 15:55, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Treaty establishing a constitution for Europe

Self-nomination (sort of). This article is the product of an initial detailed structure by myself followed by and a great deal of work by a number of people with expertise in EU politics. It's attracted lots of discussion on the talk page, all of which has been resolved amicably and led to substantial improvements, and has also prompted some recent comments saying how good it is! Structure is clear and it's also very topical. Toby W 11:24, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• Object. 1) Remove all the bold-face outside of the lead section. 2) There are some very brief sections that need work. Especially the "Reaction" section is quite ridiculous, with one reaction from a single person (which I have never heard of, either). 3) Much of the article is a bullet list, while more explanation is needed for much of the text. For example: "The European Union has legal personality." What does that mean? It should be explained, and also be explained what the consequences are of this. This applies for nearly all of the bulleted items. 4) In general, I have no clear idea what this article is about. It partially seems to be about the proposed constitution itself, but the title and lead section suggest otherwise. This needs to be cleared out, and if necessary parts should be moved to appropriate articles. 5) The section "controversy" would be better named as "Critique". Jeronimo 11:39, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for the hints. 1) I agree about the bold face. 2) The Reaction section could do with a balancing quote from another source (but I understand Rifkin is a major figure in British pro-EU politics). 3) The bullet list strikes me as more of a structural simplification than an indication of terseness, but I'll look at which points need expanding. 4) Sorry, I don't understand what you mean; it's about the EU constitutional treaty, whose official title is the title of the article, and whose contents are described in the body of the article. 5) Noted. Cheers Toby W 11:43, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I've now made these changes, except for the Rifkin quote, which I'll bring up on the talk page. Toby W

• Object to the title. The title of the article is not narrow enough. It should disambiguate which treaty it deals with (for example by including the year), and specify that the consitution only concerns the European Union. Even if Treaty establishing a constitution for Europe is the official title of the document, it is not suitable for an NPOV enyclopaedia. Suggested new article title: "2004 treaty establishing a constitution for the European Union". — David Remahl 11:48, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Another objection: I seriously doubt that all of the article's claims are supported by the single magazine article in the References section. — David Remahl 11:51, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)

The title was originally something like European Union constitutional treaty 2004, but it was agreed to change it to the correct title of the document itself. As for the references, you're right - because most of the claims come directly from the treaty itself. I'll move the link to that treaty into the references section. Thanks. Toby W

Some would call that original research. I will have a look at the discussion about the title change, and see if that resolves my objection. — David Remahl 14:20, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but I can't find the discussion about the article title. Not on the talk page, nor in its history. At the very least, I suggest moving the article to Treaty establishing a constitution for Europe, 2004, on the same format as the numerous Treaty of Londons. A redirect from the current location would be appropriate. — David Remahl 14:29, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• As I just wrote at the talk page the previously excellent structure has been destroyed in recent edits - the TOC is now huge. Would support if it was put back to how it used to be which was much more readable and sensible, imo. violet/riga (t) 15:33, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Sarajevo

Self nomination. I have been working on this article for quite some time now and would like for it to be a featured article. Plenty of information, numerous pictures, under 32kb. I'm sure any objections can be easily resolved. Asim Led 00:38, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• Support, this is much improved. Great work. Though one thing, in the history section what is "Drina banovina"? That needs to be explained. Also I should disclose that I have done a number of minor edits on this page in the past. - Taxman 03:56, Oct 30, 2004 (UTC)
  • Yes, thanks for your help in shaping the article. Regarding Drinska banovina, ive turned it into a link, created a stub, and added a brief explanation. Asim Led 04:10, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support ZayZayEM 04:18, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support. A lot of work has gone into this article and Asim's baby :) looks like it would make an FA. Some native English speakers could probably proofread it, and the number of sections could possibly be reduced further, but overall it's worth considering. --Joy [shallot] 10:24, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support. Just spotted a minor typo... -- Arwel 10:35, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Absolute support. This is the benchmark for an article on a city. Ambi 10:37, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Minor object. I think this article needs a map of where Sarajevo is located (perhaps the CIA map from the BH article, perhaps a better one). Also, the references (I changed the title from sources) used have only information about a small part of the topic, so more sources must have been used. I would also very much like to see at least one book mentioned, if only as "further reading". Jeronimo 11:30, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • A map of the greater Sarajevo area within Bosnia has been added to the "Geography and Climate" section. More sources have also been added. Asim Led 17:25, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Support. Jeronimo 11:20, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• Support: Giano 13:16, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support. [[User:Neutrality|Neutrality (hopefully!)]] 22:31, Oct 30, 2004 (UTC) Object until sources are added. Great article. [[User:Neutrality|Neutrality (hopefully!)]] 14:26, Oct 30, 2004 (UTC)
  • Sourcas have just been added. Asim Led 17:25, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support, but the Culture section could benefit from a critical pruning. A lot of odd stuff is mashed in there, like a New Jersey jam band and lip service to local rock bands. After the dignified, empirical, and comprehensive previous sections, this one looks much more like a holding pen for whatever anyone has thought up. That's not an objection, but it is a sincere disappointment after all that had come before. Geogre 17:49, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • I've created a "Main Article" for the culture section and placed the previous version there. Then I trimmed it down so its as long as the sections before. I hope you find it better now.Asim Led 20:37, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Indeed, it's much cleaner now, and the quality of that section no longer seems mismatched to the rest. Geogre 04:29, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• The first photo (the city at night) is copyrighted and does not include permission for third party use - is that compatable with the wikipedia license? Joe D (t) 22:19, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • All such images have now been replaced. Asim Led 03:28, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)
• Strong Support, probably the best article on any City that we have. GeneralPatton 22:24, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support --[[User:OldakQuill|Oldak Quill]] 13:21, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Object. The first image of Sarajevo at night may not be used by third-parties; that is even worse than non-commercial use only images. Johnleemk | Talk 13:26, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • All such images have now been replaced. Asim Led 18:09, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)
    • I still have my doubts about one particular image of a flag/seal, though. Neutral for now. Johnleemk | Talk 05:27, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Pepsi can stove

Spare and sweet. Colorful 3-D rendering leaves nothing to the imagination. Top link in the references shows you exactly how to make one. +sj+ 00:09, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• Minor objction. How did it came to be called "Pepsi can stove"? Why wasn't it called simply "soda can stove"? Revth 02:28, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • The requested article link was "Pepsi can stove", i didn't think about a better name but maybe should have. FWIW Google shows 1130 hits for "Pepsi can stove" (with quotes) and 594 for "soda can stove". Duk 03:00, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Yup, I checked myself and "Pepsi can stove" is the popular name and couldn't find out why that name stuck. It's most likely that no one knows. Support. Revth 15:22, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Objection 1) There is no mention of the commercially available stoves that are almost identical in design such as the Trangia. 2) Was the Pepsi stove a copy of the commercial designs, and when was it invented/adapted. Martyman 03:07, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Object. Good article, but far too short to be featured. Ambi 10:39, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Disagree with the objection (i) No subject is unfit for featured status. If the article's short because there's not much of interest to be said, then so bit it. It can still be a good short article. (ii) Reason is not in itself actionable. jguk 13:39, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)
    • I didn't say the subject was unfit for featured status. It is. The article, however, is just simply not detailed enough to be a featured article. If this were accepted as present, it would be by far the shortest featured article we have. With that in mind, I believe it's an entirely fair objection, and one that should be actionable. Ambi 13:53, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)
      • Say what it's missing. That's actionable. Just saying it's short, isn't.jguk 13:57, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)
        • I don't know. Cultural references? Other designs? Potential uses? Surely more can be said than simply how to make one and how to then use it. I'm not an expert on the topic. But if this were to be featured, it would set a really terrible precedent, because up until now, nothing this short has been featured - and any old ones that were this short have since been weeded out. Ambi 14:04, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)
          • As a further example, the history section is terrible, and Securiger gives further examples of ways this could be expanded below. As there are ways of expanding this, there is then no excuse for having such a short article. Ambi 11:22, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support Nice concise well-written article. jguk 13:57, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support. Fascinating, well written article frittered away a whole afternoon for me! - although it is much imporved by the new history section. BTW, some of the external links indicate that there are numerous other designs around. Ideally the article would mention the number of designs, compare top models, and perhaps trace when it became popular for hikers to experiment with them. But that's a heck of a lot of work and I wouldn't withhold my vote waiting for it. Securiger 05:20, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support Wow.--Josiah 06:00, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Object, incomplete. Even the links there provide a fair amount of material that is not covered in the article. Specifically (but not limited to) burn time of fuel, ie how much less efficient is it? More details on the construction. I didn't really get an idea of how it worked until I read the external links. Variations on the construction. Is JB weld the only option for building the stove? One of the links refers to foil tape. I could go on, but I only looked at a couple of the external links and found all this. - Taxman 14:31, Oct 31, 2004 (UTC)

Old Swiss Confederacy

Wow. Extensive, detailed content; great use of some beautiful images/maps from de: and fr:; highly wikified content; excellent use of a timeline -- could use better references and footnoting, but otherwise a model article. +sj+ 23:42, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• Great material, but the intro basically requires someone already knowing a lot of background material. Also there are several one sentence paragraphs throughout. Those need to be expanded, merged, or removed. Finally, the references and citation wouldn't just be nice, they are needed. The literature links don't even seem to be claimed to have been used as references. At least a couple English references are needed I would think. - Taxman 23:56, Oct 29, 2004 (UTC)
  • • I've merged the one-sentence paragraphs in the "Consolidation" section. Lupo 08:04, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)
    • As to the intro: (1) It is a brief summary of the rest of the article. As such, it glosses over many, many details, and much of the background: it's an abstract. (2) The article is part of a series. Some of the earlier events are covered in Early history of Switzerland (which still needs expansion...). What background info were you missing? Lupo 08:04, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)
      • See Wikipedia:Lead section for what the lead section should do. Being part of a series is not an excuse for me having to read the other articles in the series or having to click each linked article to know what this one is about. All necessary material to understand the topic should be included inline. For example "...part of the Eidgenossenschaft, whatever that is". And what is a canton? Also, the intro doesn't need to tell that it is part of an article series, that is nonstandard, but it does need to tell what the Old Swiss Confederacy is. What was significant about it, what made it a definable period in Swiss history? What were its primary characteristics? - Taxman 14:44, Oct 31, 2004 (UTC)
        • I beg to differ. Wikipedia:Lead section clearly says that "the lead should briefly summarize the article", which is what this article's lead section does. I have now added very brief descriptions for "Eidgenossenschaft", "canton", and "reichsfrei" (if someone knows an English term for the latter, all the better), but I don't think much more should be done. And yes, I do think that it doesn't hurt to state in the intro that this article is part of a series. It makes the reader aware that earlier and later events are covered elsewhere. I have improved the intro a little by explicitly stating that the distinguishing characteristic of that period was the continued struggle for independence against the Habsburgs. Lupo 19:41, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Yes, the lack of refs is a real bother. I left a note on the talk page...
    • I've added two references in English and left a comment on Talk:Old Swiss Confederacy. Lupo 07:49, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)
      • Ok, those are fine for me. But the books in the literature section that were used as actual reference should probably be noted as such under a 'references' section, and the others left under a further reading section. - Taxman 14:44, Oct 31, 2004 (UTC)
        • Why not. Done. Lupo 19:41, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support, it's an impressive article. The English and spelling needed work in places, but I think I fixed most of the problems; I was a little hesitant to work on a few areas, though, where I wasn't entirely sure of the meaning. Everyking 20:42, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • If there were areas where the meaning wasn't clear enough, we should try to improve those areas. What were they? Lupo 07:46, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Economy of Africa

An outgrowth of recent efforts to unbias our fair 'pedia, and a sexy effort by SimonP and ChrisG. This is a particular milestone since there are no other continents with "Economy of" articles to use as a guideline (see Economy of Europe and Economy of Australia if you must). --+sj+ 23:13, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• Yes, I know the nomination was clobbered [1], but this was just recently nominated and there are objections that have not been addressed at all. Specifically the sentence in the intro "Improving Africa's economy as it emerges from the aftereffects of colonialism and it struggles with democracy, welfare and quality of life is one of the most important issues facing the modern world." Even though many may agree with that, it is an unnacceptable POV for a featured article. It needs to be re written so it is more factual. - Taxman 23:49, Oct 29, 2004 (UTC)

Support. Tuf-Kat 23:51, Oct 29, 2004 (UTC)

• Ah - I thought this was nominated recently, but I couldn't see it in the achive of promoted articles or of rejected ones... This was overwritten by another section (that old chestnut again). What it said was:

[that was me, by the way -- ALoan (Talk) 00:00, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)]

---

A thorough, well-written, all-around excellent article on an interesting and important topic. —No-One Jones ^(m) 00:43, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• Strong support. Fredrik | talk 08:46, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Absolute support. Best article of the year. Ambi 08:50, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support. Filiocht 09:05, Oct 22, 2004 (UTC)
• Support - Xed 09:33, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support - Simon has already implemented my suggested changes. ✏ Sverdrup 10:05, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Important and excellent. ChrisG 11:31, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Oppose. The information is good, but the article is sorely in need of an editor. I may lend a hand if I have time. Someone correctly pointed out on the talk page that African_gdp_growth.png is almost illegible to anyone with red–green colour blindness. The burgundy and the dark olive green in particular will look almost the same to about 8% of males. I suggest changing either the reds or the greens to blues. Incidentally, the first map on the page, the one done entirely in greens, is very easy to read, irrespective of colour blindness. Shorne 12:08, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)

  What kind of editing do you think it needs? —No-One Jones ^(m) 12:16, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)

  • Just now I edited the introductory paragraph. Check the revision history for my changes. I can also point out the bizarre sentence "Africa's economy is more reliant on agriculture than that of any other continent with a majority of Africans still working the soil", which, for want of a comma, means something rather different from what was intended. I'll support this nomination once the English is cleaned up. Shorne 12:24, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)
    • I've done a fair bit of copyediting and linkage. How does it look now? —No-One Jones ^(m) 13:34, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)
      • I've done some more editing myself. More could be done, but I'll withdraw the objection. I have another one, however, about one of the maps. See above. Shorne 19:28, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Wow... Definite support, this is an excellent piece of work! Zerbey 14:06, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Object. Great material. I see at least two issues: 1.) The sentence in the intro "Improving Africa's economy as it emerges from a period of colonialism and struggles with democracy, welfare and quality of life is one of the most important issues facing the modern world.", while many may agree with, is an unnacceptable POV for a wikipedia article. It either needs to be cited to a source that said it, or turned into a factual statement, not a value judgement. 2.) The Geography section needs some work. The second paragraph has redundant sentences in it. I would have fixed that except for the problem is not only geographic it is political. It is the fact that the interior countries are landlocked that cause the problem, not the geography alone. The end of the third paragraph is a POV mess. That is one explanation, but is not neccessarily correct. Wikipedia can't state things like that as fact without citation. That is all the farther I got, but I assume similar issues happen later in the article. So unfortunately object for now. - Taxman 15:47, Oct 22, 2004 (UTC)
• Strong support. Simon A. 20:59, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support. This is mostly my article, and seeing as I made it my entry in Danny's contest I am quite pleased with it. Many thanks to everyone who has since edited and improved it. I am aware the article is not perfect. I am concerned that it gives short shrift to many subjects, but I think this is unavoidable with such a massive subject matter. I would also prefer more numbers and statistics, but accurate numbers are very difficult to find. I would also like to have the colour blind be able to read the maps, but I do not know much about how best this can be done. - SimonP 03:25, Oct 23, 2004 (UTC)
• Oppose, for lack of certain informations. The history section has several problems, no information before tenth century and a very limited informations on slavery. "This region became quite prosperous as Swahili traders exported ivory and slaves to a trade that spanned the entire Indian Ocean region." is the only sentence to mention slavery at all and this make it look like only Swahili was involved or that it had only a small effect in Africa. The agriculture section lacks informations on cattles which is very important in the central Africa. The Disease section has informations on AIDS and malaria but not on any other disease that have been controlled like small pox. Half of the Language issues section is about education and there is no independent section on it. I cannot figure out why the picture "Tamale in linguistically diverse Ghana" is a meaningful one. The only linguistic thing about the picture is a "TOYOTA" on the back of a truck. Something like a picture of a ballot with multiple languages on it, like the one you see in an Indian election, would be better. Revth 03:57, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • I would love to implement the above suggestions, but the article is already longer that is officially allowed. At this point adding anything substantial would entail cutting elsewhere, so I personally think more detailed information is better suited to subpages like economic history of Africa, or agriculture in Africa. - SimonP 09:02, Oct 23, 2004 (UTC)
    • Then what the article needs is to be written more in Wikipedia:Summary style. The article should cover all of the most important facets of the subject, but not in too much detail, and the sections that are too long need to be summarized to make room for other topics that need coverage. The detailed coverage then gets moved to the subarticle or the main article on the topic. - Taxman 23:40, Oct 26, 2004 (UTC)
      • If someone had written these additional articles then summary style would make sense. But they haven't been written and so this is a unfair suggestion, what makes this article excellent is it successfully describes the key issues in one article.  :ChrisG 18:22, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
        • No, no, you're missing the concept. In summary style this article wouldn't depend on the main articles on each subtopic, just what is summarized in this article. That is the only way to cover everything properly, with every single important topic covered and none so long that you have to leave out important stuff to fit in the size limit. Anything too long needs to be moved out and summarized, but primarily to improve this article, not specifically to improve the subarticle. - Taxman 02:58, Oct 28, 2004 (UTC)
      • No I'm not missing the concept. From my perspective, the article is covers the subject matter in a comprehensive manner. In dealing with the important facets it obviously cannot cover every detail. If you use this article in its present state to create a main article with child articles, you will replace one great article with four or five average ones.  :ChrisG 10:24, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• • Agree with Revth. This is a good article, but to be a good featured, it needs sub-articles. With no mention of Axumite Kingdom (just to name one historical empire), the history section is definetly incomplete. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 00:52, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)
    • But that would involve placing far too much detail into this article. It's unfair to object to this one because another article (Economic history of Africa doesn't yet exist. Ambi 04:37, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)
      • Some topics need long articles to be good, or division into subarticles. Economy of a continent is a very ambitious project. While the work done on the article so far is amazing and would be many times enough for some other featured articles (like the recently featured infinite monkey theorem, it is not yet enough for Economy of Africa. And ATM this article is already 40k long, it needs to be split into smaller sections anyway. I recommend Warsaw Uprising as an example on how a long article was split into subarticles. I will expand the history section a little with my knowledge, but the section about early history (before Europeans) needs serious work and my objections still stand. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 12:21, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)
      • But the "main article" for the section is blank. This implies there's more information, and is at the very least, misleading. 219.95.164.146 15:02, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)
        • Removed link to non-existent article :ChrisG 18:22, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Sentences about slavery was added, so now a minor object. Revth 02:19, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support. Great article. I think Revth's concerns can be addressed in seperate articles, ie: History of the Economy of Africa, or something like that, etc. func(talk) 21:01, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support unequivocally. Lisiate 23:12, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support. -- ALoan (Talk) 11:05, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)

---

John Vanbrugh

This was nominated recently and withdrawn at the request of the authors so they could finish polishing it. I think they are done, and the result is an absolute tour de force. I have done some minor copyediting, but calling it a self-nomination would be to take credit that I do not deserve. -- ALoan (Talk) 13:21, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• I concur. I'm in a similar boat. I urge voters to try http://www.google.com to see if anything on the Web compares to this! --Wetman 17:34, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support: Sets the bar higher than print. It's not just good; it's the best concise account of the man I've ever seen. (I did do some copy editing on the article when it was younger.) Geogre 18:06, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support, well researched and excellent writing. Zerbey 23:55, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Object At 45kb it's way, way too long. Wikipedia articles should aim to be under 32kb. Perhaps move some detail to subsidiary articles (see cricket for an example of a featured article where this is done). jguk 14:06, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)

The aim of this article has been to provide a full and comprehensive account of John Vanbrugh, to separate architecture and literature would be akin to writing an account of Dr. Jekyll without mentioning Mr. Hyde. Vanbrugh's architectural works have been confined to just 3 buildings, all three have to be summarised in order to explain clearly how Vanbrugh developed baroque; the drama section is hardly verbose, one can't just miss out a play because Wikipedia likes short pages. It would also be impossible to summarise his life without setting it against the historical and cultural background of his era. John Vanbrugh led a full life, hence he requires a full article. Wikipedia is an educational encyclopedia, not a book of potted biographies.Giano 14:58, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)

That doesn't mean it can't be organised like, say, Isaac Newton (in depth). jguk 07:18, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)

The content and layout and style of Isaac Newton is hotly discussed on its talk page. It is much longer than John Vanbrugh; and much of it not original but from the 1911 Encyclopedia Britannica, which was exactly what John Vanbrugh was, before Bishonen and I re-wrote it. That text dump type of thing is exactly what Wikipedia should be getting away from Giano 07:44, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I spent yesterday doing up a summarized section on the plays, and sub-articles to go with it, on the pattern of Cricket, but I haven't posted it at John Vanbrugh yet, because it seemed to destroy the integrity of the piece, no matter how much I tinkered with it. I decided in the end that a hierarchic or spider structure like that suits some subjects (Cricket) and not others (Vanbrugh), and we'd better just remove our article from FAC consideration, rather than put it on such a procrustean (?) bed (if I'm thinking of the right story there? Guy lops off hands and feet of guests, or stretches them, to make them fit the bed?). The Isaac Newton example is quite different, in fact I wish I'd hearad of it before. It sounds like a simple way of having the article remain linear (very much our preferred structure for it), and if I've understood it right, you merely have to "turn the page" (=click on "continue") halfway through it. Constructing the handmade TOC needed on the first page looks a bit of a nightmare, but heck, we can learn, or get help. We'll definitely look into this as soon as possible. Unfortunately both Giano and I are very busy today, but we'll be back. Thank you, jguk! Incidentally, the article clocks in at 40 or 41 right now, I saved a few kb by "transcluding" the timeline.--Bishonen 08:29, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)

• Support--Josiah 06:09, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support. I've been watching this article develop since its last listing and I think it is everything a good article should be. Filiocht 08:29, Nov 1, 2004 (UTC)

Battle of Leyte Gulf

Partial self nom - I've done a little work here (I wrote the battlebox and scanned some pics for it) but user:Gdr has written almost all of the prose himself. →Raul654 06:17, Oct 29, 2004 (UTC)

• Minor object. This is a good article, but I would like to see some small issues resolved. 1) The battle-box mentions the Battle of Leyte as the "battle before", while "Aftermath" writes that "the way was opened for the reconquest of Leyte by the land forces under the command of MacArthur, in the battle of Leyte". This seems contradictory, even though the Battle of Leyte article mentions 20 Oct 1944 as the begin date. 2) 50% of the aftermath section deals with critique on Halsey, rather than with the actual aftermath of the battle. I think a dicussion of the commander's handling is great, but this only discusses the non-dispatching of the TF, and not the battle in general, or the Japanese actions. 3) One of the references is "The Battle of Leyte Gulf: 23–26 October 1944", while the article has 24 and 25 October as the dates. This is not necessarily a problem, but it strikes me as odd. Jeronimo 11:33, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • (1) "Battle before" is strictly chronological. See Wikipedia:WikiProject Battles. Since the first landings of the battle of Leyte were on 1944-10-20 it comes before the battle of Leyte Gulf even though most of the fighting was afterwards. If this is a problem, it would be a good idea to discuss this at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Battles. I changed the wording of the "Aftermath" section to address this point. (2) I'm not sure what to do about this, other than to put the Halsey material in a subsection. Any suggestions? (3) I changed the dates in the battlebox. Gdr 14:36, 2004 Oct 29 (UTC)

I'm withdrawing my objection, although I'm not sure if 2) is resolved to my satisfaction. It's good enough for featured status either way. As for 1), I'll raise this point at the WikiProject site. I found the "previous/next battle" entry also problematic for another FAC, Battle of Jutland. Jeronimo 20:15, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• Minor objection. In "Battle of Surigao Strait", the arrival of Nishimura's force without the support from other forces is credited to the poor communication or the complex coordination. This is only partially true. It is also due to the radio silence enforced on actual striking forces. Except for Ozawa's decoy force, all other groupd operated under the complete radio silence. Also, the discription of "two battleships coverted to carriers (Hyuga and Ise)" needs somewhat more tweaking. It is misleading in a sense as both were still much closer to a battleship than a carrier after the conversion. Revth 12:42, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Good points. Now fixed, I hope. Gdr 14:36, 2004 Oct 29 (UTC)
  • Thanks and support. Revth 15:49, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support. I will leave others more knowledgeable than I to criticise the factual content, but a good article. -- ALoan (Talk) 14:53, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• Support: I learned a great deal. Geogre 21:12, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Bicycle

re-nom. this has now been fully overhauled, specifically re wikifying, captioning, and rewriting and annotating external links as suggested. still trying to stay a step ahead of the vandals. thanks. Sfahey 19:26, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• Do you happen to have the objections from the second nomination? I only found the first one in the archives ([2]), but I would like to review my objections. Jeronimo 21:27, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• yes, i wrote them down. the archived objections at the footnote were way before my time on the article. mine were mostly wiki errors. i'll look it up and send it to your home page.Sfahey 23:23, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• Support Fifelfoo 22:55, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Object. It needs a much better picture at the top. A good picture would show someone actually riding a bicycle, and preferably in a nice location. But it should show off the bicycle well too. Gdr 23:57, 2004 Oct 28 (UTC)
  • Sounds trifling. The article is "bicycle". There is a separate article, referred to in the "lead", called "bicycling".Sfahey 01:12, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)
    • I would have to agree. - Taxman 01:57, Oct 29, 2004 (UTC)
  • It's not a trifling objection. Bicycles are nothing if not a form of human transportation. But the lead picture doesn't show that. Surely Wikipedia's "very best work" needs to do better? I will see if I can take something, but the weather is not good at the moment where I live. Gdr 11:06, 2004 Oct 29 (UTC)
• Support, good luck with the vandals. Zerbey 01:31, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support: I do think the Performance section could use a little copy editing, but that's not an objection, just a desire. Geogre 01:51, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Great article, well reasearched, good pictures. One thing I noticed is the 'Performance' section, first paragraph has got to be missing some context. It says bikes are most efficient as a transportation machine and in terms of cargo transport, but compared to what? - Taxman 01:57, Oct 29, 2004 (UTC)
• Object --Sf 11:34, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC) still needs some tweaking (but is definitely starting to get there) have reservations about some of the phrasing
  • Further to this: There is a reference to European bicycles having "fenders" as a long standing European cyclist and (native English speaker) I have never heard of such devices in connection with bicycles.
    • "Fender" (American English) = "mudguard" (British English) Gdr 12:08, 2004 Oct 29 (UTC)
• Object. "Early in the Second World War, Japan used thousands of bicycles stolen from the native population in their Asian campaigns." is a POV. The proper word is "commandeer". Now, the writer also seems to be unaware that the second Guards Division tasked with the campaign on Singapore was armed with bicyles which was made into a wartime movie Ginrinbutai, lit. silver wheel group. To be completely a NPOV sentence, one needs to offer evidences on "thousands" claimed here as well. Revth 12:13, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • I support this objection the role of bicycle borne troops in taking Malaya and the siege of Singapore needs better treatment

--Sf 13:25, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• Object section on "conflict with automobiles" needs rethinking some of the language is POV eg use of the word "drivers" where the apparent reference is to "motorists" (both are considered to be drivers under the terms of the Vienna conventions on traffic - the use of the word "driver" to mean "motorists" is an affectation of the car lobby). Also this sentence "Bicycle engineer John Forester is one of many skeptics concerning the roots of these apparently bicycle-friendly developments". Not sure what this sentence means. For a treatment of the history of such matters see segregated cycle facilities. Perhaps what is meant is that he disputes the purpose of such devices. Section on Bicycle activism is also unclear/innaccurate. I am not clear how the sentence on "gentrification" applies or what concepts it is supposed to encapsulate. Many cycle activists have sought to prevent the application/construction of cycle lanes/ cycle tracks and the purposes for which they are being applied are matters of dispute.

--Sf 13:52, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• Object to this sentence: "In much of the western world however, bicycling's initial boom was short-lived, as people flocked to motorcars as soon as these became affordable." How much of the "Western" world? What is short lived? 40-50 years? 30-40 years? Perhaps the author means USA/Canada?

--Sf 14:15, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• Object, this sentence is to my knowledge inaccurate "Since the 1950s, when pedal driven coaster brakes predominated, cable-pull brakes have been the rule. These feature paired, padded calipers which are squeezed together onto the wheel rims by a cable pulled by the brake handles." For many decades the standard Irish/British country bicycle and I believe equivalent Chinese models used caliper brakes actuated by interlinked rods and levers. I am not aware that pedal driven brakes ever predominated in UK/Ireland/France/Asia. Was this a US phenomenon? --Sf 14:43, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• Object, section on Accessories "Lights are another option, ranging from generator-powered devices still common in Europe to the more powerful, battery-driven halogen lamps used more in North America". In most European jurisdictions, front and rear lights are not an option but are a legal requirement after dark. In France it is an offence to sell a bicycle not equiped with lights. A wikipedia article should at least reflect such key legal requirements (Front and rear reflectors themselves also being one, including in the USA). --Sf 14:43, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• Object, while I think of it in most Northern European jurisdictions a warning bell is also a legal requirement rather than an accessory. In addition, it is usually an offence to drive or control a pedal cycle that does not have functioning front and rear brakes. I suspect that similar requirements also obtain in Japan. --Sf 16:34, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Blackadder

Previously nominated in April 2004 [3] where there was very little response. Seems quite a good article to me. violet/riga (t) 22:27, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• Support. Object, but only slightly. 1) Needs references, 2) I noticed a few minor errors which I'll endeavor to fix tomorrow (it's 1am right now :-)). Zerbey 16:30, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Not sure if the author(s) of the article used them but the only possible references are mentioned in the Tie-ins and External links sections. Perhaps these could be rearranged and called references, but is it right to do that when they may not

actually have been used? violet/riga (t) 09:11, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• Support - this is excellent. I've had a tidy as well. My only caveat is length - currently 39k after I moved the list of characters to a separate article. Perhaps the episode lists should be moved to a separate article, or main articles written for each series and summarised here? -- ALoan (Talk) 14:08, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • A good point and a good idea. Doing that, however, would probably render the main article not feature-worthy. violet/riga (t) 15:27, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)
    • I'm not so sure (I've had a further tweak) - all I am suggesting is either (i) List of Blackadder episodes, to contain just the episode lists, or (ii) The Black Adder, Blackadder II, etc., as main articles, with decent summaries in Blackadder. The former may be sufficient. -- ALoan (Talk) 16:07, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support. Obviously this is the result of someone's cunning plan. Baldrick, is this your doing?!? --Modemac 14:14, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support. It's fuckin' ace. (also I've done loads on it - ha ha ha)--Crestville 19:48, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Tally-ho pip-pip and Bernard's your uncle. -- In English we say, "Support". That being said, I wouldn't mind an extra picture if that is available. I don't think the length is a real issue, BTW. Jeronimo 21:39, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Fine - I have supported anyway :) Are there many featured articles over 32k? Is the 32k limit only a rule of thumb, or is it still a real problem for some readers with some browsers? -- ALoan (Talk) 11:20, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support, this is an excellent article on one of the greatest TV comedies of all time. My only gripe would be that the spoiler warning should really be before going into detail of what happens in each episode of the series, not half way down the article. As hard as it is to believe, there are people who haven't already watched them dozens of times! Shane King 09:36, Oct 29, 2004 (UTC)
• Just spotting a failing - no mention of cunning plans outside of episode descriptions. I think that's an important enough aspect of the series to be mentioned in the overview. violet/riga (t) 20:52, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • The word cunning occurs four times in the overview, including "I've got a plan so cunning, you could put a tail on it and call it a weasel." Is this not sufficient, or does the phrase cunning plan have to be there too? -- ALoan (Talk) 22:09, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)
    • Though the word appears (three times in one quote and once in reference to Blackadder himself) I think the overview needs mention of Baldrick's attempts (and occasional successes!) to save the day with his cunning plans, it being an important part of many episodes over the series. violet/riga (t) 22:16, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support ZayZayEM 04:15, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Jonathan Wild

Self nomination, and I promise not to argue with anyone who objects. While the approved A Tale of a Tub was the most comprehensive article I've written on Wikipedia, I always thought Jonathan Wild was the one that provided the best read and the most interesting text. Geogre 20:22, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• Support: riveting!--Bishonen 23:40, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support. Very interesting read. Zerbey 04:40, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support - minor quibble - does "his testimony was in connection with his criminal conspiracy" - presuambly this refers to Hitchens personally knowing 2000 professional thieves in London? If so, this is not entirely clear (to me at least - still being dense today). Object for now - this is an excellent read and I want to support; unfortunately, however, I have a few nit-picky points: (i) Section 2 says "Hitchens, the city's top policeman, would himself end at the gallows, and his testimony was in connection with his criminal conspiracy" (emphasis added) - perhaps I am being dense today, but what does the emphasised bit here mean?; (ii) there is some repetition in sections 2 and 3 ("Wild had an ingenious method. He ran a gang of thieves...", "Jonathan Wild's unique scheme was to operate a gang..."; (iii) the text is very light on wikilinks - playwrights, 1720s, corruption, apprentice, Mohocks, and many others could all be usefully wikilinked (of course, some may think the minimal linking an advantage...); (iv) section 4 ends "(see the reproduction of the gallows ticket, left)" - first, left-alignment is (in my experience) usually deprecated for layout, second, in my browser it is mainly above not left: I think the reference is unhelpful; (v) Wiki-style is to avoid headings starting "The" and Unnecessary Capitals In Headings; (vi) the references are outstandingly good, but I am surprised there are no "external links" or "see also"s. -- ALoan (Talk) 14:46, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC) -- ALoan (Talk) 11:45, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Response: I will make the changes. Indeed, this morning I noticed the repetition in the text and resolved to change it. In pieces, then: i) I didn't want to go too far in this and digress onto Hitchens too much, but Howson reveals that Hitchens took bribes from thieves and was indicted (and hung) for essentially being corrupt, so the "criminal conspiracy" was somewhat literal: he was conspiring with his thieves; ii) Agreed, absolutely and will be corrected; iii) Will correct, and I even thought about researching and writing about the Mohocks, who made a stink at the time but are a relative footnote; iv) I wanted to vary the layout somewhat to prevent a sort of gallery running on one margin, but I will correct the textual reference; is left-alignment sufficient for objection, or would it be ok with just a correct reference? I'm not in love with left align and only wanted to vary a bit; v) Did know know, will change, as I was under the reverse impression; vi) See also is possible, though I tend to think that the wikilinks function that way and personally don't do them. As for external links, it's remarkable because, in fact, Wild is just flat out under-represented in his own right. It's surprising. Every 18th c. scholar knows about him, but Gerald Howson remains the only biographer who doesn't fictionalize. He's a really difficult figure for research, being a criminal and probably the beneficiary of a cover-up by Walpole (Howson talks about court records that are complete except for Wild's statement, etc.). The problem is that Howson is pretty much it, so all external links are either going to be about Defoe or Fielding or derived from Howson or Defoe. I can probably find an e-text of Defoe's life of Wild. I'll see what I can do. (The best see-also is Jack Sheppard, probably.) Geogre 16:55, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Changes made. I hope the objections have been answered. Geogre 17:38, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I'll check. The "see also" is not really for things that are already linked (rule of thumb is that other articles should only have wikilink per page) but really for tangentially relevant things that are not specifically mentioned (say [tries to think of a good example ... erm ...] Gallows humour). -- ALoan (Talk) 17:48, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Second reply: To tell the truth, I honestly don't know more about Hitchens that I put up there. Howson has only the bare fact that Hitchens was indicted for taking bribes and that he was hung. He wasn't hung for knowing the thieves, but for letting them out of jail for pay. Hitchens was trying to say, in his defence, that it was impossible to hold all the thieves: there were too many. You had to let some out to get some in, and greasing palms was common. In fact, Howson makes a great case for that being true, although he also talks about one method they had for relieving overcrowding: death. Lots of prisoners died of starvation and disease while in jail. It's a very frightening read. (See also! Just thought of one! See also The Mint.) Geogre 18:11, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• Support. An interesting read, too. Jeronimo 21:32, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support. Gdr 11:25, 2004 Oct 29 (UTC)
• Support ZayZayEM 04:11, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support. Really interesting., I have never seen anything about him before. Geogre should extend this by a few thousand words and publish it as a book. he would make a fortune Giano 10:49, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support. New nothinh about this person but now I feel I know all I need. And I enjoyed reading it. Filiocht 08:23, Nov 1, 2004 (UTC)

H.D.

Self nom. Picked this article up as part of Wikipedia:WikiProject Countering systemic bias. Our article on this key figure in 20th century English-language poetry was not much more than a stub when I started working on it, but now it is one of the better articles on women writers that we have, IMHO. Filiocht 11:45, Oct 27, 2004 (UTC)

• Support: Looks pretty good. I did a little copy editing. I have my own views (feminists and specifically lesbian feminists have distorted HD to meet their own template to make her a "good queer" and a "good feminist"), but it's a representative survey of views and a comprehensive view of the poet. My only suggestion (not objection) is that Imagism be reiterated to some degree here. It's vital to the reader to know what Imagism was, since HD invented it more than Pound did and stayed true to it longer than he did. Inasmuch as she alone among the major poets kept slugging in that vein, it's reasonable to assume that an educated reader doesn't know it well. Also, I rather suspect the Imagism Detractors. It either shouldn't be there, or it should be played out more fully. There were plenty of folks who thought it was nonsense and quite a few (Edmund Wilson and Yvor Winters) who thought the entire raiding from the East of the Pound-group was misguided and useless ("a barbarian in a museum"). The superficial criticism that the poems are too short is almost a parody, and its appearance in The Egoist makes me wonder. Geogre 13:26, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • The criticism quoted was specifically of H.D.'s early poems, not of imagism itself. While I agree that the reader may want more background on Imagism, I think the material is best left in the article on the movement. Now the thing is to improve that article! Filiocht 14:08, Oct 27, 2004 (UTC)
• Support. Zerbey 04:41, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Bravo. Brilliant, as always. Ambi 08:49, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support. Mpolo 14:54, Oct 28, 2004 (UTC)
• Support, excellent article.--Bishonen 17:53, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support. Minor point: could you add one or two adjectives to the word Imagist in the lead section? That would establish context and make the lead section more accessible to laymen. Not everybody knows the Imagists. BTW, interesting to note that H.D. had an affair with D.H. (Lawrence). Jeronimo 21:36, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Done. Her thing with D.H. may have been platonic, but yes, it's a neat symmetry. Filiocht 09:45, Nov 1, 2004 (UTC)
• Support ZayZayEM 04:08, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• Support, of course. Markalexander100 00:41, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Gunpowder Plot

or alternatively Guy Fawkes Both self nominations; one or other of these would be nice for the week of November 5th (or maybe just even for the day!) and it would be really outstanding if these could be in really good shape for the 400th anniversary of the Gunpowder Plot next year. Sjc 08:39, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• Object (for now) - at present there are two medium length and scope articles, neither of which seem to me to be sufficiently comprehensive to be Featured. Most of the information in Guy Fawkes seems (hardly surprisingly) to be about Guy Fawkes' involvement in the Gunpowder Plot rather than about Guy Fawkes, the person. I would suggest that most of the information about the Plot in Fawkes should be moved to and intergrated into Gunpowder Plot. When that is done, I may be able to support. We certainly ought to have something for 5 November 2005.-- ALoan (Talk) 11:14, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Object. 1) The information in the Guy Fawkes article needs to be merged into the Gunpowder Plot article and vice versa to make them consistent. 2) Next, the Guy Fawkes article needs to be expanded to give more information about the man. 3) The Gunpowder Plot article is a little short, can we go into more detail on the political background? 4) Who was responsible for the trial and eventual execution of the plotters? (surely Thomas Knyvet is not the only person involved in this?) 5) The article briefly mentions a "what if the plot had succeeded " scenario, can we go into more detail? 6) No references. 7) I declare "contemporaneously" as the word of the day. Zerbey 13:37, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)

In case anyone is interested: The history section of BBC Online has a page that mentions several other people involved in the conspiracy. [[User:MacGyverMagic|Mgm|^(talk)]] 19:54, Oct 27, 2004 (UTC)

• Object for the present, but I would be very happy to support this well-written and interesting article if most of Guy Fawkes were merged into it and references provided (avoid saying "many modern historians think", please specify).--Bishonen 21:07, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• Object: I don't mean to be mean, but the article seems stitched together, and we see one of the problems of Wiki-production: the opening section is scholarly and complete, referring to the other plots and the motivations. Then, though, it gets tacked on stuff that's like a tin can tied to a cat's tail. We have Modern Theories that provides only a single sentence. The Aftermath section is far from enough (yes, I will try to sofixit as best I can), as the plot resulted not just in delaying Catholic "emancipation" (odd word) but actually justified a raft of new anti-Catholic legislation that would stay in force through to 1842. Then we get Macbeth tied to a single graphic novel and a link to that alternate history? It's a radical mismatch. The external links and references are stunted. Again, I apologize if it looks like I'm unloading, but it's the second half of the article that seriously disappoints. Geogre 00:45, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Addendum: "Some scholars" argue that Macbeth is from the increased interest in evil. Who are these scholars? Also, what has that to do with this? James I of England had written a book on demonology and witchcraft, and he was known to believe that witches and demons and the devil trying to snare him. Since Shakespeare wrote for the court, a witch play makes perfect sense, especially one set in Scotland, where James was from. The connection to the Gunpowder plot is extremely weak on that basis, and, since Shakespeare was likely a Roman Catholic, I can't see his doing anything to fan the flames of the anti-Catholic mood. In fact, witch trials have a big spike in England during James I's reign, and it's reasonable to think that the people performing such trials were trying to rise politically by appealing to the King's own beliefs. As soon as James I was off the throne, witch trials fall precipitously. Geogre 13:03, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• I take on board the objections and I think I agree with 99.99% of what has been said. I will rephase this and get these two moved into the category of articles for improvement. I was really putting these up as a straw man to see if I could capture what the substantive objections were likely to be since my real goal with this is to get something really good for the 400th anniversary next year. Thankyou for your opinions, they will help us get this in good shape. Sjc 07:03, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Pascal's Wager

A clear, precise description of a philosophical argument, accompanied by various criticisms and interesting wiki links. I have not worked on this article. P3d0

• Qualified support. Besides it lacking a picture, I'd like to see support/references for the statement "dismisses research suggesting there might be medical or socio-cultural benefits of belief and prayer." Psychobabble
  • My understanding is that pictures are not necessary for featured articles; only for the article of the day. Please correct me if I'm wrong. P3d0
    • What is a featured article: include images (pictures, maps and diagrams, with good captions) where appropriate. I'm not sure that it needs anything more than the existing image of Blaise Pascal. -- ALoan (Talk) 13:24, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
      • Right, so featured articles only need images as appropriate while front-page articles always need them. P3d0
• Object. This seem to have been shorn of its historical context. (1) What work did Pascal described the wager in? How did he phrase it? (2) How was the argument received at the time? Did anyone really think it was persuasive? (3) How did Voltaire criticize the wager? Can you quote him? (4) Who made which criticism? (5) Have famous philosophers and apologists commented on the wager? What did they say? Gdr 02:54, 2004 Oct 27 (UTC)
• Neutral for now, but it needs an explanation of Variations of this argument can be found in other religious philosophies, such as Hinduism. Tuf-Kat 02:59, Oct 27, 2004 (UTC)
• Object: all the above reasons, plus more on the religious context in which Pascal was working and, crucially, references please. Filiocht 08:58, Oct 27, 2004 (UTC)
• Neutral: Pascal was a Jansenist, so he was personally quite, quite radical. I had always thought he created the "wager" as a near-joke. He was merely making a point that narrow self-interest indicated theism, not arguing that that was/is a valid basis for faith. My problem is that this one philosophical argument is blown out of proportion only because it seems to be difficult for empiricists to refute. Geogre 13:31, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Support provisional on references: References would be good, but web references would be enough, really, as I don't think the summaries are particularly POV or out on a limb. Support after more external references are added. Otherwise, it's a pretty fair presentation of something that people take far too seriously. Oh, a pointer to an e-text of Pensees would be a good thing, too. Geogre 00:52, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• Object. no references. Only a single external link that is of a one sided POV. Get some references, print preferably. They will likely help add valuable material anyway. Also, I agree with much of the above. - Taxman 14:53, Oct 27, 2004 (UTC)
• Object. The lead section fails to mention that the argument is fallacious. -- Emsworth 19:50, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Conditional support, except for the dubious claim of scientific validation of the effects of prayer. Ejrrjs 14:26, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Object. This is a big deal in religious philosophy, and it should include references and notes about the many philosophers who do and have issued and countered these criticisms. In other words: it's not nearly complete. I also believe some of the details are wrong. Maybe I'll put some work into this, because it certainly deserves it. Cool Hand Luke 08:55, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Marginated Tortoise

This is a translation of a German article, apparantly written by an expert. I found it to be very interesting and informative with clear prose. I have not worked on this article in any way. Eudyptes 00:47, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• Basically support, though it could use a copyedit as there are some clumsy wordings, probably relics of the translation. Tuf-Kat 02:57, Oct 27, 2004 (UTC)
  • I have given the article a moderate copy-editing. I hope this helps. Eudyptes 03:39, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support, but I'm the translator, so may not count. Mpolo 18:50, Oct 27, 2004 (UTC)
• Object. Good article, perhaps somewhat over-illustrated, but I have two (minor) objections: 1) I find it hard to believe that you only used a single reference from 1789. Even if you did, it would be good to add at least more recent word as a "further reading". 2) The units in the article (m, degrees Celsius etc.) should be linked. Jeronimo 21:43, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • I translated from the German Wikipedia, as I said above, so for me, that was the actual "reference". I think that the Weblink is the primary reference for the article (but it's blocked by my proxy at work, so I can't check it to get more info). The units were linked until User:Neutrality unlinked them... Do we have a standard here? Mpolo 06:54, Oct 29, 2004 (UTC) -- I left a note for the article's author, but in the process saw that he is actually the author of one of the standard books on the subject. I will add this to the references section. Mpolo 07:09, Oct 29, 2004 (UTC)
    • The original German author, Richard Mayer, appears to be the person who identified and named the subspecies Testudo marginata sarda. I doubt he needed many references. However, if you check is user page it looks like he has also written a book on European tortoises, which might be good for further reading if you are good with German. -- Solipsist 07:19, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)
      • I believe the standard is to wikilink the first mention of each unit. I can't see it in Wikipedia:Manual of Style (dates and numbers), but I'm sure I've seen it somewhere else... -- ALoan (Talk) 11:15, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)
        • I linked the units (first use only) and added some "Further Reading" in English, along with two web pages in English and Richard Mayer's book. Hopefully this addresses the objections. Mpolo 12:25, Oct 29, 2004 (UTC)
          • User:Neutrality reverted the unit links again, citing that they "look ugly" in the text. [for numbers, weights, and measures] would seem to support not wikilinking, or only wikilinking the "orders of magnitude" page (which I haven't seen done very often, personally). As this has now become a policy debate, might I suggest that you retract the objection on unit linking, we discuss the policy over at Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style_(dates_and_numbers), and I promise to update the article to whatever is decided afterwards? Mpolo 07:26, Oct 30, 2004 (UTC)
  • I remember somebody else asked me to link units of measurement for a nomination here of my own, and I thought is was policy, and one I would agree with, since this encyclopedia is read by Americans who may not know metric units (and the other way round). As this is apparently not policy, I'll not object over it. Jeronimo 11:21, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support - Extremely good article with minor clumsiness in wordings -- Sundar 07:05, Oct 29, 2004 (UTC)
• Support ZayZayEM 04:01, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Prime Minister of the United Kingdom

-- Emsworth 22:57, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• Support. Zerbey 01:26, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support. I think the article ought to say something about the controversy of 1974. (Labour won a plurality of seats but Heath did not resign immediately; see United Kingdom general elections) Gdr 03:05, 2004 Oct 27 (UTC)
  • Addressed. -- Emsworth 22:07, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Object. Lead section too long. Page is 39kb so List of PMs should probably be split off. PoliticsUK should be made a footer and a relevant image be moved to the top.--Jiang 03:14, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • A while back, PoliticsUK was in fact made a footer; but there were objections (from me, inter alia) and it was returned. Both this issue and the length of the lead section have been a topic of discussion on the talk page, Jiang; please give us some more detailed advice there! Doops 04:02, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
    • I'm just trying to enforce some standards here. This article has to follow established standards and conventions to become featured. There is no argument against spitting off the list. As for the lead section, fluff like Tony Blair's full name and the "sucesses of his Labour Party in the 2001 election" are not relevant since this is an article on the institution. If it's not introductory, it does not belong. --Jiang 04:19, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
      • I've removed the "fluff" (I'm not sure that's really the best word for it, but whatever) about the 2001 election. But we've trimmed the intro considerably over the last few days and I wonder what's left to cut. (As far as the list of prime ministers and Tony's full name/titles are concerned, I happen to agree with you, Jiang.) Doops 04:47, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • I split off list of PMs to List of Prime Ministers of the United Kingdom. HTH, Whosyourjudas (talk) 04:34, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Object. Inconsistent wikification of names. Georges I and III are wikified, but II is missing. Fifelfoo 07:58, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC) Support. Fifelfoo 23:14, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Addressed. -- Emsworth 19:18, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Object for now: the lead section is far too long. Filiocht 08:34, Oct 27, 2004 (UTC)
  • Addressed. -- Emsworth 22:07, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support. However there is some duplication (the Prec and Priv section has much that has already been said) that could be addressed -- William M. Connolley 08:55, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC).
  • The section in question, I think, does not duplicate when it comes to precedence—it applies not only to precedence in England and Wales, but also to precedence to Scotland and Northern Ireland, which are not covered in the rest of the article. -- Emsworth 22:09, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support -- ALoan (Talk) 09:40, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC) Object for now - lead section is too long, but the information can be incorporated or repetition reduced; no reference to Prime Minister's Questions; nothing about Spencer Perceval, the only PM to be assassinated; nothing about First Ministers in Scotland and Wales; seemingly no link to prime minister. -- ALoan (Talk) 11:36, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • All addressed. -- Emsworth 19:52, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• I have addressed the lead section objections (which I incidentally do not agree with, but will comply with anyway). Some of the information which is to be found elsewhere has been removed from the lead, including that about current controversies (sorry, Doops). -- Emsworth 19:29, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • It still has a very full three-paragraph lead: although it was all good stuff, the previous lead of four long paragraphs was just excessive (according to lead section, the lead is meant to be a brief summary with at most 3 paragraphs). But much better now. Excellent. -- ALoan (Talk) 09:40, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Eifel aqueduct

This is a translation (by me) of a German featured article (though the lead was rewritten to fit with EN standards, and some English books and websites on the subject were added to the references section). A week on Peer Review produced only the comment on the references, which has been addressed, hopefully. Mpolo 19:24, Oct 26, 2004 (UTC)

• Support. I liked it on peer review and I like it more now that the English further reading has been added. - Taxman 19:39, Oct 26, 2004 (UTC)
• Support. Tuf-Kat 20:03, Oct 26, 2004 (UTC)
• Minor object, I'm afraid. The article is excellent, but I think the map needs to be translated into English. After all, this is the English Wikipedia (my German is fine, though). Jeronimo 20:06, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • I basically agree that the map should be translated, but my graphic editing skills are so meager, I ruin it every time I try. I'd be happy to provide someone with the translations, if they are able to do it... Mpolo 06:59, Oct 27, 2004 (UTC)
    • I've emailed the creator and requested that he sends me the source documents. With your help, I'll be able to translate it (if he is willing to license the source documents to me under the cc-by-sa or GFDL). — David Remahl 07:56, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
      • The creator has translated the map for us. Thanks, de:Benutzer:Sansculotte! Mpolo 08:26, Oct 29, 2004 (UTC)
  • Great! Support now. Jeronimo 08:56, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support. Zerbey 21:18, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support. Gdr 22:16, 2004 Oct 26 (UTC)
• Support. -- ALoan (Talk) 21:59, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support. The new translated map looks great! Revth 02:22, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support. Interesting article Martyman 03:12, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support. The things you learn. ZayZayEM 03:41, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band

This is the current album of the Featured Album Project. More than a dozen editors have worked on it in the past couple days to make it ready for nomination and in line with WikiProject Albums standards. Tuf-Kat 15:39, Oct 26, 2004 (UTC)

Oppose It just doesn't seem very well written at the moment. Don't mean to be harsh, but the language needs a lot of improvement. Immediate observations are:

1.'The album also launching what we know today as the Classic Rock radio format.' The sentence doesn't make sense. Do we know it as the Classic Rock radio format, or do just some Americans? (I've never heard of the term.) Why did this album launch that format and not other bands of the era?

Removed.

2.'is often called' Weasel words, who does the calling?

That's credited in the intro to Rolling Stone, and that is all that is need for the first paragraph. Others are mentioned elsewhere, such as in the section entitled "critical reception" and in the infobox.

Perhaps just quote Rolling Stone if the other critics aren't going to be named there.

There's no nice terse quotable phrase from the review that says it, unfortunately. It's really not necessary for the first paragraph. The goal of the intro is to get the most important facts across, and one of the most important facts is that Sgt. Pepper's is more critically acclaimed than most any other album, with Rolling Stone being given as an example. I don't think there's any need for a quote there -- if someone wants to know the details, there's a link to the review just a few inches down in the infobox.

3.'is sometimes described' These are weasel words.

Removed.

4.'titular song' What's wrong with 'title song'?

I think of a "title song" as applying specifically to the titular song of a movie or musical, not a song with the same title as the album it was released on. In any case, "titular song" is perfectly acceptable English.

Acceptable, but unusual. Titular in that sense is listed in dictionaries as the fourth meaning of the word. May be better to describe it as the "first" song anyway. "First" imparts information, "titular" or "title" are tautologous (anyone can see that a song called "Sgt Pepper" is the same as the album title:) )

The most precise word would be eponymous, I think, but that's a bit obscure for the intro. Reworded a bit: One song, "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band", appears twice in slightly modified forms at the beginning and end, giving an overall theme to the album.

5.', in slightly modified forms,' Don't need commas around this phrase.

Reworded.

6.'In addition, several songs are cross-faded into one another, or joined by sound effects and unusual transitional elements.' Unclear sentence. What does 'cross-faded' mean? What are 'unusual transitional elements'? Why 'several songs' (I thought it was the whole A side and the whole B side)?

Reworded, may be more clear now. I'm not sure which songs are cross-faded, but I don't think there's any pattern to it. Don't have a copy to check right now.

7.'The duplication of "Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band" was produced to create the illusion that the recording was a concert performance by the resident band of the aforementioned club, which was Paul McCartney's original idea for the record.' Unnecessary complicated sentence. No need for long words like 'duplication' and 'aforementioned'. 'Reprise' would be better than 'duplication', 'by a resident band' would be better than 'by the resident band of the aforementioned club'.

Second part reworded. First part not touched -- though long, duplication is a frequently used and commonly understood word. Reprise is shorter but less commonly used, and I think, less commonly understood. In addition, I believe a song can only be reprised if it is identical both times, though I could be wrong.

Could go with "repeated" (with rephrasing). The song is identified as "Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band (Reprise)" on the sleeve. And you're wrong, it doesn't have to be identical, it can be a shortened (and slightly modified) version of the original.

Changed to Repeating the first song at the end of the entire album helped establish the illusion that the recording

8.'The Beatles had grown tired of touring and had quit the road in late 1966, burned out after the dramas of the "Bigger than Jesus" controversy (with its resultant deaths threats and record burnings in the United States, due to the widespread disapproval of this message from the Beatles) and the tumultuous tour of the Phillipines which saw them virtually frog-marched out of the country at gunpoint.' Very long sentence of little relevance to the album.

Long sentence shorted, but of great relevance. It explains why they retired from touring during recording, and the importance of this is the point of the next paragraph.

9.'an effectively unlimited period'; 'virtually unlimited access' Don't know who used a thesaurus (badly) on this article, but it doesn't have many synonyms for 'unlimited'.

Reworded.

10.Still slightly unsure on this one, but changed enough for me to remove it. 'one of their greatest strengths as a recording unit was drummer Ringo Starr, who was highly creative, stylistically adaptable and extremely reliable, rarely needing more than one take. In fact, in their entire recorded archive, there are fewer than twenty major takes that break down because of a mistake by Ringo.' Do we need a puff piece for Ringo?

Toned down somewhat. I don't see the problem with it. The paragraph says that the Beatles were efficient in the studio, then mentions an author who pointed specifically to Ringo as being especially efficient. This seems appropriate to me, but I have removed the bit about Ringo only failing a take twenty times in their career, as that should be in his article, not here.

11.'By the time they came to record the album, The Beatles' musical interests and abilities...' I didn't realise that 'musical interests and abilities' could record albums.

The entire sentence was By the time they came to record the album, The Beatles' musical interests and abilities had grown enormously from their simple pop beginnings. Its been re-worded slightly, but your interpretation is mistaken -- the verb is clearly "had grown", not "record".

You miss my point. The subject of "came to record" in the opening clause is "musical interests and abilities". :)

I'm afraid I still miss it. In any case, I changed it to By the time The Beatles recorded the album, their musical interests had grown from.... Is this less confusing?

I'll stop here. I'm afraid it's just too poorly written at the moment.

Do you want me to read on now?

If you like, though if no one else votes, there will be no point as the article can't get featured.

jguk 18:39, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)

The Simpsons

Self-nominated, I think that this is one of the reasons we have TV. The long-running series deserves to be a featured article.- B-101 11:22, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• Support. Definitely worth featuring. Ornil 13:15, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• I love it, but I oppose because of no references. Johnleemk | Talk 13:24, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Object. Please expand the lead section and cite references and I'll support. Zerbey 14:58, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• What do you mean with no references?- B-101 15:07, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • See Wikipedia:Cite sources. Johnleemk | Talk 16:17, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Object. 1) The lead section is insufficient. See Wikipedia:Lead section. 2) The main characters deserve more discussion than just a single sentence per character. Wiggum and Skinner even get longer descriptions! 3) There are a lot of lists and single paragraph sections (e.g. "Guest celebrities") in this article. Other sections, such as "Memes", are close to being a list. This should be improved by writing better prose, or moving the lists off to separate articles. 4) There need to be less "trivia" facts, and more general statements. For example, the part about the 3D world in the Halloween section is not of general interest. The history section also has several of such trivia which do not even seem to belong in that section. 5) We are not informed of the popularity of the show. How many watch it? How are the ratings? It's a US series, but is it also broadcast abroad? 6) The article seems internally inconsistent. For example, "Trivia" mentions that many characters where named for persons in Groening's life, but an entire list section is already dedicated to that early in the article. Jeronimo 20:22, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • I disagree with the 3D world not needing a mention - I think it was an important and highly anticipated part of The Simpsons. I remember seeing it and being quite impressed by how well it was done and there was quite a bit of hype surrounding it. However, there may well be other trivia there that doesn't need discussion. violet/riga (t) 09:28, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Object. Agree with Jeronimo. - Taxman 20:55, Oct 26, 2004 (UTC)
• I too believe there are too many lists. →Raul654 01:40, Oct 27, 2004 (UTC)
• Object, not nearly complete. [[User:Neutrality|Neutrality (hopefully!)]] 02:21, Oct 27, 2004 (UTC)
• Object. Needs at least some mention of Phil Hartman. violet/riga (t) 09:28, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Object. Totally agree with the nominator that the series deserves to have a featured article, but that's not the same thing as saying the existing article deserves to be featured. With more work it could, but I agree about the many gaps detailed by Jeronimo. A problem like the references hiding under a non-standard headline like Academia ought not to be hard to fix. The requests for references made by voters here highlight the reason for standardizing such matters: readers need to know where to find things.--Bishonen 13:25, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Object.--Josiah 06:09, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Celtic Tiger

Partial self-nomination, i've spent quite a while doing up this article with the help of a few others, I think it now meets FA status, it details the main causes, the resurgence of the tiger, the 2001 downturn, challenges ahead and much more. CGorman 10:14, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• Support, disclosing the fact that I made a couple of small edits. Filiocht 10:23, Oct 26, 2004 (UTC)
• Support. Excellent article. Seabhcan 10:53, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support. Well researched. Zerbey 15:10, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support. Good, just one or two little quibbles:
  • The lead section says it refers to Ireland during that time, but didn't it refer to the economic growth?
    • Althought Celtic Tiger is mostly used to describe Irelands economic growth, the Celtic Tiger can also refer to Ireland in a more general manner in just the same way as people call Ireland The Emerald Isle. CGorman 17:38, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • The graphs could be improved on - they're slightly unclear. JOHN COLLISON [ Ludraman] 16:50, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)
    • I would disagree - they are quiet clear, if someone really finds them difficult to see, then they can always click on them to see the orignial sized graph - but I maintain that there very clear. CGorman 17:38, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support. Very nice. Tuf-Kat 17:31, Oct 26, 2004 (UTC)
• Support - some minor comments, not worth objecting over: (i) CamelCase headings need addressing (in fact, should the article be celtic tiger?); (ii) I think the graphs and images are a bit blocky - do they need anti-aliasing?; (iii) the headline tiger image is a bit monochrome to be "green striped" - could someone colour it? -- ALoan 18:52, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support - detailed, original material, also good referencing - good mix of images and links to other relevant things. Djegan 20:02, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Comment I want to support because this is great stuff, but the focus on so much material in an article under this term seems a little missaplied. For example, much of the article like the entire 'Challenges and threats ahead' section is not really about the term 'Celtic Tiger', but instead general material that should be in the much poorer article Economy of Ireland. I fixed the capitalization in the headings. I think the graphs are fine. The links to this article are buried in the places that I would go to look for information on the economy of Ireland, which seems to support the idea of this term being off a bit or even a bit misleading to what the article content is. - Taxman 20:51, Oct 26, 2004 (UTC)
  • Well the challenges and threats ahead are in reference to the continued resurgance of the Celtic Tiger 2, so I would feel that such material is necessary for this article. The term Celtic Tiger really is used as a description of the Irish Economy from the late 90's onwards, so in reality this article is about that economic period - not just a brief description of the term Celtic Tiger. CGorman 18:57, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
    • I'm somewhat swayed by that argument, if you want to have this be the focus article on the Irish economy during the time period. But that then brings the question of is the Celtic Tiger II, really a widely agreed upon phenomenon, or widely used phrase. If not, then much of that and the material I referenced above is out of place and is what makes this article awkward on what subject it does and should cover. Also "The challenge is to spread the new wealth nationwide to remote areas such as Connemara and Donegal." is a value judgement, that needs to be attributed to someone or some group specifically or removed/more factually stated. - Taxman 03:07, Oct 28, 2004 (UTC)
      • Yes it is agreed that the Tiger has returned (see RTE report July 04' as an example), so since this article deals with the Celtic Tiger period of Irish Economic history - then the content of the article is applicable to this topic. Also I have attributed the point "The challenge is to spread the new wealth nationwide to remote areas such as Connemara and Donegal." to an IDA report (click on the link beside the comment in the article and read the last section of the report). Have I addressed your concerns fully yet? CGorman 17:40, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Comment It would be much better for this kind of stuff to be at Economy of Ireland. "Celtic Tiger" is just a nickname. Gdr 21:03, 2004 Oct 26 (UTC)
  • As pointed out above, this article deals with the economy of Ireland during a period lasting from the late 90's till today, so all economic information for that period should be relevent. As also pointed out, it is unfair to criticise this article for the poverty of another. I plan on working on the Economy of Ireland article next - I plan to include a reasonable history section with see alsos to articles such as Celtic Tiger (which covers 1997-2004), the Lemass Era (which covers the mid 60's), perhaps an article on De Valera protectionism (which covers the first few years of Irish independance) and maybe an article the Charlie Haughey's corrupt era (the 1980's) CGorman 17:45, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Comment I'm inclined to agree. We wouldn't have an article on the asian economies at 'asian tiger', and so by comparison I don't think this belongs here either. →Raul654 01:42, Oct 27, 2004 (UTC)
  • We do have an article on the East Asian Tigers. Both subjects are academic research topics. I think it is unfair to criticise this article for the poverty of another, though obviously some of this material could pump up the economy article. The Economy of Ireland needs to take a longer time frame and cover different economic sectors. This article is a more detailed child article concerned with modern economic history, i.e. since the 1990's and is concerned with causes and derterminants of Ireland's economic miracle. ChrisG 18:11, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
    • I stand corrected. →Raul654 23:47, Oct 29, 2004 (UTC)
• Support. Oppose, until the POV on "causes" is eliminated. [[User:Neutrality|Neutrality (hopefully!)]] 02:21, Oct 27, 2004 (UTC)
  • I have backed up the claims made by various reports and articles. I have rewritten and backed up the section at the end of causes relating to Charlie McCreevy, Mary Hearney and Bertie Ahern - which I felt was the main reason you objectd - I admit, it was biased and unsupported. I hope I have rectified your concerns. CGorman 20:29, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support. ChrisG 18:11, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support ZayZayEM 03:33, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Formula One

Quite complete, well-written, and intuitively organized. It is somewhat of a self-nomination, though I am not by any means its primary contributor. [[User:Rdsmith4|User:Rdsmith4/sig]] 03:33, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Previously nominated and rejected twice, the last nomination was in September. When renominating, it is probably useful to specify if and how previous criticism has been addressed in the meantime. -- [[User:Solitude|Solitude\^talk]] 09:36, Oct 26, 2004 (UTC)

• • Comment These are the objections from the September 2004 nomination and the ways in which I believe they’ve been dealt with: Biased towards the present; history summary deals only with technical regs. The history summary is now much improved and includes info on the dominant drivers and constructors of the eras. Some sections only link to a list. Sections have been re-arranged and short summaries of all topics have been made. Related topics section repeats too many links already covered in the main text. Fixed. Templates and categories should not be linked to in the main text. This was debated about, but cats and templates have been moved to talk page. No book references Book and internet references added. External links section need no be cleaned out. Done. No source info for Fangio/Moss image. "Copyrighted, fair use claimed" template added. Budgets and international attention not covered sufficiently. Info on the both has been added throughout the article. SamH 10:50, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Object. I can't imagine how using the F1 logo in a series box can qualify as fair use. Markalexander100 07:25, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • It looks to me like we have a very strong case for fair use. The logo is being used in a highly original work, for non profit purposes, and will have negligible impact on the F1 brand name. Also, we're using just as much as we need to (since half a logo wouldn't exactly be sensible). So like I said, it looks to me like we have a strong case. →Raul654 08:04, Oct 26, 2004 (UTC)
    • On the other hand, we are using it rather indiscriminately (14 times, currently) on pages which directly compete with F1's official site. Using the logo once on this page to say "this is the F1 logo" would be analogous to quoting and fine; but what we are doing is using it as a logo ourselves for all of our own coverage. That's what other organisations pay a lot of money for. Markalexander100 08:48, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Comment: Is there a mention somewhere about Ecclestone's talk of pulling out the Silverstone track in the future? [[User:MacGyverMagic|Mgm|^(talk)]] 07:30, Oct 26, 2004 (UTC)

It was already mentioned on Bernie Ecclestone, but I've added a paragraph under the "Future of Formula One" section regarding future races, including those whose future is in doubt, and a few new ones which are due to appear in the next few years. [[User:Rdsmith4|User:Rdsmith4/sig]] 22:30, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• Support. SamH 10:51, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support. [[User:MacGyverMagic|Mgm|^(talk)]] 20:55, Oct 29, 2004 (UTC)
• Support ZayZayEM 03:31, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support. Godspeed, article. AlexanderWinston 02:37, 2004 Oct 31 (UTC)

B-29 Superfortress

Self nomination. I have done most of the work on the article as it exists now. It is comprehensive on the aeroplane's history from its early origins to its current operability. It has references. Its up to WikiProject Aircraft standards. It comprehensively describes all variants. It provides references. It has a comprehensive set of statistics. It certainly deserves it. •→Iñgólemo←• 06:09, 2004 Oct 25 (UTC)

I bet ‘Enola Gay’ with (those kind of) quotes is against all the naming conventions. I'd write it Enola Gay. Anyway, those names are just a minor issue, so support. --ZeroOne 06:16, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• Object. 1) The table at the bottom seems like a duplicate of the sidetable at the top. If there are any new values, these should either be include in the top table, or the table at the bottom should only list these. Also some of the values conflict. F.e., the "first flight" is more specific at the bottom than at the top. 2) The units in these tables (m, kg, etc.) should be linked to the corresponding article on first mention (see WP:MOS). 3) Values in this table that are not known (e.g. rate of climb) should be removed, or it should be indicated that these are not known. 4) I find the operational history rather short. Basically, there are only four sentences about their actual history. More detail is needed about their actions in WOII and Korea, especially about the former.

5) The "Units Using the B-29" section should be converted in a table mentioning more information (numbers used, f.e.), or be merged with the operational history. As it stands, this section is hardly useful. The use by the RAF is not mentioned elsewhere in the article. 6) The two footers seem partially overlapping, and some of them should be listed as categories. 7) The references seem incomplete. None of the mentioned sites seems to have the version history (for example), so additional sources must have been used. Please list them. There must also have been written books about the Superfortress. If you know of any, please list them (if only as further reading). 8) I'm curious about the name Superfortress; was it derived from the B-17? Did Boeing dub it thus, or did pilots name it such? The name isn't mentioned anywhere in the article save the captions - this really should be discussed. 9) The article could really use some additional photographs. (Not an objection) Jeronimo 06:57, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Response to 1)I noted the comment on the blue data table, and I figured I'd give it a trial deletion. Another user reverted it in less than two minutes. The blue data table is no longer the format endorsed by WikiProject Aircraft, but after a debate on the system to be used in the new format, it was agreed to leave the data table as it stands in the articles that use the blue data table. 2) Do you mean, literally link 22 m as to metre, in the form 22 m? WP:MOS suggests that the convention would be to link it to 1 E1 m. 3) Some statistics just aren't provided in any of the material we have come across. The reason rate of climb (900 ft/min) isn't provided in the blue data table is because it's provided in the statistics subsection. Since that subsection is the current endorsed format for statistics, the blue table hasn't been used to add new information for some time. 5) The recommendations are not within the standard formatting endorsed by WikiProject Aircraft; the section as it stands is. 6) I respectfully disagree about the footers being overlapping. As to listing them as categories, I don't think that that is a problem with the article, so much as it is with the titles of those lists that it links to. 7) I can look for other sites, but the references are as I found them, with the addition of those I used. The version history is compiled from each of the 25 articles the [USAF Museum] has on each of the 20+ listed variants. I'll work on the references 8) I'm not sure about the name. None of the references describe it. The only thing I know is the conjecture I have that it is related to its rôle as successor of the Flying Fortress. The reason Superfortress is never used in the article is because convention is to refer to it as the B-29, not the Superfortress. 9) Believe it or not, public domain images are hard to come by. •→Iñgólemo←• 02:39, 2004 Oct 26 (UTC)

1) I think duplication is bad in this case, since there are essentially two tables (it would be OK if some of the facts were mentioned in normal prose text, though). Either drop the sidetable or the bottom table. One of the requirements for a FA is that the article should conform to any applicable WikiProjects. If that says use the bottom table, you should lose the sidetable. (I would personally prefer the sidetable, though, the bottom one is very ugly). 2) I intended your first suggestion. 3) Another reason to drop one of the tables. This is just plain confusing and ugly. 5) If you want to feature this article, the section needs to get more content, or be removed. WikiProjects are important, but it is impossible to fit every topic in a tight harnass. If there is nothing more to be said than just this, it doesn't deserve a section for this article. I think that should be acceptable for the WikiProject, too. 7) There have previously been problems with footers, and I don't really care for them, but others may complain about them. 8) I think it would be interesting to add if you can find it anywhere. Not vital, though. Jeronimo 17:40, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• My, hasn't this article grown since I last looked at it... Support. Zerbey 02:57, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support ZayZayEM 03:30, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• I think the Russian copy, the TU-4 should be mentionned somewhere see http://www.rb-29.net/HTML/03RelatedStories/03.03shortstories/03.03.10contss.htm

Ericd 10:17, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Optigan

Another self-nomination. I've had one of these, uh, organs quite literally from the age of twelve. I learned to play piano by ear thanks in part to the thing! - Lucky 6.9 04:41, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• Support.Fifelfoo 06:20, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Object. Please look at Wikipedia:What is a featured article and Wikipedia:Manual of Style. 1) No lead section. 2) The pictures are of low quality, notably the "sing along" image. 3) This article needs at least one sound sample. 4) Use level two headings. 5) Are there any book references/further reading? 6) The article seems rather short. Can't think of any major things missing though. Jeronimo 07:12, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• I've cleaned up the lead section and headings per your suggestion. Can't do much about the pictures, though. Some photos I found on other sites some time ago weren't GDFL-compatible. The photos on the article were taken from optigan.com with permission. I plan to add a discography and list of songbooks ASAP. As for audio samples, I can probably link to some on optigan.com since I don't have an mp3 to Ogg Vorbis converter. Any other suggestions? - Lucky 6.9 00:01, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Linking would also be good, although having the samples local would be better (other sites will change). The photos are "bearable", but should be improved when possible. However, I'll maintain my objection awaiting sound samples and references. Jeronimo 11:16, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Jesus

Very good article. [[User:Neutrality|Neutrality (hopefully!)]] 03:42, Oct 24, 2004 (UTC)

• Support (nominator). Past objections have dealt with. [[User:Neutrality|Neutrality (hopefully!)]] 03:42, Oct 24, 2004 (UTC)
• Support, excellent article. Some comments: 1. I note that there has been a recent discussion about the page being moved on the talk page, has this all been straightened out? 2. Nominating this article is going to make the heated debate on the Shroud of Turin seem like a minor disagreement... good luck! :) Zerbey 04:38, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Basically everyone who has worked on the article has accepted (or demanded) that it be at Jesus and not at Jesus Christ; however, we have a lot of "drive by"s who strongly object to leaving off the Christ. I think the issue is decided, but there's still a lot of bickering (especially a recent Jehovah's Witness issue that resulted in protecting the page). I have worked a lot on the article, but I don't think I can support its promotion yet -- I hope one day, but the points made here are valid. Neutral for now. Mpolo 19:23, Oct 25, 2004 (UTC)
• Support Dysprosia 06:07, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Object. One liner or paragraph sections such as at Jesus#The_names_and_titles_of_Jesus should not exist. "Introduction" is not a valid header. The lead section is the introduction! And if not, the lead section needs major expansion. --Jiang 06:30, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Object. 1) No lead section. Most or all of the introduction section should be moved here. 2) There are no references, only further reading. 3) This article assumes a lot of knowledge and therefore gives little context. Take the first sentence of "Introduction": "According to the Gospels, Jesus was the Jewish Messiah and the Son of God, who served a ministry in Galilee and Judaea, and was ultimately crucified in Jerusalem by order of the Roman governor Pontius Pilate before rising from the dead on the third day." I think at least the terms Messiah, Galilee and Judaea need explanation in this or following sentences. Such problems occur throughout the text. Ideally, it should be possible to get a good understanding of this article without having to grab a dictionary or click all of the blue links. 4) The section "Christian perspectives on Jesus" doesn't tell anything that has not already been mentioned before in the article. In fact, it only gives one perspective, not multiple. As it stands, this section seems useless. Jeronimo 10:15, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • "Names and titles of Jesus" isn't a one-line section -- it has four subsections. Mpolo 19:23, Oct 25, 2004 (UTC)
• Object. Try doing a search through the article for the word "some" and you'll see how many unattributed critics and churches there are. - Ta bu shi da yu 12:24, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • I fixed only one instance based on personal knowledge of Catholic tradition, but I know nothing about the others except the Muslim perspective of Jesus' cruxificion (based on discussions with Muslim friends). Johnleemk | Talk 12:58, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Object, I agree with Jeronimo. Also, why is there information about portrayals of Jesus in 20th and 21st century drama but nothing about portrayals of Jesus in the preceding 1900 years of art (and in other forms of art in general)? The information exists elsewhere in Wikipedia, but at least a summary and a link to a main article (Images of Jesus?) should be provided. Fredrik | talk 13:58, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Object. At 42kb (at time of writing), it's far too long. Since featured articles are meant to be the best, it should conform with size guidelines. Needs to be reduced to below 32kb at the very least. jguk 22:42, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Object. The lead seems OK now, but there is no explicit References section (Further reading is not the same thing), there are too amny single-sentence paragraphs (some may be validly so, but not all) amd the 'Some' issue raised by Ta bu shi da yu is valid, IMHO. Filiocht 09:56, Oct 26, 2004 (UTC)
• Object. Article does not address Jesus' place in history. Also, the heretical notion that Jesus was homosexual, if based solely on conjecture in a work of fiction, has no place in the article. It appears to depend on misconstrued translation: According to New Testament scholars, in the phrase "the disciple whom Jesus loved," the word that is translated as "love" is "philo" (John 20:2) in the original Greek, which means brotherly love, or "agapas" (John 21:20) which means Godly love. Sexual love would be "eros".--Johnstone 11:55, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support.--Josiah 05:57, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Super Mario 64

The first Gaming COTW, and a very good article. [[User:Neutrality|Neutrality (hopefully!)]] 13:51, Oct 20, 2004 (UTC)

• Support; may benefit from a references section, however (the Notes section is a good start :-)). Zerbey 16:06, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Strong support; regarding references, a good deal of it is direct observation of the game. Andre (talk) 17:23, Oct 20, 2004 (UTC)
• Support. -- [[User:Bobdoe|BobDoe]] 23:34, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Strong support. I'm impressed! - Ta bu shi da yu 04:10, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Object. Needs a longer Wikipedia:Lead section, summarising the article. Other than that, this seems fine. Perhaps adding the instruction manual as a reference is a good idea? Jeronimo 06:38, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support. But please consider, naming the notes. They're only numbers now. [[User:MacGyverMagic|Mgm|^(talk)]] 08:16, Oct 21, 2004 (UTC)
• Strong Support. Gaming Collaboration of the week did a great job on its first article, I think. For anyone who's interested, GCOTW's History page has some more details concerning what the collaboration did to it. pie4all88 20:38, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Object. There are places where the writing could be improved, and there are bits of POV which should be eliminated. Also, more of the information in the externally linked interview about the game's development needs to be included. This shouldn't be much work... hopefully I'll be unlazy enough to do it myself. Fredrik | talk 20:49, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support. --Alex Krupp 04:32, Oct 23, 2004 (UTC)
• Support when a picture is added or it would be problematic to feature on the main page :-). Nah, seriously, support. JOHN COLLISON [ Ludraman] 08:05, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Support ZayZayEM 03:27, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Object--Josiah 06:02, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Uh...aren't you supposed to say why you object? Johnleemk | Talk 10:17, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Pictures

The first list is featured articles that do not have a picture and hence would be problematic to put on the main page. Please add pictures and then move to the second list. GFDL or PD preferred — avoid fair use images where possible (they may not be fair use on the main page).

Tangentially connected pictures may also be suitable for the main page, even if they wouldn't sit well with the article itself. Use your common sense.

Featured articles missing pictures

• Chuck Palahniuk (needs picture of author)
• Gram Parsons
• Negligence
• Not the Nine O'Clock News

These now have pictures

• Ackermann function - use pic of equation
• Anno Domini - Smerdis of Tlön 19:14, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)
• Application programming interface - use UML lollipop symbol for an interface.
• ASCII (a lame one)
• Computer security - now has one diagram.
• Have I Got News For You (fair use)
• Illegal prime (It now has 2 images.)
  • Neither of which adds anything to the article. In fact, it detracts. GWO 19:45, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)
    • Instead of criticizing others' work, perhaps you could provide a better image. – Quadell ^{(talk) (help)}[[]] 14:19, Oct 11, 2004 (UTC)
      • Well, what of? This is an abstract concept. You can't take pictures of it. This article does not need a picture, they add nothing. They've clearly been added to slavishly meet some FAC criterion, which really should have been waived in this case as completely inappropriate. -- GWO
        • The point is that on the front page, the format requires a picture. That is, it is already featured, but can't be used on the front page without some sort of image. I saw that German WP used an image of E=mc² as an image for relativity, for instance. Mpolo 10:49, Oct 19, 2004 (UTC)
          • If you have to break articles to fit an inflexible format, it's the format that needs reforming, not the articles. GWO
• Indus Valley Civilization (fair use picture)
• Jazz (still needs free image)
• Jim Henson (still needs free image)
• Korean name - use Image:Hangul_seong.png
• Madonna (singer) (still needs free image)
• Markup language (well, sort-of; suitable for main page? James F. (talk) 15:02, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)) (don't see why not Lupin 00:37, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC))
• Peloponnesian War - use image: Corinth_Temple_of_Apollon.jpg for now, until a better one is found. - Taxman 15:32, Sep 24, 2004 (UTC)