Jump to content

Wikipedia talk:Irish Wikipedians' notice board

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Filiocht (talk | contribs) at 12:57, 2 November 2004 (→[[Economy of Ireland]]: POV concerns). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

This page is a notice board for things particularly relevant to Irish Wikipedians

Archived Sections

Archive 1 (up to mid-Sept 2004), Archive 2 (mid-end Sept 2004), Archive 3 (current archive),
Recently Archived:
National Monuments, PdPhoto, Moving to-do list, Umbrella category, Cabinet reshuffle, Subcats of Cat:Ire, Notice board a success, Wikipedia 2005 Meetup - Dublin, Ryanair, UK wikipedians' notice board, How do we link to Ireland?, Ireland Information Guide, Call for assistance, Irish Humour

Wikipedia 2005 meetup

Ok, I think we all have a very vested interest in having the 2005 Wikipedian meetup in Ireland. But not only that, I think it would be a very good place to have it. So what I suggest is this - let's get our act together and decide which city is best to have it in, think up of some good reasons, get some ideas for if it were there, and make our proposal to the meta page regarding the nominations. It seems the UK Wikipedians are behind us. In terms of local helpership, that's something that needs to be addressed. I can't do much except research really (4 more years...) but I might be able to find good hotel rates, attractions, discounts, flight info etc. if it was held in limerick. Plus maybe I could pull some strings with my parents :-). I made the advantages/disadvantages of the cities up above. What do people think? JOHN COLLISON | (Ludraman) 20:39, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Sure theres only 2 days left till the selection process finishs - Its way to late to be mucking about about other cities. CGorman 20:59, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Dublin has made it to the last 6! They need more information on conferance facilities and prices. To follow the whole selection process, check out [1] CGorman 17:59, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)

If anyone else can help out at all, please sign up on the list of candidate cities as a local helper. There will be a discussion involving all local helpers, we need more exact details for Dublin as CGorman said above.
Essentially, we need to figure out where in Dublin the event could be held (need a main hall holding 200+ and smaller workshop rooms), and for how much. So we need to ring places and get quotes. I suggest we correlate information on this page as we find it out.
The known details for the meetup to consider
  • September preferred, but possibly July/August
  • Unknown number will meet, but get info for 200, 300 and 400 people.
The details we need:
  • Meeting place (hotel, University, conference facilities)
  • Accommodation (cheap - hostels, etc. If in summer can Uni accommodation be used (UL in Limerick do this, do the Dublin colleges?))
  • Flight costs (from a variety of locations, on various dates)
Anything else?
If people can even check out one item, that is a help! Do note it here to avoid duplicate queries.
zoney ♣ talk 18:13, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • A useful site: [Dublin convention bureau]
    • I've emailed dcb at dublinconventionbureau dot com and made a preliminary inquiry with them about venues. That's please not to stop anyone from pursuing other avenues of enquiry and seeking to obtain venue info before the October 17th IRC. (Don't forget to join the IRC! See Meta page.) Ropers 12:49, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)

venuesireland.com

I found a useful site - venuesireland.com - who find suitable venues for conferences for free. I emailed them with the info (answered to the best of my ability) and a person emailed me back asking for more detail. I can't answer all these questions - can anyone?

Responses by zoney ♣ talk
  • What style seating should the main meeting room be in - theatre, classroom, cabaret?
Theatre
  • Do you need any accommodation?
Yes (though this can be arranged independantly)
  • Do you require any breakout space?
I presume this means smaller workshop rooms (i.e. yes)
  • Will you need catering i.e. tea/coffee breaks / lunch / dinner?
I don't know
  • Is the date set as the 1st & 2nd Sept 05? Are you flexible at all?
We are flexible, July or August are fine (date has not been agreed) as well
  • you have highlighted your preferred location as Dublin - would you like a city centre property or would you also consider a property further out?
I think this is flexible. Dublin transport isn't that ridiculous. That said, if it's outlying location, it needs to be by bus route/Luas/rail.

A full copy of the email is at User:Ludraman/email about meetup. JOHN COLLISON | (Ludraman) 17:45, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Milestone

Well, that's 343, three hundred and forty-three, articles on Irish towns (north and south) categorised, Irish added, basic details, stub message (if needed), link to parent list, all done! I feel quite happy! Congrats to CGorman and all the others who've been helping out. Having these well-organised articles, even if just stubs, will hopefully encourage people to add to the articles.

The next thing to do, is to work out the ten worst examples, I mean, a stub for a small town is not so bad, but Wexford? So we need to see what the priorities are for expansion.

zoney ♣ talk 00:06, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)

A seperate todo list would be handy (I'm sure Filiocht would second that, he's big into them ;-). JOHN COLLISON [ Ludraman] 08:19, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)
See Talk:List of towns in the Republic of Ireland - to-do list started. zoney ♣ talk 16:32, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)
I'm there! This is a sensational project. Filiocht 12:23, Oct 20, 2004 (UTC)

Attorney General

I am not particularily good at Irish but is the síneadh fada used in Árd-Aighne (Attorney General of Ireland) correct, does Ard usually get a fada (I though not) or is this another case of giving every vowel, in Irish, a fada for the sake of it, lest we leave it out - the Constitution of Ireland does not have a fada, but the website does?

You're right - the correct Irish for Attorney General is Ard-Aighne, regardless of what the website says. A rather gormless mistake - surely someone would have noticed before it got used that widely? --Kwekubo 22:22, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Bring on the síneadh fada police! Djegan 19:21, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Actually, I may have to eat my words on this - Árd could possibly be a dialecta variant of Ard. I saw that Árd-Oifig an Phoist is written onto the GPO. --Kwekubo 21:56, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Notice

Please take a moment to counter the silly listing for deletion of Heritage railways in Northern Ireland. It was a bit sorrier early (though only a cleanup candidate or stub), but I've expanded it. Vote at Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Heritage railways in Northern Ireland. Thanks. zoney ♣ talk 16:21, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Ahem. Donegal is not in NI... Kiand 16:31, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)
D'oh!!! :-) On the flipside, the RPSI who are based in Whitehead, Co. Antrim were listed on the RoI page. Bah - stupid partition :-) zoney ♣ talk 16:34, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)
I'll oppose the deletion now. Just didn't want to suddenly find I was from the UK and not Ireland Kiand 16:38, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Wikimedia convention in Dublin?

Please help to answer the questions at meta:Wikimania:City#Questions if you would like Dublin to be the host of the international Wikimedia convention next year. All answers should go to meta:Wikimania:City/Dublin. The selection committee meets on Sunday 31 October, so answers must be in before then. Thanks. Angela. 21:50, Oct 20, 2004 (UTC)

Image Editing software

Ive got a 1m image of Charlie McCreevy that needs re-sizing etc. I don't have any software for that. If you can do it, email me for the image. -- Rye1967 23:23, Oct 20, 2004 (UTC)

Page name

Hello all,

I would like to change the names of the regional notice boards from "XXXX wikipedians' notice board" to "XXXX-related topics notice board" or "XXXX topics notice board". The current names sound like they discourage people who are not from XXXX from joining or contributing. Would anyone object if I move this page to Wikipedia:Ireland-related topics notice board, or something along those lines? Any suggestions are welcome. -spencer195 01:26, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Personally, I'd rather it stayed where it is. Filiocht 07:38, Oct 21, 2004 (UTC)
I don't consider there to be much point in possibly just making an attempt to be politically correct. The board was started by Irish wikipedians' and I think it should stay with that name. I do of course agree that the notice boards are for anyone with an interest to participate, but as long as people uphold that point, I think a name change is unnecessary. zoney ♣ talk 11:16, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)

George Moore (novelist)

Hi: this article is posted on WP:FAC and so far has attracted only one vote, an object now changed to a support. Please consider voting for or against. Thanks. Filiocht 08:18, Oct 21, 2004 (UTC)

Villages in Ireland

From Talk:Gougane Barra

Gougane Barra isn't a town: it's not even a village. It's a lake, a church, and about four houses that are not even close to each other - whereas Ballingeary, 2 miles for it, is a village proper. Can I suugest that it be removed from category towns, for possible inclusion in 'historic places in Ireland' at some point? rroddy 16:19, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)

This is a problem with not just this article, but a relatively small bunch of places in Ireland that have stubs on Wikipedia. There were a few overzealous additions to town lists (on the county pages, and the master list), and hence stubs were created for completeness. I'll raise the issue at Wikipedia talk:Irish wikipedians' notice board, as this affects a few other places too which aren't really towns (or even notable as villages). So lets hold off on Gougane Barra until we get a coherent suggestion to apply across the board. We may need to evaluate whether such places merit articles (they may of course, because despite the small size, some have hundreds of years of history).
Anyone else interested should see how the discussion pans out at the aforementioned page. zoney ♣ talk 16:32, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I suggest we sort this problem out before it comes to a head with people randomly listing Irish location articles on VfD - as others will draw less distinction between valid Irish town articles and non-notable Irish village articles. Also some villages probably do deserve articles, due to their hundreds of years of history, or some notability (e.g. Sallins on the railway line to Cork).

So what do people suggest we do? Carefully decide do we want to nominate by consensus Gougane Barra and some similar pages for deletion? Immediately ensure history or notability information is added to such articles? (Can for example, Gougane Barra be written about?). Help and ideas please? zoney ♣ talk 16:32, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Remember that the number of places that are officially "towns" is actually quite limited - less than 100 - the Central Statistics Office maintains a list of places that it uses the term "town" with - also ***strictly speaking*** for the terms of local government the following "shall be known as towns..." Local Government Act, 2001 - Local Government Areas (Towns) - however this within itself does not prevent using a generic definition of a town - in the UK the difference between a city, town or village is quite formal, in Ireland is has become less so since independence. Either way i think that the categorisation advantages outweights the ambiguity of statusDjegan 19:48, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)

That definition of Town is scarily limiting. Maynooth is by far the 'most important' town in North Kildare, yet Leixlip is the sole town. And it hasn't even got a supermarket or (to the best of my knowledge, this is) a petrol station. It has got Intel though, but Maynooth has the NUI and all the shops. Hope we're not going to limit ourselfs to that list :-).

Kiand 23:17, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Not to mention that the people of Kilkenny will give out when they find that they're not living in a city. :) I'd go with a more non-formal town definition to allow lists include larger non-town-council-having towns. jlang
All the information I have at hand indicates Kilkenny is a bona fida city - however the local government system is not - if in doubt discuss in Cities in Ireland! Djegan 19:55, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Indeed, but I was less concentrating on the issue raised as regards categorisation (I'm happy to use "towns" quite broadly), and more the issue of such articles' place in Wikipedia. Should we remove the few short stubs on very small places (e.g. Gougane Barra) that don't have anything in particular (besides name+location) written about them yet? If not, what should we do to stave off others deciding that such articles should be VfD'ed? zoney ♣ talk 22:09, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)
I'd favour expanding the stubs. In fact, I might have a little stab at Gougane Barra this very day. Could we have a Category:Places in Ireland with cities, towns and villages as sub-cats and these other places as direct members of the Places cat? Glad to see that Sallins counts as a real place, anyway! Filiocht 09:54, Oct 22, 2004 (UTC)
I didn't mean to suggest that Gougane Barra be deleted: there's a pile of history there, and it would be wrong to. I'll contribute to the page as I can. It's just that it's not a town. It's like, erm, the Hill of Tara: a place, just not a town. Maybe it's a gazetteer that should be developed for Ireland. Just my 2p. rroddy 10:07, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Categorising towns and villages

Thanks for the input. OK, so now back to the categorisation issue. Here's the thing. There is already Category:Cork, Category:Dublin, Category:County Kerry, Category:Limerick topics (this latter cat should probably be renamed for consistency). Eventually I hope we can have one of these for each county (albeit minus "County" for the city counties of Cork, Limerick, Dublin and possibly Galway and Waterford). They are subcategories of Category:Counties of Ireland of course (which holds the county articles as members also).

However, I'd also hoped to conserve the "Towns in ..." categories and not just place towns directly in Category:Dublin for example (although the town categories are subcategories of those county/city cats). The Dublin towns category is already termed Category:Towns and suburbs in Dublin reflecting the fuzzy nature of many Dublin places (e.g. Dundrum is a town but part of Dublin city). Should we just rename ALL these town categories to be "Places in ..."? But that would include landmarks, which I don't want to include. Should it be "Settlements in ...". But that sounds silly. Has anyone a proposed solution?

zoney ♣ talk 11:26, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)


How about, for example, Category:Places in Dublin with a subcategory Towns in Dublin and articles on, say, Phoenix Park as direct members of the Places cat?
I'd leave things largely as they are - towns/settlements in category "Towns in xxx" and other notable articles about things/places/landmarks in or relating to the county in the category "County xxx" (Or tidied up to be consistently like that). I considered changing the links to category:Counties_of_Ireland to sort on the county name rather than the word county, but said I'd mention it here first. jlang 14:52, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Ah, I see the problem now, there aren't 'County xxx' categories except for those you've listed above. Then I vote that there should be. jlang
So, further to JLang's comments, I suggest we go with:
Are people agreeable to this? It keeps things relatively simple (plus I REALLY don't want to recategorise all the town articles).
zoney ♣ talk 16:28, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Seems sensible to me. Filiocht 08:20, Oct 26, 2004 (UTC)

My comments yesterday were not intended to rollback the tremendous work done on towns - its is important to remember that local government in Ireland has not undergone sustantial reform since the Local Government (Ireland) Act 1898 - as usual the government has simply face painted whats their and quite honestly made a muck of it - Irish governments have never created one city even though several boroughs and towns are (by official boundaries) larger than Kilkenny by far - therefore anything that has more than a crossroads and a donkey might well be considered a town without a great streach of the imagination - just make it clear in the article text city, borough, town or village. Djegan 19:25, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Category:Limerick topics

Zoney said "Category:Limerick topics (this latter cat should probably be renamed for consistency)". I agree, but I suggest that it be renamed to something like Category:Midwest as opposed to Category:Limerick, as topics of interest to Limerick City include things in south County Clare and west Tipperary. Limerick City is a bit of a special case, being on the border of its county. Seabhcan 11:38, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)

RTÉ Lyric FM

Just stumbled across this and have removed a heap of POV text plus the {{npov}} tag. Could someone check what I've done, please? Filiocht 11:07, Oct 22, 2004 (UTC)

Seems fair enough to pare it down as you did. I think it's better. Obviously the article could use more content, but I'm sure we'll eventually get around to it. zoney ♣ talk 16:30, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Northern Ireland

On the Ireland page appears Template:Northern Ireland - is this relevent to "Ireland", as the island, it is a list of districts of Northern Ireland - should only the traditional counties template appear ? Djegan 20:24, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Celtic Tiger

I've been working away on the Celtic Tiger article for the last week now, with the view of putting it up for featured article status. Before I put it up though, I want to give a few days for any of yee to point out any mistakes or ommissions to me, so that I can rectify them before listing the article on WP:FAC. In effect I would like a few proof-reads. Please responed soon! I hope to nominate it before the 30th Oct. CGorman 22:09, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Brilliant work CGorman. IMHO, one slight critism is that the "Spreading the Wealth" section should talk a little about poverity black-spots in the inner cities and council estates that saw little benefit from the Celtic Tiger. Did unemployment, crime or drug use change there during those years? (don't feel I know enough facts and figures to answer that myself)
Perhaps also a brief section on how the tiger effected the northern peace process? Seabhcan 11:28, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Thanks - I actually was thinking today of adding something on the North. You mentioned unemployment, crime or drugs in the inner city - I can't believe i've missed such an important area - i'll start work on it straight away (particularly about the Ballymun flats & and the regeneration project.) Any other quibbles - please let me know, I'd love to get this through FAC without any opposition! --CGorman 14:28, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Go for it! I made a couple of minor changes for FAC requirements. Filiocht 07:51, Oct 26, 2004 (UTC)

OK, im putting the article up now on WP:FAC - please support! CGorman 10:09, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Ire-stub

Someone suggested a while back the creation of an Irish stub notice, like the many others and I was one of the ones that opposed it, not knowing the existance of numerous others. Now that I think of it another way, though, it would give a handy automated list of Irish stubs to expand. What do people think? JOHN COLLISON [ Ludraman] 17:06, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Maps of Cities - again

move the dot using wiki code

I have recently been told of the format of maps used on the Welsh Wikipedia - a sample these are quite simple, the dot can be moved around as much as neccessary and thus a single map can be used to indicate any number of places (i.e. their are two images, a map and the dot). The current city maps are too inaccurate, require much time to process and check and they are not everyones ideal map. It is better to know the general location within Ireland rather than the boundaries within a county. This could be ideal to replace the city maps and as well could be applied to all county towns any ideas and input ? Djegan 19:29, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I have tested it in mozilla and iexplore and it looks fine except that tranparency does not work well in iexplore Djegan

In summary: A map showing the location of a city or town can be created, preferrably, using the county map and simply overlaying a dot on the location of the place. This avoids having to create map for every city or town and avoids the process of creating new maps. In addition the original county map remains unedited and can be used, if neccessary, for several towns. This should be used for all cities in Ireland, except Dublin, as these cities are quite small and it is difficult to get accurate maps. Djegan 21:47, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)

The maps need to be smaller, preferably half the size of your example. The information they impart to the article is needed (namely the location), but its importance is not such that it should eat valuable page real-estate. Plus if the map is small enough, it can be added to lesser town articles without drowning out their content or leaving no space for a photo. zoney ♣ talk 22:28, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
I am not keen on smaller maps at all - if we are to use a smaller map then a new Ireland map would be neccessary, shrinking the standard Ireland maps does not do it justice even with the inbuilt smoothing features in wikipedia. Either way a full map of Ireland is essential rather than county based as the feedback seams to confirm this (Irish wikipedians' (and other interested parties) please give your opinions as a good discussion is neccessary before any implementation!) Djegan 20:20, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)
How about a middle ground between the county-sized maps and a full sized map? Surely taking four quadrant maps and using whichever is appropriate will give enough contextual information about a town and its county, without taking up as much space as a similarly scaled map of all of Ireland. An extent of coastline and a few surrounding counties might be enough. AndrewH 09:16, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I have one some places in the new style of map: Dún Laoghaire, Swords, Tallaght - the three seats of local goverment of the new counties created in 1994. Djegan 14:21, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I have changed all the cities in the Republic of Ireland to correspond to this format, any comments? Djegan 22:17, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)
In the Dublin county ones, could the county boundary be made a bit heavier than the sub-divisions? Just a thought. AndrewH 09:18, 2 Nov 2004 (UTC)
County with location on island of Ireland
city within county
Map showing location of Cork city

The current maps take up far too much space. I agree that shrinking the current maps is not a suitable option. Ideally a map of the county with a locator within the island would be best. I've scratched together a quick demo, the county map is not properly redrawn - just roughly scaled up. It gets the point across. If this is suitable, then redrawn county maps can be added for each county. Perhaps the colours should be changed? (e.g. white background on county map). zoney ♣ talk 11:56, 2 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Zoney, this looks like the best possible solution IMHO. Filiocht 12:07, Nov 2, 2004 (UTC)

Economy of Ireland

I've been working away on this for the past week, like the Celtic Tiger article I intend to put it on WP:FAC, so could yee please proof-read it and make a few criticisims before I put it up on WP:FAC to help me reduce possible objections, thanks. CGorman 22:38, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Sorry for not responding sooner. I've done some copyediting and one edit for NPOV (fiasco ==> situation). I fear there may be some other POV concerns: can we, for example, back up statements like 'The efficiency of the train network is poor, with regular delays and overcrowding on major routes.' with some hard facts? Filiocht 12:57, Nov 2, 2004 (UTC)
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Irish_Wikipedians%27_notice_board&oldid=7060711"