Talk:Anti-English sentiment

I have cleared this discussion page since there has not been any more controversy since the article was rewritten, and the old comments could be misinterpreted as referring to the new page. Issues can be looked up in the history page in any case! Starpol 18:58, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Concerns about "racism" and "cultural superiority"

Hey there, since British people do not constitute a race, I don't think it makes sense to speak of anglophobia as "racism" towards them. Even if they did constitute a race, as the page on racism says, the notion of "reverse racism" is at best controversial. Also, stating that England is politically dominant in the British isles is acceptable, but that they're culturally dominant? Come on! Can we edit these two things out?

Macho Philipovich 19:45, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Well if you don't accept it as racism, why not xenophobia, which is much the same thing. Alun 19:11, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Well England is culturally dominant in the UK, everyone speaks English and whereas many English people may be uninformed as to the specifics of Welsh or Scottish culture, Welsh and Scottish people are more than au fait with English culture. I went to a Welsh language school in Wales and we studied Shakespeare and English poetry etc. Alun 17:07, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

And what does constitute a race? Maybe you should look at wiki's page on Race. There is no biological underpinning for the word, it's a purely cultural concept. 217.196.239.189 15:07, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Good point. Alun 17:07, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Celtophobia

Celtophobia is having a VfD. It's a stupid article, have a look at the talk page for my opinion, it's related to this article. Alun 19:11, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Sport

I removed the section about football hooliganism. This problem is a general one in football and is displayed by rival fans of all nations. It is not the Englishness of the fans that causes the violence, but the fact that they are the fans of any rival team. Alun 10:36, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Devolution

It is not explained in the text how this sentence is in any way related to anglophobia. I can see no relevance, I have not removed it but will in the near future if someone does not explain how it fits into the article. Devolution is a UK political phenomenon, the devolved assemblies/parliaments derive their authority from the UK Parliament and not from England, they include London, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. There was a referendum for an assembly in the North East of England in 2004 that failed.[1].
Devolution in the United Kingdom created new institutions in a significant constitutional change that established regional governments that would be able to legislate individually for members of the union, while maintaining its perceived benefits. Alun 10:36, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Orwell Quote

The quote itself says "Celtic nationalism is not the same thing as anglophobia", so what on earth is the point of quoting Orwell's attack on Celtic nationalism here? Rhion 12:00, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

It's a good point. Neither of the quotes (Bronte's or Orwell's) actually refer to Anglophiobia as a cultural phenomenon, as the introduction to the section implies. One quote merely refers to it in passing as anti-English sentiment, the other simply uses it to state that Celtic nationalism is not the same thing as anglophobia. It would make more sense if the section was simplified, and was just a list of literary quotes in which the word occurs. The introduction could dispense with the current wording and say something like Use of the word Anglophilia in literature. The quotes do not have to be so long either, these would do:

I read Anglophobia in your looks, and hear it in your words.

Welsh, Irish and Scottish nationalism have points of difference but are alike in their anti-English orientation....But Celtic nationalism is not the same thing as Anglophobia.

and I'm not sure the first section of the Orwell quote is absolutely necessary. Alun 12:44, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

USA

During the period of alliance between Britain and the USA, andglophobia took another form. Fleet Admiral Ernest King had been noted for his anglophobic views which affected his decision making during the Second Battle of the Atlantic.

So what were the decisions that were affected by his anglophobia?. If you don't give the decisions, and the reason why they are considered to be influences by anglophobia then this sentence, though referenced, serves no purpose. Alun 05:54, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

I felt that the sentance makes the reader aware of one important historic instance where anglophoabia may have played a part. The reasons are given in the article on Ernest King reached by the internal link. I didnt want to duplicate the same detail here.Starpol 21:01, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Fair enough, but it's a bit confusing, as the sentence reads, Anglophobia took another form, but we are left guessing what that other form actually is. The article on Ernest King is not much more illuminating, it just mentions a single decission might have been due to his Anglophobia, but it is not verified, and I have done a google to try to get some verification for this, but to no avail. Alun 00:48, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Intro

The statement that the term was coined in 18thC. America should appear in the intro along with the definition. And doesn't the definition (omitting the 'irrational' aspect of phobia) include attitudes that are perfectly reasonable and understandable?--Shtove 19:44, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

This article does need to be changed a bit. I would also re-think the deltion of the football hooliganism as although it is found in various other countries, England does have a particularly bad reputation for it, and violence surrounding football involving England fans often does not involve "hooligans" meaning the organised football firms that operate in every country but normal English people who are prone to disrespecting, offending and abusing others. The behaviour of English people abroad in general, and not just relating to football, has a reputation for being pretty awful. Benson85 17:13, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Neutrality and Accuracy Disputed

"England has historically overshadowed the international standing of Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and, at times, even the United Kingdom.[5] Consequently, Anglophobia within the UK is linked to England’s position as the politically and culturally dominant member of the union.[neutrality disputed] [6] As well as its aggressive and oppressive history towards Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland and arrogant attitude towards them in modern times."

Two points to make in relation to this:

1. Devolution has created a new power dynamic within the United Kingdom and some English people, such as the English Democrats, argue that Scottish MPs have more power than they should - and also point to the number of Scottish politicians occupying key positions in the British government.

2. What does this talk of arrogant attitudes relate to? Is this not in the eye of the beholder?

I think this entire article is a little too anecdotal - and contains some bias.

User:Anon 00:29, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Devolution is not relevant to anglophobia as a concept. Anglophobia is irrational, people only need excuses to be Anglophobic they do not need real reasons. You will also see that the reference is to history, are you disputing that England has historically overshadowed the other nations? This section is referenced, if you can find a reference for the other point of view (that England hasn't historically overshadowed the other nations) then they should be included. Your comments about Scottish politicians are irrelevant to this page, take them up on articles about devolution, though I would note that Scotland is part of the UK, so why shouldn't Scottish politicians be there, this is not the government of England, but of the UK. The sentence about arrogance has been removed, it has obviously been put there by someone who seems to be suffering from anglophobia themselves, it is not referenced.Alun 06:20, 25 August 2006 (UTC)