Talk:The Sword of Truth

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The Keeper

I don't think that the Keeper should be noted as a Satanic character. The series portrays the Keeper more as the yin to the Creators yang. He is a force that must exist in order for creation to survive as intended.

You are correct. But, it should also be noted that the people of the world who are less knowledgeable DO view the keeper as a satanic figure becuase of his undieing hunger for those who live. But yes, the Keeper is nothing more than a force opposite to the Creator. - Omnilord March 20, 2006

Removed sentence

I also believe it has something to do with Middle Eastern mythology, but nothing more.

first person - removed User:MyRedDice

Ideology of series

It can be noted that the series has become more ideologically conservative (or more apparently so) over time. This has become particually noticable in the Faith of the Fallen and Naked Empire books. There is however not enough content on the series to add this fact with out causing excessive non-NPOV distortion; if there was sufficient agreement on the observation anyway. - User:138.130.225.134 June 29, 2004

Goodkind would not agree with the view that his books have become more conservative...it has come up in interviews at times. The books are of course more right leaning than left. While the author's views are more libertarian than anything else...the books do seem to fit modern conservative viewpoints minus religion than a true libertarian view. - Athalus 17:25, Apr 20, 2005 (UTC)

Themes and Novels

After reviewing the page and discussing it with Terry, we felt that the page needs this addition. Please feel free to add to it. Time is limited to add more and apporiate material at this time mystar 68.188.220.8

You're right, this is a useful section. I will revise and expand it when I have a bit of free time. - Runch 03:58, 25 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

At the moment, it breached NPOV in about every second word. Also, juding from some of the other edits by this IP/User, I'm not entirely sure that we should assume good faith. So I removed the section for the moment.-- Mystman666 ^(Talk) 19:44, 25 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I added a noncompliant tag to the Themes section as it contains statements and claims that are unsourced, original research and POV. Examples:

"...in stark contrast to this genera's reputation for failing heroes"
"Goodkind's characters books show the moral truth to society’s decay unlike many other authors in the genre"

This is not a soapbox for Terry Goodkind, it doesn't matter what he thinks should be added, this is an encyclopedia, not a free autobiographical web hosting service. This section needs to be cleaned up and the wording changed or third party sources added or it will be deleted. NeoFreak 02:23, 26 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

To be quite honest, I'm getting sick and tired of you acting recklessly and in bad faith, Mystar. I've already told you before NOT to delete any discussion from the talk page, certainly not when it is relevant to the article, and again you go and delete multiple of my posts as well as another's. I've restored it, so just leave it there. - Runch 03:25, 26 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I've no clue as to what your on about. I've deleted nothing from the discussion page. I did revert my earlier edit. I added a Themes and Novels section to which you stated and I quote, ":You're right, this is a useful section. I will revise and expand it when I have a bit of free time. - Runch 03:58, 25 August 2006 (UTC)" So now you have changed your mind?[reply]

The section is useful. It is also something we see on many other fantasy series’ pages.

Just because I've discussed it with Goodkind doesn’t make it "his soap box". He has a voice as well as you or I. The Themes and Novels is an encyclopedia section, and has every right t to be on this page. If you seem to think it hasn't, then it should also be removed from every other authors and series page as well. You cannot have a double standard or you have anarchy. mystar 68.188.220.8 05:13, 26 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Technically you are incorrect. Anarchy is known for no standards. A better comparison would be to say monarchy, despotism, perhaps communism in it's applied use (which was really pretty much despotism). In those cases, some people got a bunch of stuff, and everyone else got shafted with lower quality goods and different treatment. Which is also what you're going for here, you are saying that your opinion should win out, while everyone else's is not worth keeping. Specifically because you have Terry Goodkind's ear doesn't mean that you get to be the only one to write stuff about the books. Don't you think the fact that a whole bunch of people disagree with you, and not a single person is on your side for this edit, might indicate that you're heaidn in the worng direction with this one? Maybe? And saying that Goodkind shines is an opinion, therefore not neutral. And sayin ghtat Goodkind's books say something moral about today's society without a reference to some sort of comparative literature is just an opinion. And saying that the entire genre has a reputation for failing heroes is a bit much, isn't it? How about a source saying the genre has a reputation for failing heros. Actually, the wikipedia says the genre features brave heros, not failing. Admittedly not a perfect source, since you could go in and put a sentence saying it's full of failing ones, but still, that's what it says right now.

64.230.3.111 20:56, 26 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Oh..btw... Why then are you singeling out Goodkind's Sword of Truth page's addition of Theams and Novels stateing it to be "NPOV" when ASOFAI has the exact same thing... I don't see you taking action there? I quote from A Sone of Fire and Ice "==Themes of the novels== The books are known for complex characters, sudden and often violent plot twists, and intricate political intrigue. In a genre where magic usually takes center stage, this series has a reputation for its limited and subtle use of magic, employing it as an ambiguous and often sinister background force.

The novels are narrated from a very strict third person limited omniscient perspective, the chapters alternating between different point of view characters. The first volume uses a false protagonist; Martin has a reputation of not being afraid to kill any character, no matter how major, unlike many other authors in the genre".

So what gives?

mystar68.188.220.8 05:17, 26 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure where but we are having a breakdown in communication somewhere. As I've already stated the problem isn't with the section itself but the tone, content and lack of sources. You just put up a section where you stated your (and Terry Goodkind's) opinion on his series which is not allowed on wikipedia. Period. If you have an interview or a critic's review by a un-biased third party that covers the theme of the novels then great, put it in and source it. If not then putting in original research and your personal opinion is not allowed.

Terry Goodkind doesn't get to get his friends to come in and write an encylopedic artilce about him and his books the way he wants. Could you imagine if (not to compare Goodkind character to any of these people) Bush, Stalin, Poe, or Alexander the Great could come in a write their own articles? That would be anarchy and defeat the entire purpose.

Finally I'm not talking about ASOIAF, I'm addressing a problem here in the manner it is supposed to be: on the discussion page. If you have any issues with the ASOIAF pages or any of its sources then by all means go to those pages, raise your issue on the Talk page and the editors there will address your issues. That is how it works and I hope to see you engaging in a constructive dialouge about ASOIAF in the Talk page. NeoFreak 05:25, 26 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I second NeoFreak's points. And as a corollary, check your edit history Mystar, you did delete two of my posts as well as a post by Mystman666. The post that you quoted in your tirade was deleted by you, except that I had already restored it by the time you got around to posting a reply. Perhaps it was carelessly deleted, or perhaps it was done maliciously; either way, you need to pay attention to what you're doing. - Runch 14:12, 26 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sword of Truth Characters

So I've noticed that there is a preponderance of pages on characters in the Sword of Truth. Unfortunately, nearly all of these pages are for characters in the first two novels of the series. Consequently, characters of almost no importance from Wizard's First Rule have extensive descriptions while major characters from later novels receive miniscule attention (such as Nathan Rahl and Emperor Jagang) or have no character page at all (such as Berdine, Raina, etc.). A (presumably up to date) list of current character pages is located at Category:Sword of Truth characters.

Essentially, what we need is for several collaborators to take upon themselves the (monumental) task of creating pages for the major missing characters in the series and updating the pages for the existing major characters so as to be representative of their actions throughout the whole series. I would love to help in this task, but seeing as I haven't read the majority of the novels in several years, I don't feel qualified to do most of the work. If anybody is interested in collaborating on this project, though, let me know, as I'll definitely be willing to help by revising, editing, formatting, and doing all the minor tasks associated with major rewrites. Leave me a message on my talk page! - Runch 01:09, 8 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I like it how theres a bigger section for Samuel than there is for Jagang.

Wikipedia:WikiProject Novels

On another note, I've been working hard on revising the pages of the individual books in the Sword of Truth series to conform to WikiProject Novels standards, and I have to say most of the pages are looking pretty good. However, the pages for Naked Empire, Phantom, and Debt of Bones are still in stub status and need attention.

Since Phantom has yet to be released, stub status is expected. But, if you have recently read either Naked Empire or Debt of Bones, consider updating the Plot Summaries and Character Lists on the novel pages. Thanks for your help! - Runch 01:09, 8 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Phantom is looking good. Thanks to all those who have contributed! - Runch 03:58, 25 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sword of Truth Miniseries Announced

Recently I found out that Sam Raimi, the director of the Spider-Man movies, has gotten Goodkind's consent to begin planning a Sword of Truth miniseries, similar to the one made recently about the "Dune" series. The series would begin production sometime next year. I don't know at what point that news items like this should be added to the article, but I wanted to point it out. I've only got very limited experience at editing Wiki pages so it probably wouldn't be a good idea for me to start it. Just putting it on the table. Thanks! - Blitzrhenzai 22:38, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The related information will make its way into the article shortly. There are other things going on, and I don't think the details have been passed down the grape vine yet, atleast not to me. As soon as the information is passed along, Mystar will make sure appropriate attention is given to this topic. Omnilord August 1, 2006