Talk:Milwaukee

ATTENTION: I am a writer with Milwaukee Magazine doing a piece about the wikipedia entry of "Milwaukee." I'm interested in hearing from anybody who has participated on this entry over the years. Please contact me via email at kathryn.pelech@milwaukeemagazine.com, if you're interested.

Very Best, Katie Pelech Milwaukee Magazine

Population Question

This article lists the city as the 22nd largest in the U.S., while the Wisconsin article lists it as the 19th, is this an error? Is it by population or by size? Clavette 19:14, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

It is an error. Since the 2004 census estimate, the city has been 22nd in population. Prior to that, it was 19th (after the 2000 census). The Wisconsin article should be changed. --Polemick 23:01, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

But how is it an error? That is an estimate, not a positive figure The Person Who Is Strange 20:18, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Crime

I think it should be granted consideration that a crime section be added, mainly because of the hihg-profile and violent crimes that have occurred in the past few years, as well as the need to inform people that these crimes are anomolies and that Milwaukee's crime rate is relatively average for cities of its size.

Actually, I think we should remove the crime section, for the very reason that Milwaukee doesn't really have that much of a crime problem. Milwaukee does not rate among the 25 most dangerous cities, and most other city articles do not include a "crime" section. There are two other considerations here: the crimes that occur in Milwaukee are not all that high profile. It might seem like that to those living in Wisconsin, but these crimes receive almost no national coverage. If I didn't read jsonline every day, I wouldn't hear almost anything about Milwaukee (I now live in Phoenix). There have only been a few cases that receive media attention (Charlie Young beating and that guy who was supposedly ambushed but was really buying drugs), and despite the fact that the New York Times covered Milwaukee in a recent crime article, people don't really associate Milwaukee with crime (at least people outside of Wisconsin don't). Besides, read CNN every day and you'll start to see that every city has some negative crime story eventually.

And there is another reason for not mentioning crime. Although the person above has good intentions (by trying to state that the recent crimes are anomolies), that is not how people's minds work (and I study these things). If you were walking down the street one day and ran into me, what would you think if I said "Hi! My name is Nick. You might have heard that I'm a horrible child molester, but really my sexual desire for children is no different than that of most people my age." That's not a way to make a good impression, and listing details about Milwaukee crimes (when there are similar crimes in all major cities) is no way to leave readers with a good impression of Milwaukee. -Nick^talk 21:42, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Well, the edit does actually address the fact that Milwaukee is not as dangerous as many people think. That is the reason I included it, because of the negative national attention of recent crimes. As for other cities not having a crie section, that is just not true. Chicago and Baltimore both have crime sections, and I found those two after a minute of searching.

Actually, you missed the point of my post entirely. The crime section as it is written will not make people feel Milwaukee is less dangerous than they had originally thought. There was only very limited media attention paid to Milwaukee, and similar crimes in other cities are regularly covered by the national media. Also, I claimed that "most cities" do not have a crime section, and if you keep searching, you will find that to be true. The cities that do have a crime section (Chicago, Baltimore, New Orleans, St Louis, Detroit) typically have a very high crime rate.

But if we are to keep the crime section, then it needs substantial re-writing. The first paragraph generally needs an improved writing style, and there are aspects of it that can be deleted. A source needs to be cited for the "several more beatings occurred" claim. I am aware of only one more--the one mentioned in the section. The second paragraph contains inaccuracies: the crime rates appear to be mixed up in some way. It is written that Milwaukee had "only" 88 murders in 2005 (which I believe is untrue), but later on the 2005 murder rate is referred to as a "spike." These statements contradict one another, and I will have to delete this paragraph until we get the stats correct. -Nick^talk 17:53, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

The 2004 murders totaled 88 and the spike occured in 2005. I don't know if this was a typo but those are facts that can be easily attained and reputed. As for the crime paragraph, I am happy with it's position within the demographics section.

no, i completely agree that the Crime section should be removed. you do not have this for all other major cities and, as Nick points out, Milwaukee is not in the top 25 cities in regards to worst crime rates. remove the Crime section. -mm

Population Concerns

I question the accuracy of the 2005 population estimate of 592,765. As much as I wish this were the case, as far as I know the Census has not come out with a 2005 estimate for municipalities yet. If it came from a source other than the census, I think we should question the authenticity of that report, as they are often inaccurate and not official.

Don't worry, I am pretty sure they have come out with one. And sign your name with four tildes. The Person Who Is Strange 20:21, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

 I HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION: there are new estimates by the World Gazzetteer about metro population estimates. As you can see here, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Largest_metropolitan_areas_in_the_Americas

the Milwaukee-Waukesha-West Allis population is estimated at 1,753,355. I think this figure should be used as it is a more recent estimate than the u.s. census bureau's. if nobody objects, i'll change it. --134.48.241.76 16:58, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Recent Edit

I recently made three edits that were reverted without explanation: 1) "bubbler" is used in Milwaukee, but also in various other locations (Read the article on Bubblers), and therefore it is not "rarely heard anywhere else." 2) ATM's is incorrect punctuation--it should be ATMs (see Strunk & White) 3) This is an encyclopedia article. Some song played by some guy in Chicago that parodies a local saying (ainahey) is not appropriate. And, by the way, I've never heard anyone in Milwaukee say "ainahey." -Nick 19:47, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

I agree with the points above... although I've never heard anyone say "ainahey," I did talk to someone who said it was more common back in the day. A brief mention of the phrase (as the edit stands) should be sufficient. 72.131.44.247 21:40, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Your "explanation" for deleting was sarcastic and condescending. My silence in reverting it was every bit as appropriate as your "explanation". But since it's your pet page, I'll leave it be, ainahey. Wahkeenah 00:12, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

I apologize--I didn't mean to seem condescending. I was a bit upset that some edits I made were just reverted without any explanation. Nick 00:54, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

10-4. Wahkeenah 01:05, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

I was born and raised in Milwaukee (left at 18 in 1985) - I heard "ainahey" in Bay View a fair bit.

German roots

I am currently working on a reportage on german emmigrants for a local newspaper in the "Westerwald" area. I am looking for information on immigrants to Milwaukee. A whole village named "Sespenrod" near Heilberscheid went in 1853 to the USA. Since i am quite new to genealogy i am happy for any kind of information, e.g. contacts in Milwaukee. I am looking for descendants in particular, that might have diaries/photographs or other kind of memories on their roots. Thanks for your help, you can contact me at bastian@abwesend.de

Okay, this was a pretty sad entry. I added some information about the economy and the local cultural attractions, including summerfest and the museum (yes, yes, fellow Milwaukee people, I realize that "culture" is a relative term). I moved the section on the interstate highways to geography, and deleted the section on the street layout being "the same as Chicago" since it did not seem relevant to any topic, and clicking on it went to a blank page. Whoever put that in is more than welcome to return it to its old place, but should at least describe the layouts of Milwaukee's streets and compare it to Chicago's. This article could still use more info, especially on the city itself, its architecture (Cream City Brick, the Allen Bradley Tower, etc.), and its history. --Goodoldpolonius 02:13, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Demographics

The section lists that the population of Milwaukee is about 50% White. It also says that 38% of Milwaukeeans have German descent, 12.7% have Polish, 10% Irish, 5%English, 4% Italian 4%French. How can Milwaukee be 50 % White when that these number combined equal about 70%. There is a descrepency in these numbers. Maybe it means that some Causcasions lists multiple descents.

It is exactly that some people list multiple descents. One could have grandparents who are Polish, German, Irish and Italian. --mtz206 June 29, 2005 02:07 (UTC)

Festivals

Hey Psients. Drive to Chicago and ask people about the city of festivals and see if anyone knows what the hell you are talking about. Outside of Milwaukee, noone cares.

To 'Outside of Milwaukee'...

Maybe you don't realize that Summerfest is the biggest music festival in the world. The world. They will know what the hell you're talking about in Chicago, sir. --WikiFan04 16:02, 11 Feb 2005 (CST) P.S. Please get a user name, mister.

What I meant was that noone knows Milwaukee as the "city of festivals". Other cities have the equivalent of Summerfest. For example St. Louis has Fair St. Louis which attracts about 100,000 people each day. Message left by 131.151.103.121 (originally unsigned)

Milwaukee has long called itself the "City of Festivals." Whether or not someone from Chicago or St. Louis knows that isn't really an issue for the article to cover. (Can we try to keep this a bit more civil?) Cheers. --BaronLarf 18:07, May 24, 2005 (UTC)

While other cities have large festivals, Summerfest (a) is a music festival, (b) also attracts about 100,000 people per day and (c) runs for 11 days (as opposed to larger but shorter festivals). In addition to summerfest, the "city of festivals" moniker refers to the many weekend-long ethnic festivals held over the summer, with many of them having attendance in the 200,000-300,000 range. While other cities do have similar events, none that I have found have as many as Milwaukee. The festivals are an important part of Milwaukee, and do make Milwaukee unique. Nick 19:51, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

Oh, yeah--and to that end, I vote for adding a short paragraph describing the festivals. Nick 19:57, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

Kinda like the US has a World Series, but in reality, it isn't, eh? Tell you what, do yourself a favour, take a trip to Europe (or the UK, for that matter) and we'll discuss the numerous "summer festivals" held here. As for "ethnic", I won't comment, as it should be fairly evident.

I added a subsection called Festivals and wrote a short paragraph. There's a lot of room for expansion there, and I think we should even put in a chart with dates and locations. It's a start, any way.

I also think we should mention Jazz in the Park in either the Social Life, Festivals, or Music section. In fact, maybe those three should all be combined under Culture or something? Ozmodiar.x 06:15, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Street Layout similar to Chicago

In Milwaukee, they also have a numbering system like in Chicago. Fairview Avenue and Howell Ave are Base Lines. How does their numbering system differ from the Chicago Numbering System?

A better question is, how does Chicago's Numbering System differ from Milwaukee's Numbering System? --WikiFan04 16:05, 11 Feb 2005 (CST)

Metion of the city's street layout relative to some other city seems wholly unnecessary. --michael zimmer 00:55, Feb 12, 2005 (UTC)

Here's how Milwaukee's (and the county's) baselines work; they're not exactly "lines", especially around the downtown area.

• the line running north-south (dividing, say, E. Silver Spring Dr. and W. Silver Spring Dr.) is primarily based on 1st St. on the north side, the baseline is N. 1st St. extended from Capitol Dr. south to the Milwaukee River, then continues as the Milwaukee River until the river bends east to the lake, which is where S. 1st St. picks up. the line then continues as S 1st. St. until it intersects with S. Chase Ave., and continues on Chase until that intersects with S. Howell Ave. The line remains S. Howell Ave. all the way through Oak Creek and the end of Milwaukee County. North of Capitol Dr. extending into Whitefish Bay and the other north suburbs, the baseline follows an extended line of N. 1st St., including N. Lydell Ave. (south of the Milwaukee River), N. Bay Ridge Ave. (north of Hampton Ave.), N. Seneca Ave (north of Cardinal Stritch University/Green Tree Rd.). the baseline becomes a little less tangible north of Brown Deer Rd., but still exists (an obvious manifestation of this being Ravine Baye Rd., which is divided into W. Ravine Baye Rd. and E. Ravine Baye Rd. without having a cross street to speak of). It essentially ends at the Milwaukee-Ozaukee county border.
• the line running east-west (and dividing, e.g., N. 16th St. and S. 16th St.) starts with its east end on Lake Michigan at the harbor entrance, continues up the Milwaukee River and branches off onto the Menomonee River. it then branches off at W. Canal St., becomes a little fuzzy through the I-91/US-41 split and Miller Park area until W. Fairview Ave., where it continues along W. Fairview Ave. and its extended line (W. Hawthorne Ave., the small W. Fairview Ave at S. Curtis Rd./N. 121st St., the various segments of Golf Pkwy.) until it dissolves somewhere in Brookfield (definitively ending at Barker Rd.) when people must have noticed that they weren't in Milwaukee County anymore and didn't have to worry about north-south designations. --Tape 04:02, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

That's not 100% true. The lines are correct, but the statement about where it ends is iffy. (Mostly because where it ends is also iffy.) Only the City of Milwaukee proper is bound to the numbering system, and as such, anyone else using them is optional. I know that South Milwaukee, for example, uses both the S and E street prefixes and the numbering system. Greendale, on the otherhand, also inside Milwaukee County, uses just the numbering system for most streets (for example: 5627 Broad St.), and street prefixes mostly for streets that lead out of Greendale (S 76th, W Loomis, etc.) Also, in Waukesha county, W. Glengarry? In any case, this article is on the city Milwaukee, I think just leaving our any references to suburbs would be most appropriate. -slowpokeiv 18:15, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

I know this topic is dead, but if anyone cares to know... there are three basic types of street naming systems:

• The New York scheme, which calls for numbering all of the streets. Directional runs are distinguished using "avenue" and "street". It is an orderly numbering system but lacks any character.

• The complementary Boston scheme, which uses only place names. This system is common in street layouts that lack a grid pattern. It is a naming system with character but lacks any logical order.

• Finally there is the Philadelphia scheme, which is a combination of the New York and Boston schemes. Streets are numbered in one direction and named in the other. It has some numerical order and some character.

The present Milwaukee street system uses the Philadelphia scheme. The north/south and east/west baselines (which are a lot simpler and logical than it's made out to be above) and numbering system, were realized by the City Engineers' office... hence the elegance in its simplicity.

Various commissions were created over the years to clean up the duplicate street names (from all of the different municipalities) and eliminate confusing sounding ones... when all of the hard work was done by these commissions and the City Engineer, the Common Council stepped in to assume responsibility. This includes naming rights, which frequently reflect names of "friends", family members, and other aldermen. Ordinance initially dictated that all like street runs have the same name to avoid confusion, but that has fallen by the wayside. A good example of this is 3rd Street, Old World Third Street, and Martin Luther King Drive.

My understanding is that all of the municipalities in Milwaukee County followed the recommendations made by the various commissions, and all currently work with each other to maintain street naming integrity. There was a lot of give and take on all sides, as evident by many of Milwaukee's far south side streets following Cudahy's and South Milwaukee's names for like runs. 24.211.0.91 01:31, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Neighborhoods

It seems that we're now adding descriptions of all the various neighborhoods to the article. I don't know what the standard is for other articles for major cities, but perhaps it would be better to create separate articles for each neighborhood and include the descriptive text in each of those. --mtz206 19:56, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC)

If the neighborhood merits a seperate article, then they should be created. But right now, it just seems like the descriptions are limited to two to three sentences, tops; not something that really needs to be broken out yet, in my opinion. See: Houston, Texas#Metropolitan area. But if you feel bold enough to create articles with more information in them, please, by all means do so. --BaronLarf 20:42, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC)

When I rewrote this section earlier today, I was mostly aiming at just reducing the inane remarks and somewhat-racist overtones the previous version had to it... though don't think the neighborhoods need anything more than the one or two sentence descriptions some of them have attached at all (if even *that* much). Anthony Dean 00:20, Jun 22, 2005 (UTC)

Yes, and thank you for making the changes you did. I meant to say "good job" on your user talk page, but it fell through the cracks. --BaronLarf 01:18, Jun 22, 2005 (UTC)

You're welcome. :-) Anthony Dean 03:01, Jun 25, 2005 (UTC)

I feel that both Neighborhoods and Notable denizens should be moved off to their own sub-pages (might reduce the racially charged profiling), and more focus placed on History and Geography. Admittedly, I don't have the time right now to research for those sections. —Anonymous user 24.211.7.42

I've moved the Notable denizens to List of Milwaukeeans. Neighborhoods coule be moved, too, but I don't see how moving them would stop the racist language. Cheers.--BaronLarf June 30, 2005 03:17 (UTC)

Notable Denziens: Deidre Hall

I reverted back to include Deidre Hall. Anonymous user 24.211.7.42's comment that "If we start listing 'common' actors and musicians this could go on forever" is invalid. It is not up to one user to determine who a "common" actor might be. IMO, Deidre Hall is "notable" given that she has been on Days of Our Lives for nearly 30 years and is quite well known. --mtz206 18:37, Jun 26, 2005 (UTC)

I have no problem with including any citzen that is wikipedia-worthy to a list. But, if we start to get a large enough list, I am in favor of moving it to its own article, with a prominent link from this article. --BaronLarf 18:55, Jun 26, 2005 (UTC)

Agreed. --mtz206 19:03, Jun 26, 2005 (UTC)

I disagree. My favorite actress is Heather Graham but you don't see me listing her. How about Gene Wilder, or Jerry Harrison, or Bob Uecker? This list could get quite long. -- Anonymous user 24.211.7.42, 19:12, Jun 26, 2005 (UTC)

Excluding the names of people who are worthy of inclusion into Wikipedia in a list of citizens based upon personal opinion is the pushing of ones own POV.--BaronLarf 19:31, Jun 26, 2005 (UTC)

Very well, lets start down that road. -- Anonymous user 24.211.7.42

I like your enthusiasm, but the point is not to "start down that road," but instead to craft a useful encyclopedic article on Milwaukee, including its noteworthy denizens. I also suggest you create an account. --mtz206 21:48, Jun 26, 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia in Milwaukee Magazine

Hi all. I was recently interviewed by Katie (User:Milmag, see her comment at the top) at Milwaukee Magazine, and Wikipedia will soon be the topic of an article in that magazine. Milwaukee Magazine has a fairly large readership, so it'd be cool if we could improve Milwaukee, Wisconsin and Wisconsin by the time the article goes to print. Katie said, "As of now it's slated to run in the City Guide, which hits newsstands in late May and stays through the summer. But I'm pushing for more space, which means it might end up in the regular June issue of the magazine." So we have a little time, but let's get to work! Cheers, all. --Fang Aili 21:02, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Milwaukee flag needed

We need a useable Flag of Milwaukee. The current one will probably be deleted soon. I searched the internet for a .gov source or something non-copyright, but found none. Can anyone help? --Fang Aili 20:03, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Citation style

I was bold and started using the meta:cite citation style recommended at Wikipedia:What is a featured article?. I'm using that as well as Wikipedia:Cite sources/example style to guide my citations. Asthma, a featured article, uses this citation style, so that can give you a feel for what it's like. Also, Seattle, Washington is a city that's a featured article, so that can give us some ideas of what a city featured article looks like. --Fang Aili 19:23, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Music section

I've never been happy with the two paragraphs that address the music scene. Many of the bands/clubs/djs are not really known outside Milwaukee. I'm all for promoting local music, but I'm not sure that this article is the place. Perhaps we can trim this section way down and start a "Milwaukee Music" page? -Nick^talk 23:21, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Looks ok to me, though it could use some cleaning up and elimination of redlinks. The couple (blue)links I clicked on looked like notable enough people. The Seattle page has pretty decent converage of its musical history. I don't know about The Rave, but The Pabst is definitely notable. Who/what specifically shouldn't be there, Nick? Thanks for your input! --Fang Aili 23:41, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

I did a quick edit of the music section, mostly changing the writing style. It still needs a few more fixes, perhaps I'll get to them in a bit. Let me know if you approve. -Nick^talk 19:51, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

I like it. Fewer red links and better written! --Fang Aili 17:02, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Unique History

I'm afraid I'm not well-versed enough in MKE history to write a section with appropriate references, but there is no mention in the article of the 'uniqueness' of Milwaukee's diagonal bridges. This is an extremely interesting part of the history of Milwaukee and I think would be very helpful to be on this page. If someone has a little more knowledge and could maybe point me in the right direction to write a section, I would be happy to do that as well. Thanks.--PaddyM 00:54, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

From this site: "In 1845, Milwaukee consisted of two settlements ruled by two cantankerous pioneers, on opposite sides of the Milwaukee River. As Kilbourntown and Juneautown grew, competition did, too. Byron Kilbourn deliberately set his streets askew from those in Solomon Juneau's settlement, just across the Milwaukee River. When Juneau built a bridge anyway, Kilbourn knocked it down overnight. Eventually, civic order was imposed, but a grid never was. That explains the strange angles of some downtown bridges today." This needs to be re-written to avoid copy vio before inserted into the article. --mtz206 03:08, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes, my books contain similar info. Though I think Walker's Point was established by then, too. --Fang Aili 04:17, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

A google search for "Milwaukee bridge war" (no quotes) will yield good results. An information board along the Milwaukee Riverwalk sets the tone and sums it up nicely... 72.131.44.247 06:29, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Milwaukee's Bridge War The three original founders of Milwaukee each led separate settlements, with the Milwaukee River serving as the key border between them. Solomon Juneau's Juneautown was on the east, Byron Kilbourn's Kilbourntown on the west and George Walker's Walker's Point on the south. The rivalry between Juneautown and Kilbourntown for settlers and development was particularly bitter. Kilbourn deliberately arranged the street grids on the west so they would never match the grids across the river, causing downtown bridges to cross at an angle to this day. In May, 1845, hostilities between the two settlements flared into violence. Bridges were dismantled, shots were fired, and more than a few noses were bloodied. The infamous incident, now known as the "Bridge War," helped power a movement to unite the three settlements. A charter signed on January 31, 1846, unified Juneautown, Kilbourntown and Walker's Point as the City of Milwaukee. Solomon Juneau was elected the city's first mayor.

It should be noted that it was the Milwaukee/Menomonee river confluence, not just the Milwaukee River, which divided all three settlements. Back then the (current) harbor opening and Menomonee River estuary were mostly marshland. 72.131.44.247 06:36, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Tram?

Is a tram (the Milwaukee Connector?) really in the "planning stages"? Has a decision been made to actually build such a system? It has been a few years since I lived in Milwaukee, but the last I remember this was still under great debate, and not quite "planned." If the gov't is actually building this, then it's fine. But if it is still debated whether it should even exist, I think a better phrasing would be something like "The construction of a commuter tram system is currently under consideration" --mtz206 15:14, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

According to their FAQ, yet another "study was launched in October, 2003" and "the system could be under construction by 2008 and completed by late 2009." [1] 72.131.44.247 18:07, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Milwaukee–Waukesha–West Allis?

I've never heard it refered to as "Milwaukee–Waukesha–West Allis metropolitan area". It's always "the greater Milwaukee area". Thoughts? If anything, I think "Milwaukee–Waukesha–West Allis" is just too wordy. And Milwaukee is obviously the largest city in the area. --Fang Aili 14:43, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Another point-- about 22,000 Google hits for "Milwaukee–Waukesha–West Allis"; 168,000 hits for "Greater Milwaukee Area". --Fang Aili 21:46, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

"Milwaukee-Waukesha-West Allis" is an official Census Bureau designation for the Metropolitan Statistical Area (MSA) centered around Milwaukee. Since Milwaukee's MSA consists of Milwaukee, Ozaukee, Washington, and Waukesha counties, the official MSA title uses the names of the most-populous municipalities. More detailed explanations, and different break-downs of other Census-defined areas can be found at the Census Bureau's website: http://www.census.gov

Terms like "Greater Milwaukee Area" are not really "official" in any capacity (at least not to the Census Bureau), and so they are considered more informal and sometimes even pretty vague in terms of definition. 172.149.127.33 20:02, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Original entry

Just for historical interest (and grins and giggles) this is the original entry for Milwaukee. We've come a long way, haven't we? --Fang Aili 17:54, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm curious why you felt my GPL'd image of the MAM was a throwaway? I had made a point of filling that request for WikiProject Wisconsin. 72.131.44.247 23:57, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

I just thought the other image is closer-up and brighter. It's not mine; I found it on Commons. --Fang Aili 00:11, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

That's fine.. only reaffirms why some people never bother to contribute anything substantial to the page. 72.131.44.247 00:37, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

I don't understand your comment. It looks like lots of people have been contributing substantially to this article lately. --Fang Aili 14:29, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Boil Water Advisory

Is Milwaukee currently under a boil water advisory? If so, that is news to me. Maybe I just haven't checked the page in a while, but this seems a little outdated since the cryptosporidium outbreak was in '93. Can anyone set me straight on this?PaddyM 02:01, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Definitely not. The crypto thing has been over for years and years. --Fang Aili ^說嗎? 03:36, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Why is Crime info in the race section?

I removed the following paragraph from the "Race and Religion" section of the article:

Crime disproportionately affects many of the city's racial minorites, as many tend to live in higher-crime, low-income neighborhoods characterized by robust gang activity and a strong drug trade. Other issues, such as an underperforming school district and accusations of racially motivated discrimination on the part of the police make race a perennially contentious issue in the city. For example, when Arthur Jones became the first African-American police chief of Milwaukee in 1996, there were accusations that he only received the job because of his race. However, Jones was fired from the department by the city council in 2003 after years of escalating crime. He sued the city for racial discrimination after his firing, but lost. His replacement, sparking another controversy, was white.

No matter what one's opinions are about the link between crime and race, they shouldn't be under the same heading in an encyclopedia article. There is the ongoing debate over the "crime" section, and if someone wants create a well-written non-inflammatory crime section, go ahead. Also, the anecdote about the police chief is unnecessary. These types of incidents happen all the time all over the country. -Nick^talk 04:34, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Agreed --Shawn 06:02, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

I talked it over with Nick, and we agreed that the information should be presented somewhere. I added much of it back in, hopefully with less POV. I didn't know where to put it, so I tacked it onto the end of the history section. Feel free to edit it, subdivide it, move it, whatever you feel is appropriate, I'm not emotionally attached to the section or anything. RyanGerbil10 21:47, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Colloquialisms

Although I don't agree with the one about telling people we live near Chicago, I have to admit that the saying "Up North" is fairly common. Obviously my own personal story is anecdotal, but if I were to ask anyone where, for example, the Dells, is, they will invariably respond "Up North". I'm not saying keep it in, but something to think about. --PaddyM 00:58, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

The Chicago saying seems to be something that a Chicagoan inserted. And while "Up North" is commonly used, it also seems to be inserted with somewhat a derogatory phrasing, plus it isn't necessarily unique or exclusive to Milwaukee. --mtz206 01:19, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

I disagree, while we do say "Up North", but it isn't confined to only Milwaukee. Likewise, I never say I'm going up North when I head out to Crawford County, Wisconsin. --Shawn 02:42, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

I'd like any claims like these to be sourced before appearing in the article. I've never heard of the Chicago thing. I tell people I'm from Milwaukee, and if they don't know where that is, I'll say it's near Chicago. I might say "up north" for a place that's actually north, but not for, say, Madison. "Up north" to me implies a woods-y, nature feel, somplace north where one goes to hunt or fish. (I don't even know where the Dells are; I've never been there.) I agree with Mtz206 about the somewhat derogatory phrasing and it not being Milwaukee-specific. --Fang Aili ^說嗎? 02:49, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm not saying it should be back in, but just something to think about. It is definitely something you'll hear everyday, and although I agree with you and mtz . . . ok, I got nothin' at this point except that I love going "up north" when I get the chance. (You really don't know where the Dells are and you've been in MKE for 20 years? You need to take a road trip :)...) --PaddyM 02:55, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, not saying I was disagreeing with you, just speaking my piece. :) I think I went to the Dells once when I was a kid, but I don't remember in which direction we travelled... :) --Fang Aili ^說嗎? 03:00, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

I think it's safe to say that Milwaukee, and Wisconsin in general is not the only home to the phrase "going up north." And i think we're all on the same page here. (maybe we should include an article about how the airport call letters are MKE, because that's notable... --Shawn 03:12, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

I took out 'aina' as it is not a local colloquialism. If any place at all, it might belong on the Cudahy page, if any at all. --PaddyM 20:59, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Cream City Text

Hello, I was the one that added the info about the Cream City Nickname. I live in Milwaukee so I know about it but here is a source for more info...[Click here for more info.]

Photo

Is it possible to crop that new image so the focal point is not a picnic table? --mtz206 (talk) 01:38, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Better? I cropped the picnic tables out and some bushes(Im bad at pix so it happens sometimes). --adamb10 22 June 2006

Cool. I owe you a Sprecher. :) --mtz206 (talk) 02:15, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree with the first opinion, but with different reasoning. The current photo resembles a lighthouse. I have a night pic of the skyline of Milwaukee; I'll put that in. And Sprechers are good. Vote on the pics. The Person Who Is Strange 20:24, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

OK, heres one. File:MilwaukeeNight1.jpg

... and another... File:MilwaukeeNight2.jpg

I have to vote for the first one. It looks more urban. -Nick^talk 05:18, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Nice photos, but I vote for neither right now because they do not specify their source in the description. HollyAm 03:57, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Good point. They look like scans, possibly from books? Until there is source info, these images may be deleted. -Nick^talk 04:46, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

They are quite grainy... looks like dark noise. People seemed to like the "Dozen Distinctive Destinations" night photo so I may try my hand at something similar. Sulfur 22:51, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

-why not just use the dozen distinctive destinations image? you could reference their website and the photographer with it.

I put the dozen distinctive destinations photo on the page a while ago; it credited the author, and was licensed as "copyrighted, fair use" as the photo was part of a press release. A wikipedia admin switched the photo in favor of one that was freely licensed. We can either get the author of that photo to release it under GFDL, or have someone take a similar photo. -Nick^talk 23:17, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Whatever we do, we need to replace this one. It's neither a terribly good photo nor an informative representation of the city. --Chancemichaels 00:11, 25 July 2006 (UTC)Chancemichaels

i just posted a new photo that i took this weekend with my digital camera from mckinley marina. --Maximilian77 17:17, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Well done. --MichaelZimmer (talk) 17:22, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Nice shot of the skyline, but the city's a little dark for me. Good composition, doesn't show enough of the city. But much, much closer. --Chancemichaels 13:41, 27 July 2006 (UTC)Chancemichaels

Here's my attempt (thumbnail) at recreating the Dozen Distinctive Destinations photo. The Wisconsin Gas Building isn't lit up like it was, and it just doesn't seem to have the same "oomph" as the original though. If there's interest I can upload it. Sulfur 21:19, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

I really like your photo, and it should certainly be put up on the page. I think some of the difference in "oomph" is just simple sharpening and color manipulation in photoshop. Here is your photo after a quick unsharp mask and a minor color correction (to remove some of the orange). If you play around enough, you should probably be able to recreate the purple color cast that the DDD photo has. (Here is the same photo in full res.) Nice job! -Nick^talk 22:20, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

That helps... what filter/values did you use for the correction? I'll make the changes and update the file (same link) above. Sulfur 01:22, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

I like that one. It really captures the spirit of the city's architecture, and it's a well-composed photo to boot. --Chancemichaels 13:41, 27 July 2006 (UTC)Chancemichaels

Student population

after noting the total student population from other cities and towns, i recently added the enrollment figures of the listed colleges and institutions of higher education in milwaukee and came to a figure of roughly 115,000 students. as this number probably fluctuates from year-to-year, i noted that the student population of the city "exceeded 100,000" if anyone is curious how i came to this number, here are the stats: uw milwaukee - 28,000 students (undergrad and grad) marquette - 11,500 students alverno - 2,372 students cardinal stritch - 7,600 students medical college of wisconsin - 1,359 students matc - 60,000 students miad - 1,000 students msoe - 2,300 students mount mary - 1,600 students the total came to 115,831 and for wisconsin lutheran college, i could not find recent enrollment figures and so i omitted them from the estimate.

-mm

Big Small Town?

I've lived in Milwaukee most of my life (coming up on 17 years) and I don't really agree with where it says many Milwaukeeans comment that it feels like a "big small town." I've never felt this way and I can honestly say I've never actually heard of anyone who grew up here making this comment until I read the article. I'm assuming that if anyone makes that comment, it's people from larger cities like Chicago who say it as a way to take a passive jab at Milwaukee. But even still, it doesn't make sense being as how a lot of us Milwaukeeans feel as though we don't have much in common with the rest of the state and, if anything, like to talk about how different we are compared to the rest of Wisconsin.

Maybe I could accept it if it said something like "Milwaukee is said to feel like it is made up of many smaller cities that happen to be near each other." since I've heard that comment made a few times (ephasis on "few"), but I'd rather it not be there at all. --User:MuthaFnTruth

Google finds several pages using the term in reference to Milwaukee: "Big small town" Milwaukee -Wikipedia. It’s of course not a term used exclusively for Milwaukee; it’s also used to describe Cincinatti, Lexington, Ky., and St. Louis. Also consider that since you live in Milwaukee, people would have little reason to describe the city to you. I don’t see it as a jab at all. --Rob Kennedy 15:54, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

• If this description is so pervasive that it gets applied to that many different cities (on top of many others, I've heard of Pittsburgh and Cleveland described that way too), then maybe we should just accept that smaller big cities simply have a feel that's more common than we think. That doesn't have to make them "big small towns." Besides, cities the size of Milwaukee, St. Louis, Pittsburgh, etc; outnumber "big" big cities like NYC, LA and Phily. So maybe we should be looking at us as the norm, and them as the exception.

• Remember, you are only one person out of about 1.7 million in the Milwaukee Metro area; just because you haven't heard the term before, doesn't mean it isn't used.

• I would think that if it was a prominent enough discription to warrant it being on wikipedia, then I'd have heard it described that way at least once in my 17 years of having lived here. Also since the article refers to "Milwaukeeans" making that comment, then it shouldn't matter what those 1.7 Million people think unless they're one of the 596,000 who REALLY live in the city. Of course someone would describe "Milwaukee" as a big small town if they actually lived in, say, Tosa or Greenfield, but I can't imagine anyone who lives in the actual city thinking of it this way. Again, most of us feel jaded by the assumptions made by people who are unfamilliar with Milwaukee based on the fact that we're in (what is seen as) a rural and small town state. --User:MuthaFnTruth
  • Journal Sentinel writer Vikki Ortiz used the phrase in her June 1, 2006, column. I don't know whether she's actually a Milwaukee resident now, but the column mentions she moved out of an apartment on Cass Street three years ago, and I'm willing to bet her new place wasn't very far away.

  The School of Architecture and Urban Planning at UWM uses the phrase in its brochure for prospective students.

  Another Journal Sentinel writer, Jan Uebelherr, used the phrase in a July 31, 2005, article. I don't know where Uebelherr lives.

  Someone at the DeLoggio Acheivement program quotes a Marquette representative as saying, "Milwaukee is a big small town."

  Do I need to find all these people and ask them whether they live within the Milwaukee city limits?

  Do you really think there's such a big difference between those who live in Milwaukee and those who live in its adjoining suburbs? If I were to move just four blocks south, I'd be living in Milwaukee. I work in Milwaukee, I go to school in Milwaukee, and I socialize in Milwaukee. Do my opinions of Milwaukee not count as much simply because my property-tax dollars don't go there? --Rob Kennedy 06:29, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

• Are you serious? While you might have a better perspective of Milwaukee than someone who is unfamilliar with it altogether, your opinion of Milwaukee wouldn't be nearly as accurate as someone who grew up and lives here. Where you grew up ans where you live makes all the difference as it influences your POV socially and culturally. I go to UWM (one of the few Milwaukee natives here) and I run into kids from the burbs all the time that are too scared to even cross the Locust Street Bridge because they honestly believe that Black people have nothing better to do than to wait around for random white people to beat down. In other words, they know nothing of Milwaukee other than the upper east side and wanna profess to know a thing or two about it. Am I supposed to value their opinion as much as mine when I'm familliar with almost every part of the city? Especially when it's because I grew up in that oh-so dreaded North Side ghetto that Milwaukee's big city problems were in (and are) in my face on the regular that I have trouble seeing Milwaukee as a "big small town." If you want an actual "big small town," go to Madison.
  • Am I serious? Yes, quite. I go to UWM, too. (What a coincidence!) The impression I get from you is that Milwaukee exists in a vacuum, completely isolated from everything around it, so that nobody nearby could possibly form an opinion about the city that might resemble the opinions of those inside. In fact, people travel freely in and out of Milwaukee and the surrounding areas. The signals of Milwaukee’s TV and radio news programs can be picked up outside the city’s borders, and the city’s newspaper has subscribers who aren’t Milwaukee residents, so word of Milwaukee happenings are available to outsiders.

  Note that if your classmates live on campus or south, east, or west of campus, then they are Milwaukeeans, just like you, since all this article requires for them to attain that title is that they live in the city. It’s only the Shorewood residents and commuters who “don’t count.”

  And I should point out that the discussion here is not the accuracy of the “big small town” description. The discussion is the accuracy of the statement that Milwaukeeans use that term to describe Milwaukee. I’m not going to argue about whether the city feels like a big small town. It doesn’t matter how many other cities are described that way, and it doesn’t matter whether there are bigger smaller towns nearby. --Rob Kennedy 17:15, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

• I have lived in Milwaukee and 'Tosa and referred to Milwaukee as a 'big small town' all the time. I still think it is completely relevant and use that term to describe it to friends who have never been there on a regular basis. It's definitely used by people who live in MKE, and I completely agree with Rob (above) regarding his daily work/social life and non-Milwaukeans' opinions being valid. --PaddyM 17:24, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
  • I also think it's completely relevant and appropriate to include it in the article. I've heard this phrase off and on since I was old enough to understand it. --Fang Aili ^talk 15:01, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Social life

I don't understand the purpose of this section. Currently, it repeats the stuff on festivals already noted in its own section, and then talks about the fact there are a lot of bars and that people like to tailgate. That's the extent of "social life" in Milwaukee? I think this should be expanded or dumped. Not a dog 19:03, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

• • • The section needs to be expanded into a more general culture section. You're right - it's just a reiteration of what is stated in the Festivals section.