Wikipedia talk:Requests for comment/IZAK
Seems basically resolved between Sam Spade and IZAK
Ed, thanks for the input, allow me to bring you up to speed: A while ago User:Sam Spade contacted me at my talk page, please see User talk:IZAK#Hi IZAK We conducted a lengthy correspondence. Sam conveyed his concerns and I described and explained where I was coming from, please see User talk:IZAK#Response After some discussion I basically told Sam that "... I am sorry for any discomfort and hurt you may have experienced and I hope that we can continue a positive dialogue in the future. Thanks again for your sincere words and patience. IZAK 00:52, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)" and Sam accepted and said "OK, I can accept that, but please do not to use slurs like "anti-semite" "bigot" or "nazi" on the wikipedia in the future.... Sam Spade 13:28, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)." Since then all has been quiet. As for dealing with User:HistoryBuffer I have not really had much to do with him this past month. He nevertheless does continue to use such epithets as "Zionistas" and similar sounding insults towards the editors involved with Israel-related articles. I was in fact contacted by User:GeneralPatton, see User talk:IZAK#Opposing Anti-Semitism on Wikipedia, to commence a RfC of my own against HistoryBuffer ("Izak, from my own experience, I suggest you now take HistoryBuffEr straight to Arbitration, and demand he be banned from all articles concerning the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. You have a great and compelling body of evidence against him. GeneralPatton 19:36, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)") User:GeneralPatton in fact has warned HistoryBuffer directly that "HistoryBuffEr, its about time you start playing nice with everyone else or pay the consequences (arbitration). GeneralPatton 02:43, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)," see this at Talk:Holocaust denial examined#This article is totally disputed, but I have delayed this, not wanting to roil the waters even more than they have been. If necessary I will join User:GeneralPatton in starting a RfC against HistoryBuffer's uncivil and demeaning language and behavior and no doubt we will have support. At any rate things have been quiet. So I would say that whatever the issues were and are, they have been aired, responded to, discussed and probably even resolved to some extent (which is my take on things right now). So this RfC is in any case long past many deadlines of "48 hours" and should be closed. Thank you for all your help. IZAK 21:16, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)
- Speaking purely as a mediator, I will be happy to see harmony between you and Sam. I always prefer for matters to be resolved between parties rather than "going to court". Whether or not there's a formal Request for Mediation, it's the result that counts.
- Agree to disagree on facts or values, and yet cooperate to make accurate, unbiased articles. --Uncle Ed (El Dunce) 12:17, 2 Nov 2004 (UTC)
- I can't say I'm convinced, but IZAK was amiable enough on his talk page, and has not made any slanderous statements or campaigns against me since then. Frankly it will take time, and consistantly positive interactions for me to feel resolved, but esp. since we are not currently editing any articles in common (to my knowledge) things seem to be in a state of calm. Perhaps I will have to wait until my next RfA before I can know if IZAK will engage in similar tactics, since I have recieved no assurance from him that he feels such techniques are other than acceptable. Sam [Spade] 15:39, 2 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Hi there Sam, BTW, would you support a RfA by ME (I am not "running" by the way, just curious)? I did not know that one runs perpetual campaigns on Wikipdia for Admin positions? Hopefully, there will not be any need to object to your views. Although today I did receive a troubling message on my talk page from User:Viriditas: "Sam Spade is engaging in historical revisionism on Nazi Germany and Pursuit of Nazi collaborators. --Viriditas 22:38, 2 Nov 2004 (UTC)" (see User talk:IZAK#Sam Spade, aka "Thomas Jefferson") which makes me very worried about the direction and positions you take on Wikipedia. At this time I am giving you the benefit of the doubt, and I hope you will not pursue the alleged positions that concern User:Viriditas and many others NOT interested in allowing Wikipedia to become a POV platform for "historical revisionism on Nazi Germany and Pursuit of Nazi collaborators" and similar abominable stuff. Only time will tell I guess. IZAK 06:08, 3 Nov 2004 (UTC)
- Yes, I read that, as well as the identical comment he left @ User_talk:Jayjg#Sam_Spade.2C_aka_.22Thomas_Jefferson.22. If you think he has a leg to stand on, I suggest you weigh in at the appropriate talk page, as he requested. Clearly he is having some trouble making his case, or he wouldn't be requesting backup.
- What is truly abominable is that the ethnic cleansing and state sponsored race-based persecution of ethnic Germans after WWII could be described as "Pursuit of Nazi collaborators" by anyone claiming neutrality. Women being systematically raped and nailed to barn doors by their ears, children shot in the street, men beaten and driven into freight cars headed to gulags in Siberia... is this the sort of "victors justice" that fills you with pride?
- Call me what you like, I will not back down while disgraceful articles such as this are paraded before our unfortunate readers, shaming both the wikipedia and neutral editors alike. I should hope that regardless of your POV, that you can see the proper response to such abominations. If I were to see you behave in a neutral, polite manner in response to issues such as this (as well as generally) for a period of time, I would of course support you for an adminship position. [[User:Sam Spade|Thomas Jefferson for President]] 15:35, 3 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Sam the Nazis should have thought of this: ("...Women being systematically raped and nailed to barn doors by their ears, children shot in the street, men beaten and driven into freight cars headed to gulags in Siberia...") happening BEFORE they attacked Russia in Operation Barbarossa (22nd June 1941), breaking their (signed and sealed) word of honor of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact (1939), and killing millions of Russian civilians via Einsatzgruppen and similar abominable acts during the war. To enrage the proverbial Russian bear and then complain that it is acting "bear-like" is like expecting British bombers not to flatten Dresden in 1945 after the Germans had attacked Britain's cities with its own bombers in The Blitz of 1940-1. The moral of the story is, and somehow German's are HISTORICALLY VERY "learning disabled" about this, is that: Don't declare war (especially the Holocaust of the Jews) against the world and then expect everyone to treat you nicely (or fairly...as human emotions are loosed) just because you raise a white flag, after they spent years fighting to defeat you. Nobody told Germany to go into Russia in the first place (it was all part of Hitler's megalomania and the Germans followed him). Anyhow, this is all tangential stuff. The main concern I have is that you do seem to want the condemned history of the Nazi era to be treated with kindness, yet you don't seem to have similar instinctive feelings about the poor Jewish victims. Which then gets one thinking that maybe....what the heck, I won't say, I just hope that the pathetic and well-deserved defeat of Nazi Germany should serve as an example for those who fantasize about defending the indefensible. IZAK 08:41, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)
In your racism you forget how many of those ethnic Germans lived in Russia, Ukraine, etc... prior to WWII. This "their ethnic clensing was deserved, all Germans were Nazi's" mentality disgusts me. Sam [[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=User_talk:Sam_Spade&action=edit§ion=new 'Spade%