Talk:Sin
Folks, that was just a first stab at it. Feel free to jump in and do it right!! :-)
- I appreciate the Protestant/Catholic usage note, but in my experience Protestants (ministers, laity, and writers) used it primarily in terms of personal sin. As in, "Do not commit sin!" or "It would be a sin to do that." or "Lord, forgive me, for I have sinned." Protestants like repentance, too, not just Catholics. :-) Ed Poor
Actually, both viewpoints are accurate. Many Protestant churches speak of "Original sin," and of "sins," acts contrary to God's law and one of the results of "Original sin." F. Lee Horn
Quick question on the etymology on the origin of sin in English any definitive sources?--dgd
- I have added a paragraph on the etymology of the English word. ---User:Ihcoyc (Feb. 26, 2003)
shouldn't the stuff at the top of the Sin page be a disambiguation page? also - soley individualistic accounts of sin. perhaps need to be balanced with the idea of corporate exile (and perhaps not). mhjb
A suggestion was made at Talk:Atonement that the material on that page ought to be merged with this one, which already contained a discussion of Jewish concepts of atonement. I have tried, and this is a first go at it. ---User:Ihcoyc
"There also tends to be a distinction between Roman Catholic and many Protestant views of the effects of sin. Many Protestants typically teach that sin, including original sin, entirely extinguished any human capacity to move in the direction of reconciliation towards God. Salvation is sola fide, by faith alone, and sola gratia, by grace alone, and by God's initiative alone. Roman Catholics, by contrast, typically teach that while sin has tarnished the original goodness of humanity prior to the Fall, it has not entirely extinguished that goodness. Under this view, humans can take the initiative in reaching out towards God and seeking redemption. "
I can't speak for what Catholicism teaches (though whatever it is it's probably a doctrine, not merely a typical teaching), but that's not my experience of Protestant churches. There are many views on whether we reach for God or he reaches for us, but I hadn't heard one put in terms of original sin. I don't think I'm up to rewriting it myself, though, but I'd say the best thing would be to combine it with the atonement bit and put in different teachings.
For now, I'm just changing it a little. Bagpuss 23:27 Mar 3, 2003 (UTC)
- I put in "typically teach" because some writers who were not "Protestants," like St Augustine of Hippo, taught something closer to the Protestant position by my understanding. In other words, there were differences of opinion on the topic that took place well before the Reformation. If Roman Catholicism has adopted some different formulation as doctrine, I don't know what it is exactly. -- IHCOYC 00:10 Mar 4, 2003 (UTC)
- I think what's being described above is known as total depravity, which is more specifically a Calvinist doctrine which does have roots in Augustine. Arminians, like those in the Methodist tradition, would stop well short of the total depravity position. Eastern Christianity also rejects the doctrine; they just weren't able to correct Augustine in a timely fashion, as communication between East and West was already being hampered by linguistic and cultural differences. Wesley 14:53 Mar 4, 2003 (UTC)
- Is there a technical term for the Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox position other than "Arminianism"? We definitely need to do some kind of article on the theologies of grace. I added links to "total depravity" and "Arminianism," also to "Pascal's wager" which strikes me as assuming some variety of Arminianism. -- IHCOYC 16:29 Mar 4, 2003 (UTC)
- I'm not aware of a specific name for the Eastern Orthodox position; I'm sure that neither it nor Roman Catholicism could really be termed "Arminian", even if they do share some similarities. Roman Catholicism probably has a term, but I don't know what it is. Orthodoxy does talk a lot about free will, and about gaining increasing amounts of free will as one is healed of the effects of sin, and of course about God's desire for everyone to be "saved", but I don't think I'm qualified to talk about this well. Freedom of Morality by Florovsky would probably be a good source. Haven't actually read it yet; I'm still doing a lot of learning myself. Wesley 16:06 Mar 6, 2003 (UTC)