Talk:Israel

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Jerusalem Talk

Ongoing discussions: Israel and the Occupied Territories

Status of English as a language in Israel

English is not an official language in Israel. However if you do a poll, most people would think that it is one. English in many aspects is much more common than Arabic. Nearly all road signs are available in English and Hebrew, but only some are available in Arabic. Most governmental websites are available in English and Hebrew, but not many are available in Arabic. All 3 languages are written on all stamps and currency. You can depose a court statement in English, and they must accept it (this needs verification). Everyone has to study English 10 years in school while Arabic studies in school last 2-3 years and are sometimes optional. English is required for entering the university. I suggest adding "Other languages: English" (e.g. like in the Sri Lanka page).

Well, the Other languages idea is better than "semi-official", but I'm still not sure it should be included; if you look at countries like Germany or Sweden or the Netherlands, for example, the knowledge of English and years of study would likely be greater than in Israel, yet none of them list English as an "Other language". Jayjg 03:05, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)

From what I've heard In Germany English is optional (e.g. some choose French, etc.), I believe it's the same in Netherlands, and I don't know about Sweden and Finland. Again, proficiency isn't the only reason I mention it. Take a look at German coins http://www.euro.ecb.int/en/section/euro0/specific.DE.html , the writing on the side is only in German.

Take a look at the German Passport (only in German), http://www.fotosearch.com/comp/phd/PHD359/OS44003.JPG , and take a look at the Israeli one (in Hebrew and English, but not in Arabic). http://www.4law.co.il/701_files/i-1.jpe

In the CIA factbook, http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/is.html , English is mentioned there, and in all the other countries mentioned above, it's not. I agree that "Other language" is a better idea, and I'm withdrawing the "semi-official" idea (because I think it's a confusing term, not because I think it's wrong).

I think a short section on the Languages of Israel, including Hebrew, Arabic, and the information you've provided about English, would be quite interesting. Jayjg 02:00, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)

What's an unsigned contributor? Israeli ethnic cleansing is a fact

Israeli ethnic cleansing forced 700,000 - 800,000 Palestinians from their homes during the Nakba or "disaster" or "catastrophe". This is a known fact. See 1948_Arab-Israeli_war#Demographic_outcome and [1] --Alberuni 06:58, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Wikipedia policy is for controversial changes to controversial articles to first be discussed on the relevant article's Talk page, rather than implemented unilaterally and sparking edit wars. The section you insist on re-adding was added to the article by 67.164.10.214, without any Talk page discussion at all, let alone consensus. Thus I reverted that contributors edit. If you wish to re-add it, discuss it here first. Impi 07:14, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I am discussing the edit and providing evidence to substantiate it. You are censoring the information claiming it is "too controversial" on an already "controversial page" without providing any data to back up your reversions. Facts are facts. No point trying to conceal the truth. By the way, the page is not marked with the "NPOV" or "Controversial" tags. Maybe it should be. --Alberuni 15:53, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Pro-Palestinian sites (like the one you brought) claim that ethnic cleansing occured. Pro-Israeli sites insist no such thing happened, and bring evidence as well[2]. That demographic change occured is not questioned; that it can be labelled "ethnic cleansing" is. Controversial edits need to be agreed to by consensus in Talk: first rather than being forced on stable articles. Oh, and I think by "unsigned contributors" Impi meant anonymous IPs. Jayjg 16:12, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)

The changes you reverted were accurate. An "ethnic cleansing" is AFAIK, a purging of some ethnicities from a piece of land. It is a fact that that happened during the war in 1948. I don't think Wikipedia should hide that fact. Palestine-info 11:51, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Considering that there are over 1 million Arab Israelis currently living as citizens of Israel, it's hard to understand which ethnicities you think were "purged" from the country. Jayjg 16:12, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)

My personal feelings on the matter are irrelevant, what matters is that the section in question was stable for quite a long time before the anonymous user decided to modify it with what is a controversial statement. How can inserting a statement that a country was responsible for ethnic cleansing, a very loaded word, not be controversial? I reverted for the simple reason that on all articles in which viewpoints are often extreme or POV is inevitable from editors, recommended policy is for the proposed change to be listed on the talk page so all contributors can comment and perhaps modify the portion of text to make it more NPOV. If, after a few days, there are no objections or consensus is reached, then the section can of course be added to the article.

Alberuni, first of all your personal attacks are not helping much. Referring to me as a revisionist and accusing me of censorship and concealing the truth, when I quite plainly invited discussion on the talk page as per policy on similar articles, is rather insulting. In addition, to suggest this article is not controversial is laughable, because it's plain to anybody that it's controversial due to the ongoing conflict and the extreme views engendered by it.

So, I'm going to place the two versions here, so others can compare them and consensus can be reached.

Version 1:

After the war, only 14-25% (depending on the estimate) of the Arab population remained in Israel, the rest having fled prior to and during the war. When Israel refused their reentry, they became refugees; see Palestinian Exodus for a discussion of the circumstances.

Version 2:

After the war, only 14-25% (depending on the estimate) of the Arab population remained in Israel, the majority (some 800,000 Palestinians) having been forcefully expelled by an Israeli campaign of ethnic cleansing. When Israel refused their reentry, they became refugees; see Palestinian Exodus for a discussion of the circumstances. Israel's refusal to acknowledge the rights of indigenous Palestinians and the military occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip remain the main causes of the continuing Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

Impi 16:23, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)