Talk:Supergirl

Supergirl of Planet Argo

my first posting. please don't yell, tho' I haven't read the manual (life's too short, kids). I believe yet another kink in the supergirl origin may've been introduced in a comic by evan dorkin (of "milk and cheese" "fame") and sarah dyer (of "action girl"). in this "contranuity", kara-el, if I don't mistake her name, is from krypton's sister planet, argo, is immune to kryptonite, though has a phobia of cold (not shared by other argoans), and remains his cousin. I might be wrong. thanks for your forbearance!

Welcome. It's customary to sign any discussion posting you have with --~~~~. Don't sweat it, though. (You might want to check out the Sandbox for getting used to the system.) Oh, I also hope you don't mind if I put a section header to this, for neatness. Anyhow, you're thinking of the animated Supergirl, born Kara In-Ze. She has a fear of cold because she and her family were the last survivors of Argo, knocked out of its shared orbit with Krypton after the latter exploded. She and the survivors of her family created stasis chambers designed to let them survive until help arrived. When help did arrive, in the form of Superman, only Kara's chamber was still active and undamaged. She subconsciously fears returning to the cold threat of death. She's technically not related to Kal-El, but they both consider themselves adopted cousins of a sort. If this isn't in the main article already, it should be; if it weren't so late local time, I'd do it myself right now. --Joe Sewell 02:40, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

I added the information you suggested. --Joe Sewell 17:07, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

Brought back the Alex Ross artwork

I can understand the desire to have Helen Slater as the main pic, but since the article still referred to the Alex Ross artwork, I saw the need to correct the comment, or bring back the picture. I chose the latter, with an appropriate correction to the verbage. I'm not completely happy with the page layout, but it works for me for now. --Joe Sewell 02:30, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

Post-Crisis Kara Zor-el Website

I don't know how to fix this.. but I am the host of the Post Crisis Supergirl Website that is listed in the Links section.. the address has changed.. .the new address is www.karalives.com ... I hope this gets fixed and thanks to whomever posted the link...

Firey Wings = Sophisticated?

I don't want feel it's my place to quash someone's point of view on the level of maturity or sophistication of a comic, but is it really accurate to say that the Supergirl books where Linda was an "Earth-born angel" are more mature than most other superhero books? I read them, and that's not the impression I got at all. In fact, I had the opposite feeling for these stories, and I thought that they were kind of obvious and gimmicky, like the angel they had serving on the JLU for a couple of years, for another example.

I don't think we need to editorialize for the reader. Just explain what the story was about, and let the reader of the article decide for himself (or herself) whether it sounds mature or sophisticated.

The bit about Lilith being Adam's first wife is also a little vague and out of context. Why put in that bit at all? Just link to Lilith's own article.

And on another note, the grammar in that section is all out of whack (a young boy who [sic] she believed was God). At the very least it should be fixed up for that reason.

Mael-Num 07:32, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

Oh, also...I did a teensy rewrite on the "heroic death" of Supergirl, noting that it was Byrne's Man of Steel that necessarily caused her sacrifice to be forgotten. If I'm mistaken, by all means put it back. Mael-Num 01:22, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

3RR

I have just reported the recent 3RR violation by the anonymous user 24.168.61.123. You can look at it or add comments at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RR#User:24.168.61.123 That's just the beginning of the policies his recent edits ignore, but one thing at a time; a block for a clear-cut 3RR is not something he can fail to notice, and maybe that will get him engaging in some kind of dialogue. Or, failing that, just leaving the article alone, which would be less good but also acceptable. PurplePlatypus 05:50, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Actually we have another "reversion" of this anonymous user. I also think there's need for a reversion, thing that I did some minutes ago to the last version of the anonymous user 172.143.71.43. But I will try to attempt a contact with our anonymous. Wikipedia is like a real encyclopedia, only faster and opened to all potential editors. As such, every writer must add only contents based on real and verifiabile sources, knowing that at every moment the things he has written could be modified. We all know that. But are now matter of discussion two big issues:

• This is the Supergirl page, so argument of discussion is how this new Kara Zor-El is presented to the reader by her autors. Not Darkseid, not Superman. Supergirl, Post-Crisis Kara Zor-El
• We all know that logically a young girl cannot be physically stronger than a grown-up man, we also know from the DC event "One Million" that a Kryptonian gains more powers the more he stays under a yellow sun, but, considered that the only sources at the moment on Kara are an interview to her main author and the comics, we can easily read that the current plot device is the feeling of uneasyness of the superhero community for a young girl that _they_ perceive as unnaturally strong, even compared to Superman's standards. So, at least until DC will give through comics or confidential sources the solution to the Supergirl dilemma, we cannot express a partial or personal point of view, but only the sum of the given data. At least, I think so. 172.143.71.43 has clearly given a fully un-personal POV, so I reverted the text to his version, not the plurireverted 24.168.61.123 one.

I only hope that 24.168.61.123 will try to keep in mind some of this to attempt a new way of contributing wikipedia DrTofu83 16:52, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Supergirl?

By no means expert in DC stuff, let me raise a Q. Isn't the "first app" tag reserved for the gennie item? OK, Jimmy's "wish girl" was super, but was she Supergirl? I'd say no, Supergirl deubt in Action 252, which is where the Overstreet & Comics Journal (as I recall) both put her. So whassup with Action 123? Trekphiler 09:16, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Kara from Superman/Aliens

Should there be a separate paragraph for the last survivor of "Argo" named Kara in the Superman/Aliens miniseries? Kaijan 19:22, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Image

Will you infants stop switching the images of Supergirl? Dyslexic agnostic 02:55, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Found a second version of the image used on this page, clearly the same image but higher resolution. Wondering I should use it or that I'm even allowed to use it.

Location: [[1]]The main site: [2]

It looks like the same resolution to me. --Chris Griswold 07:39, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

It's the same picture but higher resolution, after some research it seems that the one I linked to here was actually based on the current image in the article just enlarged to fit a 1024x768 desktop. the quality of the image is therefor lower the one used now.

Relative strength

"We all know that logically a young girl cannot be physically stronger than a grown-up man, we also know from the DC event "One Million" that a Kryptonian gains more powers the more he stays under a yellow sun, but, considered that the only sources at the moment on Kara are an interview to her main author and the comics, we can easily read that the current plot device is the feeling of uneasyness of the superhero community for a young girl that _they_ perceive as unnaturally strong, even compared to Superman's standards."

I don't think it is impossible for Supergirl to be stronger than Superman. My reasoning is that this incarnation of Supergirl is technically older than Superman, thus it is probably that her powers are more developed. in the Superman/Batman comic book Superman meets an "older" and "stronger" Superman, which suggests that this incarnation of Superman's power is still developing. anyways its still too early everything new talked about is left to speculation.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.31.180.15 (talk • contribs)

It's all moot anyway - Superman IS more powerful than Kara and it's all explained in Issue 5 of the most recent series.

--Charlesknight 12:20, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Matrix and the Kents

Matrix lived with/was raised by the Kents, but did they refer to her as their daughter? I can't remember. --Chris Griswold 14:28, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

I don't believe so. --Joe Sewell 16:59, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Nevermind. I checked my Supergirl comics, and they do refer to her as their daughter and have a loving parental relationship with her. After the merge, they continue to maintain that relationship, and become friends with Linda's birth parents as well. --Chris Griswold 19:22, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Should Acquaintance Be Forgot

I added a section about the original (Pre-Crisis) Kara Zor-El's last appearance, in the 1988 Christmas with the Super-Heroes #2, in which she cheers up Deadman Boston Brand at Christmastime. This is a relevent and important part of the Supergirl mythos: an actual goodbye and remembrance of the character. While I can understand if someone might edit the section, I would like to see it stay. --Chris Griswold 20:06, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Chris, could you provide a source for the rumor about the story's impact on Waid? While I don't think rumored information belongs in the entry, informed speculation that could be referenced and cited would be OK. (For example, I'm thinking of a statement from someone who worked at DC with Waid at the time -- someone who might actually know the circumstances of his having left the position.)--Galliaz 21:20, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

No, you're right. I decided to start trying to find out about this, but forgot to delete it. Will do that now. --Chris Griswold 22:46, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Chris, I forgot to mention that the section is a nice addition to the entry!--Galliaz 03:34, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Kara Zor-El only?

Since it seems that all of the other Supergirls (Matrix, Linda Danvers, Cir-El and Power Girl) have their own articles, should we turn this article into a Kara Zor-El only article, or make an article devoted only to Kara? Coronis 02:13, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

ChrisGriswold and I have been talking about the very same thing. We thought that moving Kara Zor-El to her own page would be more appropriate. (Obviously much of that interchange happened before your additions to the Matrix page). CovenantD 02:54, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Kara Zor-El split

if you guys want to give Kara another article, her history in this one needs to be severely cut down or we have two articles saying the same thing.

Not only that, we can combine the two Kara Zor-El sections into one. Also make major re-edits. A lot of her biography is covered in her own article already. We don't need to give too much detail. Let this article be about the different characters who are called Supergirl and some background info only. --Destron Commander 14:29, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Merge with The Supergirls

I think the limited history of The Supergirls would tie in better with the information of this article because now it's all about every Supergirl. 75.4.131.148 21:41, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes, but the Supergirls aren't really Supergirl, they're just a name Clark used offhandedly for the teaming of the three.

I don't think they're really a team. It's like, i dunno pointing to a bunch of random guys and calling them "dumbasses." It doesn't make them a new team named "Dumbasses." -- Exvicious 23:11, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Merge. CovenantD 13:15, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

don't merge

Kara Zor-El should stand on her own...especially now that the Matrix Supergirl and Cir-El are both "no longer in continuity." The Supergirls were never a team - they were just a off-hand comment made by Superman. One third of them (Mia/Cir-El) has now been deemed to never have existed. Let's not bog down Kara Zor-El's article with them. 69.137.100.108 12:07, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Technically, this isn't "her" article. It's the Supergirl article. Calling this her article is like calling "Nightwing" Dick Grayson's. Anyway, I have no real opinion on the merger. ACS (Wikipedian) 05:13, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Merge Kara Zor-El with Supergirl. Due to Infinite Crisis events Kara is once again the only Supergirl and the others are just wiped out of continuity, perished versions.--The Judge 21:28, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Chronological order?

While it makes some sense to put both versions of Kara Zor-El together, it also makes the article somewhat confusing to go from reading about the Pre-Crisis Kara, then jumping ahead 20 years to the Loeb-created Kara, then jumping back to 1988 to the origin of Matrix. Would anyone else rather see the Pre- and Post-Crisis versions of Kara separated, so that the article reads in chronological order? Meaning Pre-Crisis Kara-->Matrix-->Earth Angel-->Cir-El-->the Loeb Kara. --SHODAN 03:29, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree they should be in chrono order. They used to be.... CovenantD 03:36, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

I also agree the two Karas should NOT be merged together, until IF & WHEN DC Comics state clearly that both girls are in fact one and the same. I think we are years away from that moment so...do not merge.

DAVID

Superwoman

Is it really appropriate to have a Superwoman listing here, since she/they has/have her/their own article? CovenantD 18:06, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

it mentions her as a precursor and doesn't really go into detail. Exvicious 03:08, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Still, It needed some work. I've done that. Cheak it out! ACS (Wikipedian) 22:22, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Much nicer. Thanks. CovenantD 00:57, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

DCAU

What's the source on Superman beginning to the end of JLU being 10 years? I realize it might have been 10 years in real time, but time passes differently for comic characters. So which holds true in this case, real time or comics time (or neither, or a combination)? Darquis 22:53, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Kara Zor-El (Black Costume version)?

Some discussion of the black costumed version of this character who appeared in the most recent Supergirl title (2006) would be useful. This character seems to be an aspect of Kara Zor-El's personality which has been submerged, perhaps deliberately, only to be freed by exposure to Black Kryptonite. In the fight she has with her "good" counterpart black-costumed Kara reveals that she was sent to Earth not to care for the infant Kal-El, but to kill him as part of Zor-El's plan to revenge himself on Jor-El. While this has not been fully explained in the comics, it has nor been contradicted so far and the latest issue of Supergirl (#8, 2006) seems to suggest that the current Kara Zor-El, operating in Kandor as Flamebird, still retains the memory of Zor-El charging her with this revenge mission, suggesting that this is the black-costumed "evil" Kara, or a merged version of both Kara Zor-Els previously seperated by Luthor's exposing Supergirl to Black-K. -- James C

Quote Removal?

Kara is described by the Question and Gilbert Hale as

‘She’s just a girl! Blonde hair, blue eyes – real farmer’s daughter type!’ ‘And a handshake like a vice?’

(Fearful Symmetry, Justice League Unlimited)

Should this be removed? I watched this eposide today and the statement was about Galatea, her clone. While both had the same appearance, they don't share the same personality.

If the info is incorrect, then yes, it should be removed or transferred to Tea's article. CovenantD 14:07, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Versions of a character or different characters.

Supergir-Matrix was intended to be Kara Zor-El, that's why she wasnt ever called "Supergirl II". Matrix was the Supergirl revamp after the Crisis. The same hero reimagined, just like the Supremes and Judy Jordans of the Supremacy. And Linda Danvers is not yet another one, that is still Matrix, only merged with the body (not with the person, since the girl died) of a girl.

Since ten year from now nobady will remember there was a "Matrix" supergirl that wasn't called Kara Zor-El, which is the already popular version adapted not only in the movie but also in the DC animated universe, I think there is no need for a Kara Zor-El separated article.

However, I do see the need for a Matrix article, since, although intended to be the same character as Kara, the now wiped out of continuity character had a full background and several adventures covered in a considerable number of issues.

My proposal would be to make a pre-Crisis Kara section, then a post-Crisis and then a section called "Other Supergirls", with intros to Matrix-Danvers, Cir-El and the short-lived versions before Kara.--The Judge 09:23, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

We had this discussion like 4 months ago. The article is no longer about Kara Zor-El, but the history of characters with the name Supergirl. Much like the Robin (comics) or Wonder Girl or Nightwing pages. Before your changes, the article was told chronologically, not with sections per character. That's why Silver Age history came first and the modern incarnation came last. That's also why there was no "powers and abilities" section. All that was in the main articles. While I agree that there should've been no split in the first place, the chrnology thing was the consensus. I do agree the Supergirl main page should be Kara's. To sum up:

Supergirl= Kara Zor-El. She should have her own section, but i think there should also be a History of Supergirl section, told chronologically somewhere on the page, instead of "other supergirls".

The Linda Danvers and Matrix (comics) articles should be merged.

The discussion has not reach clear consensus yet and the merge tag is still on.

I support the merge, Supergirl is almost only popular as Kara. Since Kara is the current Supergil, as she was 30 years during silver age and in all other media, as time passes, only comic book "experts" will remember there were other "Supergirls" (which were more like versions of the same character). Pardon my English.--The Judge 23:21, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Do Not Merge You have a Kryptonian powerhouse, a psychokinetic shape-shifter, and a fallen Earth-Born Angel, I don't think that makes them versions of the same character, just three different women who assumed the same identity. We should have articles for the three women so that "non-experts" can familiarize themselves with these different characters. NeoCoronis 03:45, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Don't worry hahahaha. The Idea is not to erase the matrix article. Only to move the Kara article here since Kara is the Supergirl. The other supergirls section should be kept as well as a matrix article. I readed the angel story-arc and it was good. I wouldn't like it not to have an article. Linda Danvers died, matrix only took her body and some memories, so the "psychokinetic shape-shifter", and "the fallen Earth-Born Angel" are the exact same character going through change. --The Judge 07:24, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Actually, when Matrix was removed from Linda, Linda had all her memories (her own superpowers), and said that she owed Matrix for redeeming her soul. So they are two different people. This page should be for all the Supergirls, with Kara keeping her own article, that way, the Supergirl article wouldn't be to long. Usually, when more than one person shares an ID, like Green Lantern, Blue Beetle, Spider-Woman, etc. then there is one article which highlights each character, then seperate articles for the individuals. The Green Lantern article has info on all of the people who have been Green Lantern, then seperate pages for Hal Jordan, Kyle Rayner, Alan Scott, etc (even though Hal Jordan is the more "popular" Lantern). NeoCoronis 15:27, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

IF you are interested in merging, you should start a dedicated merge discussion and list it at the WP:CMC notice board. The merge discussions there should give you an idea of proper formatting. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 08:10, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

The Kara article is not that much longer than this. I'd like it to be merged, but I don't mind it that much. I'm happy with Kara occupying the Silver age and Modern age main sections. As he analigically did in comics.--The Judge 21:41, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Kara In-Ze 28,000 years in the future, or 1,000?

It's been a while since I saw the fifth season of JLU, but is the recent edit that says the animated Supergirl is staying 28,000 years in the future correct? I know she's with the animated version of the LSH, but the comic version is only a millennium ahead. --Joe Sewell 16:07, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, I used my memory instead of researching... I thought the Legion was from the year 30, 000, are they from year 3000? --The Judge 01:34, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

The comic-book LSH was from the 31^st century, making it roughly AD 3000. I seem to recall they may have played around with that for the JLU incarnation, which is why I'm not sure, either. --Joe Sewell 16:55, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Please don't rely on your memory. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 18:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm not a machine, you know? Excuse me. Would you reserarch uf you had to fill a blank for Supermans native planet? It's kind of the same, I was so sure I thougth I didn't need research, but I was wrong. What happened, then? We fixed it. Once again, excuse me.--The Judge 04:10, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

If I weren't very knowledgable about the topic, yes, I'd research it. The Legion's time being one thousand years in the future is a core part of the concept; you apparently aren't very familiar with the Legion, so I would ask that in the future, when writing about that topic, please double-check. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 06:42, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Don't you have any manners? You've lately been talking about some of my work and I get that you have some sort of higher rank with some authority and call the shots, but that doesn't mean you get to be so impolite, and inconsiderate with other people work. I commited a mistake, we fixed it, I'm sorry. --The Judge 07:17, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm going to ask that you be calm in your responses. I mean no offense by asking you to make aure you have the correct information before adding it to an article. I have no higher rank. I understand that you have admitted your mistake and now have apologized, and I appreciate that. I do not believe I have impolite or inconsiderate, but I have found your responses to be more dramatic than necessary. We're both working to improve Wikipedia; I'm not your enemy. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 08:06, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Chill out, Chris. I suspect many of us edit from memory, rather than have stacks of references handy. If that's not "appropriate" here, then maybe Wikipedia isn't the right place for most of us fallible humans. Besides, as I said, I seem to recall some slight differences in the DCAU version of the Legion, which could've included its point in time. (Now, see, I realize I don't remember for sure, which is why I brought it up here rather than just fix it in the article.) --Joe Sewell 16:47, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

I really don't understand what the problem was. I asked him to double check to be sure what he is adding is corect and was called inconsiderate and impolite. I don't need to chill out because I'm not upset. But that doesn't mean I wouldn't appreciate a more reasonable tone from an editor. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 20:36, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

The problem is your arrogance upset me. I'm all for researching, but that was a human mistake. And your tone when you write is awful and unpolite. That's why I feel angry. I'm sorry, but that's how I feel about the issue.--The Judge 21:36, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Please cease the personal attacks. Comment on actions, not editors. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 21:50, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

What are you talking about? *you* attacked me. I'm only trying to explain it to you it wasn't nice.--The Judge 21:53, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Let's review: So far, I've asked you not to rely on your memory, to research a topic when you are not knowledgable about it, and to make sure the information you add is correct. You have questioned my manners and have called me impolite, inconsiderate, and arrogant. I'm finished with this conversation. Please remember to be civil in your future dealings with editors. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 23:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

That's was my whole point! You need to be civil, Chris!! You were, I only pointed it out--The Judge 08:58, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Discussion: Merge with "Kara Zor-El"

Discussion

Spearheaded by edits from The Judge, this "Supergirl" article has returned to being very Kara-centric. Initially, I thought there would be more resistence, but there have been no reverts as I can see. The problem is that now we have pretty much two of the same article with Supergirl and Kara Zor-El. So either we radically re-edit "Supergirl" or merge "Kara Zor-El."

I support The Judge's argument that Kara's "return" ends up making all the other Supergirls footnotes in history. Kara was Supergirl for about 25 years before Matrix. Matrix was Supergirl from about 1988-1996. The Linda Danvers/Matrix Hybrid was "Supergirl" for 4 years and Linda Danvers was Supergirl solo for two years after they split. Cir-El was Supergirl for a little under a year, I think. Then we have the return of Kara who will probably be Supergirl for the forseeable future.

The argument against that is "there's four supergirls, people will get confused."

Anyway, I vote merge, or someone needs to seriously edit the Supergirl article -- Exvicious 07:25, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Survey

• Merge per my nom above Exvicious 07:38, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
• Do not merge - I really like the superhero disambig pages we have, such as Nightwing, Robin (comics), Flash (comics) and Green Lantern, and with the Matrix-Linda era spanning almost 20 years, I think that's a major part of the character's history. Additionally, I would not want the article to diminish the importance of the earlier versions of the character. I have not paid close attention to the recent edits on the article, but I will have to do so now. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 08:13, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
• Do not merge - Per above, we need to work within the tapestry laid, not nit our own. As with Flash, Green Lantern, etal, we need to stick to a separate page for each individual and a cover-all page for all individuals with the same alias. NetK 18:09, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
• Do not merge - Per above, despite my having grown up with the original Kara (1959), and sometimes feeling that she's the one and only Supergirl. But my feelings are not the issue, comics history governs. Of course, there's the need for summaries in the main article to whet the reader's appetite to read the separate pages for more details. I like what we have now but future editors will have their say! AlanSKaufman 23:28, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
• Do not merge - Per the arguments above. --Joe Sewell 21:11, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
• Do not merge - Per the arguments above, excepting Joe, to whom I apologise for the cut and paste. But yes, oppose because the way it's done at those articles is good. It informs the readers and assumes no character has precedence. Steve block Talk 21:32, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
• Do Not Merge' -- Ipstenu (talk|contribs) 16:43, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

My edits

I did some work tonight, and I want to make sure I explain it. I copy edited the entire article, fixing the tense and condensing where necessary. Some sections were unnecessarily long, particularly since the article itself says that pre-Crisis Kara is the best-known version, and her section was less detailed than some of the others. I also took out a "powers" section that is redundant with regard to the one in the Kara Zor-El article and which pertained to that character alone despite the article describing a number of characters. I also re-ordered to article to reflect actual publication history as tends to be the format for these articles.

Oh, and I linked to Streaky and Comet. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 10:26, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Good job. In this format, do you think there should still be a superhero box? Exvicious 10:27, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

No, I really don't. The SHB is not right foir this type of article, just as the team and series SHBs would be ill-fitting. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 18:22, 10 September 2006 (UTC)