Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)

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Ceres page move request

Can an admin move Ceres (mythology) to Ceres? Not receiving any disagreement, I moved the disambiguation page to Ceres (disambiguation). —Mike 20:36, Sep 24, 2004 (UTC)

Wait. This contradicts all the other ancient gods. See Jupiter, Mars. Don't we already have a convention on this? Rmhermen 00:11, Sep 25, 2004 (UTC)

I agree, we should just follow the existing practice. -- Cyrius|✎ 00:23, 25 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I can't find the practice written out. But I recall we were going to move pages from foo (mythology) to foo (god) lest we insulted anyone. The ones listed on Roman mythology are still listed under three different forms. I would suggest standardizing on foo (god). Rmhermen 00:32, Sep 25, 2004 (UTC)

I can understand if there is a major planet by the same name, but in this case there isn't. You can also take a look at Quirinus, Minerva, and Lares for other examples of gods without the "(god)" or "(mythology)" disambiguation in the article's title. —Mike 04:20, Sep 25, 2004 (UTC)

Unfortunately, 1 Ceres is an odd case. Because there's no solid definition of just what a "planet" is, the solar system is left with many objects that are clearly not simple asteroids, but are historically not considered planets either. This category includes Ceres, 4 Vesta, and the recently discovered Sedna and Quaoar, among others. Many people think Pluto belongs in that category with them. -- Cyrius|✎ 05:42, 25 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Current practice is a mess.

When a minor celestial object (or software program or anything else) is named after a mythological/religious entity, the original mythological/religious entity should surely have the undisambiguated title as it is the original after which the other was named. Currently this is not consistant. Compare the different treatment of Apollo and Juno. As to Jupiter and Mars, one can strongly argue that treatment of the deities should be under the undisambiguated article titles rather than under Jupiter (god) and Mars (god). If a name has muliple meanings, normally one at least should be the undisambiguated meaning, and here it should be Jupiter referring to the god, since that is the original. As the name of the planet is so common, it would be reasonable that the Jupiter page about the god would have two disambiguation links above the lead paragraph, one to Jupiter (planet) and one to Jupiter (disambiguation) for other meanings. This seems to me to be a rule that could be universally applied to all gods and mythological and legendary personages.

Another possible rule is that in cases where it seemed that a reference to something other than the deity is more common, then a disambiguation page would be the main target. The difficulty with this rule would be establishing which use was more common. Which use of Jupiter is most common? Probably here a case for the planet can be made. But what of Juno or Europa or Eros or Hercules and many others where it is probably impossible to tell which is the most common usage. Following the other rule avoids needless argument and makes Wikipedia usage consistant. Enter the divine name alone to get to an article on religion and mythology. Add "(planet)" or "(asteroid)" or "(constellation)" or "(satellite)" to get to the celestial objects. Or standardize an official list of celestial names which are considered of equal value to their mythological counterparts, ones where it is likely that more searches will be for the celestial references than the divine references. Such a list might be: Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, Pluto, Vesta, Ceres, Pallas, Juno, Vesta, Sedna, Callisto, Io, Europa, Ganymede, Orion, Andromeda, Cassiopeia. For the rest, mythological and legendary articles get undisambiguated priority.

Use of "(mythology)" for deities has always been bad, especially so for Roman deities that don't have any known mythology. Vesta is not the goddess of the hearth in Roman mythology especially, but more generally the ancient Roman goddess of the hearth. Accordingly, in most case "(god)" or "(goddess)" is better when disambiguation is needed. But it shouldn't be much needed.

Jallan 22:54, 2 Oct 2004 (UTC)

When a user looks up Jupiter, they'll expect information about the planet, not the god. Shouldn't the primary page should follow majority usage, not original source? In cases of roughly equal usages, disambiguation pages would be primary. Kundor 06:19, Oct 8, 2004 (UTC)

But for many cases you cannot know what majority use is and it's way too much trouble to attempt to find out. That's why I suggested a general rule of going with the origin name as the primary name, except in cases where you can make a good case that the secondary usage of the name is far more likely to be sought than the original usage. I provided what I think is a good exception list of such names for celestial objects, including the name Jupiter. I think the rule should be, to go with the origin name rule, except for the small number of cases where a strong case can be made that this should be an exception to the general rule. And stick such names into a list in the guidelines when they come up. There won't be many. Jallan 22:24, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Wait a minute -- these indents have gotten out of hand. That said, the thrust of my two cents is that we must always keep in mind a basic question: how is anybody gonna find it? Always make sure there is _something_ at the basic level, like Ceres -- regardless what is on that page. In the case of Jupiter, the overwhelming usage is about the planet, and a tag line at the top can direct one to the disambig page. In the case of Ceres, my call would be for the mythology entry to have the main slot, and a redirect from Ceres (mythology). Ask (in your mind) the man on the street, and also keep in mind that in thie wikiworld a single usage constitutes a pattern -- if Ceres (mythology) exists, then Jupter (mythology) must also; a visitor will see an item and infer a pattern and use it. ;Bear 16:29, 2004 Nov 12 (UTC)

Search only picking up old articles

I already asked this at the Helpdesk, but I thought I would try here to see if I got a different response. Why is it that using the wikipedia search feature I am unable to find any article that was created since October 6th? Is this just the normal rate at which new pages are indexed for searching or is something wrong? Martyman 02:36, 7 Nov 2004 (UTC)

What Wikipedia search feature? <KF> 19:29, Nov 9, 2004 (UTC)

Maybe it's the Google search of wikipedia space that is in questino here. Guaranteed to be at least a little behind. ;Bear 22:49, 2004 Nov 11 (UTC)

It was the normal "type the word in the box at the left and click search" Wikipedia search feature, not the google version. I just got back from holiday today and the search is picking up the articles in question, so either it is now fixed or there is always a month or so delay between page creation and search indexing. Martyman 07:43, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)

AFAIK, there is indeed such a delay in the indexing. I remeber one time Wikipedia was slow and one of the developers said it was because they were updating the search index. JesseW 02:32, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Incorrect message

When an edit screen for a new Talk page is opened up (the Talk page does not currently exist), Wikipedia displays "Wikipedia does not yet have a page called xxx". It should say "Wikipedia does not yet have a page called Talk:xxx". The "xxx" page DOES exist. RickK 07:20, Nov 7, 2004 (UTC)

I've changed this in MediaWiki:Newarticletext. It will now say "Wikipedia does not yet have a Talk page called..." Angela. 08:38, Nov 7, 2004 (UTC)

Uploadf file format

I used to upload OpenOffice.org *.sxd source files of my drawings so that others can easily manipulate them. However, this is no longer possible, and I get the suggestion that ".sxd" is not a recommended image file format. Can this be changed back or is there a way to upload these files? Same for the commons. Thanks. -- 14:42, Nov 7, 2004 (UTC)

The cursor in the search box

Just on an extremely pedantic note, I find it a lot more convenient if, when first opening up a search-oriented page such as wikipedia, the cursor is placed in the 'search' box. This allows one to immediately type the query without using the mouse. (google, merriam webster, etc have this feature)

good users on a banned ip

My school's IP has understandably been banned from Wikipedia because acts of vandalism have sadly been committed from it. But surely I, a constructive Wikipedian, when I log in there, should be allowed to edit, even if though I am using a banned (public) IP. I'm suggesting that the software be changed so that a trusted user can edit from a banned IP. This would prevent Wikipedians being blocked at public IPs, such as libraries, schools etc. Of course, to stop vandals exploiting this, banned IPs would need to be blocked from creating users.

This is a marvelous idea, one of those "why didn't they think of it sooner" sort of things. If this is at ALL technically possible, it should be implemented post-haste. --Dante Alighieri | Talk 02:33, Nov 9, 2004 (UTC)

The idea isn't new, IIRC I read it here before. And it is already listed on Bugzilla as a feature request: [1] andy 10:48, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Math rendering borked?

Anyone know what happened here? I tried about a dozen different formatting options, and none worked. Scroll down to $\aleph _{1}$. --Dante Alighieri | Talk 02:32, Nov 9, 2004 (UTC)

Section headings are notoriously sensitive as to what can be put in them. Try it now, see if that suits. HTH HAND --Phil | Talk 10:08, Nov 10, 2004 (UTC)

An odd user name

Please see http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Special:Contributions&target=2001:770:102:1:205:5dff:feee:959b. How was this User ID generated and why is there no link to a User page? RickK 07:18, Nov 9, 2004 (UTC)

It's an IPv6 IP - i.e. an anonymous user. — Kate Turner | Talk 07:33, 2004 Nov 9 (UTC)

OK, the IPv6 article is all over my head, does this mean that the address can't be linked back to a particular site? Should it be blocked as an anonymizer? RickK 07:49, Nov 9, 2004 (UTC)

It's just another type of IP address. AFAIK, it should be treated the same as a normal anon. JesseW 08:13, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Cool. First time I've seen one of these in the wild, outside a telecommunications lecture! zoney ♣ talk 12:24, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Experimental support for them was added by Kate Turner a couple of weeks ago. For a while wikipedia had a AAAA record pointing at it, but apparently there's been some connection reliability problems so it was removed. -- Cyrius|✎ 16:15, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Very cool! :). I have promised myself to play with IPv6 when I have the time... Thue | talk 16:18, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I'm a new registered user, & I have a Talk page. After I add comments on the Discussion pages, how do I post that link to my Talk page.

Special:Whatlinkshere does not show anything for images

I stumbled over a problem that I first thought of as a browser cache problem, but in fact, it is not. I have tested on several platforms and with several browsers, and the problems persists: When you link to an image, the link will not show on its "Special:Whatlinkshere" page. It shows on the image's page under the "File links" section, though. Is this a bug and if yes, what can be done about it?

timo 14:23, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)

International nuisance

As mentioned before by me in "Weirdness with an IP" and by an anon in Wikipedia:Village_pump#This_is_it.2C_I_want_final.2C_complete.2C_answers.21, the IP address thing in MediaWiki is pathetic. People whose IPs aren't 64.12.117.7 have been getting this really dynamic address.

It's appeared for users in Austria, Austria, Canada (5 of 13 provinces), Denmark, Finland, Hong Kong, Israel, The Netherlands, New Zealand, Philippines, Portugal, Russia, Serbia and Montenegro, Switzerland, United Kingdom, and United States of America (10 states). That's 16 countries, not including Wales and Scotland.

Although some have enjoyed this "New United Nations", or even "New World Order", since they can "talk to a whole bunch of people around the world", it really has been a complete turn off Wikipedia for others. Many are getting aggrevated, asking "what the hell is this about", and "why the fuck was this new message sent to me of all people", and yes, they linked to that article.

Although I know the developer have better things to be doing, this is getting silly. Personally, I like this international wall for graffiti of sorts, but many may just be leaving as soon as they get this page. -- user:zanimum

Osnabrück, Germany (a new country), Acton, Massachusetts and Buffalo, New York have been added to the list since I posted this. This is quickly snowballing out of control. -- user:zanimum

That IP address is an AOL proxy server, so it gets a lot of use. Additionally, there was until recently a bug which sometimes caused pages showing the "you have new messages" to get saved in the cache and re-sent to other users who are not using that IP address; due to AOL's situation an AOL proxy address has a great chance of a) receiving messages about vandalism and b) that message getting displayed frequently and c) thus getting saved and re-sent to other people due to the bug. This bug has, I sincerlely hope, finally been squished as of a couple days ago. There may still be some remaining cached pages showing the message, but they should get flushed out fairly soon. --Brion 07:15, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I have uploaded a video to the Wikipedia !!!

With the assistance of User:Robert Merkel, I have uploaded a video in the Ogg Theora video format. The file is located at Media:Hypertrophic_Cardiomyopathy_-_Echocardiogram_-_Sam.ogg, and is linked into the article on hypertrophic cardiomyopathy. Any assistance in getting the file to play automatically when loading the page would be much appreciated. Ksheka 01:31, Nov 11, 2004 (UTC)

I'd advise against that. Not everyone has high-speed/DSL/cable stuff. Let users click to play, anything else will just hurt older systems and weaker modems. -- user:zanimum

The nice thing about the video I uploaded is it's relatively small size: 613 kb. I may be able to cut that in half (by showing two or three cardiac cycles instead of four and by cropping a bit closer to the actual image) if it's possible to play automatically on page load. No point in optimizing otherwise.Ksheka 02:11, Nov 11, 2004 (UTC)

It's possible to tweak the ogg compression a bit higher to reduce the filesize as well. However, I don't think loading video automatically is a good idea - it tends to be browser and platform specific (particularly considering that Theora is not yet universally distributed), and it's a big imposition on dialup users on slow pipes (my Dad, for instance...). What would be better is for a well-chosen frame from the video to appear as a picture in the article, and a "click to download video" button. --Robert Merkel 04:37, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I don't want it automatic on my crappy dialup connection. ;Bear 22:43, 2004 Nov 11 (UTC)

Okay. How about this as a goal: 1. Show a selective frame of the video. The caption should include something like "select image to play video". When the image is selected, the video should play within the browser (as opposed to spawning a new media player window). While I've seen this sort of thing done with windows media files, I'm not sure if this is possible with ogg theora formated files. :-( Any suggestions? Ksheka 16:38, Nov 13, 2004 (UTC)

Upload summary

Seems like the summary field on the upload page is asking for more information than can comfortably be put into a single-line field. Why not make a multi-line field? ;Bear 22:39, 2004 Nov 11 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlanta_Falcons 1998 99 season record

If I am not mistaked the Falcons regular season record for 1998-99 was 13-3, not 14-2. Please research and correct this if neccessary.

Calvin

level of page protection

What do folks think about instigating a new level of page protection that would allow only logged in users, to edit pages. Presently, sysops can protect a page and edit it, but some controversial issues should really be edited by people who can be held accountable, but don't meet any of the crierion for protection. So, sysops would be able to half-protect a page. Any thoughts on this? Dunc|☺ 15:40, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)

How do you avoid people then claiming that every page needs this sort of protection? Would it lead to anonymous users not being allowed to edit articles at all? Angela. 11:57, Nov 15, 2004 (UTC)

Editing glitch

In my hasty move of Chirality (chemistry) from Chirality, I forgot to remove the heading. When I edited the page to remove the heading, nothing changed. The change appears in page history, but the errant heading is still displayed. --Smack 01:00, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Move or copy photographs to Commons?

I have nearly two hundred of my own photographs (all GFDL) that I would like to move or copy from the English Wikipedia to the Commons, and if possible, along with the image pages. Is there a fast way to do this? Fg2 10:23, Nov 15, 2004 (UTC)

Gerrit has a bot which can upload images on the Commons. Perhaps this could be adapted to copy/move images from en as well. It might be worth asking on the Commons:Village pump or asking Gerrit directly. Angela. 12:14, Nov 15, 2004 (UTC)

Pre-emption of fancruft?

To head off misunderstandings, let me state I'm not using "fancruft" in the pejorative sense, only in the sense of "a level of detail that would be appropriate for a wiki about the series itself but inappropriate for a general-interest encyclopedia." With that said... I've been seeing an explosion of fancruft, and I suspect one of the sources is someone who compiles a complete "list of X from series Y" and creates red links for every minute detail -- for an example, I present InuYasha special items and attacks, which doesn't just create a wikilink for every "special item and attack" -- in some cases it creates separate links for the Japanese name of the attack and the English name.

What I would like to see is some VfD-like mechanism for such lists that allows the community to say "This is just far too much detail; we don't need separate articles for every single item on this list." Right now we are faced with trying to spot these excesses as they're generated; if we try to eliminate the red-links before they generate the cruft, we're attacked for doing so without consensus. -- Antaeus Feldspar 17:42, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)

On the same subject, may I suggest adding "Wikipedia is not a strategy guide" to Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not? -- Antaeus Feldspar 20:00, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Strange Editing Problems

I am having editing problems with Fyshwick, Australian Capital Territory. If you look at the diffs [2] and [3] you can see JackOfOz's addition gets reverted by my next edit but doesn't show in the diff for my edit. Very strange... Martyman 02:11, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)

If I'm reading the diffs correctly, JackOfOz deleted some words, you added a category tag, then you undid JackOfOz's change with the comment "redo changes made by JackofOz that wouldn't hold???". --Brion 07:08, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Ok... You are right. Maybe I should pay more attention in future. I was sure JackOfOz had added those words not removed them. No wonder I confused myself when they had dissapeared. Oh well, I might revert it back to his version.. Thanks. Martyman 12:57, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)

quick contact of wikipedia administrator

There needs to be some kind of e-mail address made available to the public about problems with Wikipedia. This is to help with issues like the TOTALLY INAPPROPRIATE image that is right now appearing on the Wikipedia front page, which seems to have been hacked into the feature article, Felix the Cat. I have been searching the Wikipedia site for someone to contact about this disgusting problem. I can't find any easy ways to contact anyone.

The image problem has been fixed. JesseW 02:43, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Erroneous tooltip in the sidebar

The tooltip for the Related changes link in the sidebar (in Monobook) is in error. It reads:

Recent changes in pages linking to this page [alt-k]

when in fact Special:Recentchangeslinked shows changes to pages linked from the page. How can this be changed? —No-One Jones ^(m) 06:37, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I've fixed this in MediaWiki:Monobook.js. (May take a bunch of cache flushing to get the change to show up for you.) Probably needs to be fixed on the other wikis as well. --Brion 07:02, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Image with 'white bleed'

On Template:Province Utrecht, the flag graphic has white space to the left and bottom of the image. This is misleading about the flag (which is mostly white in the top half), and I tried some fixes by preview (in particular, the div tag style often used on main page templates). I still haven't found a method that reliably removes the white space while keeping the same basic presentation it has now. Any advice? Radagast 13:34, Nov 17, 2004 (UTC)

Some flag images on Wikipedia have a very faint grey border on white areas. Adding such a border may or may not be acceptable to those concerned (as such an addition is not part of the actual flag). zoney ♣ talk 13:48, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Got it working now... I used the table markup to position it, instead of the 'right' in the image markup. Radagast 17:49, Nov 17, 2004 (UTC)

Edit Specialpages

Hello!

How can I edit the Specialpages (e.g. Special:Lonelypages)? In the german Wikipedia, we want to set a link on de:Special:Lonelypages to a more actual List of orphaned pages. Thanks, [[User:Rdb|rdb]] 16:18, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

You can't edit special pages, but you can edit MediaWiki:Perfcached which will appear at the top of all special pages while caching is turned on (which it usually is). Angela. 21:04, Nov 18, 2004 (UTC)

Implementation of wiki

I have implemented my own wiki using the mediawiki and I have been having problems with 2 things.

1) I have a page that is quite long 30000-40000 words. When I update the page and check the history to get the diff, it just hangs than just gets a plain white screan (in the browser). How can I fix this?

2) How can I change the navigation, and layout of the mediawiki?

thanx

This belongs more on MediaWiki help, and not on Wikipedia. Sorry. --Golbez 02:41, Nov 18, 2004 (UTC)

The help guide might answer your question. If not, try the Mediawiki-l mailing list. Angela. 21:05, Nov 18, 2004 (UTC)

What version of Wikipedia is this?

I need to cite this website in a bibliography but I can't find what version this is. Can someone please help me?

See Wikipedia:Citing Wikipedia. Wikipedia has no "version", so what you want is the date of last revision. -- Cyrius|✎ 03:30, 18 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Embedding templates within templates

Is there any reason why templates can not be embedded within templates more than one layer? For example: Template:stubs has templates which use a general template for creating stubs: Template:Metastub. But when you apply Template:stubs to a page, all you see is the Template:Metastub rather than the supposed text for the template. --[[User:AllyUnion|AllyUnion (talk)]] 11:22, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I think you will find that the reason for this particular problem is that there is a hard-coded limit to the number of times a single template may be embedded in a single article. This was intended to avoid vandalism. I believe that the problem is in the process of being fixed. You are indeed allowed to embed templates within templates and I believe that there is no particular limit to that. HTH HAND --Phil | Talk 12:27, Nov 19, 2004 (UTC)

I keep getting justified paragraphs and non-underlined links.

This is driving me crazy. Suddenly for no obvious reason, I still start seeing every page rendered as if the "underline links" box in my preferences were un-checked and the "justify paragraphs" box were checked.

It happens to me both in Safari on a Mac running OS X 10.3.5 and on IE on a PC running Windows 2K, so it isn't a browser issue.

As of right now (Safari, Mac OS X 10.3.5)

It only occurs when I am logged into my own account. If I log out I see the normal default appearance.

When I am logged into my account and select Preferences, Misc. Settings I see "underline links" checked and "justify paragraphs" un-checked. I have just tried all of the following:

a) Change both of these settings, click "save," change both of them back, click "save" again. b) Check "disable page caching" in Preferences and click "save. c) Delete all cookies on my browser. d) Empty all caches on my browser. e) Command-R until the cows come home. f) Edit a page, replace the word "edit" in the URL bar with the word "purge" and press return.

I am still seeing non-underlined links (which I could tolerate) and justified text (which drives me plumb bananas).

Any ideas? I've completely run out of ideas for things to remove or purge or delete. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith (talk)]] 21:29, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)

P. S. I'm using the Monobook skin. I see un-justified text and underlined links when I change to the Classic skin, but they changed back to justified text and non-underlined links if I change back to Monobook. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith (talk)]] 21:33, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)

P. P. S. Hmmm... I tried one last thing. I am no longer experiencing the problem. I went into Preferences. I CHECKED "Justify Paragraphs." I left it checked. I pressed command-R. No longer justified, and the checkbox was no longer checked. I don't say this is cause and effect. I do say... WTF? [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith (talk)]] 21:35, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)

There's a known problem with the way some of the preferences are currently implemented; the wrong version can easily get stuck in the browser cache and it's hard to get it to update consistently. We're hoping to fix this up... --Brion 10:06, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Japanese kana

I've been doing some work on a Japanese topic. Naturally, I thought I might find some additional information on the Japanese version of Wikipedia. Here's the problem - though I can read Japanese, every kana appears as no more than a little box. How can I get the characters to display properly? Adam Marx 00:59, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Can you read other Japanese web sites? Make sure you have appropriate fonts installed. If you're on Windows, check in the 'Regional and Language Options' in Control Panel, or the extras available in Windows Update for some older Windows versions. --Brion 10:06, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Searching - Clusty

Why do we recommend using this relatively unknown search engine? [[User:Dmn|Dmn / Դմն ]] 01:38, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Clusty has a Wikipedia-specific search. Apparently some people find this to be a useful way of searching for materials on Wikipedia when our internal search is down for reindexing. --Brion 10:06, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Cool [[User:Dmn|Dmn / Դմն ]] 12:51, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Renaming an image?

I've uploaded an image, and the system automatically gave it the same silly name it had on my computer. I tried using 'move' to a new name, but that didn't work. How do I rename the image? The image is currently called [[Image:Scan0007.jpg]] , and it is a picture of Yehoshua Bar-Hillel. --Woggly 08:47, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)

You can't rename an image currently. Upload it under a new name, then delete the original. --Brion 10:06, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Thanks. Next question: how do I delete the original? --Woggly 10:36, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)

If the two are identical, put a {{delete}} tag on one of them and explain where the new version is. There is a also an Images for deletion page. Angela. 13:51, Nov 21, 2004 (UTC)