Talk:Franz Liszt

Comtesse or Countess

"the Comtess d'Agoult". Comtess skould be either Comtesse or Countess.
S.

It's Comtesse, I think - I'll change it. --Camembert

Hungarian Rhapsodies

The reference to "Hungarian Rhapsody" was added by an anonymous user, who apparently wasn't aware that Liszt wrote 19 of them. Which one do you reckon he/she was thinking of? #2, perhaps? --Ortonmc 03:08, 15 Sep 2003 (UTC)

I guess so. Somebody's made Hungarian Rhapsody as well, so there's a bit of tidying up needed. I'll see what I can do tonight if nobody gets there before me. --Camembert

I've replaced the old page with the singular title with Hungarian Rhapsodies. Eventually we might want an individual page for each, but that's some way in the future, methinks. --Camembert

I am very confused by the numbering of Liszt's Hungarian Rhapsody! I have a Naxos CD, 8.550327, which contains a Hungarian Rhapsody No. 2 in C#m, arranged for orchestra. In the program notes it is read, "Hungarian Rhapsody, No. 2 (No. 12) the most popular of Liszt's Hungarian Rhapsodies, No. 2 in the orchestral arrangements the composer made with the aid of Franz Doppler, and No. 12 in the set of 19 for piano, was composed in 1853 and dedicated to the young virtuoso violinist Joseph Joachim, who that year had brought Brahms to visit him. ..."

But when I listen to a DVD Kissin (The Gift of Music), he plays Liszt's Hungarian Rhapsody No. 12 in C#m, it is totally a different piece! And I've tried to search for Hungarian Rhapsody in google, it is strange that many websites give a different numbering, some of them have the No. 2 in GbM, some of them C#m, some of them Dm! And the most problematic is Liszt has written two Hungarian Rhapsody in C#m, and some websites have listed No. 2 C#m and No. 12 C#m. It is really confusing. Could anyone help to give an answer? 203.186.238.243 20:07, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Franz (sometimes Ferenc) Liszt

Sometimes Ferenc? What is the original full Hungarian name? Rafał Pocztarski 11:54, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Liszt is known as Ferenc, the Hungarian version of his name, in Hungary. However, Liszt's family were German-speaking (rather snobbishly so, since Austria was the dominant partner in the empire) and Liszt himself spoke only very poor Hungarian and always used the German version of his name. -- Necrothesp 13:33, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC)

So the situation is somewhat similar to that of Chopin in Poland, who is known as Fryderyk Franciszek Chopin (sometimes even ‘Szopen’ though usually ‘Chopin’ and in any case always ‘Fryderyk’) but who himself changed the name to French “Frédéric-François.” I was wondering whether “Franz (sometimes Ferenc) Liszt” shouldn’t be something in the lines of “Franz (real name Ferenc) Liszt” but now I see that ‘Franz’ is not only a German version of his real name (like e.g. “Franciszek Liszt” is a popular Polish version) but it is the real name itself, so in fact there is no “original full Hungarian name”—sorry for the loaded question. So the Polish article Ferenc Liszt should be renamed to Franz Liszt, as should the CD I recorded this morning... I stand corrected, thanks a lot. Rafał Pocztarski 00:02, 22 Aug 2004 (UTC)

On the other hand, the modern Hungarians do always refer to him as Ferenc (presumably for reasons of national pride, since he's their national composer and they don't want to use a foreign-sounding name). -- Necrothesp 03:13, 22 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Thanks. The original name is Franz and that is what in my opinion should be used in the title, unless some other form of the name is much more popular in the language of the article in question—thus Ferenc in Hungarian. For anyone speaking Polish, this subject is just being discussed on pl Ferenc Liszt talk page right now. Rafał Pocztarski 20:46, 22 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Oh, I agree entirely. The name he used is the name we should use. -- Necrothesp 00:11, 23 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I think that is is abosolutly great that this many people have an opinion. I play Liszt for a living and this is what I have to say. I know that Brahms wrote Hungarian Dances but as far as Rhapsodies that are Hungarian I beleive only Liszt wrote those. I only teach Liszt and have only studied Liszt. I think it is very good. I also think tha twe should put samples of all the Hungairans on there I will work on that.--24.155.163.13 03:00, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Organization

I think the biographical information here would be more readable if organized similarly to how Haydn and Chopin are seperated into sub sections and headers. Thoughts? --Sketchee 17:19, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I went boldly ahead! I think it works but feel free to rename the sections, etc. --Sketchee 13:59, Nov 26, 2004 (UTC)

Nationism

Dear wikifriends, in book Franz Liszt, compositeur slovaque (Paperback), Miroslav Benko, L'Age d'Homme Editions (2003), ISBN: 2825117897 is written, that F. Liszt has slovak nationality.

"Of the other Hungarian 19th century and early 20th century composers, Bartok's place of birth is today in Romania and Dohnanyi's in Slovakia; that of Kodály still remains in the 40% of Hungary which stands as the remnants of the country."

This was removed as it probably shouldn't be here. I thought I'd just save it in case anyone wants something to develop a page on Nationalism in music or even a section on the nationalism page. --Sketchee 01:16, Jan 2, 2005 (UTC)

Is Christoph von Dohnányi a composer anyway? The original author may have been referring to his grandfather, if and when that section is written Schissel : bowl listen 03:15, Apr 29, 2005 (UTC)

To my knowledge, Liszt is commonly referred to as a Hungarian composer, which is an image he helped to promulgate, but I believe that he actually does not have any Hungarian ancestry. He was Austrian. --11/21/05

He was not Austrian, but an ethnic German Hungarian. As he said: "Je suis Hongrois".

According to my knowledge his father Adam Liszt was Slovak since both his parents (Juraj (eng. Georg) List and Barbara Šlesáková) were Slovaks (both his parents and Adam Liszt were speaking slovak as a first language). It implies that he (Franz Liszt) has Slovak German origin and not Hungarian German. He also learned hungarian as a second language and never used it extensively. So to call him hungarian composer is possible only in the context of 19th century since he was born in Austria-Hungary Empire which consisted of Austria, Hungary, Bohemia, Moravia, Slovakia, and parts of Poland, Romania, Slovenia, Croatia, and Italy. But to oversimplify and to relate him exclusively to present Hungary now in 21st century is really impropriate. My source is the book "Franz Liszt, compositeur slovaque", author Miroslav Demko, publisher Lausanne : Editions L'âge d'homme, 2003. This book is available in the library of the University of Oxford. I want to ask people really interested in this article to check upon this information. Iambilko 04:23, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Liszt was German Hungarian. His Slovak origin is a nationalistic fabrication.

That is possible. But what are your sources? I've presented my source and in some way I trust the authority of University of Oxford. I believe they include non-fictional book into their archive after some consideration (and this one is from 2003, relatively new one, so it can present a new discoveries on the subject of Franz Liszt). For instance let's look onto Sándor Petőfi, national hungarian poet, whose father was Serbian and mother was Slovak but because they lived in Austrian Empire (in the Hungary part) he claimed himself as Hungarian since Hungary that time strongly forced other nations to convert themselves to be Hungarian. Any other nation (from the hungarian part of the empire) during that time was strongly oppressed by Hungarians. And these are the facts. And again, I'm not saying that it is true (I mean Slovak German origin of Franz Liszt), but there are new sources which claim something different. And according to the really strong anti-nationalistic politics of the 19th century's Hungary (the fact) I am inclined to believe that this might be the true. Another example is that before the year 1918 many people would say that they are Hungarian and after 1918 they became Serbian, Slovak, Romanian, Pole, Hungarian. And please don't take this personally. I'm just keen to know how is it. Iambilko 22:24, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

First of all we need to understand what we mean with an ethnic hungarian. Hungarians are generally considered to be the most mixed ethnicity in Europe. Actually, most hungarians have also slav and german ancestry, more or less, as well as other ethnicity. Liszt had to. The name Liszt and that family may have had, with a high probability, same roots as a transylvanian-hungarian family named Liszty, Liszthy, Liszthiusz etc. That family was hungarian-speaking already in the 1500-century.A part of this family moved to the very same parts of Hungary where the composer had his relatives. Most of of the Liszt family were lutherans as the lutheran Liszts that moved from Transsylvania to the northern parts of what now is Burgenland. Probably Liszt is a descendant of this family. If this is true he might have some remote ancestry with the Hunyady family! According to Liszts statements and according to photos of him his mongoloid features are sometimes recognizable. This could mean that he had magyar roots. The mongoloid element in central europe is associated with the magyar tribes or some proto-magyar ones as the avars or the more distant huns. From an anthropological point of wiev Liszt had magyar ancestry with the uttermost probability. What is most important is however his own feeling in the matter. In this respect he was without doubt hungarian. He was even a nationalistic hungarian. And among nationalistic hungarians he was among the most excessively so. It doesn´t matter at all that he besides magyar also had german, austrian and different slav forefathers. Beside this he seemes to have had roumanian as well. It is quite sure that he had magyar, german and slav roots, as most hungarians do have. The name Liszt is according to bartok slavic. That doesn´t mean that it is slovakian. Some of Liszts ancestors on his fathers side wore the name Slezak. The name Schlezak is a germanized western-slav name. Probably it is czech or moravian and not originaly slovakian. The Slezaks probably however mixed with slovakians and probably magyars as well. On the other hand there are several milion people of mixed slovakian hungarian ancestry. Most of these consider themselves hungarian. Petöfi is one good example. Petöfi had however some magyar ancestry on his mothers side, but she was predominantely of slovak origin.

25 Aug 2006 Laszlo IG Schüszler

HELLO, I live near Edelstal (Burgenland) where Adam Liszt was born. As far as I know, Adam List was german-slovakian descent. Maria Anna Lager, Franz Liszts Mother, was German (born in Lower Austria, a german part of the monarchy). Adam Liszt changed the name from the german "List" to "Liszt" so that the Hungarians spell the name correct. Franz Liszt was born in West-Hungary, in which Germans, Croatians and Hungarians live together, the majority of that part of hungary were germans and they spoke german. Hungary was a part of the Austrian empire (later Austrian-Hungarian monarchy). Later, after WorldWar I, the people of West-hungary ("Deutsch-Westungarn") voted for the unification with the Republic of Austria (now called "Burgenland"). MY OPINION: Liszts ethnicity is German(mother austrogerman, father German/slovakian). His Fatherland was the Austrian Empire, but his Homeland Hungary, where he was born and he grow up, so Liszt loved the hungarians and their culture very much. Was Liszt a German in Austria or Hungaria, or a Hungarian with German ethnicity??? I think both :) (Sorry for my poor english! Greetings from Burgenland, former German-West-hungary!)

Liszt and Beethoven

The section about Liszt's meeting with Beethoven takes up way too much place IMO. It is interesting though, so I suggest we move it to a separate article (e.g. Liszt and Beethoven) and reduce it to a single sentence or so within the main article, with a link to the new article. — Pladask 12:57, Feb 20, 2005 (UTC)

Like Sketchee, I went boldly ahead. :-) I think this is much better. — Pladask 18:20, Apr 17, 2005 (UTC)

Question about audio sample, and reading..

Audio sample- in the media sample, what's Au bord d'une? (Resolves to download that audio sample soon, but if it turns out to be Au bord d'une source, it really should be labeled as such)

Reading- a further reading section with e.g. biography references may be good (I'd nominate Walker's, unsurprisingly, for instance.) Schissel : bowl listen 03:02, Apr 29, 2005 (UTC)

I did a futher reading section, with of course the Walker books and some others which Liszt enthusiasts may be interested in. Looks like the 'au bord d'une' has been changed, my PC doesnt want to play it, but Im sure its right. I've looked at works lists and its the only one like it. —M A Mason

I checked it, the audio's definitely right Tedneeman 23:59, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

Website with Searle / Raabe catalogue numbers?

The current link at the end of Noted Works is 404. I know a couple good sites that list Searle numbers (liszt.dk, lisztworks.com), but neither lists Raabe numbers.

One commercial site (www.hungaroton.hu - e.g. Recording of Les Quatre Élémens) lists Raabe nos. in cataloging their Liszt recordings, but other sites seem to be scarce on the ground, yes. Schissel : bowl listen 05:38, May 31, 2005 (UTC)

Or it might have been a typo- this link has some of the information? Schissel : bowl listen 05:49, May 31, 2005 (UTC)

Unnecessary stuff

Many articles about musicans or composers etc on wikipedia start with "is considered to be the greatest/best..." or something like that, like in this article "Possibly the greatest virtuoso of all time". Adding things like that is just unnecessary and stupid, weather he/she/it is good or not is highly subjective. It's just as stupid as "This is Franz Lizst(for example), some people like him, some don'ta". As if peoples oppinions would change if they found out he is appreciated by some. Thats one the problem with society, people care to much what other people thing.

Well to get on topic again: Less of that stuff.

While I agree that "Possibly the greatest virtuoso of all time" is a little too POV-ish, he was, and is still widely considered to have been just that, with the numerous legends and stories attached to his life. And you must surely agree that it would be downright silly to rule out such an essential fact in his biography. :-) – Pladask 12:50, August 6, 2005 (UTC)

Third concerto

There is third concerto in Eb major too.

Yes, a performance was broadcast on SBS TV (Australia) some years ago. I seem to remember this was claimed to be by Liszt but conclusive proof is lacking. JackofOz 23:04, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Anti-semitic claims

Franz Liszt is a musical hero to me. However, there should be some mention of his anti-semitic views, even if its justs a blurb.

Was he really anti-semitic? I know that Alan Walker argues that he was wrongly accused of it. I have however heard that he made some comments that could be construed in that way, same for Chopin. I'm not saying it's not true, just that if it is mentioned it needs to be balanced and properly sourced. I'm in two minds as to whether or not it's noteworthy, true or not I don't think he was ever hostile to anyone because of any views that he had, or indeed was public about it, as Wagner was. Wagner's music is apparently banned in Israel due to his anti-semitism, and as far as I'm aware there are no such restrictions on Liszt's music, which shows to me that perhaps if he were an anti-semite, he wasn't active, if you catch my drift. I'd be interested to hear others opinions on this. M A Mason 02:03, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

I'm not sure, I guess I really don't know. I sure would like to find out. Thank you for posting, as this is the first time I've heard about Alan Walker. I would really like to find any analysis of evidence, letters, correspondance, etc. that could shed some light either way.

After a bit of digging, it appears that Alan is the most comprehensive source on Liszt to date. Also, I would add:

Franz Liszt: A Guide to Research by Michael Saffle

Contained within Saffle's book is a reference to the following book:

Liszt: A Self-portrait in His Own Words, ed. David Whitwell. Northridge, CA: Winds, 1986. vii, 242 pp. ML410.L7A164 1986.

"A summary of Liszt's life, character, and activities drawn from the composer's letters, essays, and other documents. Includes observations made by Liszt on the Jews, the peoples of various nations, and a variety of individuals--among them, Bach, Ludwig II of Bavaris, Tolstoy, and Wagner."(Saffle)

Perhaps 'ol Liszt got a bad rap? I think you may be correct. Gstejska 08:45, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Here's one more source:

Riehn, Rainer. "Wilder die Verunglimpfung des Andenkens Verstorbener. Liszt soll Antisemit gewesen sein...." pp. 100-14

Keep in mind that people were generally much more anti-semitic and racist in the 19th century than they are today. It is easy for us to criticize people from 200 years ago, as if we would have been different had we lived back then. Chances are we would not, because it was simply accepted by white Christians that nonwhites and jews were racially inferior. That said, I've never seen any evidence that Liszt was anti-semitic. I can't give you a footnote, but I recall reading a bit of a letter from Liszt to (I believe) the Princess Sayn-Wittgenstein encouraging her to meet & hear a new student of his, "though he is of the tribe of Jacob." That student was Carl Tausig, a Jew and one of Liszt's star pupils, to whom Liszt was especially devoted, and whose death at age 29 was bitterly mourned by Liszt, as Tausig was said to remind Liszt of his own son Daniel who had similarly died young some 12 years before.

\\David Curtin, Lock Haven USA 9/1/06

Gstejska 22:40, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Walker discusses this especially in the book (which I seem to refer to a lot.. hrm) Franz Liszt: The Weimar Years, 1848-1861. The two books which have been used most often, according to Walker, to make the case that Liszt was antisemitic were the last edition of his book on Chopin, and even more, the second edition of his book on the Gypsies and Their Music (I don't have the exact title here, nor Walker's book.) Caroline von Sayn-Wittgenstein, who he loved and almost married was an anti-Semite, and he gave much of the work of revising those books to her in his later years, and I gather he only discovered what she added to the second book especially- which contained some horrible slurs - when it was late to do anything about it, and then did not reveal her part in it out of misplaced chivalry. That said: this is what I remember of his account, will add page number sources and corrections when I have the book in front of me, and I'm not really positive. Schissel-nonLop! 18:56, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

no mention of his invention of tone poem

Franz Liszt is famous for his invention of the tone poem, or symphonic poem. The Wiki 'symphonic poem' article mentions this fact, and links to Liszt, but there is no mention in the actual Liszt article about his invention. It might be prudent to include this, as well as a link in a paragraphed section other than a listing of his works, which could be quickly skimmed over & missed.

What makes Liszt hungarian?

What was it? His mother was german. His father was magyarised german. He DIDN`T EVEN SPOKE HUNGARIAN!!!!!!!!!!! Can anyone show me just one prove that Frantz Liszt spoke hungarian? A letter, a journal, anything! NO YOU CAN`T!!! Because he didn`t spoke hungarian. Even if he didn`t, is there any prove that he ever called, or considered himself "magyar"? Greier 18:58, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

ACtually Franz Liszt did consider himself Hungarian, and true he didn't know the language very well..he was half Austrian. Adam Liszt was Hungarian, born in Hungary, worked with a Hungarian family, has a Hungarian surname and Hungarian diacratics on name. Where is the evidence that he was 100% German? Leave the sentence as it was before 65.185.213.33 changed it without reason

Liszt was clearly Hungarian. He was of course born there himself, lived their for 10 years, the Hungarians hailed him as a national hero on his returns there, let's not forget the decorations and nationalistic awards he recieved (I'm thinking of the that sword of honour, or whatever it's called). He wrote a lot of music inspired by Hungary; the Rhapsodies, the Hungarian romanzeros, the Hungarian character portraits and so on... Admitedly so did Brahms for example... but what it does show is that in his heart Liszt was Hungarian. He certainly tried to speak Hungarian, there's a letter he sent to his mother which begins in Hungarian, but goes into French, his preferred language - but was he French? No. Of course he wasn't. Language certainly doesn't determine nationality.

And finally, I won't keep you much longer, Liszt writing to Caroline about his identification with the magyars: "Nothing elsewhere can replace these things, and the physiognomy of the race, when they are linked to childhood memories and when one has kept in tact that tonality of the heart which is a feeling for one's fatherland" (Franz Liszt the Weimar years - Alan Walker, p. 404). Good enough for me.M A Mason 12:03, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

More sources:

"I am Hungarian, and I do not know a greater happiness than to introduce to my beloved country the first fruits of my education and studies-as the first expression of my gratitude. What is missing yet of my maturity I intend to acquire with lasting diligence, and perhaps then I will have the good fortune to become a small branch of my country's glory. -Announcing F.Liszt's "homecoming" concert that took place on May 1, 1823 in Pest. (Franz Liszt the Virtuoso years - Alan Walker, p. 87)

When Liszt arrived in Hungary in December 1839, after an absence of sixteen years, he was greeted as a national hero. No other living Hungarian was so widely known. He was, as István Csekey puts it, a "shining star" to the entire Hungarian nation. (CLHS, p.6)

For three generations Liszt's male forbears had worked on Hungarian soil. They loved the country, they identified with its people, they were absorbed in its culture. They lived, they reproduced, and they died in exactly the same way as thousands of other peasant families of Magyar stock. And in the unlikely event of any one of them being questioned about his "nationality", he would have replied, "Hungarian". Given the mass of evidence we now have at our disposal concerning Liszt's family background, it is truly remarkable that so seemingly simple and fundamental a matter as his national identity was ever disputed by modern scholars. (Franz Liszt the Virtuoso years - Alan Walker, p. 48)

Liszt was Hungarian in thought and word and deed. He often said throughout his life that he was Magyar; he never once claimed that he was either French or German. He constantly referred to Hungary as "my homeland" (RGS, vol.2, p.223), and it gave him immense pleasure to write, "I am part of the national pride" (LLB, vol.3, p.77). Liszt was always declaring himself for Hungarian causes. He gave many charity concerts for the people of his country, at which he sometimes appeared wearing national dress. He helped to found the great music academy in Budapest which still bears his name. In 1848 he attempted to buy the humble farm cottage in Raiding where he was born (Acta Mus. no.3877). This does not sound like a man who has no homeland, least of all like a man ashamed of his origins. (Franz Liszt the Virtuoso years - Alan Walker, p. 49)

The fact that Liszt spoke no Hungarian is not important, although Liszt himself always regretted it. Large numbers of nineteenth-century Hungarians never learned their own language. They were part of the Austrian empire and the German tongue dominated their nation, especially the western part of it, where Liszt was born. "I may surely be allowed, in spite of my lamentable ignorance of the Hungarian language, to remain from my birth to the grave Magyar in heart and mind..." -Liszt's letter to Baron Antal Augusz, dated May 7, 1873 (PBUS, p.160)

I'd be more than happy to quote further sources, although if your doubts regarding his national origin remain strong, I would read through Alan Walker's "Frans Liszt-The Virtuoso Years". The prologue section goes through considerable length to establish Liszt's origin. gordonf238

So, bottom line is he was an assimilated Hungarian, whose family were assimilated Hungarians, and he WAS in fact Hungarian even though he came from Germanic stock. Kind of like Lajos Kossuth.....nationality and ethnicity get pretty mushy in Central Europe, the way I see it is if somebody feels Hungarian, calls himself Hungarian and loves Hungary as his homeland, then he's Hungarian. :) K. Lastochka 02:10, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

I like your attitude K. Lastochka :) Who are we to say what nationality he was? He was born in Hungary, and identified as Hungarian. Clearly a hungarian. M A Mason 16:12, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Lager or Lagen

Which is his mother's maiden name - Lager or Lagen? According to this article it's Lagen, but according to the article of Anna Liszt, it's Lager. --1523 15:47, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Lager, according to Alan Walker; I'll change the article, thanks :) M A Mason 16:53, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Road to Pilgrimage section

Can anyone explain to me why this section is so titled? If not I'll change it to something else. Arniep 14:34, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Seemed a good time to change it so I did, to 'Years of Pilgrimage', seemed a lot more appropriate than 'road to pilgrimage' anyway, and it is of course the title of the set of pieces composed at this time. Do change it if you disaprove, thanks M A Mason 19:13, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Liszt, the priest

Does anybody know if Liszt became a priest or something similar. There was a story that he was a ladies' man, and he promised each he will marry them, it never happened. In order to avoid the promise, he studied 4 years to be a priest and he was ordained in 1860's, even though he had kids, he was a widow.

Liszt never became a priest, common misconception. He did, though, take the 4 Minor Orders of the Catholic Church; which, as the article shows, requires neither that the person taking the orders be celibate, nor remain unmarried. It is true that he was a Ladies' man in his day, though to say he promised them all marriage is an exageration. He desperately wanted to marry Princess Caroline however and they even appealed to the Pope for permission but were unsuccessful. His taking of these orders was certainly not to avoid marriage, as he was completely devoted to Caroline, but for purely religious reasons. M A Mason 21:23, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Are you sure

- Old newspapers say he married to avoid marriage and I do not mean to Caroline, but to other ladies, it's possible this happened before he met Caroline. So what kind of 4 orders? Was this similar to a brother? I know he was religious but...

This I think is an example of what I talk about in Liszt's AID (everyone get on there and vote for him!), if you ask me it's just a rumour put about by his critics to damage his reputation. He had relationships with a number of women, Someone St Criq (sp?) was one, then there was Marie and Caroline, and he had an affair with a woman called Agnes Street-Someone. He may have proposed marriage to any or all of them. There is this article about Minor Orders that explains the ins and outs of them. I think it was similar to a brother, I know he lived in a monastery and had the title Abbé, but he was under no obligations to do with marriage. Like I say, little more than a rumour. Where and when did you read about this in an old newspaper, or where did you find out about it? I'd be very interested to know, thanks M A Mason 21:03, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Where did you get your info from

Ok, I know somebody who can give you that file, leave your email here for few days, I will get that person to email you. But if he had women, still, should not even be Abbe. What's AID?

Don't worry about the file, I'll find it myself at some point. And you could have women and be Abbé, he wasn't a monk or a priest etc, he just took the minor orders - helping out at Masses and the like. AID is the article improvement drive where wikipedians vote for an article thtat they all work on to improve it to the standard of a featured article. M A Mason 20:24, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Added a subsection on Liszt's virtuosity

I have added "Liszt's virtuosity and technical reforms" and "piano recital" under Musical style and influence to shed some more light on his pianistic reforms. gordonf238 21:13, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Greatest

Was he greatest or did he get his virtuosity from Chopin? And yea, one of the reasons he was abbot, he wanted to avoid marraige.

As far as I know he and Chopin were both superior pianists when they met at Paris. I don't really understand your question, Chopin didn't teach Liszt and I dont think there's much of a stylistic influence, neither musically nor technically. M A Mason 20:31, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Liszt and Chopin

"Liszt's contemporaries such as Chopin and Schumann saw this kind of worship as vulgar and inappropriate, and eventually came to despise Liszt because of it."

Hmm...it is to my knowledge that the relationship between Chopin and Liszt was love/hate, they were close friends, but they could be envious at times. I think it is far too strong to say despise here, though I am not going to change it without approval. Lots could be said about the relationship between Liszt and Chopin, though I don't know much about Schumann and Liszt o_O — Pmerrill

I support you on the Liszt/Chopin matter. I don't know anything about Schumann and Liszt either -- a source to back this up would be nice. — Pladask 18:11, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

I think I'll go ahead and take out the names altogether, that's pretty harmless, thus making it: "Some of Liszt's contemporaries saw this kind of worship as vulgar and inappropriate, and eventually came to despise Liszt because of it." --Pmerrill 20:53, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Composer-Pianist

Should there be an article named "Composer-Pianist"? It's become a very common phrase phrase, as they are truly a unique breed when compared to regular "concert pianists". There are lots of pianists that could fall under that category, who made a living as both a composer AND a pianist - Liszt, Chopin, Rachmaninoff, Scriabin, Marc-André Hamelin, etc. Is it worth its own article? --Crabbyass 18:58, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

He was also a conductor. He actively promoted the music of Berlioz and Wagner during his Weimar years, and continued to conduct much of his own music for the remainder of his life. I'm open to the idea of mentioning both of these attributes in the opening paragraph Gordon Freeman 15:20, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Freemason?

Broken category- nono. More seriously: I know of no evidence that Liszt was a freemason at all. He was a lay Franciscan as of the mid-1850s and later took minor orders- not inconsistent but not the same as evidence, which is lacking. Schissel | Sound the Note! 21:55, 30 July 2006 (UTC)