Talk:Ayurveda

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Dhanvantari

Dhanvanthari or Dhanvantari is the god of ayurvedic medicine. Why is there a picture of Brahma on this page?? Removing picture of brahma and replacing with dhanvantri. This page makes no mention of dhanvantri which is very very strange --Kaushal mehta 09:40, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

wrong sentence

"Several renowned practitioners of Āyurveda who follow the traditional system of Āyurvedic sciences exist in India. But it is still practiced today."

This sentence appears to be wrong... shouldn't it be "Several renowned practitioners of Āyurveda who follow the traditional system of Āyurvedic sciences exist in India AND it is still practiced today."

POV charges

Hindu medicine is archiac and Ayurveda is Buddhist?

I have removed the reference to Hinduism from Ayurveda. Ayurveda has nothing to do with it. It was developed under the patronge of Emperor Kanishka who was a Buddhist ruler. The comments I have added regarding the development and the death of Ayurveda are taken from the introduction of the book "Preventive and Social Medicine" by Dr Parekh. It is a standard syllabus book for those Doctors pursuing Post Graduate studies in Medicine in India.

I request Wiki to remove this Topic from WikiProject Hinduism. Usurping Ayurveda and calling it a Part of hinduism is a cunning tactic of the Bhramins to cover their crimes. - Yeditor

Yeditor, please sign your comments using two dashes (--) and 4 tilde (~). I think your recent edits are very strong point of views, I would recommend considering Wikipedia:NPOV, Wikipedia:Citing sources as you edit some articles. As for your delinking Hinduism from Ayurveda and ascribing Buddhist patronage to it, it is a theory at most. Please see [1] for theories about Charakas identity (even if he was 'possibly' under Kanishkas patronage, he was still Hindu). See [2] for pre-Charaka history of Ayurveda and its mention in the Vedas. --Pranathi 18:37, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Reverting back to Ayurveda development and death

I am reverting back to ayurveda's development and death. Pranathi in his/her zeal to usurp medicine and make it a part of the Hindu religion forgets that Emperor Kanishka and his doctor Charaka belonged to the Kushan dynasty. There is no relation of the Kushans with any vedic people. Please remember that the word 'Hindu' did not exist at that time. You cannot find the word 'Hindu' in any indian literature before the Mughal invasion.

Moreover, you cannot dispute that Ayurveda system in India died before its revival by Govt of India. One dosent have to be a student of history to understand the reasons for the Death of medicine. They are common all over the world --YeditorYeditor 14:51, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Traditional name is Vedika Dharma and Sanatana Dharma, today it's popular modern name is Hindu Dharma. What's the problem here? -Holy Ganga 17:28, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Yeditor, instead of assigning motives to other editors, please show references for your statements. Also, you have not commented on my references or comments. I am placing a POV label on the page until we can civilly reach an agreement, backed up with references.

The death of Ayurveda section is highly speculative, unencyclopedic and at most a single point of view (for instance see [3] for british records of education in 18th century India). Literacy rates were low even in Europe before industrial revolution & start of public education changed that in the mid-19th century. For example, in England in 1841, 33% of men and 44% of women signed marriage certificates with their mark as they were unable to write, leave alone learn medicine. The section rambles on with possible reasons most of which are unreferenced and POV. I think the whole section can be replaced with one sentence about how Ayurvedic practice declined in the past few centuries until its revival by the Indian govt. --Pranathi 18:33, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Since there is no response (and no references), I am reverting Yeditors changes.--Pranathi 03:14, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Good move. I applaud my "fellow Hindu vandals".Bakaman _Bakatalk 19:03, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Expanding the article

How does one expand the article, with new sections, pages etc?

The article have many lacunie and many important contents have been left and not included honestly. Misunderstanding and question of the scientificity of the AYURVED is arosed by the sincere persons are obvious. "AYURVED is a complete science" and this fact should be accepted. I am practicing Ayurved since 40 years with great success. My patients are Hindus, Muslims, Christians, Sikkha and others, taking regular treatment without any hesitation. The fact is that Ayurved have its own "AETIOLOGICAL" consideration, which is actually, known as TRIDOSHA,which are three in numbers. The equivalent and exact term of the TRIDOSHA is difficult to translate in English language. Tridosha are mainly three and in total combination makes seven, which is for the DIAGNOSIS and treatment purposes, according to the philosophy of Ayurved.Again Each Dosha have five kinds, which is total makes Fifteen. These Fifteen kinds makes "PHYSIOLOGICAL BASIS OF DISEASES" of Human Body. Again SAPTA DHATU is considered. Sapta Dhatu are seven in numbers. The Concept of Sapta Dhatu is considered equivalentto "PATHOLOGICAL BASIS OF DISEASES".Again Three MALAS are taken into consideration, which is considered eqvivalent to "KETABOLIC PRODUCTS". Consideration of Agni [Digestive fire], Prakrati, Oaj, Sampoorna Oaj [Vital Force or Vital Power] etc taken for help in diagnosis and treatment of the disease.Few years back, a High-technology come in existence to Quantify the Status of TRIDOSHA,TRIDOSHA-BHED,SAPTA DHATU, OAJ, AGNI etc, known "ELECTRO-TRIDOSHA-GRAM/GRAPH", Ayurvedic whole body scan and which is prooved the ultimate Ayurvedic Diagnosis solutions in evidence based medicine form with diagnosis of the disease conditions.This technology have prooved the scientificity of Ayurved. It provides Diagnosis of the existence of TRIDOSHA, TRIDOSHA-BHED, SAPTA DHATU, MAL, AGNI, OAJ report in Data form, Graphically presentation, Original Trace records taken by ETG machine, Modern western diagnosis and summery of the case etc.

5 fundimental spins

Does anyone have any support for this claim?Geni 17:25, 8 Jul 2004 (UTC)

"More than 6000 years old" - fact or fiction?

What do secular historians say to the claim that Ayurveda is 6000 years old? Fact or fiction? -- 84.57.16.157 12:51, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I believe, Ayurveda originated with the Vedas but was consolidated and separated later. So I guess the age came from the age of the vedas.--Pranathi 00:41, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

humours?????

I am not an expert of ayurveda... that is why I want to place a comment. What is the meaning of the word "humours" in the sentence: "but the formal doctrines of the three humours and other key ayurvedic ideas are first mentioned in the Buddhist Canonical literature."

Probably someone made a change.

Wereldburger758

 (from dictionary.com)
 Main Entry: hu·mor
 Variant: or chiefly British hu·mour /'hyü-m&r, 'yü-/
 Function: noun
 1 a : a normal functioning bodily semifluid or fluid (as the blood or lymph)
   b : a secretion (as a hormone) that is an excitant of activity
 2 in ancient and medieval physiology : a fluid or juice of an animal or plant;
   specifically : one of the four fluids that were believed to enter into the
   constitution of the body and to determine by their relative proportions a
   person's health and temperament —see BLACK BILE, BLOOD 3, PHLEGM 1, YELLOW BILE

Humours is a British spelling...

Ideology defferences in Humor and Tridosha

One should keep in mind that Ayurvedic tridosha is very differ to the concept of humor. Unfortunatly tridosha is understood and translated as humor. Let us see the exact meaning of the humor in Stedman's electronic medical dictionary:

""humor; 1- any clear fluid or semifluid hyaline anatomic substances 2- one of the elemental body fluids that were the basis of the physiologic and pathologic teachings of the Hippocratic school, blood, yellow bile, black bile and phlegm

Humoral Doctrine: the ancient Greek theory of the four body humors [blood, yellow and black bile and phlegm] that determined health and diseases. The humors were associated with the four elements [air , fire, earth and water] which in tern paired with one of the qualities [hot, cold,dry and moist]. A proper and evenly balanced mixture of the humors charecterized health of body and mind, and an imperfect balance resulted in disease,Temperament of body and mind also was supported to be determined e.g. sanguine [blood], choleric [yellow bile] melancholic [black bile] or phlagmatic [phlegm]"".

From above dictionary statement clears about the misconception of humor and tridosha.Humor is concept of the Europeans, while Tridosha is the concept of the Indians.Hippocrates first introduced the philosophy of humor in Europe. Now the concept is only alive in Unani system of medicine, which consider humor in the same way as Hippocrates percieved.

The concept of Tridosha is concieved by the sages hundred thousands of years ago, when the knowledge was transferred by brain to brain and no written language was in existence.The philosophy of tridosha and the philosophy of Humor is very diffrent entirely and there is no co-relation because the basic approach is differ from the start.

User:Dbbajpai1945@sify.com 11:45 IST 18 June 2006

Abhyangam

Can someone please write an article about Abhyangam (its an ayurvedic massage) - it would be useful to the ayurveda category (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Ayurveda).

Abhyang / Maalish / Massage

A disciplinary pressurised movemental rubbing of the body parts by hand is known abhyang. Abhyang is done by the plain hand with or without oil / fat / alcohol / medicated oil or by any other means. Almost the oil is used due to its easeness in movement by hand smoothly.

By use of massage, the blood circulation is increases. Thus the process of oxidation is increases in the tissue and cells of the body or body parts. The main effects of the massage especially is in the muscles, joints, circulatory nerves and arteries and autonomic nervous system. Massage reflects the strongness of muscles, increases skin texture, happyness in mood, increases Vata-nadi strength. Abhyanga is a sort of physical exercise, by which the benefit of exercise is obtained.

Use of Abhyang in diseases

There is several disease conditions where abhyang is very beneficial. Some of the disease conditions can be well managed for total cure by use of abhyanga.

In loss of blood / aneamia, whole body massage or part of the body or visceral massage is very beneficial. By massaging in these disease condition, Heamoglobin increases. Those who are suffering from muscular pain, aching, coldness of the extremeties, loss of flesh , emaciation abhyanga is beneficial to lessen the problems.

Those who are suffering from digestive disorders or digestive problems, like Mucous colitis, looseness of diaphragm, looseness of abdominal muscles, after abdominal surgery, after pregnancy, can be benefited by massage.

It is observed that in Emphysema, asthma, chronic bronchitis like disease conditions massage is helpful if it is done by the specially trained massage practitioner.

In Vatik Vikar massage is very beneficial. In Paralysis, infantile paralysis,neuritis, arthritis, fibrositis, any painful condition can be managed to get towards cure by massage therapy. But the massage should be done by the expert and tactful massage practitioner.

Prohibition of Abhyanga

Abhyanga is prohibited in some disease conditions. So massage should be avoided for the treatment or management purposes. In acute fever, nausea, vomiting, after enema, acute inflammatory conditons, acute emaciative disorders, severe skin disorders, phlebitis, lymphangitis, bonemarrow inflammation, gastri and dueodenal ulcers, nephritis, swelling of kidney, acute intestinal problems, these conditions should be not treated by the massage therapy.

Methods of Abhyanga

In olden time only oil is used prominently for massage. The practical approach and tactics of the massage therapy is transfered by family tradition passing one to others. However the description and details are not much available in Ayurvedic literature, except the direction of the uses of Ayurveda Oil. Abhyang is a subject based on the practical practice, in which the movement of the hand, posture of the patient, specific and individual technique of massage by the pressure of hand, which is individualised and changed from person to person experiences.Olden time the family tradition makes them experts for the massage therapy and therefore it seems that there is no need to tell the technique of massage, much depending upon the practice and experience.

Now today the condition is changed. Every subjects are seems to be evaluated on the logic and scientific backgrounds. Today the massage is directed by a difinite framed rules and technique, but it is very difficult to write the experiences in words. However a few techniques is as below:

• Effleurage: Palm surface of the hand is used. By this frequent and fast movement of the hands in up and down / rounded movements are used. In one minute, 15 to 20 shakes should be given.

• Petrissage: Griping up the muscles by the fingers, pressure them, tighten them and expand the muscles.

• Friction: By palm surface is done. It is an easy way for massage which is used by the ordinary persons. But the massage therapist used this technoque in most effective way. Fingers, thumb is uses.

• Percussion: Clapping, Tapping, Cupping, Hactking technique are used

• Vibrations: vibration is produced from the use of shoulder of the therapist. Now electric vibrators can be used.

The massage should be started slowly and gradually, then speed of the massage gradually increses and similarly when finishes finally, gradually reduces. Sudden reduction may cause harm to patient. The body should be in the relax position and there should be no mental and physical tension.

Ayurvedic Oils

Ayurveda provides so many oils for the curing ailments of the body by use of massage. These oils are made from the best quality of the Black Til Oil, with the selected herbs according to the classical formula, written by the master mind of Ayurveda.

The followings are the famous oil, which are using in the treatment of the various ailments

• Maha Narayana Tail: uses in all kinds of muscular problems, paralysis, joints pain, spondylitis and all nature of pain and painful conditions

• Chandan Bala Lakshadi Tail : for Emaciation, weakness of the body etc.

• Maha Vishagarbha Tail: useful in severe painful conditions, muscular, nervous, joints etc.

Over 500 varieties of Ayurveda Oil descriptions are available in the classical books of Ayurveda, which cover a very wide varieties of diseases to cure.

User:Dbbajpai1945@sify.com 11:20 PM IST 26 August 2006

Turkish

A whole block of text in what looks like Turkish has turned up in the middle of the article. Could someone who can read Turkish translate it if it's useful? 71.192.102.136 07:42, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

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Is there no shelf life for Ayurvedic medicines? In India at least, I see manufacturing date, without any expiry date.

I remember a Link TV program in which the doctor says that some ayurvedic medicines can still be used a thousand years after manufacture. It may/may not be true for all Ayur medicines though.. don't know. --Pranathi 00:40, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

You have false picture of the Ayurvedic medicine's shelf life in your mind. Many literature writes about the shelf life of Ayurvedic Medicines, for example: decoction of the Ayurvedic herbs should be used when in lukwarm stage, Powder should be used within three to six months,Bhasma should be used within two years, Rasaushadhi should be used within one to two years and so on. User:Dbbajpai1945@sify.com 22:10, 10 June 2006

Abhyanga

Abyangha means to massage.

It’s an ancient Indian art used for healing, relaxation and for treatment of various diseases Abyangha is a full body massage, which is usually done by medicated sesame oil.

In Ayurveda the word for oil is taila. Taila is originated from the formal word tila. Tila means sesam. This base of hebal (or medicated oils) which are used in Abhyanga is sesam oil.

Why Ayurvedic massage is so unique? It’s based on the five elements (pancha mahabuthas) Biological humors (tridosha) Concept of agni and pitta Marma therapy Status of toxins or ama in the body Substances used for Ayurvedic massage: Plain oil (preferbally sesamoil) Medicated oil Some facts about Abhyanga: Always use unrefined oils, this because refined oils have been processed so heavily that they loose their potency. (refined oil -> an oil that is virtually colorless, odorless, and tasteless – that can last for years in a bottle with no danger of spoilage. On the other hand, it has virtually no connection with the beneficial oil that was originally contained in the seed or coconut. It is now a “plastic fat” that offers no benefits to the human body and the potential for much harm.) Also in vitro, sesame seed oil has inhibited replication of human colon cancer cells (Anti cancer research 11: 209-216, 1992. In vitro, sesame seed oil has inhibited the growth of malignant melanoma (a skin cancer): (prostaglandin leukatrines and essential fatty acids 46: 145-150, 1992) Research shows that sesame seed oil is a potent antioxidant. In the tissues beneath the skin, this oil will neutralize oxygen radicals. It penetrates into the skin quickly and enters the blood stream through the capillaries. Molecules of sesame seed oil maintain good cholesterol (HDL) and lower bad cholesterol (LDL). On the skin, oil soluble toxins are attracted to sesame seed oil molecules which can then be washed away with hot water and a mild soap. Internally, the oil molecules attract oil soluble toxins and carry them into the blood stream and then out of the body as waste. Sesame seed oil absorbs quickly and penetrates through the tissues to the very marrow of the bone. It enters into the blood stream through the capillaries and circulates. The liver does not sweep sesame seed oil molecules from the blood, accepting those molecules as friendly. Sesame seed oil helps joints keep their flexibility. It keeps the skin supple and soft. It heals and protects areas of mild scrapes, cuts and abrasions. It helps tighten facial skin, particularly around the nose, controlling the usual enlargement of pores as skin ages chronologically.

Panchakarma

Where should you put the link for this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panchakarma

Classical Panchakarma

The classical Panchakarma is described by some writers. It is not easy as it is understood. Before the start of the Panchakarma, Snehpaan is performed.Snehapaan means the intake of fatty substances. The fat is of four kinds [a] Ghee [b] Oil [c] Animal Fat [d] Bone Marrow fat. It is advised that Snehapaan should be done early in the morning before rising of Sun. This process is repeated upto seven days maximum. The selection of the Sneh is dependent upon the patient likings. But it is indicated according to disease and Tridosha conditions.Sneh is also used for massage, pouring in ears, in eyes, as Nasya, for Gargles.

Those who are not able or interested in this type of Snehapaan, they can take the Sneh [fat] mixing in the food articles. After snehpaan, swedan is done. These are known as Poorvakarma. Snehan is termed Oleation in english and swedan is Sudation.

PANCHAKARAMA

Five karmas are in total is done for Panchakarma.

• Vaman

• Virechan

• Anuvasan

• Niruhana

• Navan

[1] Vaman

It is indicative that the expert Ayurvedic Physician should perform the Vaman in Winter season.Those who are having strong body built, suffering from Kaphha dosha, nausea, patience personal,they should be selected for the Vaman and Virechana. Vaman should be performed in the Vish Vikar, dugdha vikar,mandagni, shleepad, arbud, hradaya roga, kustha, visarpa, prameha, ajeerna, bhram, vidari rog, apachi roga, kaas, shwas, braddhi, apasmaar, jwar, unmaad, raktatisar, nasapaak, taalupaak, osthapaak,karnashrav, adhijvihak roga, galshundi roga, atisaar, pittaroga,kaphha roga, medoroga, aruchi etc. After Vaman, the proper treatment of the diseases should be given.

The followings are not considered for the vaman procedure and these should be avoided for Vaman. Timir Netra roga, Gulma, udar roga,very old person, pregnent woman, very obese, Tuberculer, alcohol addicted, childrens, have not properly fed personals, weak, those who have lossed their blood by bleeding, heptic patiebts, wormicular poatients, etc.

Some medicines are indicative for the use of Vaman according to the Doshas. Some precautions are essential to follow after the Vaman karma.

[2] Virechana

When Snehan, swedan and Vaman karma have done, after that Virechan karma is performed.

Some of the patient are not selected for the Virechn karma. They are childrens, old man, fatty persons, tuberculars, psychofears,very tired, thirsty, obese,pregnent, acute fever, alcoholics etc.

For Virechna karma, sevral medications are used. The medicines are categorised according to the weather conditions.The doses are fixed according to the strength of the patient. Some food intake is specially indicated.

Adverse effects may happen, if the instructions will not followed accordingly.

[3]Anuwasana

This is also known Enema therapy. In Anuwasana, oil enema is given. Those who are Old maniacals, thirsty,edematous, epileptic, hyteric subjects, comatic patient,fearful, loss of taste, asthamatics, chronic bronchial affections, tubercular, emaciated subjects etc. should not be selected for the Anuwasana treatment.

Those who are suffering from Vata doshas, have teekshagni digestive fire and rough skin subjects, they should be selected for the treatment.

In anuwasana basti, castor oil is used for enema and the quantity of the oil is varied according to the doshas, age and nature of problems, which is decided by the Ayurvedicians.

A Basti yantra is used by which the Oil or medicated oil is introduced through anorectal, urethral or vaginal route.

[4] Niruhana

Niruhana is also known as Asthapana Basti. In Niruhana/Asthapana basti, the decoction of the herbs are used as enema material and herbs are selected according to the nature of the patient and his complaints.

Niruhana Basti is restricted to those who are not constipated, doshas which can be easily removed by purging, pulmonary tubercular subjects, emaciated, weak,flatulent, edematous, diarrheal subjects, cholera affected, leprotics, dropsy, anasarca subjects, dibetics,pregnent women etc. These subjects should be avoided for Niruhana treatment.

[5] Nasya

The medicines are used through nasal route. The same precautions are taken in selection of patients for treatment and what should be avoided, as mentioned earlier.

This is the Ayurvedic Panchakarma methods, which are narrated in the classical book Bhav Prakash.

KERALA STYLE PANCHAKARMA

Kerala style panchakarma is somehow differ from classical panchakarma of the Ayurveda. This is a speciality of the panchakarma of South India. In Kerala Panchakarma the followings are done:

• Pindasweda

• Pichchil

• Shirobasti

• Shirodhara

• Shirolepana

Precautions:

Panchakarma is a very sophisticated mode of treatment. It requires a good and practical experienced hand. Suppose if a patient of duedenal ulcer is treated by Vaman therapy, what will happen of his ulcer ? Is it not possible that by purging his ulcer may open again ? If anybody is suffering from sigmoid colon tumour or cancer or intestinal ulcer , what will happen when virechan and basti will be given to him ?

Therefore the Ayurvedicians warns several times, to whom the physician should select for the treatment and to whom the physician should rejects for treatment.

Those who have gone for bypass heart surgery, implanted pacemaker, kidney transplant, joint replacements etc they should not take the any Panchakarma treatment without the consent of the atleast two expert Panchakarma practitioners. However these patients can take the Ayurvedic treatment and medicines without any harm with or without modern western medicines [ Allopathy drugs].

user:Dbbajpai1945@sify.com 11:02 PM IST 04 September 2006

Is ayurveda really supposed to placed as part of hinduism?

Is ayurveda really supposed to placed as part of hinduism? I mean its portrayed as part of hinduism. Its more a form of medicine. Sure its from the vedas, but I think you should change the overall topic and the picture. Change the picture to some ayurvedic treatment thing. Its to know that that people will come to this site. Not mainly to know all the crap written here.

Ofcourse, AyurVEDA is a part od VEDIC religion--Holy Ganga 15:36, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Of Course not, ayurveda is the science/the knowledge of life and much broader than a religion like Hinduism. There is no dogmatism in it like any religion has dogma.

It is misconcieved that Ayurved is a part of Hinduism. Being a Hindu, I read HOLY BIBLE, HOLY QURAN, NITNEM SAHAB and GEETA. These are the holy religious books, which I keep in my Clinic with great honour and respect. I read these books, when I have time and try to understand the contents. A Hindu respects all religion because it is said in Hindu Religion that there is Crores of incarnation by God himself. May be Holy Sprits , which have been mentioned in these Holy books. That is the reason, every Hindu respects all incarnation given by the God himself to the Humans.

VEDAS are four in numbers RIGVEDA, SAAMVEDA,ATHARVAVEDA and YAJURVEDA. All Vedas have mentioned the natural qualities of the earth and around the earth i.e. AIR,WATER,FIRE,EATHER,EARTH,TREES,VEGETABLES,CREATERS, ANIMALS, MOON,SUN and other celestials. Every religion considers these mentioned matters. Can you say, these are the contents of HINDUS ? So is about the Ayurved. A science or therapy or technology is for the use of the every individual of this globe without consideration of Caste, creed , Religion , Part or Nation ? In fact, the AYURVED is developed by the Hindus for the sake of helping sick humanity of this world, with the moto "VASUDHAIVA KUTUMBAKAM" philosophy, which means " those who are living on this earth, they are our Families." How this could be blamed that AYURVED is a part of Hinduism ?

Sign your posts on talk pages for meaningful discussions. - Holy Ganga ^talk 09:15, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Balance?

This article seems to me to be unbalanced as it lacks any criticism of ayurvedic medicine.

Indeed, so why not delete all the content and write a balanced article. -good idea. It's an alternative medicine and the article is totally biased.

I agree - this whole article is almost an unsubstantiated ramble.

Commercial links

I would requestt the editors to please do not add commercial and promotional links. Adding such links is a really bad idea, and not in conformity with the policies and processes of wikipedia. Please co-operate in building the Project. Repeat violations of policies of wikipedia may require suitable sanctions. Thank you. --Bhadani 13:23, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Rather long

While I appreciate the efforts to update the page, it has become more than double than the eecommended page size. The page should be made compact and additional pages relating to the topic may be created. Thanks. --Bhadani 13:44, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Transfer the matter to new pages

Some matters should be transfered to new pages i.e. description Of Vata Dosha etc Vata Bhed, Sapta Dhatu, Herbs and Mineral and others. Matters can be compacted but the original sense should be preserved, otherwise it will creat controversy. Better to creat new pages. Thanks. User:Dbbajpai1945@sify.com10:35 AM IST 28 June 2006

Introductory Part

Much of what is said in the Intro and the next few sections seems to be lacking any sort of citation therefore, I'm unsure of how to begin cleaning it up as the actual meaning seems a bit opaque in places. I'm a little uncomfortable with keeping some of the assertions, particularly in the Development of Ayurveda in Ancient India section. --Kaushik twin 17:24, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

dear me, most of it doesn't even parse. what a mess, be bold please, sentences both unsourced and opaque are better out than in. dab (ᛏ) 18:18, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Pronunciation

How do you pronounce this word? There should be one of those dictionary-style pronunciation things after the first word...

POV

This page is one of the worst cases of POV I have seen on Wikipedia. Shock full of fantastic claims with no useful references. Yet another partisan job done only too well. Also, why Deepak Chopra is not mentionend even once I can't even begin to understand. Sigh. Emanuel1972 13:09, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Quite. It reads like a pro-ayurveda pamphlet.--71.112.234.168 05:27, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

I have made a few edits to improve the NPOV of this article, but it needs more work. I've tried to be as impartial as possible.--Myk 16:31, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

True information and true contents : Useless blames

One should use his brainial capacity to understand the Ayurveda page. The information and contents are as true as it can be and there is no any fantasy in the provided matters.It is as correct as it should be. Who is Deepak Chopra, I do not know and why the gentleman is particularly want to include his name in the Ayurveda page? In India, here is a very large number of the master mind's Ayurvedic practitioners and scientist. If the Ayurveda page will be used for the inclusion of these so called personalities numbers, what will be of the policy of Wikipedia. I am totally against for inclusion of any personal name in the page. Only Historical facts and Ayurveda related material should be included.

User:Dbbajpai1945@sify.com 08:30 PM IST, 09 July 2006

evidence for Ayurveda's claims?

What about NNT's of Ayurveda's practices? What about scientific studies of its claims of understanding what is really happening?

Anything? Has anyone asked this? I cannot understand that this article has grown so large without anyone adding a paragraph saying that Ayurveda practicioner's claim in regards to understanding and effectivity are moslty ignored in the scientific community and mostly lacking in evidence (by scientific standards).

I insist with the question, i have added {{disputed}} until there are anwers.

Some Edits

• As stated by many other editors, there is a serious problem with lack of references. Most of the content is of a nature that should be referenced, and almost none of the page is. Some statements especially need to be referenced or deleted.
• I have deleted or revised many statments that were confusing or redundent. Many of these statements were also not NPOV. "Ayurvedic doctoros practice Ayurvedice medicine" need not be said, nor does "Ayurvedic remedies are real ultra-evidence based medicine"
• On some of the sections, I have simply added tags, as the statements are confusing enough that I cannot fathom what the author was trying to say, and do not know where to begin editting them. It seems indicitive of a language barrier issue, the author may need to inlist help. This may also be coming from an excessive use of jargon, or non-english words. Many terms used are not explained.

--captainmanacles

{{POV}}

The page carries above tag. I would request the editors concerned to please list the points so that they may be take care of. In case, it is not done, the presumption may be that the edits after this tag have taken care of the POVs, if any. --Bhadani 16:16, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

How common is its usage?

How widespread is ayurvedic medicine's use in India. Is it used like and as much as Traditional chinese medicine is used in China?

Quantum bird 00:00, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes, Ayurveda is pretty popular in India. If I am correct, more people (especially in remote places) use Ayurveda than the allopathic medicine. -- thunderboltz^{a.k.a.Deepu Joseph |TALK}11:44, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Every Indian is taking Ayurveda treatment

I would like to clear to all concerned that every Indian is taking the benefit of the Ayurveda as much as possible in his daily life and routine from centuties and even today and the process will be continue in future in innumerable comming centuries. As it is said earlier that Ayurveda is related with the life style to gain the full age of 100 years. Ayurveda teaches, how a person can achieve the target of 100 years life. Which science teaches to achieve this target ?

User:Dbbajpai1945@sify.com 09:00 PM IST 22 July 2006

Sorry, but I quite simply do not believe you. If for no other reason than you said "every Indian". Such absolute statements about the actions of humans beings are almost always wrong. Given that you are clearly willing to make completely preposterous statements in support of Ayurveda, I therefore doubt that you can be trusted to provide a neutral point of view in this matter. --Myk 16:35, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Please see my comments above. -- thunderboltz^{a.k.a.Deepu Joseph |TALK}04:33, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Which is the sort of statement I am willing to accept at face value. Saying that "every Indian" uses Ayurveda all the time is an obvious falsehood, though.--Myk 22:56, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

• Everyday use of Ayurveda and the herbs : Ayurveda is divided in two parts. First it teaches you the way of being healthy throghout your life time, every year's season, change of weather, what you have to do daily that is Dinacharya, provides you the rule to keep youself fit and healthy, tells you what you have to eat according to the seasons and your lifestyle to maintain the health, so that the man should prevet himself from diseases. Ayurveda teaches what you have to eat for proper nourishments to human body. For that in Ayurvedic materia medica there is lot of information based on the time based experiences of the food articles and crude food material qualities and charecteristic of the cooked and non-cooked food.

• The second part of the ayurveda teaches , when you becomes sick, you should take the appropriate medicine for cure. Every Indian is daily taking Ayurvedic medicines with his food. What is Turmeric, what is jeera, what is asafoetida, what is dalchini, what is lavang, what is tejapatta, what is dhaniya, what is capsicum,what is garlic, what is pyaj, what is kala namak, what is sandhav namak, what is ginger, what is tulasi, what is kalimircha, what is peepal, what is methi, what is ajawayan, what is lemon juice ? Are they not Ayurvedic medicaments ?

Actually one should first go through seriously to study the Ayurvedic classical literature and try to understand them.Merely seeing superficial study will always creat controversy. My advice is first to those who are willing to know about the Ayurveda, they should study seriously classical literature of Ayurveda, because this is complete medical science, which is traditionally, psychologicallly, knowingly or unknowingly is adopted by the every Indian. Ayurveda developed in India, so it have the Indian value. Those who are not Indian, they can not understand the soul of Ayurveda.

User:Dbbajpai1945@sify.com 11:32 IST, 24 July 2006

So you are saying that people are using Ayurvedic "medications" without even being aware of it? That is a ridiculous claim and robs Ayruvedic medications of any useful properties. Saying that "<This new medicine> claims people should eat lots of rice to stay healthy." Does not mean that most people in Asia are using <this new medicine>.

Is every Indian eating garlic, capsicum, turmeric, etc in the exact proportions and preparations sepcified by an Ayurvedaic practitioner? No, they're just making food.--Myk 22:57, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Indian traditional medicine

I just noticed that Indian traditional medicine redirects to Ayurveda. If I am correct, Ayurveda is not the sole traditional medicine from India. What about Siddha, Yoga, Unani etc? I'm not quite knowledgeable in this domain, and would like to get inputs on whether these too would come under the purview of "Indian traditional medicine". Thanks. -- thunderboltz^{a.k.a.Deepu Joseph |TALK}04:38, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

• Siddha, Yoga and Unani system of medicine have separate identity as medical sciences. They have no direct relation to Ayurveda because their fundamental principals are very differ to eachother. So these medical sciences should not consider to a part of Ayurveda.--User:Dbbajpai1945@sify.com 11:45 PM IST 24 July 2006

So do they come under "Indian traditional medicine" ? Or is Ayurveda the only Indian traditional medicine? -- thunderboltz^{a.k.a.Deepu Joseph |TALK}01:54, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

• Ayurveda is the only Indian traditional medical system. While Yoga [correct word is Yog] is a part of Yog Darshan or Yog Philosophy. Yog philosophy is developed in India. It have eight folds in philosophy, which are known 1-Yam 2- Niyam 3- Asan 4- Pranayam 5-Pratyahar 6- Dhyam 7- Dharana 8-Samadhi. Unfortunately the philosophy of Yog is known worldwide by Yoga as a means of exercises and postures of body and breathing exercises. This is wrong and absolute wrong concept about yog.Actual yog is something else. Unani system of medicine is developed by the Hippocrates and came to India by Mughals. Though Unanani medical practice is almost ended in the land of Hippocrates but it developed in India during Mughals period. Its philosophy and theory is more away from the concept of Ayurveda.

User:Dbbajpai1945@sify.com 10:15 PM IST 25 July 2006

Hang on, make up your mind. Are they systems of medicine or not?--Myk 23:00, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

- likewise, I don't have a broad knowledge of Indian Traditional Medicine. The Indian Government, though, seems to see things like Siddha (http://indianmedicine.nic.in/html/siddha/siddha.htm#intro) and yoga (http://indianmedicine.nic.in/html/yoga/yoga.htm#con) as traditional Indian medicine. I think this means that there is at least enough dispute as to what 'traditional indian medicine' is that this should not just forward to Ayurveda. jon_m

Okay, I've changed Indian traditional medicine so it is no longer a simple redirect to Ayurveda. It could use some work, though.

Cleaning up

I've done a clean up of the article. (Article is now over 30 kbs lighter diff) A number of sections were moved (to other pages) as well as merged during the clean up. I request someone experienced with the topic to check if I've made any mistakes during the process. The article now needs copyediting, referencing and addressal of the POV issues. The "teachings of Ayurveda" as well as the "Saftey issues" section needs to be expanded with some more data. -- thunderboltz^{a.k.a.Deepu Joseph |TALK}06:42, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Also, pictures would make a good addition to the article. I've added pictures to a few of the sections. -- thunderboltz^{a.k.a.Deepu Joseph |TALK}06:46, 24 July 2006 (UTC)~

merge from Gurukul system of Ayurveda

i suggested that Gurukul system of Ayurveda be merged into this article as perhaps a new section, as it doesnt seem to merit its own article. Benji64 18:51, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

New Pages and NPOV

Most of the page now has been purged of it's NPOV and unclear statements, but this seems to have mostly been done by moving the worst offenders into other pages. Now we have 3 additional unclear, unreferenced, NPOV pages. List_of_herbs_and_minerals_in_Ayurveda, seems to be okay.

• Gurukul_system_of_Ayurveda
• Teachings_of_Ayurveda
• Research_and_innovations_in_Ayurveda

All need work still, or could be better served by shortening and moving back to the main page.

History section - alternative transfers

The part of the history section detailing different paths of students seems pretty irrelevant to me

Hinduism attributes the genesis of Ayurveda to several theories in which the knowledge is believed to have been passed on from person to person . According to Charaka Samhita, the Hindu God Brahma transferred the Ayurvedic teachings and knowledge to Jatukarna, Bhel, Parashar, Hareeta and Ksharpani, via the following chronological order: Brahma → Daksha Prajapati → Ashwani kumar → Indra → Bhardwaj → Atreya Punarvasu → Agnivesh → Bhel, Parashar, Hareeta and Ksharpani. However, according to Sushruta Samhita Bramha transferred the knowledge via the following chronological order: Brahma → Daksha Prajapati → Ashwani Kumar → Indra → Dhanvantari → Aupdhenav, Vaitaran, Aurabhra , Pushklavata, Karveerya, Gopur Rakshit and Sushruta. In another view, accroding to Kashyap Samhita, Brahma transferred the knowledge to via Ashwini Kumara to Indra, thereby to Vashishta via Kashyapa and Atri, Bhrigu etc; lastly among them Atri transferred the knowledge to his son and his pupils subsequently.

Is there any point to these histories? Some indication of how Ayurveda's historic development is affected by the different paths?

If there is no good reason for including them, I think they should be deleted, since they seem to be largely repeated sequences of irrelevant names. --Myk 16:59, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

INCLUDE THEM

The question raised by the editors of the Ayurveda section about the genesis of the Ayurveda, is thought to be wrong. The fact is that the author or compilers of the Ayurveda classics, say Charak Samhita, Sushruta samhita , Ashtanga Sangraha are written in the different and remote parts of the country and hundred thousand years before, at that time no means of communication was possible due to demographic conditions. So the writers have written the genesis of the Ayurveda according to their knowledge, which they have got from the Guru or teacher in Gurukul, as was the tradition of that time. The soul of the genesis is to understand the development of the Ayurveda teachings and transfer of the knowledge from one generation to another generation and further. The writers of these classics had mentioned the genesis according to the data, whatever they have, at that period.

User:Dbbajpai1945@sify.com 08:55 PM IST 15 August 2006

Ok, I understand that you feel there is some value to this data. As it is, it doesn't seem to actually impart any useful information to someone not highly knowledgeable in the field of Ayurveda. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, and the information in it is supposed to be accessible by everyone. I will try to rewrite what you have said in a way that makes sense, and remove the long, mostly meaningless sequences.--Myk 22:57, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

The Question of whether the names of those who may have transmitted information over many years have value is not, in my opinion, up to the compilers of the information. That the information is valuable to those who are/were involved in the actual practice is the important thing. If wikipedia is to be unbiased then the cultural opinion that ancestors are irrelevant cannot be part of the spirit of wikipedia. All or any information pretaining to the development of a subject may have usefulness at some future date to someone who has more respect for their ancestors. If they were irrelevant then what would be the point of geneology or history for that matter? Just because you do not recognise the format of the information does not mean it is invalid..

Mercuric-sulphur combination based medicines

"Ayurveda was practiced during the time of the time of the Buddha (around 520 BC) , and in this period the Ayurvedic practitioners were commonly using Mercuric-sulphur combination based medicines.[3]"

This citation isn't valid. Let's have a citation from the extant literature, not commentaries. There is NO mention of bhasmas in Charaka, Sushruta, Vagbhata etc., and its it is not until Nagarjuna, (NOT the mahayanist buddhist scholar Acharya Nagarjuna), born in the 10th century CE/AD, that toxic metals like mercury are given any prominence in Ayurveda. As a result, the image of Acharya Nagarjuna is WRONG!! and needs to be removed.

Even the much vaunted antiquity of bhasmas in the Siddha tradition appears to be relatively recent, according to "A History of the Tamil Siddha Cult" (1990) by R. Venkatraman. In this text Venkatraman suggests with much certainty that alchemy was incorporated into during the 12th by the nathasiddhas of present day Madhya Pradesh.

All of this supports the contention that (1) bhasma use in India is not as venerable as is claimed, and (2) that its use was originally not as widespread as claimed.

I will give the author a couple weeks to clear this up and then I will do it myself and delete that section.

MENTION OF BHASMA AND MERCURY SULPHUR COMBINATION IN CHARAK SAMHITA

Take the reference of Charak Samhita's Chikitsatsthanam, Saptamoadhyay verse -70 says that " Mercury Bhasma prepared in combination with Sulphur or Swarnmakshik should be taken by the person suffering from Leprosy. The Mercury [Parad] Bhasma cures all disease conditions."

In the same section, verse 69 says for use of Sulphur and Verse 71 says use of Vajra [Heera, Diamond] Bhasma. Verse 167 says for the use of Mainsil and Kashish.

In Khodashoadhyay verse-69 instruct for use of Loha [Lauh] Bhasma for Hepatic/ Liver ailments. Verse 69 and 70 says formula of Navayas Lauh, which is a combination of Lauh Bhasma and herbs.Verse 72 to 76 mentions Mandoor Vatak, which is another combination of Lauh Bhasma with herbs. In Saptadashoadhyay verse 124 mentions the formula of Muktadyam Churnam which is including Moti Bhasam, Prawal Bhasam, Vaidurya Bhasam, Shankha Bhasam, Sphatika Bhasam, Anjan Bhasam,Kach Bhasam,Tamra Bhasam, Lauha Bhasam, Rajat Bhasam, Padmarag Bhasam with herbs.

IN SUSRUT SAMHITA

In Chikitsasthanam, Navamoadhyaya verse-6 mentions Swarnmakshik with other herbs. In Dashamoadhyaya,verse 11 and 12 tells the way of preparing Lauh Bhasam.Ekadashoadhyaya verse 10 recommends Lauh Rasayana, which is prepared by mixing Lauh Bhasam in herbs. In Dwadashoadhyay verse 11 formula of Navayas Lauh is given.In trayodasho adhyaya verse 17 and 18 tells about Swarnmakshi and Raupya makshik bhasama. In ashtavinshatitamoadhyaya verse 10 to 12 tells to take Suvarn Bhasamwih other herbs.

In Susrut samhita, Tutiya, Hartal, Mainsil, Kashish and other metals uses are mentioned.

'IN VAGBHATTA' Vagbhatta Astang Sangrah have many formulea in which Bhasma have used. In Raktapitta chikitsa tratiyodhyaya verse 38 mentions Shankha Bhasam, Shambook Bhasam,Surma bhasam. Verse 76 tells for Shankha Bhasam with other herbs. In chapter Shwashidhma chikitsa, khastoadhyaya verse 42 and 43 instruct to use Mukta bhasam, praval bhasam, vaidurya bhasam, shamnkha bhasam, surma bhasam, marakat bhasam, sphatik bhasam, tamra bhasam, loha bhasam, rajat bhasam with other herbs.

In prameharoga chikitsa, chaturdasho adhyaya verse 67 mentions Loha Bhasam and Tamra Bhasam. In chapter Panduroga chikitsa, ashtadasho adhyaya verse 13 tells Swarn makshik bhasam, rajat mal bhasam, mandoor bhasam, verse 48 swarn makshik bhasam. In chapter Kustha rog chikitsa, ekvinshoadhyaya verse 31 mentions rajat,loh, kantloh, abhrak bhasmas.

User:Dbbajpai1945@sify.com 04:45 IST 08 August 2006

REGARDING NAGARJUNA By the name of Nagarjuna, several Nagarjunas names are comes up and are taken into consideration. If careful studies of Sansakrit Language Literature, Pali Language literature, Tibbatian Language literature and translated literature of Chinese Language are done, several Nagarjunas names comes up.Among these names, "Ras siddha Nagarjuna Third" seems fit for innovation of Ayurveda in total of followings eights:

• Ras siddha Nagarjuna
• Bodhisatva Raja Nagarjuna
• Sushruta pratisansakarta Nagarjuna
• Anandkar Nagarjuna
• Bhadanta Nagarjuna
• Rassiddha Nagarjuna second
• Ras siddha Nagarjuna Third
• Nagarjuna - Nagesh

1- Nagarjuna First- The description of the Nagarjuna is seen in Brihat Katha, Kathashloka sangraha, katha sarita sar. He is understood to be amshawatar of Bodhi satwa.Bodhi satwa is known as minister. He is not having knowledge of Ras siddhi.

2- Bodhi satwa raja Nagarjuna - He is a avatar of Bodhisatwa and as king, but he was not having knowledge of Ras siddhi.A discription of the nagarjuna is seen in Raj Tarangini, verse 172-173.

3-Ras siddha Nagarjuna third - He was known as Loha siddhi, in Bhont Language of Harihar Nath Shastri composition, description of Nagarjuna is written. He was well known to Ras siddhi.

4- Sushruta Pratisanskarta Nagarjuna - Dalhan have described about the Nagarjuna in the commentaery of the essays on Susruta.

5- Anandkar Nagarjuna - Dalhan have described the Nagarjuna.

6- Bhadant Nagarjuna - He was the composer of the Ras Vaisheshika and expertise of Ayurveda. The description of Nagarjuna is well given in this book. This is an excellent book on the khadaras, vipaka, veerya, gunadi gyan and the treatment by the khadaras.

7- Nagarjuna Nagesh- he was producer of Ras Kachcha put and was a master of Ras shashtra.

8- Ras siddha Nagarjuna second - The description of nagarjuna is seen in the classical book like Prabhavak Charita,Vividha Teertha Kalpa, Prabandha Chintamani, Prabandha kosha etc. He was known ansavatar of Bodhi satva.

Inbetween these eight Nagarjunas, description of Ras siddha third is available as an authority of Loha and Deha siddhi. Anandkar Nagarjuna was a master of Visha tantra [toxicology] and Nagarjuna Ganesh was also master of Ras tantra. The description of these nagarjunas are available in very brief. Loha siddhikar Nagarjuna description is available sufficiently and possibility of this Nagarjuna can be clearly workouted.Other Nagarjunas are related to Ayurveda, but their descriptions are not clearly available.

User:Dbbajpai1945@sify.com 11:05 PM IST 12 August 2006

DESCRIPTION OF NAGARJUNA THIRD [TRATEEYA]

It is believed that Nagarjuna Third was born in a Bramhin rich family in Kanchi Nagar of Barar [Vidarbha]. The family was very deppressed because they are not having any child.A dream seen by the one of the family member, hundreds of bramhin fed by the family and by the grace of god ,they got the male issue. Some astrologers suggested that the child will not survive after the age of seven years, this came in notice, the gaurdians left the child in a lonely temple. By the grace of God Bodhisatva Avalokiteshwara the child was brought to Nalanda , Bihar, a state of India. The head of the Nalanda Shri Sarah Bhadra adopted the child and make a follower of Budha and arranged for his education etc.

After accepting Budha religion, he became a notable maestro of Ras Tantra, the description is available. After his completion of education, he engaged himself to prepare the new mercury-sulpher based medications.

Nagarjuna got education and training of Ras Tantra by Vashshtha and Mandavya, who were the famous Ras Tantragya. It is believed that he studied the available Ras Classicals of that time, which are Shambhav Tantra, Shaiva Tantra, Rudrayamala Tantra,Shakra Tantra, Maula Tantra,Kuleya Tantra, Damar tantra, Swachchand Bhairav Tantra, Nakul Tantra, Vatul Tantra, Kakchandeeshwara tantra, harmekhala etc and make himself expert of the Ras subjects.

The time of Nagarjuna Third is seems to be of round about 8th century.He broke the ideas of Adya Shankaracharya. The period of the Adya Shancharacharya is round about 788 AD. Shri Sarah Bhadra was the chief of the Nalanda University. Nagarjuna and Shabasidhdha were two famous Ras siddha of his time. Shabar Siddha belong to the king Dharam Pal of Gaur Desha. The period of the Kinh Dharam Pal is 760 to 809 AD. In this way the calculation of the period is matching. The name of Ras Siddha Nagarjuna Third is mentioned in the classics of the Ras Ratna Pradeep, Rasendra Chunamani, Ras Prakash, Sudhakar, Kakchandeeshwar Tantra, Kalpa Tantra, Lauha Sarwashwam,Rasopanishad etc. Brand Madhav and Chakradatta is also mentioning the Nagarjuna.

WORK DONE BY NAGARJUNA THIRD {TRATEEYA}

The Ras siddha Nagarjuna Third was follower of Buddha and a master of Sansakrit and Magadhi Language.He has written a Ras Vidya book named Kachchaput.He was follower of Mahayan Buddha religion, therefore he have written many books on Vajrayaan and Mahayaan, which is said to be available in Tanjaur Library. Nagarjuna have also written the following classical books: 1- Nagarjuna Tantra 2- Nagarjuna Siddhanta, 3-Lauha shashtra 4-Ras Ratnakar 5-Yoga Ratna Mala 6-Rasendra Mangal 7-Rudrayamal Tantra 8-Siddha Nagarjuneeyam [Kachchaput] 9-Yog shatakam 10-Chintananad Pateeyashi 11-Arogya Manjari

Besides these literature,he mastered some foolproof formulea of Ayurveda and established Urine examination theory for diagnosis of diseases and doshas. Many Yogas are seen in the classical books of Mercury-sulphur based formulations collections titled Ras Padhyati, Ras sanket Kalika, Ras Ratna Samuchchaya, Yoga Ratnakar, Ras Kamdhenu, Kakchandeeshwar, Ras Ratna Pradeep, Aushadhi Kalpa etc.

Some famous Ayurvedic Yogas of Nagarjuna is below, all of them are still using today:

• Kanak Sunder Ras, used in severe diarrhoea
• Laghu Siddhbhra Ras used in Inflammatory condition of bowels and irritable bowel syndromes
• Arogyavardhini Ras used in Gout, Hepatitis of all kinds, Hepatospleenomegaly etc
• Nagarjunabhra Ras used in all kinds of Cardiac, heart, cardiovascular problem
• Khageshwara Ras used in leprosy, leucoderma and all kinds of Skin disorders
• Shleshma Shailendra Ras uses in Asthama, pulmonary disorders, laryngotracheal problems
• Agrasayana uses in digestive disorders, ailementary problems

User:Dbbajpai1945@sify.com 11:45 PM IST 15 August 2006 Krishna-Janmashtamy

Safety concern: mischievious propaganda against Ayurveda Medical science

It is highly objectionable that some concerns are propagating against Ayurveda, the Indian system of medicine. They are raising questions that heavy metals which are used in the Ayurvedic formulea , is dangerous to the health. Before independance, Britishers were ruling on India round about 250 years. This was the period of Kings and Nawabs. Earlier to Britishers, Mughals were ruling on India. Every Kingdoms have their own Ayurvedic practitioners to provide the health services to the public through Ayurveda because at that time no medical system was in existence. The Vaidya provides the medical treatment using these Ayurvedic medicines.Britishers have also taken treatment of the Ayurvedic practitioners during their ruling periods. Not a single evidence is available that any Britishers or foreigner have gone through with any serious problems , as it is said about kidney and liver etc. Even then Bhav Mishra in his Bhav Prakash Classical book mentions the accurate and foolproof treatment of the Syphilis and Gonorrhoea, the diseases spread in India by the contact of the Europeans.Heavy metals are used in the treatment for total cure of thiese diseases.

Regarding use of Lead,Arsenic, Mercury, these metals are used after a process of purification. By the process of purification, the toxicity of the metals becomes very less and is used for the preparation of the drugs. In Ayurvedic formulary few medicines are containing Lead,few medicines are containing Arsenic and no medicine of only [single] Mercury which have mentioned in the Ayurveda page. Mercury is always used after purification process with purified Sulphur. Without mixing Sulphur, Mercury can not be used in any formula because it will never mix up with any herbs. Only Sulphur have the power to mix and assimilate Mercury and provides a black powder forms, which is known "Kajjali".

Those who are talking for steroid in the formula, they should clear it up, what brand they have examined,whether the formula is classical or proprietory, who is the producer of the drug etc. Merely saying that the Ayurvedic drugs are poisonous, is not justifiable.

In my opinion, these are the mischivious attacks on Ayurveda done by those who have never used Ayurvedic medicines in the treatment and is opposing Ayurveda for the opposition only.

User:Dbbajpai1945@sify.com 05:50 PM IST 14 August 2006

With respect, there is convincing evidence that consuming heavy metals carries health risks (see the links in the article). The article does not say that ayurvedic medicines are poisonous; it does say (and provide evidence for the fact that) medicines containing heavy metals carry health risks. These metals have been found in about 20% of ajurvedic medicines sold in the US (see citacion in article) - this carries health risks, and it is appropriate to mention these in the article. The article does provide evidence that ajurvedic treatment has caused health problems for Indians, including "kidney and liver damage due to mercury deposition, nerves and abdominal problems due to lead." [4] Even if ayurvedic medicines have not harmed 'foreigners' and have 'only' injured Indians (something I find unlikely), this is not exactly an argument in their favour.

Re. the 'purification' of ajurvedic medicine, this has not been shown to be reliable (and the fact that heavy metals are found in the medicines suggests that it is unreliable). As Meera Nanda puts it "We constantly hear assurances from the proponents of Ayurveda that the traditional process of turning heavy metals into bhasams "detoxifies" them and makes them harmless. The message is that if the manufacturers faithfully followed the instructions in the classic Ayurvedic texts, there would be no problem of toxicity...But we are supposed to accept these assurances of faith alone, for they are not based upon any actual research." [5] Jon m

Surely people who have never used Ayurvedic medicine, and never intend to use Ayurvedic medicine, should be considered by default to be more neutral regarding Ayurveda than someone who is a practitioner of Ayurveda? Dbbajpai1945, you have made several statements that are patently false and impossible for anyone to know. Your word alone cannot be trusted, since you have lost the assumption of good faith edits. Provide evidence to back up your statements and do not present your opinions as fact.--Myk 03:20, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Mercury: as uses in Ayurveda

The use of Mercury as medicine in Ayurveda is centuries ago. First of all it should be known to all that Mercury is naturally founded in the unpurified form and is never used as medicine both internally and externally. This fact was observed by the Old age Ayurvedicians as it is mentioned in the classical book RAS TARANGINI written by Shri Sadanand Sharma. Ras Tarangini, Pancham Tarang, verse 5 and 6 narrates the charecteristics of the unpurified Mercury. Verses 7 to 9, narrates the Unpurified Mercury's bad effects, which are eight in numbers.

Unpurified Mercury contains eight abnormalities, which causes severe and serious problems of human health. These eight abnormalities are: 1-Nag, 2-Vang, 3-Vahin, 4-Mala, 5-Chapalya, 6-Visha, 7-Giri, 8-Asahayagni.

1-Nag's bad effect causes wounds and absecess, 2-Vang's bad effects causes Leprosy, Leucoderma and anomalies of blood , 3-Vahin causes Hyperpyerexia,high fever, increases body heat, 4- Mala causes rigidity, motionless body, 5-Chapalya causes abnormality of reproductive systems, 6-Visha causes loss of life, death, 7- Giri causes severe skin disorders, 8-Asahayagni causes mental disorders, mental diseases.

The Ayurvedic practitioners, hundreds thousands years before, observed the bad effects of the Mercury and they warned in the verse 9 last line that Mercury should be used after the purification of these abnormalities.

Verse 14 to 16 tells the need of Mercury purification. Verse 17 to 18 tells the quantity of Mercury taken at a time for the purification. The process of the purification is given in the verse 22 to 26, in which the herbs are used to eradicate the all eight abnormalities of Mercury.This is known first process of the purification. The second process is given in the verses 27 to 30. The third process is given in verse 31. The fourth process is given in the verse 32 to 33. Two more processes of the purification is given in the verses 34 to 37.

Apart from this, Asta sansakar and Sixteen samsakara of the mercury purification is also given in the Ras Tarangini.

After passing from these purification processes, Mercury is used in the preparation of the Mercury-sulphur based medicaments with herbs, minerals mixture etc. It is observed by the Ayurvedicians that mixing Mercury with purified sulphur, the combination is suitable to human consumption without any harm.

GREY POWDER This powder is used by the British Doctors. They named it 'Grey powder'.The internal use of the Gray powder cures Diarrhoa, Vomitting, Gonorrhoea and Syphilis. It is particularly beneficial to childrens. The method of the preparation is very easy. One part purified Mercury and two parts of purified Chalk [Calcium Carbonate], mix both with the help of Mortar and Pestal. In Khasta Tarang of Ras Tarangini verse 9 to 19 tells the preparation, doses and uses. The adult dose of this powder is 50 milligram and for children 5 to 10 milligram. When the symptoms of disease subsides or cured, the gray powder should withdraw immediately and the doses should not be used frequently. This formula is also find in some Allopathic Pharmacy books.

In books of toxicology, over 15 kinds of Mercury preparation is founded. But in Ayurveda only Quick silver or Mercury is used, which is after the vigourous process of purification.

One Mercury-sulphur based medicine:

Sootshekhar Ras

Contents: One part each of the followings: Purified Mercury, Purified Sulphur,Phoola of Suhaga, Purified Vatsanabha, Suwarn Bhasam, Tamra Bhasam, Ginger, Black pepper, Peepal, Shuddha dhature ke beej, Tej patra, Nagkeshar, Elaichibeej, Belgiri, Shankha Bhasam, Kachoor [total 16 herbs and minerals] should be taken in equal quantity of eachone. Mix all with the help of mortar and pestal, grinding all by mixing Eclypta elba {bhrangraja} fresh juice. When juice dried again mix juice and grind. Repeat the process total 7 times.

The dose of this medicine at present is 100 milligrams to 200 milligrams with honey one or two times a day, morning or evening or both the times with Anupan according to the disease conditions.

Indications: This medicine is covering the wide varieties of the disease conditions.The medicine cures Hyperacidity, Vomitting, Nausea, Abdominal Intestinal colic, Abdominal Tumours, Bronchitis, cough of all nature, Dysentery, Burning sensations, Diarrhoea, complaints arising from Tridosha, Asthama,Diminished Hunger, Very acute hiccough, Flatulence, Frequent Eructations,feeling of temparature, Tuberculosis, pathophysiology of ailimentary canal etc.

The above formula contains the purified Mercury only 06 to 12 milligrams per dose.

The fatal dose of Unpurified Mercury is 03 grains [about 200 milligrammes] to 20 grains according to the book of toxicology.

The difference is that Ayurveda uses mixture of the purified Mercury with the purified Sulphur and not alone. Purified Sulphur assimilates the therapeutic and curing properties of Mercury in itself and when this mixture is mixed with the herbs, it becomes an assured medicaments.

Now evaluate whether the Ayurvedic Mercury-sulphur combination Medicines are toxic ?

User:Dbbajpai1945@sify.com 11:45 PM IST 17 August 2006

Could you please clarify - are you saying that British doctors today are prescribing mercury-based medicines to children? If so, could you give a reference for this, or an example of British doctors who are doing this? Thanks Jon m

Lead : uses as Ayurvedic Medicine

Lead is used as medicine in Ayurveda. But the Lead is used as 'Bhasma' after purification process of the metal. Let us know, what is Bhasama ?. It is similar to when wood is burnt and the wood is lastly converts in ash. Ash in english and Bhasma in Sanskrit / Hindi language, both have similar meanings.

Likely to this, Lead is first purified according to the process of purification, narrated in the classical books of Ayurveda and then it is converted in the Bhasma form.

Masters of the Ayurveda of olden times observed and experienced that Lead can not be used as medicine, as it is found in the natural state. In Ras Tarangini, the classical book of Ayurveda, in chapter Ekonvinshastarang, verse 4 to 6 narrates that use of impure or unpurified Lead causes anomaly of blood, produce Leprosy, Leucoderma and several Skin disorders, joints problems, paralysis, tumours, anomaly of urine, diabetes,tympenitis of Abdomen, dropsy, fistula, anus problems, Digestive disorders, Cervical spondylitis,frozen shoulders, abdominal colic, tuberculosis etc. The masters of Ayurveda warned the Vaidyas that purified Lead should be used for medicinal preparations. In verses 7 to 10 the process of purification of the Lead is given.

The Bhasma process of purified Lead is several and they are given in verses 11 to 45.

The dose of the Naag [Lead] Bhasma is 30 milligrammes to 120 milligrams, as advised in verse 46 to be taken one or two times with the Anupana according to the disease conditions.

Indication of Naag [Lead] Bhasama

The indication and therapeutic uses of this bhasama is narrated in the verse 47 to 55. Some uses of Bhasma are as follows:

• cures diebetes and anomaly of urine
• Bleeding per vagina and uterus
• Bleeding Heamorrhoides
• Tuberculosis and intestinal tuberculosis
• Hydronephrosis state of kidney, swelling of kidney
• Paralysis and trembling of whole body
• Revitalise Muscular system in condition of whole body paralysis

The fatal dose of unpurified Lead is 300 grains according to the books of toxicology.

User:Dbbajpai1945@sify.com 11:45 AM IST 19 August 2006

Aresenic : uses as medicine in Ayurveda

Arsenic is a fatal poison. The fatal dose of Unpurified Arsenic is 200 milligrammes and more. This fact is known to the Ayurvedicians since hundred thousands years before, that's why they warned to use Arsenic [Sankhia/Malla in Sansakrit and Hindi language] after purification processess as mentioned in the Ayurvedic classicals accordingly strictly. In Ras Tarangini classical book, chapter Ekadashtaranga, verse 133 to 137, the process of purification is given. After purification, Arsenic is ready for Bhasama procedures. In Ayurveda Sar Sangrah, a book of pharmacy and pharmaceutical preparations, tells the process of the preparation of Malla Bhasam. The Bhasma is useful in Malaria fever, Infectious fever, infections of different varieties, Arthritis, Gout, joints problems, Anomalies of Blood, Cough and Asthama of all nature, Leprosy, Leucoderma, Paralysis of all natures, Male infertelity and male sexual disorders etc etc.

ONE EXAMPLE : FROM RAS TARANGINI

SHANKHVISHODAYA RAS

Ingredients: Purified Arsenic 100 milligrams, Black pepper powder 03 Grams, Ras-sindoor 03 Gms, Purified Dhatura-beeja 02 Grams, Pippaly Churna 02 Grammes. Mix all with the help of Mortar and Pestal, pouring and mixing with Lemon juice, grind all three days continuously. Dry it in room temperature.

Doses: Above prepared medicine should be taken 100 milligrams to 150 milligrammes, morning and evening with honey or milk.

Indications: The remedy cures all kinds of Malarial fevers, Infectitious [Bacterial, parasitic,fungul,Viral] fevers and allied syndromes etc.

Now estimate and calculate, how much quantity of the Arsenic will be in each dose in this Ayurvedic preparation ?

User:Dbbajpai1945@sify.com 07:35 PM IST 20 August 2006 Sunday

<rollseyes> You do know that heavy metals, such as arsenic accumalate in the human body, right? 59.92.56.83 06:00, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

In this world, there is some downtroden fools, some childish behaviour fools, some great fools , some king of fools and some half mind fools. The great Poet of Sansakrit language, Bhartahari says about fools that Learned person should save themselves from the society of fools.

user:Dbbajpai1945@sify.com 06:45 PM IST 15 September 2006

And how does that relate to scientific evidence of dangerous levels of heavy metals found in ayurvedic medicine?Naroays 14:17, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Puff not against the wind. Throwing pearls before swine.

user:Dbbajpai1945@sify.com 11:23 AM IST 16 September 2006

Consume not the toxic heavy metals. Doing so is death.59.92.35.37 09:28, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

"Excuse them, they do not know, what they are doing ?"

Mercury single or alone never uses

Mercury is never used in its natural forms in any Ayurvedic medicines. After vigorous purification process, purified mercury is mixed with the purified sulphur in ratio of [1] One part of purified mercury and one part of purified sulphur or [2] one part of purified mercury and two parts of purified Sulphur or [3] one part of purified mercury and six part of purified Sulphur.

When purified Sulphur assimilates purified mercury, mercury converts in a black powder, kajjali. Take the reference of Sulphur from the book Foods that harm, foods that heal published by the Readers Digest Association , 1996 edition writes about the Sulphur : although sulphur is preserve in the cells of human body, but it mostly accumulated in hair, skin and nails. Sulphur mostly recieved as part of the protiene intake, which are amino acids, cysteine and methionine. Three B Vitamines thiamin, Pantothenic acid and biotine are also part of sulphur. The sources of sulphur is proteine from animal and vegetable sources. In Onion, sulphur compounds are founded and researchers believes that onion prevent the growth of cancer cells.

The black powder of the mixture of Purified Mercury and Purified Sulphur makes a new compound in which the nature of purified mercury is changed. When the herbs are mixed with this compound, the purified mercury works better and becomes more effective in healing of disease conditions.

User:Dbbajpai1945@sify.com 11:32 PM IST 21 August 2006 Monday

Comprehensive treatment and management of Ayurveda

Ayurveda provides comprehensive treatment of the diseases / disease conditions / disease syndromes. The Ayurvedic treatment and management of the patient is differ to the other medical systems. In Modern Western Medicine [Allopathy] the treatment is basically given by the part of the body accordingly, while in Ayurveda the treatment is given according to the patient complaints. The whole body is treated and not the particular organs as in Allopathy.

Suppose a person is suffering from the Asthmatic problems, Skin rashes, fever, abdominal pain,Irritable bowel syndromes, Arthritis, backache etc. If he desire to consult the Allopathic physicians, he have to go for the Skin specialist, Pulmonary specialist,Gastroenterologist,Orthopeadics and other physicians. He have to take the huge numbers of medicines of his diseased conditions simultaneously. While comperatively, if the patient consult the Ayurvedicians, the Ayurvedic physician will solve his whole problems, because he will provide the patient comprehensive treatment at a time and will provide the treatment according to the sick persons conditions and the syndromes.

No side effects of Ayurvedic medicines

It is misconcieved by the so many people that Ayurvedic medicines are dagerous to health. These peoples are making mistakes to understand the Ayurveda medical science. In Ayurveda about 95 percent medicines are prepared from the herbal resources. Only about 5 percents are prepared from the mixture of herbs into metals, minerals and animal kingdoms. The metalic medicines are known Rasausadhi or Lauh, in which the contents of the metals are very very low. The classical Ayurvedic medicines are consumed by the Indian masses everyday.

Most of the westerners can not understand the efficiency of the Indian traditional system, because they are fail to understand the basic philosophy of life existed in the nature and environment Ayurveda begins with the nature and environment. The science progresses step by step to understand the motive behind it. Westerners only talks of the Infections and Bacteria now, while in Ayurveda the concept of the infection was concieved by the Ayurvedicians hundred thousands years before.

In Madhav Nidan, which is a book of the collection of the symptoms, syndromes of the diseases for disgnosis purposes, is seems to be the oldest book on disease diagnosis. The book provides the knowledge of the diagnosis, which is as true as observed hundred thousands years before. Now the descriptions of the diseases which was in nutshell at that time written in Madhav Nidan, is expanded because of the introduction of the microscopes, pathological examination, scanning facilities etc. In olden days the diseases were diagnosing on the clinical syndromes and sympatomatology and so was the tradition before 40 or 50 years. Today there is no changes at all in the olden concept, because the procedure of the disease diagnosis is the same as it was thousands years before. What happened today, our knowledge about the disease diagnosis is increased because of the research in the field, but the treatment is same with little changes except the introduction of the new chemical medicines. If one go through the history of medicine before 100 years, nobody will be able to find the description of Microscopes. Bacteria, pathogens, infections came in existence after the invention of Microscope. Earlier to that there is no description of Infection, but in Ayurveda, the practitioners oberved that there is some morbific agents, who grow themselves in a certain period of the year and creat a certain syndromes, when wheather changes. They called it "Agantuk jwar" or Ahantuk Vyadhi". Ayurvedic physician observed that at the change of weather in the month of "Basant" or "Vasant" [round about February/ March], there is a disease condition appears every year and affects the masses simultaneouly. They named it Vasant Rog/Masurika/chechak [Chicken pox, small pox, measles]. Ayurvedicians finds out that the disease spreads due to polluted air, polluted atmosphere, polluted environment. They also found that by contact of the sick persons, the disease affects to the contacted personals.

[remain to write further]

That is blatantly wrong and your POV. There are many side effects associated with ayurvedic medicine. Read [6], [7]

Ayurvedic medicine has very little scientific standing. The majority of the scientific community beleives that this is a form of quackery.59.92.56.83 03:53, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Those who are saying quackery, they are mentally cracs themselves. Those who are followers of these mentally cracs, they are more than that.

user:Dbbajpai1945@sify.com 11:31 AM IST 16 September 2006

Quite true, the entire claim of quackery is rubbish. All the refs claiming "Quackery" pointed to Homeopathy, not Ayurveda. The basic precept of Ayurvedic medicine is strong and sound. Just that because Ayurveda does not have a fixed set of standards, there is greater opportunity for fraud. Ayurvedic concepts are very useful for the treatment of many mild illnesses and allergies, though they fail for more serious cases where modern medicine is the only realistic solution. Those who insult Ayurveda are ignorant people with no knowledge of the sound empiricism behind the discipline.Hkelkar 06:16, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Woah, cut the attacks. Many people consider that certain forms of ayurveda is indeed quackery. It's got no scientific basis whatsoever. The link which you removed from the article indeed verified that about ayurveda (not homeopathy). I don't have the time or energy to enter into a revert war, so I'll leave this article as such in the hope of NPOV in the future.59.92.35.37 09:28, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Read Research and innovations in Ayurveda where there is cited information about institutions such as the Bhabha Atomic Research Center and other prestigious academic institutions are doing mainstream scholarly research into Ayurvedic medicines before making baseless statements about which you don;t seem to have much knowledge. The article contains citations of peer-reviewed medical journals from academia only. Please do not violate WP:OR and put unsourced nonsense into wikipedia articles unless you have specific sourced information to the effect that academia debunks Ayurveda as "quackery". So far, all you have advanced is your opinion, which is not a candidate for a wikipedia edit and I suggest you keep it to yourself. Thanks.Hkelkar 10:04, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Nowhere in your refs is the pejorative "quackery" mentioned (not in the ones where Ayurveda is even discussed) and some of your refs did fail verification wrt Ayurveda and, in fact, mentioned homeopathy. Before you put in bogus edits with false refs, please

Scientific Critiscim

This article is heavily POV and biased! Maybe the worst article on wikipedia. Where' the scientific Critiscim of ayuervedic treatment? I can find sources for - The fact that ayurvedic treatment is thought of pseudoscience, and has very little scientific standing. - shortcomings of the supposedly huge body of experimental and clinical data supporting alternative medical theories. In fact, outside review has discredited all their work. - scientific criticism of the questionable techniques. We really need it to make this article NPOV59.92.55.140 02:08, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

There I did a major rewrite of the article and added a science and ayurveda section. What do you think?59.92.56.83 05:59, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

The edits had a lot of failed verifications. Many of the sources pointed to criticism of homeopathy and the general precept of "Holistic Medicine" and were not specific to Ayurveda. Homeopathy is a western pseudoscience, not an Indian one. If you read the refs, the criticism is specific to a lack of modern standards in Ayurveda which leads to fraud, exaggerated claims, poor quality etc. However, Ayurvedic medicine is sound for treating and partially curing many ailments (uaually minor ones). Obviously, the Vedic Rishis did not possess the technology or the means to study or cure more sophisticated diseases

(many of which evolved during more contemporary times) such as Diabetes, Cancer, AIDS, Alzheimers etc. Plus, drastic medical treatments requiring sophisticated surgery or powerful antibiotics etc will not work Ayurvedically. However, Ayurvedic medicine can treat mild allergies (through Herbal antihistamines), it can supplement diets (multivitamin herbs, preparations, mineral sources like calcium etc.), it can enhance some neurological abilities through extended use (Vishwanathan Anand, India's Chess master and possessor of the highest IQ recorded in India in recent years, enhanced his memory with Ayurvedic regimen that lasted years).It's all about the right dosage and the right kind of treatment, which often doesn;t work because of the lack of organization in the field, the lack of a medical standards baseline, and the lack of objective testing that leads to exaggerated claims, fraudulent practices etc.Hkelkar 06:30, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I agree. Nice neutral edits Hkelkar.59.92.39.252 08:30, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Looks great. Your rewrite was very much needed. The article was rampant with linkspam and is much better now with your cleanup. It really needed a science section. On the other hand, I think you're barking up the wrong tree with the skeptic angle. I understand that there may not be much out there in the way of research supporting this topic, but Ayurveda is much bigger than evidence-based and scientific methods. There will be plenty of published work in the years to come, as the NIH/CAM institute is in the middle of the largest study ever done. Keep in mind that it's 3300+ years old and it may take time for westerners to understand it.

Let's toss the tags {verify} {totallydisputed} and [Category:Pseudoscience] and keep {OR} in two places to encourage practitioners to add their knowledge. Let's discuss here for future changes in this direction. I’ll check back daily.

Maybe get a username too..? so people can get an understanding of your motives, expertise, etc? I would enjoy working with you to make it a better article.
Thanks! --Travisthurston 02:13, 15 September 2006 (UTC)?

Why the foreigners are interested in patenting Ayurvedic herbs and drugs?

If Ayurvedic science is so bad for some criticisers, commenting that they have not yet seen the worst page in the whole Wekipeadia articles [ now they have seen ] and according to them , this is the worst and worst article they have read. Whether they have thought over it, if Ayurveda is so bad, why Americans and other foreigners are interested in the patenting of the Ayurvedic herbs and Ayurvedic formulea? There is a big list for obtaining the patent in various countries patent's offices for patenting the Ayurvedic herbs.

Some years ago, Turmeric and Azadiracta Indica was patented by some Americans. The patent was challenged by the Indian Government to quash the patent. Now Ashwagandha and other herbs are patenting by the foreigners. What is it? At one side, they are abusing and defaming Ayurveda and other side they are wanting benefit from Ayurveda. It shows, they are playing the double game and showing their double personality. Their intentions seems bad, unfair and dishonest. user:Debbe, 27 October 2006, 07: 50 PM IST

Hey I found references that attest to this:

1. "Turmeric Patent Overturned in Legal Victory." by Johnston, Barbara A., Webb, Ginger, HerbalGram; Fall1997 Issue 41, p11, 2p
2. This archive of a Times of India article.Hkelkar 08:12, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Firstly, some 'treatments' are completely ineffective but still very profitable (e.g. homeopathy). Patents on this type of thing can be valuable, even if the treatment is useless. The fact that something is patented (or that people have tried to patent it) doesn't prove it works.

Secondly, it's feasible (very likely, I'd say) that some ayurvedic treatments are effective; however, this doesn't mean that other ayurvedic treatments aren't ineffective and/or dangerous. The wikipedia article should include both 'sides' of this story. Jon m

Er, dude, get your facts straight. homeopathy has nothing to do with Ayurveda. Homeopathy originated in Europe, not India. Plus, the article DOES present both sides of the story.Hkelkar 20:41, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

More information

I am a little busy with another article right now but I would appreciate if somebody looked at these references to expand the Ayurveda and Research and innovations in Ayurveda:

http://ecam.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/2/4/465?etoc

http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0031-8221(198707)37%3A3%3C245%3AAATHPS%3E2.0.CO%3B2-F

In case you don't have jstor subscription, I do and can get a copy of the article for you to read. Please notify me in my talk page if anyone has the time to do this. Thanks.Hkelkar 11:13, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Miraculous cure : Ayurveda under scanner

Meera Nanda's article Ayurveda under scanner is less than half, devoted to Baba Ramdev. Some part of the article is with the opinion of few doctors. Some part is to communist. Some part is to Government. But no part is seen to Ayurveda. It is very easy to critisize over any thing. The article is nothing and not written seriously acording to the caliber of Meera Nanda , who is perhaps research scholar in United States somewhere, researching in religion and science. No body knows about her medical qualification or medical knowledge, because the article is full of cricism and shows the negative attitude of the writer. The article is lacking nutrality. The Journalists are said to be, the jack of all but master of none.

Few years back, in a Televison interview, while one of the senior most Journalist of India was inteviewing to Kashmir's Chief Minister Abdullah, the journlist asked, why you are not solving the problem of Kashmir, now is the time the central government is with you and this is the best time to solve the Kashmir's problems? . In reply to question, Chief Minister Abdullah asked question to that journalist, whether he can solve the problem of the Kashmir?. The journalist replied that Yes, he have solution of the Kashmir problems, but he is not the chief minister of the state and without being the CM, how is possible to solve the problem ? Abdullah replied that National conference is in majority at the movement, if you have any solution of the solving of Kashmir problem, I will depute you Chef Minister within few hours and you can solve the problem very easily. The next movement, most senior journalist shamefully geared back and told to Abdullah that he is having no solution of the Kashmir problem.

Nanda is a reserch fellow in the field of religion, we should await about her unique contribution in religions, which is a necessity in the present era. The world is being divided in the different ideology in Christianity and in Islam. If she should work on these important topics, her share and contribution will be more appreciated.

User:Debbe 11:48 PM 14 October 2006

I have tried to neutralize that bit by writing about the other side of the story. Basically the Baba Ramdev thing was just a smear campaign by that commie Brinda Karat that was so obvious that even other commies condemned her for it.Incidentally, my father had been following the controversy and he told me that Baba Ramdev's did not reveal the fact that he had been following normative ayurvedic practice of using deer horns to boost the Calcium content of his medicines. He didn;t do this because he didn;t want to piss of his more finicky Jain followers.Brinda Karat got wind of this and exploited the situation to her advantage, spreading absurd nonsense about Ramdev using "Human Body parts" (she obviously saw too many reruns of "Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom", lol!), then got thoroughly thrashed by both left-wing and right-wing politicians.Her credibility is shot to nothing as far as I can see.Hkelkar 07:41, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Developmental History of Ayurveda

Take the reference: Acharya Pandit Vishwa Nath Dwivedi, Ayurveda Brahaspati, ex-director, IASR, Jamnagar, Gujarat, now presently associated with the Gujarat Ayurveda University, Jamnagar, writes in his book "Bharatiya Ras Shastra", that at the very beginning of the Ayurveda, when no written words were invented, at that time the Guru-Shishya parampara was persisting. Guru transferes the knowledge through shruty-smraty [listening and memorising] traditions. Some times after, these words were engraved on the stones of the caves. The disciples were memorising the words and sentences according to their capacity of storage of memory. Later when literature increases, the division of memorising of the words and senetences, had been segregated to different groups. Thus the tradition of Ayurveda was alive by this methods.

After that when script came in existence ,the sentences were written on the stones,woods,taalpatra, bhojpatra and copper sheets.

Reference from the book title: Bharatiya Ras Shastra, Sachitra, Kriyatmak Aushadhi Nirman Sahit, authour: Ayurveda Brahaspati Acharya Pandit Vishwa Nath Dwivedi, Ayurveda Shashtracharya, BA, Ex-director: IASR, Jamnagar, Proffessor and Vibhagaadhyaksha, Snatkottar Shikshan kendra, Jamnagar, Dean of the faculty of Ayurveda, Gujarat University, Ahamdabad,Pracharya, Sansakrit Vishvavidyalaya, Varanasi, Member, Scientific Advisory Board, Gujarat Ayurveda Vshwa Vidyalaya - Jamnagar:Publisher: Shri Sharma Ayurveda Mandir, Datiya, Jhansi, Varanasi, Nagpur, edition; 1987, Hindi Language

user:debbe, 31 October 2006, 06:50 PM IST

Verses from Atharvaveda

Take the reference from Atharvaveda:

The fourth kanda of Atharvaveda, 13 sookta and Dasham Mandal of Rigvada, 137 sookta is famous for the "Roga-Nivarana sootra". It is believed that the originator of these sookta are Rishi Santati, Devata Chandrama and Vishwadeva. While in Rigveda the first mantra is written by the Rishi Bhardwaj, Second Kashyapa, Tratiya Gautama, Chaturtha Atri, Pancham Vishwamitra, Khasta Jamadagni and Saptama Rishi Vashistha and Devata Vishvodeva. By chanting these verses continuously normal health is assured, it is believed. The Rishies have prayed to dieties for providing cure to sick.

The followings are the seven verses from Atharvaveda;

1- Uta Deva avahitam deva unnatha punah, Utagashrachkrusham deva deva jeevayatha punah:

english translation: O god, o god, those who are fall down, give them strength to up. O god , o god, and those who have done sin, alive them alive them

2- Dwavimou vato vata aa sindhora parawata, Daksham te anya aavatu vyanyo vatu yadrapah ;

english translation: These are two Vayu