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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Tony Sidaway (talk | contribs) at 10:59, 6 January 2005 (→[[QuakeAID]]). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

QuakeAID

If you stalk my habits, then you know I'm not a deletionist by nature. This article was created by an employee of the QuakeAID corporation. The reason I am listing this article is not only because it is vanity/self-promotion, but also because the authenticity of this company has been brought into question. Please correct me if I'm wrong. —RaD Man (talk)

Note: Please vote below. Discussion should take place on the talk page.

  • For the time being I am casting a vote of extreme delete. —RaD Man (talk) 18:56, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep. RaD Man is on some personal quest through a series of attacks without making his points clear. He states "authenticity of this company has been brought into question" -- I'd hate to be a stickler here for using the correct language, but there is no question that QuakeAID is "authentic". Perhaps what he is trying to say is that "legitimacy of this company has been brought into question" but he didn't say that. I have asked him to specify what his objection is, but he does not reply. --BAOU 06:36, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete, non-notable company, and Wikipedia is not a billboard ("How to donate to QuakeAID"? Come on, now). Ливай | ☺ 19:20, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)
    • Interesting comment. How would you provide a link on a page which is intended to be informative as the the way that someone can donate to organizations collecting donations for victims of the Indian Ocean tsnumanis? QuakeAID is the only organization that is 100% dedicated to providing relief for victims of earthquakes, and has been doing this since July 1998. Because it has done this from Greece, is perhaps why a number of US-based organizations do not record it. However, believe me, there is a world outside the US. Not all charities are US-based and or US-created. --BAOU 06:36, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)
      • My objection to the donation link is that it is essentially a solicitation, requesting that the reader pay money, which is frowned upon in an encyclopedia, even for good causes. My vote to delete was based on my opinion that for any organization, there has to be some evidence that it is somehow noteworthy, that it stands out from others and is generally well-known in its field. Just doing charitable work does not make an organization encyclopedic. And contrary to the stereotype, there are actually lots of people in this country who are aware of the world outside the US, including me. I would vote according to the same policy just as readily to a non-notable American company. — Ливай | ☺ 02:49, 4 Jan 2005 (UTC)
  • If company and references to it can be found elsewhere with any frequency, keep and note fraudulence. Otherwise delete. -Fennec (はさばくのきつね) 19:25, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)
    • By elsewhere you mean where? Which authority would satsify the users of this medium? Tax authorities in Greece, where the organization has been pay tax (no tax breaks in Greece) since 1998? --BAOU 06:36, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)
    • Please pay special attention to the fact that most mentions are either in reference to the power struggle over quakeaid.com with WIPO or they are "press releases" from baou.com. [1] (Note the article was created by User:Baoutrust. —RaD Man (talk) 18:56, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)
      • I think you should pay attention to that struggle. You are at risk as well. The facts, which I suspect you have not even considered are that QuakeAID registered quakeaid.com through Network Solutions. During the first year of registration, while the amount paid $70 was still *in force*, Netsol allowed and Register.com was able to permit the registration of the domain name by another person (could be one of the people so fervently objecting to QuakeAID's presense here) and despite numerous legal attempts against Netsol, and then the registrant, it has been unable to recover its property. From my perspective, QuakeAID is the victim. --BAOU 06:36, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. Looks Google-bombed. I haven't seen one source mentioning this company that I consider reliable. --kooo 19:38, Jan 2, 2005 (UTC)
    • Really, well if you look alittle harder you see that a very nice guy climed a very large mountain in Turkey for us a couple years ago. There's one. Maybe you didn't look hard. --BAOU 06:36, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)
      • What I mean is that this organization seems to be non-notable for wikipedia. You really need to read our policies, you've broken a lot of them — such as blanking this vote and other talk pages, personal attacks, ... --kooo 10:45, Jan 3, 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete (changed vote from delete to keep to no vote yet to delete. Final vote.) If NASA finds this organization to be credible, we should too.NASA Brownman40 23:32, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)
    • Bravo. One person looked. See there's two. There are more, but you have to want to find them. --BAOU 06:36, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)
    • I don't see anything on that page indicating that NASA finds QuakeAID to be credible or not. —RaD Man (talk) 23:40, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)
      • So there you have it. RaD Man is on a personal quest. --BAOU 06:36, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)
      • There is no disclaimer on that page by NASA that says that these links have not been verified. This organization may have pulled wool over NASA's eyes, but then again this link does cast some very reasonable doubt to the claim that QuakeAID is fraudulent. Brownman40 00:51, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)
        • I don't see that. The NASA page claims to be a search service and describes the QuakeAid as "spider URL." It's not a rating or evaluation any more than Google is. Presumably NASA's search would pick up any organization, credible or fraudulent, that described itself as providing disaster relief. Dpbsmith (talk) 01:42, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete Neither QuakeAid nor Baou is listed by http://www.give.org (BBB's philanthropic advisory serivce), http://www.charitynavigator.org or http://www.charitywatch.org. Absence of a listing means only that the organization has not been investigated. However, these organizations have a wide scope; Charity Navigator in particular has evaluated 3400 charities. Because of the danger of allowing Wikipedia to be used as a promotional vehicle for dodgy charities, I do not believe we should accept articles by charities unless they have been rated by at least one of these three organizations (and the articles should generally contain external links to the ratings). This insures that readers have access to at least one independent evaluation of the charity. Dpbsmith (talk) 00:41, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC) P. S. GuideStar doesn't know anything about QuakeAID, either.
    • Excellent point. Brownman40 02:51, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)
      • Not really a valid point, but I dealt with it above. The organization is/was based in Greece since 1998. Recently, it established a US office. All procedures, including a number of registrations have been initiated to make it possible for tax exemption, etc., but the organizations you mention are all US based. We would not have previously contacted them and as you know, they do not seek out charities. --BAOU 06:36, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)
      • Shouldn't there be something on their web site about being a non-profit corporation in the eyes of the IRS? (I can't find such a notice.) Gyrofrog 03:06, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)
        • Already dealt with, but to be specific, QuakeAID's EIN is 20-2072945. Application for tax exemption has been made. The process is long but when complete, details of the tax exemption will be published on our website. However, that does not mean, to use RaD Man's word, that QuakeAID is authentic. --BAOU 06:36, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)
          • I have an EIN as well. Two, in fact. That doesn't make me a non-profit or charitable organization. So, you've filed for tax-exemption status but it has not yet been approved. I think I've heard enough. —RaD Man (talk) 07:29, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)
            • Furthermore, if the organization was founded in 1998, and its now 2005... Yeeeaaah. Exactly. —RaD Man (talk) 07:38, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)
  • Well, if RADman thinks it needs to go.... man, someone record this for blackmail later. Seriously, though, delete. hfool/Wazzup? 03:02, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)
    • That's alittle scary. If RaD Man thinks... Let's hope these two users actually know each other and we don't have another example of Internet love here. --BAOU 06:36, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)
      • It's a jocular reference to RaD Man (talk)'s well-known and frequently articulated belief that articles should be deleted only in extreme cases. A VfD nomination by him carries extra weight and deserves careful consideration for that very reason. Dpbsmith (talk) 17:22, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete, seriously nn, probably vanity. Wyss 03:21, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)
    • The article published to this service is 100% factual. There is nothing except facts in it. I defy anyone to provide a single example of any vanity. --BAOU 06:36, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)
      • If it were created primarily to serve your interests rather than the interests of Wikipedia's readership, then it would be vanity. Self-serving = it's all about me = vanity. Dpbsmith (talk) 17:22, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep, but mark fraudulent, information is good, regardless if it is good or evilPatcat88 04:56, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)
  • Strong Delete. Somebody in the WWW 06:11, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)
    • If you do that, mark every article as fraudulent OR prepare to be in court. --BAOU 06:36, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)
      • Ooh, a legal threat. Wow, we've never seen one of those before. Delete, and block the user for making legal threats. RickK 08:25, Jan 4, 2005 (UTC)
    • I'd just like to comment that I have not seen anything to indicate that this is a fraudulent organization. If it is, it should be swiftly reported to the authorities. My main concern is that QuakeAID seems questionable at best, and it doesn't bode too well when the same single user (User:Baoutrust) is spamming Wikipedia with a bunch of other self-promotional articles to boot. —RaD Man (talk) 05:13, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)
      • I have waited for this one. SPAMMING? There are 4 pages. OfficialWire. Note: No one complained about this one. QuakeAID The attack is really from one user RaD Man, who will not specify the objection. Kaith No different than any article about an artist. George Dracos Again, no one objected to that article and it is pretty-much the same as Kaith. I find it interesting that even the rants/attacks are not thorough.
  • Reluctant keep, if only for the fact that WP appears to be the only resource on the web that summarizes this organization's status as a charity. That summary (and pretty much that alone) is a valuable piece of information. --MarkSweep 10:55, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)
    • IMO, a piece of information is not "valuable as fact" anymore if it's factual accuracy is in serious doubt. However, it is still very "valuable as doubt" as a piece of information though. --Godric 18:11, Jan 3, 2005 (UTC)
  • Totally obvious scam. Delete. Gzornenplatz 14:34, Jan 3, 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete, a definately-non-notable probably-scam. --fvw* 16:58, 2005 Jan 3 (UTC)
  • Reconsidering - because the factual accuracy of its proclaiming to be a "charitable organization" is seriously questionable. --Godric 18:06, Jan 3, 2005 (UTC), and please see detail of my take here.
    • I agree, but that is not a criterion for deletion. The question is, is this a notable, encyclopedic topic? (I don't know the answer to that, see talk page for my opinion on this.) --MarkSweep 18:29, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. Non-notable, possible scam. Jayjg | (Talk) 21:14, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete, doesn't appear to be notable. As for being a scam, though, if it was a notable scam, I wouldn't have a problem with us having an article on it. But it doesn't seem notable to me. - Vague | Rant 04:14, Jan 4, 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. Dori | Talk 04:18, Jan 4, 2005 (UTC)
  • Consign to bit-bucket. Non-notable, vanity, scam, kitchen sink. Delete this iteration, with the understanding that the article be re-created documenting the allegations against QuakeAID. Mackensen (talk) 04:21, 4 Jan 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep. Agree with MarkSweep. This obvious scam should be exposed for what it is. GRider\talk 18:57, 4 Jan 2005 (UTC)
    • I'm reconsidering my vote now, because I've found more tricky dispute cases involving MPC-Trust/Baou-Trust on the web which they eventually lost. I'll add the new findings into Talk page. (note: Baou_Trust has been deleted today, but we can always start a new one for investigation purpose.)
Actually we can't use it due to "Boau_Trust" being copyrighted, and now deleted, right?
  • Keep. Looks better now. +sj + 14:33, 5 Jan 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep The prominent WIPO dispute on the QuakeAID.org domain name alone would merit an article. The goings on between the original registrants and various other companies, the Desmond publishing group, etc are also encyclopedic. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 10:59, 6 Jan 2005 (UTC)
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