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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Timeline of fictional historical events, Timeline of fictional future events

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Timeline of fictional historical events and Timeline of fictional future events

I would generally refer to articles such as these as fancruft and be done with it, but I do not want to disparage the obvious effort that multiple contributors have put into these articles. The fact remains, however, that the articles seem a bit suspect as legitamate encyclopedia articles. They are not timelines that correspond to any particular fictional series, but detail events from a hodgepodge of different books and series smashed into one long timeline. For someone looking for information on any particular series, it would make more sense to check a page devoted to that series such as Timeline of Star Trek. Furthermore, with the amount of fiction out there, it would be impossible to make this in any way complete, and right now the article focuses on sci-fi and fantasy, adding a degree of POV as well. It seems to me that the articles in question fail to inform the reader of any information in a relevent fashion (since as I said, anyone looking for this information would be better off checking pages devoted to individual fictional universes instead) and are therefore not encyclopedic. Indrian 22:00, Jan 22, 2005 (UTC)

  • Keep - as one who has done a bit of work on these articles, I obviously disagree about their worthiness. I think comparing various fictional millieus together like this is quite interesting. Also, you need to fix the VfD headers on those two pages to make sure they point here to this VfD discussion, otherwise it's harder for people who have those pages watchlisted or otherwise stumble upon them to come here and vote. Bryan 23:01, 22 Jan 2005 (UTC)
    • Comment: Good point. Fixed I think. Andrewa 23:26, 22 Jan 2005 (UTC)
    • Terribly sorry about the linking problem and my thanks to Andrewa for fixing things. While it is true that comparing "fictional millieus" as you say can be both interesting and rewarding, I believe it specious to say that these pages actually do so. They seem to be nothing more than rolls of years that list events from various universes without really doing any comparing. While some implicit comparisons can probably be drawn just by seeing some of these events side-by-side, the usefulness of these articles to draw comparisons appears rather limited. Indrian 00:06, Jan 23, 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep. Fascinating, and encyclopedic in principle. The introductions could do with some clarification, and as to exactly what is included, I'm sure we'll have no more trouble deciding that than we do in drawing the line on detail vs fancruft here. (;-> Andrewa 23:13, 22 Jan 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete This is a rare bird indeed. If it were to ever become even remotely close to being complete, it would be so ludicrously enormous (likely thousands or even hundreds of thousands of pages) that it would be of little use to anyone because of its unwieldliness. Otherwise, it would be useless because of its incompleteness. I tend to try to keep articles on culture and the arts, but I bote to delete this everythingcruft. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 23:31, Jan 22, 2005 (UTC)
    • If the articles get too long they should be quite amenable to splitting up further based on time period. Bryan 00:21, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)
      • Yes, and I think that's almost inevitable if the article grows at all. But I question its usefulness... would anybody really want to read a 50-page article on Fictional Events in March, 1938, when the same info would be better put on the individual entries for the fictional works themselves, and when a lot of real historical events of the period aren't in WP yet? Who is this article for, exactly? People who want to know what Scrooge McDuck was doing in 1947 without being bothered to look up Scrooge himself? Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 03:32, Jan 23, 2005 (UTC)
        • I doubt anyone wants to read 50 pages worth of fictional things that happened in March of 1938, but IMO that's a silly strawman with no real bearing on whether these articles should be deleted - the timelines are currently nowhere near that dense, nor will they be in the forseeable future. If people are interested only in what Scrooge McDuck was doing in 1947 then this probably isn't the article for them, they should go to a Scrooge-specific article and I don't see why they'd think it'd be easier to find in this one instead. This article is for bringing together a broad range of fictional events from a variety of sources. One can use it to find out things like "what have various writers imagined the next hundred years to be like?" or "what major works of fiction have been set in the time of ancient Babylon?". How would someone do that if the date references are all scattered throughout Wikipedia's article space? Bryan 09:58, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep. Very interesting, a lot of people have put a lot of work into this. RickK 23:33, Jan 22, 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep. I would like to contend that not all fictional historical and future events have their own timelines, and many of their timelines are not long enough to warrant a complete timeline article anyway. Having these fictional events here is an easier way to keep track of these individual "events" in a linear fashion. I would also like to argue that specific events from other timelines (most notably events from Dates in Harry Potter) be kept off these timelines; a brief mention for linear purposes is more practical.--DXI 00:10, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep. Rje 01:12, Jan 23, 2005 (UTC)
  • Merge/split into appropriate articles, then delete. These timelines should be segregated into their own pages, or when insufficient content exists for a specific fictional universe to merit its own timeline page, merged into the page for that fictional universe as a section. The ability to cross-correlate fictional historical events from multiple different timelines is of no encyclopedic value that I can fathom. —Kelly Martin 01:56, Jan 23, 2005 (UTC)
    • Above vote is by User:Kelly Martin, who forgot to sign. Indrian 01:17, Jan 23, 2005 (UTC)
    • Comment: I think again we're falling into the trap of thinking that something is not encyclopedic unless everyone finds it interesting and useful. Not everyone will find this of any use, certainly. I find it quite fascinating. No change of vote. Andrewa 02:03, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)
  • Weak Keep, needs cleanup and further explanation, borderline. Megan1967 01:55, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep. It's an interesting set of lists. --Matteh (talk) 02:23, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep. --Miles 03:00, Jan 23, 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep. Obviously. --Centauri 05:30, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep K1Bond007 05:34, Jan 23, 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. ugen64 05:35, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep them, they're wonderful. Wyss 07:45, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep both of them. Useful reference guide; I have no edits there but have read them before, and I think they're worth keeping. --Idont Havaname 08:02, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep. I see no problem with Wikipedia having such lists. ScottM 15:55, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep. It keeps them from crayoning on the walls. --Wetman 16:45, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep both articles are fun to read and are good starting points for a huge number of fictional works which are linked here. kaal 19:52, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep, but definitely should be made better, perhaps with guidelines about what is and isn't "historical." They're both a lot of fun, especially the future one. -LtNOWIS 00:34, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep: The effort that has gone into these pages shows that there are people willing to oversee them. If people cared enough to create the page in the first place and come back to find it deleted, there is a good chance they will just recreate it. Its here, its information, and although some people may not have a use for it others will. I know. That's how I found the wikipedia site in the first place;-) TomStar81 05:53, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep: I stumbled on the lists by 'random page' and liked them immediately (as i liked the logarythmical timeline). It has definitely to be about dates from science-fiction/alternate realities and fantasy. (if enough data ever came round, one could perhaps split this into different lists), and by the way: concur with User:Kaal Lectonar 14:33, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)
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