Talk:College football national championships in NCAA Division I FBS

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TCU has a claim to the 1935 Championship according to the NCAA website. If three schools are going to be listed, why not a fourth?

2004 NCAA Source

Here is the 2004 NCAA source for the championship information.

Also here in non-pdf format. Which polls are we using? Rkevins82 03:41, 5 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Why does Kentucky's National Championship in 1950 keep being deleted from the article?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.35.237.67 (talk • contribs).

Because only Sagarin chose Kentucky, not Associated Press, United Press, College Football Researchers Association, Helms Athletic Foundation, or National Championship Foundation (the sources used for 1950). If you believe that Sagarin should be used, make an argument here.Rkevins82 19:30, 4 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

And why don't we simply use what the actual NCCA itself states? Instead of these BIASED guidelines? Ridiculous. NCAA Div 1-A Football Champions —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.35.237.67 (talk • contribs).

Because the NCAA does not state which team is national champion, just what each of the sources says. If ou believe there are less biased ways to show the information without conveying too much information, or unqualified information, please present it. Rkevins82 19:30, 4 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

That's what I'm saying... use the sources approved by the ~NCCA itself~, no more/less. What is an arguement for using sources OTHER than what the NCAA itself deems appropriate??? There simply isn't one (not an unbiased one anyway). http://www.ncaa.org/champadmin/ia_football_past_champs.html —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.35.237.67 (talk • contribs).

First, please sign your posts. Next, you'll notice on the page you link that the NCAA is not claiming that these are reputable sources, that they picked the right team, or that they are anything more than selections (sometimes, a single newspaper writer). The sources used mirror those or expand upon those at the college football data warehouse, which has the best information and reasoning. Rkevins82 04:09, 5 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"which has the best information and reasoning" based on what? Your opinion? Of course there is no "perfect" system and the NCAA isn't claiming there is one, but the "best" would be what the ~NCAA itself~ deems so. That's the only real fair option here. I think it is ridiculous to see politics played out on a noble concept like wikipedia. But "whatever", right? That's what you want to hear, just let it drop. Let this bias slide(and just ignore the fact that such petty bias is bringing down wiki more and more all the time).— Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.35.237.67 (talk • contribs) 20:09, 2006 December 6 (UTC)

First of all, please sign your posts on Talk pages. Secondly, would you use only sources approved by the Republican Party in an article on said party? Would you use only Nazi approved sources in articles about Nazi's? Would you use only Paris Hilton approved sources in an article about her? I hope not. The same holds true for the NCAA. Third-party sources are very valid. If you think we are using an improper source or that a different source would be better, then please try to calm-down, please try to stop insulting people, and please try to make a coherent case for your opinion. Thanks, Johntex\^talk 05:05, 7 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Furthermore, what bias do the sources used have?Rkevins82 06:02, 7 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"would you use only sources approved by the Republican Party in an article on said party? Would you use only Nazi approved sources in articles about Nazi's? Would you use only Paris Hilton approved sources in an article about her? I hope not. The same holds true for the NCAA." Are you serious? Please think about what you just wrote...

Bias? I would state there is bias in listing teams/not listing teams using 3rd party "sources" while ignoring the athletic organization itself.

ps- MLB states foolishly that the St. Louis Cardinals are the actual 2006 MLB Champions... this is obvioulsy just one opinion and we should change the Cardinals article to reflect this. The Phillies won more games than the Cardinals and I have a 3rd party source that declares Philly the true 2006 champion. It's good enough for wiki.

Again, if you're going to use multiple and disputed sources... why not just use the sources the NCCA itself does instead of going by 3rd parties? It's not a complicated line of reason... but I understand it doesn't fit certain agendas... so that's fine, whatever.

Your line of reasoning is incredibly simple. It's also wrong. MLB is an incorrect analogy because there is a universal agreement on the procedure to determine their champion. No such agreement exists in NCAA Division I-A football. Since the NCAA has failed to come up with a decent method of determining a champion, we, as editors, are forced to use all sorts of third party sources to try to sort out the mire and muck. We'd be remiss in our duties if we didn't.

I've read what Rkevins82 and Johntex have said on this and their arguments have merit. Your arguments do not. Until you start signing your posts, stop insulting your opposition, stop making vague references to assumedly sinister agendas, and start behaving like a responsible editor, you're unlikely to sway anyone. You certainly haven't convinced me. --Don Sowell 17:02, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Jokers

Some unregistered joker changed "Georgia Tech" (short for "Georgia Institute of Technology") to "Georgia Tech University" for all 4 NC years ('17, '28, '52, and '90). Apparently the same joker changed the Georgia name for its one championship year of '42.

I changed all 5 back to what they should be. (If I made any mistakes in doing so, pls. correct them.) It also appears somebody deleted the International News Service (INS) from the list of polls at the top of the page. (I'll let someone else add that back in.) All jokers involved should be banned from Wikipedia, IMO, as they are making a mockery of the project. I'll watch the page and correct the four GT lines back to correct as often as necessary, so if you're doing this, don't waste your time, as few (if any) will ever see your handiwork (graffiti).

1947 and 1950

there is an * by 1947 Michigan anyone know what that is supposed to mean? Also 1950 Kentucky (Modern Analysts) Who are the mondern analysts ? Smith03 15:25, 12 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Re: the * by the 1947 Michigan team, there was an unofficial post-bowl poll that moved Michigan ahead of Notre Dame. The official final AP poll, taken before the bowls, had Notre Dame #1 and Michigan #2. This is likely the reason for the * next to Michigan, as I can't think of any other reason why it would be there. Georgiablue 14:38, 07 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

What criteria are we using?

There are more than just AP/UPI champions listed, but not all. Also, why is 1936 the cut-off year for the bottom tally? Rkevins82 21:01, 4 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Reversions back...

We should be able to agree that 1901 is the best year for calculating the most championships. This is the first year a non-Ivy League school won (since they now exclusively play one another), the first year of the Rose Bowl (which decides the national champion once ever four years now), and conveniently the beginning of the 20th century (well that just works out nicely). Starting at 1936 made some sense since that was the beginning of the AP poll, however, the AP poll has not been used exclusively since then and there were many years between 1901 and 1936 where one team was the consensus national champion. Also, BCS is now the deciding factor and is unrelated to the AP poll.

It is also important to note that schools calculate their numbers differently because they only choose to recognize certain polls, even if they contradict. Of course, "who is going to win the championship this year" is more important than "who won 100 years ago."

Also, my prior (now reverted) information is not inaccurate, as one editor noted. As demonstrated on the Ivy League page, Princeton claims 24 titles, Yale 19, etc.

Above all, this is a highly debatable topic and what is important on wikipedia is clarity and factual information.

The year should be 1936. Polls before then were not widely used or retroactive. Rkevins82 22:55, 11 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

There was as much agreement about particular winners before 1936 as after, particularly among the schools. I agree that 1936 could make a good starting point since it marks the beginning of the AP poll, but there were many years before 1936 where there was a clear winner, still recognized as the champion by contemporaries. Retroactive polls are not to be disregarded, considering much research went into calculating each team and many champions were rightfully crowned. Either start at the beginning or 1901. 68.80.237.199 00:49, 12 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Prior Champions

I agree that this should start with 1901 with the advent of college football becoming more "national." Please note that the sources mentioned do not create a correspondence between what is "universally" counted and what the schools count. I agree that Helms, consensus champs, Dickenson, AP, UPI, CNN, and the BCS (along with the retroactive champs) are all solid and must be counted. However, I must question use of "Modern Analysts" which is really Sagarin. If used, USC in 2002 would have a claim, as an example. Also, Alabama in 1941 does not fall under the accepted selectors. There are also "sub-major" selectors such as the College Football Writers and the College Football Foundation (see Iowa in 1958). Finally, Notre Dame still does not recognize its 1938 champs despite every other winning school recognizing Dickenson--pretty odd for the school who inspired and requested the Dickenson system in the first place!

ESPN vs. BCS

I propose that for years in split championships, after the BCS was instituted, rather than applying the label "ESPN", we should apply the label "BCS". Mr. Brown 04:30, 25 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

NCAA-Recognized National Championships?

According to the NCAA, they have their own list of national champions. I know that some polls are more respectable than others, but wouldn't it be better to include all of the national championships from over the years, if the NCAA accepts as national championships?

No NCAA official National Champions for DI-A football

There is no list of NCAA official national champions for DI-A football in their records book and if there were official champions, where are the trophies that would be awarded to the national champion? The NCAA does not make a championship trophy for DI-A football.

Although I like the current set up of this site, I do think that there should be a category for "claimed titles".

I have implemented standards for list

I have updated the list of National Champions using the following sources:

1869-1882 - I have used the National Championship Foundation picks ("NCF"). There are few other sources available for this period, and this is the only one "recognized" by College Football Data Warehouse as reputable.

1883-1923 - I have used Helms Athletic Foundation picks. Although other reputable sources are available, this one, to my understanding, is the most widely recognized list for this period.

1924-1934 - I have included Helms, NCF, College Football Research Associates ("CFRA"), and the Dickinson System. Dickinson was a statistical evaluation conducted beginning in 1926, with retroactive analysis for 1924 and 1925. Helms, NCF and CFRA are all recognized as reputable by College Football Data Warehouse. Helms selections are listed first as the most widely recognized source. Indeed, it would be entirely reasonable to omit CFRA, NCF and Dickinson for this period and to list any particularly strong candidate as based on "other" sources.

1935 - I add the United Press poll for this year, the end of season press poll.

1936 - I add the Associated Press poll. The United Press poll was discontinued. AP selections are now listed first as the most widely recognized source. I continue Helms, CFRA, NCF and Dickinson, although these are far less relevant beyond 1935. Again, it would be entirely reasonable to omit Helms, CFRA, NCF and Dickinson for this period and to list any particularly strong candidates as based on "other" sources.

1941 - Dickinson results are no longer produced.

1950 - I add the United Press coaches poll. This becomes the 2nd priority selection. Helms, NCF and CFRA assist in sorting out post-bowl champions.

1952 - I add International News Service, another press poll.

1954 - I add the Football Writers Association of America (FWAA), which offers the Grantland Rice Trophy to the national champion. I drop Helms, NCF and CFRA since four contemporaneous sources are now available. In 1955, the FWAA begins deciding its championship after the bowls, the first to do so, likely in response to the 1950, '51 and '53 losses by the regular season champs.

1958 - UP and INS merge and continue the UP coaches poll as the UPI.

1991 - UPI coaches poll is taken over by USA-Today/CNN.

1997 - USA-Today/CNN coaches poll is taken over by USA-Today/ESPN.

1998 - Coaches poll agrees to be bound by winner of BCS National Championship Game, so champion is now referred to as "BCS". Since the major conferences have agreed to be part of the BCS and its championship game system, the BCS replaces the AP as the first listed national championship.

In several cases I have included champions selected by "other" sources. I believe that there are strong cases for each of these. A similar case could be made for several schools during the 1876-1923 period that I have not included here. There are many references included below, however, that can be followed to learn more about these.

One championship that I did not include is the National Football Foundation and Hall of Fame's MacArthur trophy. It is now linked to the BCS like the coaches poll. It would add only a couple of champions from 1959-1990, none of which, I believe, were widely recognized.

I have changed Ohio State's redirects to redirect to Ohio State Buckeyes instead of the Ohio State University, since that seems to be the standard for most of the list.--Majorpayne27 18:48, 27 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It seems that my changes have been deleted without any explanation, does anyone disagree that the schools; link should go to their respective athletic's website? --Majorpayne27 03:20, 28 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sam left a message as to why he reverted your changes. I believe that Texas is the only school linked to the athletics website. Rkevins82 13:56, 28 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

…and poof; just like that, they're all gone -- KelleyCook 18:55, 28 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

2003 USC

Someone deleted USC's 2003 AP national championship. While I agree that the BCS national champ should be listed first since the major conferences have agreed to the BCS system, the AP championship is widely recognized as legitimate even in the BCS era. My revision of the list is intended to reflect most widely recognized champions, including co-champions. USC's claim is better than many included for earlier years and I have restored it to the list.

Proposed "Thinned Out" List

Would like comments on whether following list is preferred to that currently posted:

Year	Champion	Source	Record	Bowl	Head coach
1869	Princeton	(NCF)	1-1-0
1870	Princeton	(NCF)	1-0
1871	No Champion
1872	Princeton	(NCF)	1-0
1873	Princeton	(NCF)	1-0
1874	Yale	(NCF)	3-0
1875	Harvard	(NCF)	4-0
1876	Yale	(NCF)	3-0
1877	Yale	(NCF)	3-0-1
1878	Princeton	(NCF)	6-0-0
1879	Princeton	(NCF)	4-0-1
1880	Princeton	(NCF)	4-0-1
1880	Yale	(NCF)	4-0-1
1881	Yale	(NCF)	5-0-1
1882	Yale	(NCF)	8-0-0
1883	Yale	(H)	8-0-0		Ray Tomkins (Captain)
1884	Yale	(H)	9-0-0		Eugene L. Richards (Captain)
1885	Princeton	(H)	9-0-0		Charles DeCamp (Captain)
1886	Yale	(H)	9-0-1		Robert N. Corwin (Captain)
1887	Yale	(H)	9-0-0		Harry W. Beecher (Captain)
1888	Yale	(H)	13-0-0		Walter Camp
1889	Princeton	(H)	10-0-0		Edgar Poe (Captain)
1890	Harvard	(H)	11-0-0		G.A. Stewart/G.C. Adams
1891	Yale	(H)	13-0-0		Walter Camp
1892	Yale	(H)	13-0-0		Walter Camp
1893	Princeton	(H)	11-0-0		Tom Trenchard (Captain)
1894	Yale	(H)	16-0-0		William C. Rhodes
1895	Pennsylvania	(H)	14-0-0		George Woodruff
1896	Princeton	(H)	10-0-1		Garrett Cochran
1897	Pennsylvania	(H)	15-0-0		George Woodruff
1898	Harvard	(H)	11-0-0		W. Cameron Forbes
1899	Harvard	(H)	10-0-1		Benjamin H. Dibblee
1900	Yale	(H)	12-0-0		Malcolm McBride
1901	Michigan	(H)	11-0-0	Won Rose	Fielding Yost
1902	Michigan	(H)	11-0-0		Fielding Yost
1903	Princeton	(H)	11-0-0		Art Hillebrand
1904	Pennsylvania	(H)	12-0-0		Carl Williams
1905	Chicago	(H)	11-0-0		Amos Alonzo Stagg
1906	Princeton	(H)	9-0-1		Bill Roper
1907	Yale	(H)	9-0-1		Bill Knox
1908	Pennsylvania	(H)	11-0-1		Sol Metzger
1909	Yale	(H)	10-0-0		Howard Jones
1910	Harvard	(H)	8-0-1		Percy Houghton
1911	Princeton	(H)	8-0-2		Bill Roper
1912	Harvard	(H)	9-0-0		Percy Houghton
1913	Harvard	(H)	9-0-0		Percy Houghton
1914	Army	(H)	9-0-0		Charley Daly
1915	Cornell	(H)	9-0-0		Al Sharpe
1916	Pittsburgh	(H)	8-0-0		Pop Warner
1917	Georgia Tech	(H)	9-0-0		John Heisman
1918	Pittsburgh	(H)	4-1-0		Pop Warner
1919	Harvard	(H)	9-0-1	Won Rose	Bob Fisher
1920	California	(H)	9-0-0	Won Rose	Andy Smith
1921	Cornell	(H)	8-0-0		Gil Dobie
1922	Cornell	(H)	8-0-0		Gil Dobie
1923	Illinois	(H)	8-0-0		Bob Zuppke
1924	Notre Dame	(H)	10-0-0	Won Rose	Knute Rockne
1925	Alabama	(H)	10-0-0	Won Rose	Wallace Wade
1926	Stanford	(H)	10-0-1	Tied Rose	Pop Warner
1926	Alabama	(H)	9-0-1	Tied Rose	Wallace Wade
1927	Illinois	(H)	7-0-1		Bob Zuppke
1928	Georgia Tech	(H)	10-0-0	Won Rose	Bill Alexander
1929	Notre Dame	(H)	9-0-0		Knute Rockne
1930	Notre Dame	(H)	10-0-0		Knute Rockne
1930	Alabama	(Other)	10-0-0	Won Rose	Wallace Wade
1931	USC	(H)	10-1-0	Won Rose	Howard Jones
1932	USC	(H)	10-0-0	Won Rose	Howard Jones
1933	Michigan	(H)	7-0-1		Harry Kipke
1934	Minnesota	(H)	8-0-0		Bernie Bierman
1934	Alabama	(Other)	10-0-0	Won Rose	Frank Thomas
1935	Minnesota	(UP)(H)	8-0-0		Bernie Bierman
1936	Minnesota	(AP)	7-1-0		Bernie Bierman
1937	Pittsburgh	(AP)	9-0-1		Jock Sutherland
1938	TCU	(AP)	11-0-0	Won Sugar	Dutch Meyer
1939	Texas A&M	(AP)	11-0-0	Won Sugar	Homer Norton
1940	Minnesota	(AP)	8-0-0		Bernie Bierman
1941	Minnesota	(AP)	8-0-0		Bernie Bierman
1942	Ohio State	(AP)	9-1-0		Paul Brown
1943	Notre Dame	(AP)	9-1-0		Frank Leahy
1944	Army	(AP)	9-0-0		Earl Blaik
1945	Army	(AP)	9-0-0		Earl Blaik
1946	Notre Dame	(AP)	8-0-1		Frank Leahy
1947	Notre Dame	(AP)	9-0-0		Frank Leahy
1948	Michigan	(AP)	9-0-0		Bennie Oosterbaan
1949	Notre Dame	(AP)	10-0-0		Frank Leahy
1950	Oklahoma	(AP)(UP)	10-1-0	Lost Sugar	Bud Wilkinson
1950	Tennessee	(NCF)	11-1-0	Won Cotton	Robert Neyland
1951	Tennessee	(AP)(UP)	10-1-0	Lost Sugar	Robert Neyland
	Michigan State	(H)	9-0-0		Biggie Munn
	Maryland	(NCF)	10-0-0	Won Sugar	Jim Tatum
1952	Michigan State	(AP)(UP)	9-0-0		Biggie Munn
1952	Georgia Tech	(INS)	12-0-0	Won Sugar	Bobby Dodd
1953	Maryland	(AP)(UP)	10-1-0	Lost Orange	Jim Tatum
1953	Notre Dame	(H)(NCF)	9-0-1		Frank Leahy
1954	Ohio State	(AP)	10-0-0	Won Rose	Woody Hayes
1954	UCLA	(UP)	9-0-0		Red Sanders
1955	Oklahoma	(AP)(UP)	11-0-0	Won Orange	Bud Wilkinson
1956	Oklahoma	(AP)(UP)	10-0-0		Bud Wilkinson
1957	Auburn	(AP)	10-0-0		Shug Jordan
1957	Ohio State	(UP)	9-1-0	Won Rose	Woody Hayes
1958	LSU	(AP)(UPI)	11-0-0	Won Sugar	Paul Dietzel
1959	Syracuse	(AP)(UPI)	11-0-0	Won Cotton	Ben Schwartzwalder
1960	Minnesota	(AP)(UPI)	8-2-0	Lost Rose	Murray Warmath
1960	Mississippi	(FWAA)	10-0-1	Won Sugar	John Vaught
1961	Alabama	(AP)(UPI)	11-0-0	Won Sugar	Paul "Bear" Bryant
1962	USC	(AP)(UPI)	11-0-0	Won Rose	John McKay
1963	Texas	(AP)(UPI)	11-0-0	Won Cotton	Darrell Royal
1964	Alabama	(AP)(UPI)	10-1-0	Lost Orange	Paul "Bear" Bryant
1964	Arkansas	(FWAA)	11-0-0	Won Cotton	Frank Broyles
1965	Alabama	(AP)	9-1-1	Won Orange	Paul "Bear" Bryant
1965	Michigan State	(UPI)	10-1-0	Lost Rose	Duffy Daugherty
1966	Notre Dame	(AP)(UPI)	9-0-1		Ara Parseghian
1967	USC	(AP)(UPI)	10-1-0	Won Rose	John McKay
1968	Ohio State	(AP)(UPI)	10-0-0	Won Rose	Woody Hayes
1969	Texas	(AP)(UPI)	11-0-0	Won Cotton	Darrell Royal
1970	Nebraska	(AP)	11-0-1	Won Orange	Bob Devaney
1970	Texas	(UPI)	10-1-0	Lost Cotton	Darrell Royal
1971	Nebraska	(AP)(UPI)	13-0-0	Won Orange	Bob Devaney
1972	USC	(AP)(UPI)	12-0-0	Won Rose	John McKay
1973	Notre Dame	(AP)	11-0-0	Won Sugar	Ara Parseghian
1973	Alabama	(UPI)	11-1-0	Lost Sugar	Paul "Bear" Bryant
1974	Oklahoma	(AP)	11-0-0		Barry Switzer
1974	USC	(UPI)	10-1-1	Won Rose	John McKay
1975	Oklahoma	(AP)(UPI)	11-1-0	Won Orange	Barry Switzer
1976	Pittsburgh	(AP)(UPI)	12-0-0	Won Sugar	Johnny Majors
1977	Notre Dame	(AP)(UPI)	11-1-0	Won Cotton	Dan Devine
1978	Alabama	(AP)	11-1-0	Won Sugar	Paul "Bear" Bryant
1978	USC	(UPI)	12-1-0	Won Rose	John Robinson
1979	Alabama	(AP)(UPI)	12-0-0	Won Sugar	Paul "Bear" Bryant
1980	Georgia	(AP)(UPI)	12-0-0	Won Sugar	Vince Dooley
1981	Clemson	(AP)(UPI)	12-0-0	Won Orange	Danny Ford
1982	Penn State	(AP)(UPI)	11-1-0	Won Sugar	Joe Paterno
1983	Miami (FL)	(AP)(UPI)	11-1-0	Won Orange	Howard Schnellenberger
1984	BYU	(AP)(UPI)	13-0-0	Won Holiday	Lavell Edwards
1985	Oklahoma	(AP)(UPI)	11-1-0	Won Orange	Barry Switzer
1986	Penn State	(AP)(UPI)	12-0-0	Won Fiesta	Joe Paterno
1987	Miami (FL)	(AP)(UPI)	12-0-0	Won Orange	Jimmy Johnson
1988	Notre Dame	(AP)(UPI)	12-0-0	Won Fiesta	Lou Holtz
1989	Miami (FL)	(AP)(UPI)	11-1-0	Won Sugar	Dennis Erickson
1990	Colorado	(AP)	11-1-1	Won Orange	Bill McCartney
1990	Georgia Tech	(UPI)	11-0-1	Won Citrus	Bobby Ross
1991	Miami (FL)	(AP)	12-0-0	Won Orange	Dennis Erickson
1991	Washington	(CNN)	12-0-0	Won Rose	Don James
1992	Alabama	(AP)(CNN)	13-0-0	Won Sugar	Gene Stallings
1993	Florida State	(AP)(CNN)	12-1-0	Won Orange	Bobby Bowden
1994	Nebraska	(AP)(CNN)	13-0-0	Won Orange	Tom Osborne
1995	Nebraska	(AP)(CNN)	12-0-0	Won Fiesta	Tom Osborne
1996	Florida	(AP)(CNN)	12-1	Won Sugar	Steve Spurrier
1997	Michigan	(AP)	12-0	Won Rose	Lloyd Carr
1997	Nebraska	(ESPN)	13-0	Won Orange	Tom Osborne
1998	Tennessee	(BCS)(AP)	13-0	Won Fiesta	Phillip Fulmer
1999	Florida State	(BCS)(AP)	12-0	Won Sugar	Bobby Bowden
2000	Oklahoma	(BCS)(AP)	13-0	Won Orange	Bob Stoops
2001	Miami (FL)	(BCS)(AP)	12-0	Won Rose	Larry Coker
2002	Ohio State	(BCS)(AP)	14-0	Won Fiesta	Jim Tressel
2003	LSU	(BCS)	13-1	Won Sugar	Nick Saban
2003	USC	(AP)	12-1	Won Rose	Pete Carroll
2004	USC	(BCS)(AP)	13-0	Won Orange	Pete Carroll
2005	Texas	(BCS)(AP)	13-0	Won Rose \| Mack Brown [Utah (USA Today)]

above unsigned suggestion by Drewinmaine

Personally, I prefer the current version of the table, which features more information. I think more info is usually better so long as it is relevant and remains readable, which I think the current version does nicely. I did restore USC in 2003, as was suggested above. Also, if anyone does decide to change the table, please note that I changed University of Texas to Texas Longhorn Athletics as the second article is more directly relevant. Johntex\^talk 18:14, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Keep the Inclusive Table

I like the more inclusive table as well. However, if the thinned-out version is used, I would keep the Dickenson System champions as they have become more accepted and represent the first attempt to use statistics to determine a champion. It was also the pre-eminent selector of its time.

It has? I give it no more value than I give any of those other random NC selectors. I propose, as mentioned below, we use the same criteria as the College Football Data Warehouse.--NMajdan•talk 18:27, 1 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Please also note that any controversy regarding the split of 2003 should really be non-existent as the BCS itself recognizes the split on its website under the discussion of the 2003 season.

I think the thinned out version should be used. The Dickenson system is ridiculous to use when every other measure gives the championship to another team. It's crazy to use a system that awards a "statistical" championship to a team with a loss, especially if that loss was in their bowl game. 67.64.114.187 20:58, 8 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Counting retroactively awarded titles in the team totals

As a a retroactive title wasn't recognized in the year that the team played, I think it is disingenuous to use retroactive rankings, such as National Championship Foundation, College Football Researchers Association, and Helms (pre 1941) as a an "official source" for National Championships in the total numbers awarded. If no-one comes up with a good argument why Wikipedia should use retroactively generated lists, then I will adjust the Team-by-team totals in a few days. -- KelleyCook 13:51, 1 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I believe those were originally used because they are used on the College Football Data Warehouse website. It is difficult to determine which polls to use in the Pre-AP era.--NMajdan•talk 13:55, 1 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Honestly, I think we should just use the same criteria that website uses.

1869-1882  National Championship Foundation
1883-1935  Helms Athletic Foundation
1919-1935  College Football Researches Association
1936-Current  Associated Press Poll
1950-Current  Coaches Poll

I have a tough time justifying the use of the Dickinson System mainly because it award ND the title in 1938 and it was the only poll to do so.--NMajdan•talk 14:20, 1 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Nmajdan. However, we should note that there are no 'official' national champions until the BCS.Rkevins82 17:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Dickinson used math much in the same way the present BCS computers do. I must once again note that it was the pre-eminent selector of its time. I certainly believe that it was far superior to most if not all of the other systems of its day and was so until the AP began. Even then it was important and remained so until it ended in 1940. Please also note that while the BCS has a very strong grip on the National Championship it is by no means "official." There is still no "official" NCAA Div. 1 college football champion.

You guys are giving FAR, FAR too much credit to the criteria that College Football Data Warehouse uses. The only relevant ones post 1935 are Associated Press and the Coaches poll. The only relevant ones prior to that are ones that actually had selectors. Anyone that was a recent retroactive poll (read computer geek with access to Stassen's database) deserves zero credit by Wikipedia. And the BCS clearly is not a poll nor even the determiner of an official champion, but only a bowl matchmaker. The Coaches poll, of course, is obligated to make their first pick the winner of the BCS #1 v #2 game, but that doesn't mean that their is a BCS final pick.

The College Football Data Warehouse told me in an e-mail that he would look at the Dickinson System a second time. While I like this web-site, it is not all-inclusive and is also the opinion of that particular individual. Almanacs and many reference books now utilize Dickinson and the fact that their selections might differ is not relevant. It was major AT THE TIME. But using the Data Warehouse is alright as long as you can augment it. Please also note that they give 1964 Arkansas a championship although they were not slected by major selectors (I agree with that as well and I also agree with 1953 Notre Dame being granted a championship.)— Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.119.25.226 (talk • contribs)

Consensus titles

Notre Dame is listed as a school that does not count all potential titles, but by consensus counts has 11 championships. I've removed the following (with reasons:

1946 Helms (contemporaneous) split between ND and Army, CFRA also chose Army
1947 Helms split between ND and Michigan, AP picked ND, NCF and CFRA picked Michigan
1973 UPI picked Alabama, AP/FWAA picked ND

Rkevins82 19:16, 21 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Link to Vince Young-Mack Brown Video on YouTube

I have excised the link to a video on YouTube that someone had added in the External Links section. I think it was supposed to be funny, as it suggested a homoerotic relationship between Texas quarterback Vince Young and Texas coach Mack Brown, criticized rainbow iconography, and liberally used the word "homo" in a derogatory way. But yeah it had nothing to do with Division I-A national championships. At all. So it's gone. And yes, I do live in Texas. And no, I am not gay. And from what I understand, neither are Mack Brown and Vince Young.

For reference, here is the link: The Vince Young Mack Brown Story

Kind regards J. Charles Taylor 11:59, 22 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for taking care of this. I do some editing in locations where I can't access some media (like many others), so I can't vet videos. Best. Rkevins82 15:28, 22 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

In 1919...

On the Texas A&M Wikipedia site, it claims the Aggies won the national championship in 1919 and in 1939. Although it does mention the championship in 1939, this page does not mention the championship supposedly won in 1919. Anyone have a source supporting/declining this?

The only sources I could find for a 1919 championship for A&M were James Howell, a computer ranking that I believe was conducted in 2000, and a 3 way tie in the National Championship Foundation retroactive research results. The Aggies were undefeated and untied that year and it is quite possible that the press in Texas and elsewhere declared them national champions at the time. During this period, though, the NCF declared multiple champions on several occasions, making the inclusion of its champions on this list less useful than some other sources, as one would prefer a source that actually chooses a single national champion. user:Drewinmaine 11.26.06

Last 25 years?

Why have this section? People can much more easily look at the list to see who has won recently, than since 1901. I hope it is not to maximize Miami's visibility. Rkevins82 18:00, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Mythical National Championship merger?

The 90% of that article that contains interesting information is redundant with this article. The other 10% appears to be a very contrived attempt to come up with other MNCs to link to the term. It seems to me that since the CFB material is rendundant (think don't repeat yourself) that we'd do well to offload the other to one sentence each in high school football and college basketball, and perhaps create a section here called something like "'Mythical' national championship?". If the juxtaposition with other sports is needed, it's probably most appropriate here. I just don't think mythical national championships per se (as opposed to the mythical D-I-A football championship, which is where we've all heard the term) are a sufficiently encyclopedic topic to need a separate article. Cheers - PhilipR 02:35, 6 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I am (mildly) against the merge proposal. I do appreciate that a lack of redundancy can be a good thing (especially in computer programming per the link you cited). However, redundancy can also be a good thing. It is an essential component of virtually all human knowledge.

Also, similar information can be presented in differing ways, sometimes with good reason. For instance, until I just now re-read the article on Mythical national championship, I didn't realize any national publications tried to crown a national high school champion. I also did not know that college basketball ever lacked a playoff. In other words, having those things brought into one article was helpful to me, as it may be to other readers in the future.

Finally, this is a substantial article. I think having the info in mythical national championship makes the info easier to find. Johntex\^talk 03:04, 6 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I am against a merger. The article has developed into a pretty good article and will only get better. I plan on improving it with sources and examples, especially for the college basketball and high school football sections. I cannot tell you how many times (trust me, it's a lot) I've seen people on the internet see the letters MNC in message board posts and have them ask, "What's MNC?" This article was created for that reason. And like Johntex said, many people don't even realize that there are MNC's in sports other than college football. This deserves its own article. Seancp 13:42, 6 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"This article was created for that reason." - WP:WINAD. Whatever suitable place is agreed upon for this material, we can certainly use disambiguation and redirects to make sure MNC and Mythical [Nn]ational [Cc]hampionship lead there. But you both raise some valid points that I'm still processing. - PhilipR 14:56, 6 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I am against a merger for the same reasons as above. Mythical national championship relates to any national championship declaration that doesn't have a national playoff to determine thus, thus adding a level of subjectiveness. While this has been mostly applied to college football, there are other examples that are just as valid. Merging them implies that Div. I-A is the mythical national championship, which, as apparent in the article, isn't the same thing. Besides, if this were to merge, I think it would be much better merged with the Bowl Championship Series page or the Bowl Game page rather than this one. Hawk405359 21:59, 6 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Modified proposal

Executive summary: See "The new proposal" subheading. Sorry I'm so long-winded.

OK, as I'm processing the emerging consensus, here's my summary of what seems to be more-or-less the consensus or at least not-yet disputed:

The MNC article has some information of value
The juxtaposition of cfb to other sports, historical or present, without organized championships is interesting and encyclopedic
This existing article is already a good size, and moving material into it may not be a good idea.

Here are a couple of other points that you've made me think about:

While a certain amount of redundancy is tolerable in a prose encyclopedia, WP has a pretty standardized way to avoid extreme redundancy by setting up subordinate articles to deal with topics in depth. E.g. United States, History of the United States, History of the United States (1789–1849), etc. The reasons that make DRY applicable to programming also make it applicable to documentation. For example, I posted a quote from Bernie Machen on this article, but in principle I should also post it at MNC to keep it current, and any other article referencing the present playoff controversy. I would hope that each new piece of info would have an unambiguous home where it belongs, though I recognize there are exceptions (such as linking the same article at Bernie Machen, etc.).
I'm still not convinced that Mythical national championship isn't in essentially intended to be a dictionary entry. Indeed, Seancp's reply actually confirms this original impression. I've recently been looking into an example where WP:WINAD was absolutely flouted. A Motorway and a Freeway are virtually the exact same thing, but because they've grown up on a term-by-term basis instead of a concept-by-concept basis, each article is now jealously guarded by its editors in its US-centric or UK-centric form. Wikipedia articles are about concepts, not specific terms.

Now, that said, there's obviously material there that people think is beneficial to maintain separate from NCAA Division I-A national football championship, and I've come to agree. So how about this?

The new proposal

Migrate material from both this article and Mythical national championship concerning the college football controversy to something like, NCAA Division I-A national football championship debate (although I'd like to make the title shorter). There's precedent for this: Free trade and Free trade debate, for example.
Make what remains of Mythical national championship into a list. Wikipedia has all kinds of useful lists and I think a list of sports with mythical championships (or list of sports without established championships or pseudo-championships) is certainly valid. I don't actually think it should just be "national championships" though, because that's fairly arbitrary. (Why wouldn't something transnational like a poll of European soccer clubs predating the European Champions' Cup not be equally relevant to this list?)
Use the {{main}} template and disambiguation as appropriate:

Mythical national championship should probably direct to the appropriate college football articles. Someone looking under the term "mythical national championship" almost certainly either doesn't know what the term means or wants to read about the football debate.
Of course the debate article should explain the term MNC and probably have a templated dab at the top like .
The debate article should cross-reference the list of other sports in addition to the dab
The present article NCAA Division I-A national football championship should give a brief intro to the debate but point to the debate article, cf. Free trade.

This would meet my needs because new material concerning the cfb debate would now have a single unambiguous home. At the same time, if we discover that say some prefecture in Japan has a Sumo "championship" that's as disorganized as I-A cfb, then that fact/juxtaposition has an unambiguous home too (the list).

As a fallback compromise, if Mythical National Championship is held to be the proper title for the article about the cfb debate then I would suggest moving the relevant material from here to avoid redundancy. But now we have an article both about the MNC and about various mncs. The confusion over capitalization, in my book, exposes a greater confusion about the purpose of that article. (The status quo has the title capitalized, but is an article ostensibly about various championships, not one particular one, which seems thoroughly inconsistent.)

I welcome your thoughts. - PhilipR 00:37, 7 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I appreciate all the effort you're putting in here, but I think what you suggested just makes everything way too complicated. I suggest we allow the article to develop as it has been. Like I mentioned before, I am going to get to work on sourcing it and adding info about high school football and college basketball. I'll also look for other sports that have mythical national championships. Separating the info, merging some here, moving some there, etc, etc just really makes things messy. They MNC article is a pretty decent article. If it is redundant it is redundant in a way that is useful. For instance, let's say a non-football fan overhears a reporter on ESPN mention "Mythical National Championship" and wonders what he means by that then he can just go to the wikipedia article and learn a lot about it. The information on the DI-A national football championship page would be harder to find for a non-football fan, and even if they did find it, they'd have to read through a lot of other information before finding the answer to their question. As far as the capitalization goes, I really don't see how that implies that there is only one MNC, especially when one reads the article. However, if Wikipedia has a capitalization policy that states it should be lowercased then we should make it lower case. To summarize, I would like the see the MNC page left as it is and allowed to develop. It is a decent page right now and will continue to get better. Seancp 13:51, 7 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Seancp. Let MNC develop. I think there is plenty of room for this article and MNC and BCS articles (where most of the debate really occurs). --MECU≈talk 13:22, 14 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Football Bowl Subdivision: verbatim copy from NCAA Division I-AA national football championship

It should be noted that, except for the header, this paragraph is reproduced in its entirety at NCAA Division I-AA national football championship. In other contexts I would suggest moving this to one canonical place and linking it from there, but redundancy and branching revisions are very much in vogue in Wikipedia so I really don't see any need to bother. Just pointing it out for future editors who change that graf. - PhilipR 19:54, 17 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Removal of Combined AP/Coaches section

It was a disingenuous statistic of summing together the AP and Coaches titles; so I removed the section[1]. It is incorrect to say that Texas won two titles last year. If someone wants to recalculate the section with total number of titles awarded by either AP or Coaches (set theory applies here) then it would be fine. For another reason why the revert was warranted, awarding Oklahoma the top spot with 13 titles goes against the entire rest grain of the article which has them with a total of 9 throughout their history. -- KelleyCook 21:30, 26 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Added back. It's a legitimate statistic, found in most media guides ([2], [3] (last page)), that helps reflect and account for undisputed wire national championships. There was no reason for you to blank the section just because you don't like wherever your particular team ranks. Please refrain from blanking in the future.-PassionoftheDamon 11:23, 27 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The complaint has nothing to do with where a particular team ranks. It does have everything to do with being misleading. It essentially halves the championship value between 1936–1949 when the coaches did not yet vote. Modify the table to be an OR instead of a SUM and it would be fine. -- KelleyCook 21:14, 29 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

That's a valid objection about the pre-Coaches poll years. I'll split the table to make separate tables for each poll.-PassionoftheDamon 21:26, 29 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that it should be removed. It's quite misleading. I'll refrain from removing it for now though, in case some others have something to say, but if no one else says anything, I will remove it. Dlong 21:10, 28 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I find it both informative and unobjectionable. As PassionoftheDamon stated, it does a good job of reflecting the weight of each national championship a school has won; i.e. split championships count for less. It should be kept.-JDD18 21:22, 29 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Separate tables for AP and Coaches championships are up.-PassionoftheDamon 22:21, 29 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

NCAA Official Page Below

This is the “official” NCAA page. I don’t believe that the Wikipedia page (section with championship by year) is complete or accurately reflects the NCAA summary of prior selectors’ selections of national champion for football.

http://www.ncaa.org/champadmin/ia_football_past_champs.html Past Division I-A Football National Champions The NCAA does not conduct a national championship in Division I-A football and is not involved in the selection process. Since 1998, the Bowl Championship Series (BCS) has conducted a contest between it's two top-ranked teams to determine a national champion. More information on the BCS is available at their Web site. A number of polling organizations also provide a final ranking of Division I-A football teams at the end of each season. Below is a year-by-year history of Division I-A football national champions as determined by the BCS championship game and these polling organizations. More information on national poll rankings is available in the Division I-A section of the NCAA Divison I-A/I-AA Football Records Book.

2005 Texas: BCS

2004 Southern California : AP, BCS, Berryman, Billingsley, Colley, DeVold, Dunkel, Eck, FACT, FB News, FW, Massey, Matthews, NFF, NY Times, Sagarin, Seattle Times, Sporting News, USA/ESPN, Wolfe

2003 LSU: BCS, Billingsley, Colley, DeVold, Dunkel, FACT, Massey, NFF, Sagarin, Seattle Times, USA/ESPN Oklahoma: Berryman Southern California: AP, Eck, Matthews, NY Times

2002 Ohio State: AP, BCS, Berryman, Billingsley, Colley, DeVold, Eck, FACT, FB News, FW, Massey, NFF, NY Times, Seattle Times, Sporting News, USA/ESPN, Wolfe Southern California: Dunkel, Matthews, Sagarin

2001 Miami (Fla.): AP, BCS, Berryman, Billingsley, Colley, DeVold, Dunkel, Eck, FACT, FB News, FW, Massey, Matthews, National Championship Foundation, NFF, NY Times, Sagarin, Seattle Times, Sporting News, USA/ESPN, Wolfe

2000 Oklahoma: AP, BCS, Berryman, Billingsley, DeVold, Dunkel, Eck, FACT, FB News, FW, Massey, Matthews, National Championship Foundation, NFF, NY Times, Sagarin, Seattle Times, Sporting News, USA/ESPN

1999 Florida St.: AP, BCS, Berryman, Billingsley, DeVold, Dunkel, Eck, FACT, FB News, FW, Massey, Matthews, National Championship Foundation, NFF, NY Times, Sagarin, Seattle Times, Sporting News, USA/ESPN

1998 Ohio St.: Sagarin Tennessee: Alderson, AP, BCS, Berryman, Billingsley, DeVold, Dunkel, Eck, FACT, FB News, FW, Matthews, National Championship Foundation, NFF, NY Times, Seattle Times, Sporting News, USA/ESPN

1997 Michigan: AP, FB News, FW, National Championship Foundation*, NFF, Sporting News Nebraska: Alderson, Berryman, Billingsley, DeVold, Dunkel, Eck, FACT, Matthews, National Championship Foundation*, NY Times, Sagarin, Seattle Times, USA/ESPN

1996 Florida: AP, Berryman, Billingsley, Eck, FACT, FB News, FW, NFF, Sagarin, Sporting News, USA/CNN, NY Times, National Championship Foundation, Dunkel, Matthews, DeVold Florida St.: Alderson

1995 Nebraska : Alderson, AP, Berryman, Billingsley, DeVold, Dunkel, Eck, FACT, FB News, FW, Matthews, National Championship Foundation, NFF, NY Times, Sagarin, Sporting News, UPI, USA/CNN

1994 Florida St.: Dunkel Nebraska: Alderson, AP, Berryman, Billingsley, FACT*, FB News, FW, National Championship Foundation*, Sporting News, UPI, USA/CNN, USA/NFF Penn St.: DeVold, Eck, FACT*, Matthews, National Championship Foundation*, NY Times, Sagarin

1993 Auburn: National Championship Foundation* Florida St.: AP, Berryman, Billingsley, DeVold, Dunkel, Eck, FACT, FB News, FW, National Championship Foundation*, NY Times, Sagarin, Sporting News, UPI, USA/CNN ,USA/NFF Nebraska : National Championship Foundation* Notre Dame: Matthews, National Championship Foundation*

1992 Alabama: AP, Berryman, Billingsley, DeVold, Dunkel, Eck, FACT, FB News, Football Research, FW, Matthews, National Championship Foundation, NY Times, Sporting News, UPI/NFF, USA/CNN Florida St.: Sagarin

1991 Miami (Fla.): AP, Eck, Football Research, National Championship Foundation*, NY Times, Sporting News Washington: Berryman, Billingsley, DeVold, Dunkel, FACT, FB News, FW, Matthews, National Championship Foundation*, Sagarin, UPI/NFF, USA/CNN

1990 Colorado: AP, Berryman, DeVold, FACT*, FB News, Football Research, FW, Matthews, National Championship Foundation*, NFF, Sporting News, USA/CNN Georgia Tech: Dunkel, FACT*, National Championship Foundation*, UPI Miami (Fla.): Billingsley, Eck, FACT*, NY Times, Sagarin Washington: FACT*

1989 Miami (Fla.): AP, Billingsley, DeVold, Dunkel, FACT*, FB News, Football Research, FW, Matthews, National Championship Foundation, NFF, NY Times, Sporting News, UPI, USA/CNN Notre Dame: Berryman, Eck, FACT*, Sagarin

1988 Miami (Fla.): Berryman Notre Dame: AP, Billingsley, DeVold, Dunkel, Eck, FACT, FB News, Football Research, FW, Matthews, National Championship Foundation, NFF, NY Times, Sagarin, Sporting News, UPI, USA/CNN

1987 Florida St.: Berryman, Sagarin Miami (Fla.): AP, Billingsley, DeVold, Dunkel, Eck, FACT, FB News, Football Research, FW, Matthews, National Championship Foundation, NFF, NY Times, Sporting News, UPI, USA/CNN

1986 Miami (Fla.): FACT* Oklahoma: Berryman, DeVold, Dunkel, Football Research, NY Times, Sagarin Penn St.: AP, Billingsley, FACT*, FB News, FW, Matthews, National Championship Foundation, NFF, Sporting News, UPI, USA/CNN

1985 Michigan: Matthews, Sagarin Oklahoma: AP, Berryman, Billingsley, DeVold, Dunkel, FACT, FB News, Football Research, FW, National Championship Foundation, NFF, NY Times, Sporting News, UPI, USA/CNN

1984 Brigham Young: AP, Football Research, FW, National Championship Foundation*, NFF, Poling, UPI, USA/CNN Florida: Billingsley, DeVold, Dunkel, FACT, Matthews, NY Times, Sagarin, Sporting News Nebraska: Litkenhous Washington: Berryman, FB News, National Championship Foundation*

1983 Auburn : FACT*, Football Research, NY Times Miami (Fla.): AP, Billingsley, Dunkel, FB News, FW, National Championship Foundation, NFF, Sporting News, UPI, USA/CNN Nebraska: Berryman, DeVold, FACT*, Litkenhous, Matthews, Poling, Sagarin

1982 Nebraska: Berryman Penn St.: AP, Billingsley, DeVold, Dunkel, FACT, FB News, Football Research, FW, Helms*, Litkenhous, Matthews, National Championship Foundation, NFF, NY Times, Poling, Sagarin, Sporting News, UPI, USA/CNN Southern Methodist: Helms*

1981 Clemson: AP, Berryman, Billingsley, DeVold, FACT, FB News, Football Research, FW, Helms, Litkenhous, Matthews, National Championship Foundation*, NFF, NY Times, Poling, Sagarin, Sporting News, UPI Nebraska: National Championship Foundation* Penn St.: Dunkel Pittsburgh: National Championship Foundation* Texas: National Championship Foundation* Southern Methodist: National Championship Foundation*

1980 Florida St.: FACT* Georgia: AP, Berryman, FACT*, FB News, FW, Helms, National Championship Foundation, NFF, Poling, Sporting News, UPI Nebraska: FACT*, Sagarin Oklahoma: Billingsley, Dunkel, Matthews Pittsburgh: DeVold, FACT*, Football Research, NY Times

1979 Alabama: AP, Berryman, Billingsley, DeVold, Dunkel, FACT, FB News, FW, Helms, Matthews, National Championship Foundation, NFF, NY Times, Poling, Sagarin, Sporting News, UPI Southern California: Football Research

1978 Alabama: AP, FACT*, Football Research, FW, Helms*, National Championship Foundation*, NFF Oklahoma: Billingsley, DeVold, Dunkel, FACT*, Helms*, Litkenhous, Matthews, Poling, Sagarin Southern California: Berryman, FACT*, FB News, Helms*, National Championship Foundation*, Sporting News, UPI

1977 Alabama: Football Research* Arkansas: FACT* Notre Dame: AP, Billingsley, DeVold, Dunkel, FACT*, FB News, Football Research*, FW, Helms, Matthews, National Championship Foundation, NFF, Poling, Sagarin, Sporting News, UPI Texas: Berryman, FACT*

1976 Pittsburgh: AP, FACT, FB News, FW, Helms, National Championship Foundation, NFF, Poling, Sagarin, Sporting News, UPI Southern California: Berryman, Billingsley, DeVold, Dunkel, Football Research, Matthews

1975 Alabama: Matthews* Arizona St.: National Championship Foundation*, Sporting News Ohio St.: Berryman, FACT*, Helms*, Matthews*, Poling Oklahoma: AP, Billingsley, DeVold, Dunkel, FACT*, FB News, Football Research, FW, Helms*, National Championship Foundation*, NFF, Sagarin, UPI

1974 Ohio St.: Matthews Oklahoma: AP, Berryman, Billingsley, DeVold, Dunkel, FACT, FB News, Football Research, Helms*, Litkenhous, National Championship Foundation*, Poling, Sagarin Southern California: FW, Helms*, National Championship Foundation*, NFF, UPI

1973 Alabama: Berryman, UPI Michigan: National Championship Foundation*, Poling* Notre Dame: AP, FB News, FW, Helms, National Championship Foundation*, NFF Ohio St.: FACT, National Championship Foundation*, Poling* Oklahoma: Billingsley, DeVold, Dunkel, Football Research, Sagarin

1972 Southern California: AP, Berryman, Billingsley, DeVold, Dunkel, FACT, FB News, Football Research, FW, Helms, Litkenhous, Matthews, National Championship Foundation, NFF, Poling, Sagarin, UPI

1971 Nebraska: AP, Berryman, Billingsley, DeVold, Dunkel, FACT, FB News, Football Research, FW, Helms, Litken-hous, Matthews, National Championship Foundation, NFF, Poling, Sagarin, UPI

1970 Arizona St.: Poling Nebraska: AP, Billingsley, DeVold, Dunkel, FACT*, FB News, Football Research, FW, Helms, National Championship Foundation Notre Dame: FACT*, Matthews Ohio St.: NFF* Texas: Berryman, FACT*, Litkenhous, NFF*, Sagarin, UPI

1969 Ohio St.: Matthews Penn St.: FACT* Texas: AP, Berryman, Billingsley, DeVold, Dunkel, FACT*, FB News, Football Research, FW, Helms, Litkenhous, National Championship Foundation, NFF, Poling, Sagarin, UPI

1968 Georgia: Litkenhous Ohio St.: AP, Berryman, Billingsley, Dunkel, FACT, FB News, Football Research, FW, Helms, National Championship Foundation, NFF, Poling, UPI Texas: DeVold, Matthews, Sagarin

1967 Notre Dame: Dunkel Oklahoma: Poling Southern California: AP, Berryman, Billingsley, DeVold, FB News, Football Research, FW, Helms, Matthews, National Championship Foundation, NFF, Sagarin, UPI Tennessee: Litkenhous

1966 Alabama: Berryman Michigan St.: Football Research, Helms*, NFF*, Poling* Notre Dame: AP, Billingsley, DeVold, Dunkel, FB N e w s , FW, Helms*, Litkenhous, Matthews, National Championship Foundation, NFF*, Poling*, Sagarin, UPI

1965 Alabama: AP, Billingsley, Football Research, FW*, National Championship Foundation Michigan St.: Berryman, DeVold, Dunkel, FB News, FW*, Helms, Litkenhous, NFF, Poling, Sagarin, UPI

1964 Alabama: AP, Berryman, Litkenhous, UPI Arkansas: Billingsley, Football Research, FW, Helms, National Championship Foundation, Poling Michigan: Dunkel Notre Dame: DeVold, FB News, NFF, Sagarin

1963 Texas: AP, Berryman, Billingsley, DeVold, Dunkel, FB News, Football Research, FW, Helms, Litkenhous, National Championship Foundation, NFF, Poling, Sagarin, UPI, Williamson

1962 Alabama: Billingsley LSU: Berryman* Southern California: AP, Berryman*, DeVold, Dunkel, FB News, Football Research, FW, Helms, National Championship Foundation, NFF, Poling, Sagarin, UPI, Williamson Mississippi: Litkenhous

1961 Alabama: AP, Berryman, Billingsley, DeVold, Dunkel, FB News, Football Research, Helms, Litkenhous, National Championship Foundation, NFF, Sagarin, UPI, Williamson Ohio St.: FW, Poling

1960 Iowa: Berryman, Boand, Litkenhous, Sagarin Minnesota: AP, FB News, NFF, UPI Mississippi: Billingsley, DeVold, Dunkel, Football Research, FW, National Championship Foundation, Williamson Missouri: Poling Washington: Helms

1959 Mississippi: Berryman, Billingsley, Dunkel, Sagarin Syracuse: AP, Boand, DeVold, FB News, Football Research, FW, Helms, Litkenhous, National Championship Foundation, NFF, Poling, UPI, Williamson

1958 Iowa: FW LSU: AP, Berryman, Billingsley, Boand, DeVold, Dunkel, FB News, Football Research, Helms, Litkenhous, National Championship Foundation, Poling, Sagarin, UPI, Williamson

1957 Auburn: AP, Football Research, Helms, National Championship Foundation, Poling, Williamson Michigan St.: Billingsley, Dunkel, Sagarin Ohio St.: Boand, DeVold, FW, INS, Litkenhous, UPI Oklahoma: Berryman

1956 Georgia Tech: Berryman Iowa: Football Research Oklahoma: AP, Billingsley, Boand, DeVold, Dunkel, FW, Helms, INS, Litkenhous, National Championship Foundation, Sagarin, UPI, Williamson Tennessee: Sagarin

1955 Michigan St.: Boand Oklahoma: AP, Berryman, Billingsley, DeVold, Dunkel, Football Research, FW, Helms, INS, Litkenhous, National Championship Foundation, Poling, Sagarin, UPI, Williamson

1954 Ohio St.: AP, Berryman, Boand, DeVold, Football Research*, Helms*, INS, National Championship Foundation*, Poling, Sagarin, Williamson UCLA: Billingsley, Dunkel, Football Research*, FW, Helms*, Litkenhous, National Championship Foundation*, UPI

1953 Maryland: AP, INS, UPI Notre Dame: Billingsley, Boand, DeVold, Dunkel, Helms, Litkenhous, National Championship Foundation, Poling, Sagarin, Williamson Oklahoma: Berryman, Football Research

1952 Georgia Tech: Berryman, INS, Poling Michigan St.: AP, Billingsley, Boand, DeVold, Dunkel, Football Research, Helms, Litkenhous, National Championship Foundation, Sagarin, UPI, Williamson

1951 Georgia Tech: Berryman, Boand* Illinois: Boand* Maryland: DeVold, Dunkel, Football Research, National Championship Foundation, Sagarin Michigan St.: Billingsley, Helms, Poling Tennessee: AP, Litkenhous, UPI, Williamson

1950 Kentucky: Sagarin Oklahoma: AP, Berryman, Helms, Litkenhous, UPI, Williamson Princeton: Boand, Poling Tennessee: Billingsley, DeVold, Dunkel, Football Research, National Championship Foundation

1949 Notre Dame: AP, Berryman, Billingsley, Boand, DeVold, Dunkel, Helms, Houlgate, Litkenhous, National Championship Foundation, Poling, Sagarin, Williamson Oklahoma: Football Research

1948 Michigan: AP, Berryman, Billingsley, Boand, DeVold, Dunkel, Football Research, Helms, Houlgate, Litkenhous, National Championship Foundation, Poling, Sagarin, Williamson

1947 Michigan: Berryman, Billingsley, Boand, DeVold, Dunkel, Football Research, Helms*, Houlgate, Litkenhous, National Championship Foundation, Poling, Sagarin Notre Dame: AP, Helms*, Williamson

1946 Army: Boand*, Football Research, Helms*, Houlgate, Poling* Georgia: Williamson Notre Dame: AP, Berryman, Billingsley, Boand*, DeVold, Dunkel, Helms*, Litkenhous, National Championship Foundation, Poling*, Sagarin

1945 Alabama: National Championship Foundation* Army: AP, Berryman, Billingsley, Boand, DeVold, Dunkel, Football Research, Helms, Houlgate, Litkenhous, National Championship Foundation*, Poling, Sagarin, Williamson

1944 Army: AP, Berryman, Billingsley, Boand, DeVold, Dunkel, Football Research, Helms, Houlgate, Litkenhous, National Championship Foundation*, Poling, Sagarin, Williamson Ohio St.: National Championship Foundation*

1943 Notre Dame: AP, Berryman, Billingsley, Boand, DeVold, Dunkel, Football Research, Helms, Houlgate, Litkenhous, National Championship Foundation, Poling, Williamson

1942 Georgia: Berryman, DeVold, Houlgate, Litkenhous, Poling, Williamson Ohio St.: AP, Billingsley, Boand, Dunkel, Football Research, National Championship Foundation Wisconsin: Helms

1941 Alabama: Houlgate Minnesota: AP, Billingsley, Boand, DeVold, Dunkel, Football Research, Helms, Litkenhous, National Championship Foundation, Poling Texas: Berryman, Williamson

1940 Minnesota: AP, Berryman, Billingsley, Boand, DeVold, Dickinson, Football Research, Houlgate, Litkenhous, National Championship Foundation Stanford: Helms, Poling Tennessee: Dunkel, Williamson

1939 Cornell:: Billingsley, Litkenhous Southern California: Dickinson Texas A& M: AP, Boand, DeVold, Dunkel, Football Research, Helms, Houlgate, National Championship Foundation, Poling, Williamson

1938 Notre Dame: Dickinson Tennessee: Billingsley, Boand, Dunkel, Football Research, Houlgate, Litkenhous, Poling, Sagarin TCU: AP, Helms, National Championship Foundation, Williamson

1937 California: Dunkel, Helms Pittsburgh: AP, Billingsley, Boand, Dickinson, Football Research, Houlgate, Litkenhous, National Championship Foundation

1936 LSU: Williamson Minnesota: AP, Billingsley, Dickinson, Dunkel, Helms, Litkenhous, National Championship Foundation, Poling Pittsburgh: Boand, Football Research, Houlgate

1935 LSU: Williamson* Minnesota: Billingsley, Boand, Football Research, Helms, Litkenhous, National Championship Foundation, Poling Princeton: Dunkel Southern Methodist: Dickinson, Houlgate TCU: Williamson*

1934 Alabama: Dunkel, Houlgate, Poling, Williamson Minnesota: Billingsley, Boand, Dickinson, Football Research, Helms, Litkenhous, National Championship Foundation

1933 Michigan: Billingsley, Boand, Dickinson, Helms, Houlgate, Football Research, National Championship Foundation, Parke Davis*, Poling Ohio St.: Dunkel Princeton: Parke Davis* Southern California: Williamson

1932 Colgate: Parke Davis* Michigan: Dickinson, Parke Davis* Southern California: Billingsley, Boand, Dunkel, Football Research, Helms, Houlgate, National Championship Foundation, Parke Davis*, Poling, Williamson

1931 Pittsburgh: Parke Davis* Purdue: Parke Davis* Southern California: Billingsley, Boand, Dickinson, Dunkel, Helms, Houlgate, Football Research, National Championship Foundation, Poling, Williamson

1930 Alabama: Football Research, Parke Davis* Notre Dame: Billingsley, Boand, Dickinson, Dunkel, Helms, Houlgate, National Championship Foundation, Parke Davis*, Poling

1929 Notre Dame: Billingsley, Boand, Dickinson, Dunkel, Football Research, Helms, National Championship Foundation, Poling Pittsburgh: Parke Davis Southern California: Houlgate

1928 Detroit: Parke Davis* Georgia Tech: Billingsley, Boand, Football Research, Helms, Houlgate, National Championship Foundation, Parke Davis*, Poling Southern California: Dickinson

1927 Georgia: Boand, Poling Illinois: Billingsley, Dickinson, Helms, National Championship Foundation, Parke Davis Notre Dame: Houlgate Yale: Football Research

1926 Alabama: Billingsley, Football Research, Helms*, National Championship Foundation*, Poling Lafayette: Parke Davis Navy: Boand, Houlgate Stanford: Dickinson, Helms*, National Championship Foundation*

1925 Alabama: Billingsley, Boand, Football Research, Helms, Houlgate, National Championship Foundation, Poling Dartmouth: Dickinson, Parke Davis

1924 Notre Dame: Billingsley, Boand, Dickinson, Football Research, Helms, Houlgate, National Championship Foundation, Poling Pennsylvania: Parke Davis

1923 California: Houlgate Illinois: Boand, Football Research, Helms, National Championship Foundation*, Parke Davis Michigan: Billingsley, National Championship Foundation*

1922 California: Houlgate, National Championship Foundation* Cornell:: Helms, Parke Davis* Iowa: Billingsley Princeton: Boand, Football Research, National Championship Foundation*, Parke Davis*

1921 California: Boand*, Football Research Cornell: Helms, Houlgate, National Championship Foundation, Parke Davis* Iowa: Billingsley, Parke Davis* Lafayette: Boand*, Parke Davis* Wash. & Jeff.: Boand*

1920 California: Billingsley, Football Research, Helms, Houlgate, National Championship Foundation Harvard: Boand* Notre Dame: Parke Davis* Princeton: Boand*, Parke Davis*

1919 Harvard: Football Research*, Helms, Houlgate, National Championship Foundation*, Parke Davis* Illinois: Billingsley, Boand, Football Research*, Parke Davis* Notre Dame: National Championship Foundation*, Parke Davis* Texas A& M: National Championship Foundation*

1918 Michigan: Billingsley, National Championship Foundation* Pittsburgh: Helms, Houlgate, National Championship Foundation*

1917 Georgia Tech: Billingsley, Helms, Houlgate, National Championship Foundation

1916 Army: Parke Davis* Pittsburgh: Billingsley, Helms, Houlgate, National Championship Foundation, Parke Davis*

1915 Cornell: Helms, Houlgate, National Championship Foundation, Parke Davis* Nebraska: Billingsley Pittsburgh: Parke Davis*

1914 Army: Helms, Houlgate, National Championship Foundation, Parke Davis* Illinois:Parke Davis* Texas: Billingsley

1913 Auburn: Billingsley Chicago: Parke Davis* Harvard: Helms, Houlgate, National Championship Foundation, Parke Davis*

1912 Harvard: Billingsley, Helms, Houlgate, National Championship Foundation*, Parke Davis Penn St.: National Championship Foundation*

1911 Penn St.: National Championship Foundation* Princeton: Helms, Houlgate, National Championship Foundation*, Parke Davis Vanderbilt: Billingsley

1910 Harvard: Helms, Houlgate, National Championship Foundation* Michigan: Billingsley Pittsburgh: National Championship Foundation*

1909 Yale: Billingsley, Helms, Houlgate, National Championship Foundation, Parke Davis

1908 LSU: National Championship Foundation* Pennsylvania: Billingsley, Helms, Houlgate, National Championship Foundation*, Parke Davis

1907 Pennsylvania: Billingsley Yale: Helms, Houlgate, National Championship Foundation, Parke Davis

1906 Princeton: Helms, National Championship Foundation Vanderbilt: Billingsley Yale: Parke Davis

1905 Chicago: Billingsley, Helms, Houlgate, National Championship Foundation Yale: Parke Davis

1904 Michigan: Billingsley, National Championship Foundation* Pennsylvania: Helms, Houlgate, National Championship Foundation*, Parke Davis

1903 Michigan: Billingsley, National Championship Foundation* Princeton: Helms, Houlgate, National Championship Foundation*, Parke Davis

1902 Michigan: Billingsley, Helms, Houlgate, National Championship Foundation, Parke Davis* Yale: Parke Davis*

1901 Harvard: Billingsley Michigan: Helms, Houlgate, National Championship Foundation Yale: Parke Davis

1900 Yale: Billingsley, Helms, Houlgate, National Championship Foundation, Parke Davis

1899 Harvard: Billingsley, Helms, Houlgate, National Championship Foundation Princeton: Parke Davis

1898 Harvard: Billingsley, Helms, Houlgate, National Championship Foundation Princeton: Parke Davis

1897 Pennsylvania: Billingsley, Helms, Houlgate, National Championship Foundation, Parke Davis* Yale: Parke Davis*

1896 Lafayette: National Championship Foundation*, Parke Davis* Princeton: Billingsley, Helms, Houlgate, National Championship Foundation*, Parke Davis*

1895 Pennsylvania: Billingsley, Helms, Houlgate, National Championship Foundation, Parke Davis* Yale: Parke Davis*

1894 Pennsylvania: Parke Davis* Princeton: Houlgate Yale: Billingsley, Helms, National Championship Foundation, Parke Davis*

1893 Princeton: Billingsley, Helms, Houlgate, National Championship Foundation Yale: Parke Davis

1892 Yale: Billingsley, Helms, Houlgate, National Championship Foundation, Parke Davis

1891 Yale: Billingsley, Helms, Houlgate, National Championship Foundation, Parke Davis

1890 Harvard: Billingsley, Helms, Houlgate, National Championship Foundation, Parke Davis

1889 Princeton: Billingsley, Helms, Houlgate, National Championship Foundation, Parke Davis

1888 Yale: Billingsley, Helms, Houlgate, National Championship Foundation, Parke Davis

1887 Yale: Billingsley, Helms, Houlgate, National Championship Foundation, Parke Davis

1886 Princeton: Parke Davis* Yale: Billingsley, Helms, National Championship Foundation, Parke Davis*

1885 Princeton: Billingsley, Helms, Houlgate, National Championship Foundation, Parke Davis

1884 Princeton: Parke Davis* Yale: Billingsley, Helms, National Championship Foundation, Parke Davis*

1883 Yale: Billingsley, Helms, National Championship Foundation, Parke Davis

1882 Yale: Billingsley, National Championship Foundation, Parke Davis

1881 Princeton: Billingsley, Parke Davis* Yale: National Championship Foundation, Parke Davis*

1880 Princeton: National Championship Foundation*, Parke Davis* Yale: Billingsley, National Championship Foundation*, Parke Davis*

1879 Princeton: Billingsley, National Championship Foundation, Parke Davis* Yale: Parke Davis*

1878 Princeton: Billingsley, National Championship Foundation, Parke Davis

1877 Princeton: Parke Davis* Yale: Billingsley, National Championship Foundation, Parke Davis*

1876 Yale: Billingsley, National Championship Foundation, Parke Davis

1875 Colgate: Parke Davis* Harvard: National Championship Foundation, Parke Davis* Princeton: Billingsley, Parke Davis*

1874 Harvard: Parke Davis* Princeton: Billingsley, Parke Davis* Yale: National Championship Foundation, Parke Davis*

1873 Princeton: Billingsley, National Championship Foundation, Parke Davis

1872 Princeton: Billingsley, National Championship Foundation, Parke Davis* Yale: Parke Davis*

1871 No national champions selected.

1870 Princeton: Billingsley, National Championship Foundation, Parke Davis

1869 Princeton: Billingsley, National Championship Foundation,Parke Davis* Rutgers: Parke Davis*

Note : Organization chose multiple schools —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Wolvve85 (talk • contribs) 20:56, 28 December 2006 (UTC).[reply]