Talk:Adam Air Flight 574

Neutrality

• Because the aim of Wikipedia is neutrality and to be non-denominational, I think the fact that this article specifically cites that there were 3 americans on the passenger list of this flight while offering no other citation of other nationalities in the opening paragraph is slanted and biased. C A L L A M . R O D Y A 04:57, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Not at all. The foreigners on the plane just happened to be American. It is assumed the rest are Indonesian. This information is from an Indonesian press agency article. (MichaelJLowe 05:09, 2 January 2007 (UTC))
    • In that case, it should be clearly noted that that of the passengers on board, all were of indonesian nationality except for 3 americans. nothing should be assumed. C A L L A M . R O D Y A 06:29, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
      • Sure, but the reference only referred to the Americans. You are welcome to find and cite a more comprehensive reference. (MichaelJLowe 06:47, 2 January 2007 (UTC))
  • I agree, this kind of blinkered reporting always annoys me. (It reminds me of the legendary newspaper headline after the sinking of the Titanic, "Ship Sinks, Aberdeen Man Drowns") -- 125.238.56.240 10:05, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
    • which is itself likely an urban myth: [1] Btyner 18:39, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
      • Yes, it is an urban legend, which is why I used the word "legendary". -- 125.238.57.200 03:11, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
• I have sought to address NPOV by rewording as "the passemger list is comprised primarily of Indonesian nationals, with the only foreigners being an American family of three". Matt.hatton 11:21, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
• This proves that the three Americans were indeed the only foreigners. Will cite it in the article in adition to current cite, should clear this up once and for all. Blood Red Sandman Open Up Your Heart - Receive My EviLove 15:58, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

The plane's history

"The plane had 45,371 flying hours, and was last serviced and declared airworthy in December 2005.[11]"

Last serviced and declared airworthy in Dec 2005? I take that means a "C" or "D" major maintenance check, but airliners have minor servicing done on them in much more frequent intervals, plus they're checked every day and every flight and have to be signed off as airworthy every time. Could someone with more accurate facts please undate.

CW 09:53, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Someone claims the actual date is 2006 as reported by the BBC. However no direct cite was provided and as it conflicted with the cite we used which was left behind, someone removed it. If someone can confirm that the BBC or other agencies are reporting December 25 2006, we should include this Nil Einne 12:46, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

According to Indonesian news articles it was a C-Check. 58.178.215.97 10:52, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Mention of finding the blackboxes

This article, however, had not mentioned the finding of the blackboxes of the flight KI0574. I have reviewed the article and if this article were to mention the finding of the blackboxes, it needs to be considered, if possible, redo the article (with the mentioning of the blackboxes). Thank You.

TeoWS 11:14, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, this is horrible. Does Indonesia require black boxes? Xiner (talk, email) 03:13, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

With the plane still missing ,the search for the black box is impossible.... and yes we do have black boxes.125.164.190.109 05:32, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, actually, I was thinking blackboxes guide the search for the plane. I guess they're doing that though. Xiner (talk, email) 01:58, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

The plane is still missing so the black box is impossible to found.--Calupict! 05:38, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

OK, so wait for the plane to be found and then someone mention the finding of the blackboxes if possible.

TeoWS 11:57, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

When the falsely reported news came (that the plane has been found), there is this news that the National Commission for Transportation Safety (Indonesian) will focus on the search of the black box. 202.138.62.41 16:00, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Jet not found: CNA Reports

CNA has just gotten the latest news: Adam Air jet not found: Indonesian official

More of the news can be found here. Please refer to it and update if neccessary. Thank You. TeoWS 12:00, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Deletion of casualties report

Until there is a cited article the report of 12 survivors should not be listed. An idonesian official has denied the validity of these reports Criptofcorbin 12:21, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

I think that until the claims that the wreckage has not been found are 100% confirmed in the press that the previous details should be still be mentioned regarding the wreckage/survivors/etc skyskraper 12:33, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

I think we should wait for multiply-confirmed information about survivors, esp. since the wife of my cousin may have been on that flight. I say 'may' because a name on the passenger list is identical to that of my cousin's wife. Email to family members is attempting to ascertain this. RahadyanS 22:53, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

TEN News

Ten News reports that the plane has crashed into a mountain with 12 survivors. ~ Trisreed my talk my contribs 13:47, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Just about everyone reported that. As it clearly says in the article, that has since proved to be false. Blood Red Sandman Open Up Your Heart - Receive My EviLove 15:41, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Disputed

See here. Acdx 20:49, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Fixed. See the same link. Removing tag. User:Logical2u_Talk 20:50, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Disappear?

What do you mean by "disappear?" A plane doesn't just vanish. There is possibility that the plane crashed, or it landed on some mysterious uncharted island or something. Anyway, you can't just say disappear, you have to note somehow some possibilities of what may have happened and what the implications of the disappearance may be. It seems awfully vague just saying that the airplane disappeared.... → JARED ^(t)  22:14, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree, it is horribly vague, but thats all that we know. It is our policy (except I don't think its actually written, just the way we allways do it) not to specualte about accident/incident flights, even if thats what the media are doing, but instead to wait for hard facts. We know it vanished off radar screens, and we know it hasn't been found, therefore 'disappeared' is the best we can do. Blood Red Sandman Open Up Your Heart - Receive My EviLove 23:04, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

I was just thinking that there may be sources out there which may have an idea of where it went. I am unfamiliar with the topic, and will leave it to you to edit. I agree that it would just be speculating, though, if it isn't sourced. → JARED ^(t)  23:14, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Sadly, thats all we know. Although I have seen several reports which said that a ringtone could be heard when the co-pilots mobile phone was called, meaning the plane is virtualy certainly on land. Someone removed it last night with no explanation, but I intend to restore it to the article. Ohter than that, we can only keep checking Up-to-date reports and wait. Blood Red Sandman Open Up Your Heart - Receive My EviLove 23:21, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

As we no nothing of fact concerning the fate of this airplane, why is the article using the past tense to refer to it? Falconus|Talk 00:09, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

I assume you mean in the opening paragraph, "...was a scheduled...". Well, that is standard for accident flights. Even if all people are now found, after an incident of this magnitude, the flight number will be retired. Therefore, there will never again be a flight with the number Adam Air Flight 574. Blood Red Sandman Open Up Your Heart - Receive My EviLove 00:16, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Okay, Thanks. I got a little mixed up because I was looking at the main article on Adam Air beforehand, where they already have written off the aircraft.--Falconus|Talk 00:21, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

I see, it is getting a little confusing, with reports being issued saying they found it, only to then be retracted again, and the aircraft still missing. I'll see to it that the Adam Air article is sorted. Blood Red Sandman Open Up Your Heart - Receive My EviLove 00:25, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Okay. Thank you. --Falconus|Talk 00:26, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

This is Indonesia, the land that is a living embodiment of SNAFU, and the cell phone thing is meaningless (esp. since it should be turned off in the first place when flying!). Until there's firm proof (televised footage) of wreckage, I think the only thing we can safely say is that the aircraft is and remains missing. Jpatokal 03:26, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

The last known beacon coordinates (030 13’92’’ S 1190 09’17’’ E) cited from the Adam Air News Alert site make no geographic sense. The Wiki article should not cite the values as authoritative and indicate somehow that we are aware of the contradiction. Perhaps a registered user would like to put a "(sic)" in there.

I don't like the non-English link either, but could you explain why the numbers don't make sense? Xiner (talk, email) 03:39, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

This might be related to the Bermuda Triangle events. Many of the crafts that dissapeared around that region were not found, even after 50 years. It is possible the Bermuda Triangle phenominon just so happened to Flight 574, but like they say, innocent until proven. If this catches the eyes of paranormal investigators and cults, it is possible that end-of-the-world theorys would be formed. If this does have to do with the Bermuda Triangle and if air and sea vehicles really do dissapear there, then the explainations would be either A. Unknown natural phenominon, B. Extended range of the Triangle, or C. Extraterrestial abductions. All of these are unlikely but it is good to keep an open mind. --Eiyuu Kou 18:52, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Hmmmm... I would be tempted to believe paranormal/conspiracy theories had it disapeared over, say Britain or the United States. But out in Indonesia, the rational, likely explanation is that the plane has disapeared into the dense unsergrowth; it's a pretty wild part of the planet. Although if the plane remains undiscovered for some time, there will ineviatably be 'alternative' theories; some of them may become notable and require documentation - and it is possible yet (though also unlikely) for something to emerge to make them credible... Blood Red Sandman Open Up Your Heart - Receive My EviLove 19:38, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

I am beginning to believe someone doesn't want to find this plane. I wonder why?Mrebstad 00:34, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Something you also need to remember, that in addition to the ELT (emergency locator transmitter), 95% of all CVRs (cockpit voice recorder) and DFDRs (digital flight data recorder) have pingers on them so that they can be located even underwater even after great impact as was the case with Valuejet in Florida and the Silkair 737 several years ago. Any military ship, both surface or submarine, should be able to pick up the pinging with their passive sonar system if the aircraft ended up in the water. These pingers are supposed to have a 30 day battery and survive at great depth.Mrebstad 01:06, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Day five, still no plane. It took a while, but it is finally starting to bother me. The problem is that the plane has multiple devices on it capable of emitting a signal, and they are virtually guaranteed to all be working let alone any one of them. They can take a lot, the examples you gave above prove this. There are reasons that a government might not want a plane found, but I'm gonna give it a few more days to turn up before I state any of them; I prefer to avoid conspiracies until there is some credibility in such explanations. Blood Red Sandman Open Up Your Heart - Receive My EviLove 07:44, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

You know what I'm thinking?! This is like the real-life comparison of the LOST series. This is ridiculous. But then again a British expert was quoted as saying it would be hard to find in the dense jungle in a BBC article. Several news articles suggested that the batteries of the pinging devices are running out quick; pretty much a chase. And uh as to conspiracy theory.. I wouldn't say the 'government' in particular because it has invited even the US forces to look for it... possibly another group =P Hahaha geez this is interesting. 58.178.215.97 10:44, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

UPDATE! According to an Indonesian telematics expert, the battery life of an ELT device is only 2x24 hours provided that they were fully charged. 58.178.215.97 12:09, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

UPDATE! A news article reported that a Lion Air flight 794 (Ambon-Makassar) received a distress signal on Banda Sea, about 60 miles from Kendiri late afternoon local time today. The reading was 04°10'S 123°25'E. Up to now the rescue team heading to the location has not reported anything back yet. (But I think it might be due to a coverage-less jungle). Let's hope it's found ;-) 211.26.91.118 16:55, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Should we put this? The website itself said that it's still not known whether the received distress signal comes from the missing plane or not. Kaizer1784 01:24, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Hmmm, What do you suppose could have been on that plane that a government or person may not want it be found?Mrebstad 03:05, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm going to resist the temptation to start speculating here, since we're meant to remain on-topic on the article talk page, but maybe it's time we took this discusion somewhere else, such as, say, my talk page? Blood Red Sandman Open Up Your Heart - Receive My EviLove 09:54, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

• And here is where I dislike the "anyone can edit" part of Wikipedia. We have a plane missing in a pretty rough section of the world, and we've already got people shifting their eyes and talking about government conspiracies, alien abductions, and the Bermuda Triangle. I particularly like the "what was on this plane that the government didn't want found?" Ooh, I know, maybe it was the plans for the magical earthquake generator the Illuminati used to cause the big tsunami! Roland Deschain 02:45, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

• • Well, there is now a rational explanation turning up (which certainly pleases me, as I don't like conspiracy theories, but the continued lack of discovery was forcing me to consider something unthinkable). The explanation fills all the gaps, and, while it can't go in the article as it is speculation, to kill any 'alternative' theories I'm going to state it here. The aircraft was 17 years old, acording to most sources. It had last had a full inspection something like a year ago; I'm hearing December 2005 as the last time. That made it highly likely to be riddled with metal fatigue. We know that on the night the aircraft hit stormy weather, and was forced to change course twice. Contact was lost shortly after the second change. On the second one, it was most likely steering back on course (having been going slightly off course as that route was easier). When it did so, it would put itself at an angle to the wind, leaving the rudder sticking up to catch the wind like a sail. To make matters worse, to counteract this, the pilots must use the rudder itself, forcing the aircraft to maintain a straight course. Something overstressed and gave way, and the tailfin assembly, including the ELT mounted near the tail, drops into the sea. The rest of the aircraft nosedives down (as aircraft usualy do after loss of the tailfin, with a handful of exceptions), and 'flies' straight down into land. This sort of impact would give a very compact debris field, and would be hard to locate. I hope this explains the disapearance well enough for now, and kills off any other theories.

Picture

Do we have a photo of the plane in question anywhere? -- Tony Springston 00:58, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Check the external links. Someone should try to contact the authors of these pictures and ask for permission to include a picture on wikipedia (MichaelJLowe 01:06, 3 January 2007 (UTC))

The aircraft shown on wikipedia Adam Air Flight 574 page is the aicraft that is missing PK-KKW...look at the letters on the nose gear door and you will see KW which are the last two letter of the aicraft registration or aircraft ID. For further proof go to www.airliners.net and input PK-KKW and you will see that although the paint is a earlier livery, the nose gear door shows the letters KW for the last two letters of the aircraft ID. Mrebstad 02:07, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

This news said that the missing plane have not yet received a repaint due to tight schedule. It is still white!! 211.26.109.32 19:36, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Unless the picture posted has been "doctored" or edited, the aircraft ID on the nose gear door does not lie...and as for the news story, Is this information from the same source that told the world they found the accident site and told the world that there were survivors?Mrebstad 23:16, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

The news stated a source, Gugi Pringwa Saputra (AdamAir's Director of Sales who is also the head of the emergency info center for this incident) during a press conference in AdamAir's office at "Jl. Peta Barat No. 89, Jakarta Barat," Wednesday (3/1/2007). "Ya, itu memang belum sempat dicat. Kita baru sewa dari perusahaan di Amerika tahun yang lalu, sekitar akhir 2005 atau awal 2006. Jadi, memang itu belum sempat kami cat," - "Yes that plane indeed hasn't been painted. We have just hired it from a company in America last year, around the end of 2005 or the start of 2006. So, yes indeed we haven't painted it," 58.178.218.16 03:13, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Another earlier article from the same website also stated that AdamAir's Manager of Communication, Reni, said that there is one plane which has not been painted. "Itu belum dicat. Ada satu," - "That hasn't been painted. There is one," 58.178.218.16 03:21, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Your news story quotes are all very fine and good, but how do you account for the picture??? Are you saying that it has been altered (I don't care one way or the other. I didn't post it, All I care about is accuracy.). Again, you are quoting from the same people who told the world a bunch of false information, that they found the wreakage and that there were, to quote them, 12 survivors. Now I ask you, who are you going to believe???Mrebstad 04:01, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Well okay, first of all I should be clear here that "the same people who told the world a bunch of false information" as you put it is a vague term by itself, because the false news actually came from rumours on the ground that rooted from a comment that one civilian had seen a plane with black smoke and low altitude which later on this info was confirmed by local village chief, police chief, and later governor... Now of course the media correspond to this by publishing the confirmed news. BUT as for this news... if you read carefully, this time the source is from managers of AdamAir themselves. And I also need to quote this sentence from the article to correspond with the picture: "Badan pesawat ini bercat putih dengan tulisan ADAMAIR, dengan tulisan ADAM warna oranye dan AIR warna hijau. Cat oranye juga ada di bagian sayap, tapi sebagian kecil." - "The body of this aeroplane has white paint with the letter ADAMAIR, with orange font for ADAM and green for AIR. Orange paint also presents near the wings, but only a little" and Meski begitu, kata dia, pesawat itu dipasangi tulisan ADAMAIR plus logonya. "Pesawat itu satu-satunya pesawat kami yang masih bercat putih, belum kami cat," kata Gugi. - Despite the case (hasn't been painted), the plane has been attached with the writing ADAMAIR plus the logo. "The plane was the only one of our planes that still retained the white paint, we haven't painted it," said Gugi. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 58.178.215.97 (talk) 04:56, 5 January 2007 (UTC).

So, lets stop dancing around the issue. Are you answering my questions? How do you account for the picture??? Are you saying that the picture has been modified or tampered with??? Again, I don't care one way or the other, again I didn't post it and again I'm only interested in accuracy and accountiblity. Have you looked at the picture??? I used to be a journalist and I am a pilot and work for a major airline.Mrebstad 05:31, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Currently I have posted a query comment on the userpage of the uploader in the Indonesian wiki and am waiting for an answer. The orange photo might be another plane in AdamAir's armada. Don't be so sure, let's just put "This is the suspected missing plane" as the caption. Well as a former journalist you should be well familiar on how to handle confusing issues like this and to be portraying the news as accurate as possible to the public. Now when you have two contradicting news like this (and not to forget one is clearly more reliable as the managers said it themselves) I'll let you decide according to your professionality. Thanks, and yes I have looked at the picture on the airliners.net (as "the only one" that has mostly white paint). 58.178.215.97 05:37, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Does anyone else think that the ID on the photo could be KH instead of KW? The resolution of the photo makes it hard to distinguish. Looking at the list of aircraft operated by Adam Air, they do have planes with both IDs. (MichaelJLowe 05:59, 5 January 2007 (UTC))

Oh yes that's true. I'm with you on this. I initially thought it was KM or something, but KH is the best. 58.178.215.97 06:17, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

I thought KH originally too, but I took a very careful look at it, and I'm confident to say it is KW (I hope I don't come to regret that statement) Blood Red Sandman Open Up Your Heart - Receive My EviLove 07:32, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

I believe its more likely to be KH, because if it was KW, the center stroke of the character W should extend to the very top of the character. If you look at the photo on wikipedia the center stroke does not extend vertically beyond the middle of the character. Take a look at the photos of PK-KKW here [2] and compare (MichaelJLowe 08:37, 5 January 2007 (UTC))

Also take a look at this PK-KKH picture for reassurance / comparison. It's PK-KKH - the quotes from the managers stated above are true, and despite any debate on this wiki the SAR team is looking for a white wreckage. ;-) 58.178.215.97 10:27, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Judge for yourself:

Acdx 12:11, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Hi guys, I try to resolve this dispute. I check my original picture which has better resolution than the one I upload to Wikipedia. I assure you that the picture is PK-KKH. Sorry about this. Arisdp [[3]]

Guys, the uploader has just spoken above. I am gonna change the caption. Thanks, Arisdp! 211.26.91.118 16:47, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

To Arisdp: Thanks Guy for stepping up to the plate and clearing up the mystery. To everyone else who wrote in: Thanks for taking the time to stop and think about this picture, but we (the world) seem to take everything the media puts out there as the truth and because they believe that they have some kind of power that if they say it it is the truth. I could not lie or mislead the readers that looked to me to be accurate and accountable for what I told them, that is one of the reasons I got out of the business. Just for the record: I was a journalist and I am pilot, but not professionally and I work for a major airline, not as a pilot, but in what I feel is more important to overall airline safety, the System Operations Control Center, where I oversee the flight planning, dispatching, flight following and yes, God forbid, putting into action SAR if needed for all the flights I am responible for. Having said all of that, I need to say that everything I have written on these pages are my own opinions and not that of the airline I work for. Thanks for thinking and investigating for yourselves.Mrebstad 19:03, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Up-to-date reports - THE PLANE HAS NOT YET BEEN FOUND

Hi, I would like to advise people here that Google News can be set up to show the most recent reports about the crash first; see Here. We should check this regularly so we can know as soon as the wreckage is really discovered. Blood Red Sandman Open Up Your Heart - Receive My EviLove 16:03, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Endless reverts

People are constantly updating the article with outdated and incorrect information regarding the discovery of the missing aircraft. My suggestion would be to throw in Template:Controversial or Template:ReversionWar. Acdx 03:51, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

I've placed the second of the two on the article. Blood Red Sandman Open Up Your Heart - Receive My EviLove 12:34, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

There should be no dispute. Dozens of sources are carrying the fact that the initial information about the discovery of the plane was incorrect. There is nothing hard or controversial about it. Just people who don't have the new information. that is what the {{current}} tag should be for. Merbabu 12:55, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

The Passenger list

I found two articles which have the passenger list. Which one is the better one:

• From the Adam Air site: http://www.flyadamair.com/info/admin/fullnews.php?id=1
• From one of Indonesia newspaper site: http://www.kompas.com/ver1/Nasional/0701/01/234039.htm —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Calupict (talk • contribs) 05:40, 3 January 2007 (UTC).

phone ringing

"The aircraft is believed to be on land, because a Search and Rescue duty officer at Makassar, Abdul Gani, is reported to have said that when an attempt was made to contact the co-pilot via mobile phone, "There was a ring tone, but no answer." This suggests that the aircraft did not crash into the sea, because the telephone would be unlikely to work there"

if it rang, wouldnt the telco be able to track which mobile phone tower was useing the mobile? and find the plane?

i wouldnt know if its technicly capable, its just that info just doesnt sound right to me.

We can track which tower, but that still doesn't narrow it down very much. We're better off doing exactly whats being done - going on towards the beacon until we reach the plane. Wherever that may be. Blood Red Sandman Open Up Your Heart - Receive My EviLove 12:31, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

They're currently tracking any cellphone numbers of victims from relatives and trying to call those numbers and with the help of the operators they will locate the signal. All of this is under one condition, i.e. at least one of the phones must be turned on for them to effectively locate the plane. So far they have only obtained 5 numbers, all of which have been switched off hours before the accident. One relative was shocked after receiving a blank sms from his kin (a victim) almost one day after the incident. But efforts to call the number back was useless and the corresponding operator (Telkomsel) suggested that it was a late sms due to their heavily congested network the previous day (a rare incident that was on the news as well). 58.178.215.97 10:35, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

UPDATE! All passangers' cellphone numbers were inactive and thus undetectable. The last recorded position was only at Surabaya. According to this news - Recording on demand link 58.178.215.97 11:58, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

WikiNews

Is there a wikinews article on this? Xxxxxxxxxxx 08:15, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Should be, somewhere. I'll try to get a chance to look later tonoght. Blood Red Sandman Open Up Your Heart - Receive My EviLove 17:08, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

It's already there, I missed it. It's in the external links section. Blood Red Sandman Open Up Your Heart - Receive My EviLove 17:17, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Hariyanto

Hariyanto is not the village but an officer. Andres 12:53, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Thats not what the original citation said. For some reason it has been replaced by poorer cites that do not support the information. I am going to replace the priginal cite, which has the information as it is written in the article; the others don not even contain the word "Hariyanto". Blood Red Sandman Open Up Your Heart - Receive My EviLove 12:59, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

I erased it first. I need to read the source first and then copyedit that poor section later. — Indon (reply) — 13:00, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

To prevent us duplicating our effort, I'll leave you to it, then. Blood Red Sandman Open Up Your Heart - Receive My EviLove 13:01, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Done. ;-) — Indon (reply) — 13:26, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Revert wars

Per this talk page, the revert wars appear to have been users mistakenly adding inaccurate info. The 'revert wars' were therefore not content disputes and there doesn't seem to be anything to discuss about them. As such, I've removed the revert war template. I've also added a hidden comment to try and prevent users adding inaccurate info, altho I would expect most people must know by now that the earlier reports were wrong. If I'm mistaken and there are some genuine issues then please discuss them in the talk page Nil Einne 14:10, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

The revert war seems to be vandals-driven now. Xiner (talk, email) 01:58, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

I think it is common if an article is in the main page. — Indon (reply) — 07:22, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree that it seems more than common; it seems the accepted norm. The previous reversion war, whether or not the wreckage had been discovered, seems to have cleared up now. Blood Red Sandman Open Up Your Heart - Receive My EviLove 07:31, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

New Developments

CNN is reporting that the plane after all did not issue a distress signal and that Singapore air force planes have joined in the massive land and sea hunt for the missing aircraft [4]. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.95.150.178 (talk) 16:27, 4 January 2007 (UTC).

I've edited the page to reflect this Kiarasexton 18:17, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

No distress signals but two signals detected??

I was copyediting the Speculations and Predictions section. It is written that two different signals detected simultaneously from the Emergency Locator Transmitter; one from the Singaporean satellite and one from Indonesian military air base. Previously there was a report of two distress signals, but the current news said that the plane did not send any distress signals (see the thread above and the Flight Chronology section). However, if you read the Emergency Locator Transmitter article, it is a device which will send distress signal during emergency. So, there is a contradictory statement here. — Indon (reply) — 20:00, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Are you referring to the beacon signals? A plane travelling normally will be seen on radar and is visible to satellites. The articles are very specific in stating no distress signals were received from the aircraft. Kiarasexton 21:25, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Okay first of all the "no distress signals" statement means specifically for any means of calling for help from the pilots. We should reword it. The article that said no distress signals were called also indicated that there is ELT going on. And this article which is the translation of the Indonesian news cited for the ELT part, said that the ELT is switched on automatically when a plane crashes. 58.178.215.97 06:03, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

I have added a new clearer source from The Jerusalem Post, check it out. 58.178.215.97 06:14, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

2007 Bug?

Please do not delete without discussion. . .this is supposed to be a discussion page. Has anyone outruled the possibility of a New Year's glitch in this plane?

See article: http://www.computerworld.com/blogs/node/392672.53.14.224 07:07, 5 January 2007 (UTC)Allison72.53.14.224 07:07, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

What the heck ^^ the article only suggests that for space shuttle software. 58.178.215.97 07:16, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

As far as I am aware, it would be dificult - verging on impossible - for any single software fault to take out an aircraft, since to the best of my knowledge multiple differant systems would have to be taken out for the aircraft to actually crash. Think how many inacurate instrument readings it took for AeroPeru Flight 603 to finally crash. Blood Red Sandman Open Up Your Heart - Receive My EviLove 07:26, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Unlikely - why would it only affect a single aircraft out of the more than one thousand 737-300/-400/-500s in the world...? Nick Moss 08:13, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

But how many planes were actually flying at that time? May be a combination of old parts and new parts gone bad (old thinking 1907 or whatever).

With more than 4,100 airplanes in service, the 737 represents more than a quarter of the total worldwide fleet of large commercial jets flying today. On the average about 1,250 737s are in the air at all times; one takes off or lands every 4.6 seconds. [5] Acdx 12:14, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Original question disappeared! 58.178.215.97 10:22, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Now it's back. Acdx 12:17, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

hahaha very funny I was just waiting for someone to do it :-) 58.178.215.97 12:20, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Technical I cannot be sure but i have my doubts that there are no tools to locate the wreckage. Anyhow after the first days of search US and singapore admittedly involved with their more modern search methods. (satelites, infrared registering planes). And then there is the ongoing news of transmissions that are registered (those would be really easy to locate). Since it apparently doesn't exist i suggest a one button distress signal is installed in the cockpit of airliners.(yes i know blackboxes are standard material )

I have one more technical remark. I have been looking into plaincrashes a bit recently, mostly because they are so liable for being declared acts of terrorism, and already a while ago i noticed it is definetly 737's crashing the most. So i actually think these things have outlived their age(45k flight hours?23 years?), or even that they are rigged to explode, the recent african report suggested that, when a mullah or some such died, survivors had noticed a huge explosion inside but no evidence was ever found of sabotage. Also had not the public noticed, the suggestion was: the survivors would have disappeared, rather shortly after them getting on a TVnews, officials tried to declare there were no (such) survivors. Since this is a 737 too it caught my interesse. I am quitte sure were i an islamic exploiter of airlines i wouldn't use usian planes. The only way to check that is to regard the passenger lists of recent 737s crashing from a completely different point of view.212.187.41.61 18:14, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Given that the 737 is the most popular aircraft type in airline service at the moment, with over 5,000 delivered, it is only natural that it should be involved in a greater percentage of accidents than other aircraft types. Add into this the fact that the majority of accidents occur in the take-off/departure and approach/landing phases of flight, and this skews the numbers even more, given that the 737 is a short range airliner which will typically fly many more flight sectors in a day than a longer range aircraft. Take a look at http://www.airdisaster.com/statistics/ - it is from data up to the end of 2004, and I think it demonstrates that the 737 is not experiencing accidents at a greater rate than other aircraft types.

Age shouldn't necessarily be an issue either - a 20+ year old aircraft should be perfectly safe, provided it is being maintained to the appropriate standard. As for suggestions that 737s are rigged to explode, or being specifically targetted as an aircraft type by terrorists, I think they are highly unlikely... The simplest explanation is that the 737 is a very popular aircraft type, in use on a lot of operations where it will make several flights every day, and therefore is going to make up a greater percentage of accidents than a less popular and less well utilised aircraft type. Nick Moss 21:28, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Extraterrestrial activity

Not to say that I hold to this theory myself, but the possibiity of "collection" by persons or beings unknown has been considered. --AWF

• Well first of all you admitted that what you did was vandalism: "(cur) (last) 17:48, 5 January 2007 65.54.97.193 (Talk) (reversion of vandalism)" 211.26.91.118 17:57, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
  • "Vandalism" referred to the removal of my contribution. "Reversion" thereof was meant to show that said material was resubmitted to the article in question. --AWF
    • Excuse me but I don't know how to respond to your comment. Would you please debate your controversial suggestion in this discussion page prior to changing the main article. And, this is not an episode of LOST. 211.26.91.118 18:04, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
      • I'm not a viewer of the show myself. The point is that some discussion has been made concerning alien involvment with the plane's "removal," for lack of a better term. I sought to include a one line mention under the sub-category of "Speculations and predictions." --AWF
        • Okay, sorry if anything I said offended you but in that case you can wait for users to comment on your argument here. But with your reputation as a vandal, how can one trust you? 211.26.91.118 18:16, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
          • My "reputation as a vandal?" Sorry to disappoint, but only the subject concerning myself is the one surrounding this airline. I hold a dynamic IP, meaning it changes virtually every time I sign online, and I hold no user name for this site. In other words, those complaints are against different users. --AWF
            • Sounds reasonable, doesn't it chime in with Bermuda triangle style theories. Although it probably fell into the sea.
              • I must say, I'm in favour of removing the "Speculations and predictions" section altogether, we shouldn't be repeating speculation, and anything useful could be easily merged into another section. Anyone else agree? Blood Red Sandman Open Up Your Heart - Receive My EviLove 19:43, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
                • A "speculations" section could get out of hand - already I see mentions (on the talk page, not in the article) of extraterrestrial involvement. Also, unless it is not found for awhile longer, it will be better to just wait until the actual facts are reported.--Falconus|Talk 19:51, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
                  • I agree. I'm getting rid of it. Anyway, what with another aircraft having picked up a signal, The section may soon become redundant with the aircrafts discovery. Blood Red Sandman Open Up Your Heart - Receive My EviLove 19:58, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
                    • On second thoughts, we need to work out where to merge the info about the simultaneous twin signals to (which should never even have been there in the first place). Any suggestions? Blood Red Sandman Open Up Your Heart - Receive My EviLove 20:01, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
• Here is a prime example of the type of incident to which I'm referencing. A single-engine aircraft, with some rather bizarre statements broadcast by its pilot, thought by some to have been taken by extraterrestrials. --AWF

Blood red sandman, yes I do have a suggestion. Maybe we can merge it after "In the face of heavy rain and strong winds in the area, the search efforts, coordinated from Makassar city, were focused in the area between the coastal town of Majene and the mountaineous region of Toraja.[28]" (add "due to the twin signal blah2x.."). I didn't think of any chances of strange extraterrestrial vandalism when I created this speculation section. Sorry ^^ 211.26.109.142 13:02, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

211, that works well. I've gone through with your suggestion; thanks. Blood Red Sandman Open Up Your Heart - Receive My EviLove 13:08, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

I did some rewording so that it makes more sense. The two locations correspond to each other. 211.26.90.52 16:24, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

I noticed that; not only does it make more sense but the word flow has improved too. Thanks! Blood Red Sandman Open Up Your Heart - Receive My EviLove 16:28, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

why dont they

just use satellite photos?

im sure the cia has a few looking down on indonesia....

now, there is no way this plane may have ended up in the bremuda trianlge but there is another conspiracy theory ...

what about that plane that was hijacked from africa a few years back, where the plane ran out of gas and went into the water, emergency landing... it was caught on tape

maybe this is a hijack gone bad ?

to quote Sayid from Lost, "Basic photography - point and shoot. Satellites can shoot, but they must be told where to point." —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.10.111.57 (talk) 19:35, 6 January 2007 (UTC).

Reference Date

Some reference retrieval dates are 2007-02-04. Meam5555 05:39, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Discusion required over at the Adam Air article

Hi, I have raised an issue over at the Adam Air article regarding the size of it's entry for Flight 574. Comments over there would be welcomed. Blood Red Sandman Open Up Your Heart - Receive My EviLove 12:33, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Somebody probably has vandalised the article page

The article was changed into these texts

"Tulin kotiin, luulin sinut löydän kirjees näin päällä peilipöydän lause vain tää niin lohduton sori nyt mun mentävä on

Vain valokuvas piirongin päällä tunnu ei sun tuoksusi täällä kylmä niin kuin marraskuu on ilman sua mun sydämein sinne ei ei koskaan ei valo pääse auringon..." and so on.

Please somebody revert / do something about this. Thanks in advance. 203.91.132.18 15:53, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Done, thanks Blood Red Sandman Open Up Your Heart - Receive My EviLove 17:17, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

ADDED : I deleted another vandalism act : the photos were pornographics and i decided to delete them. Can someone replace the right images please? 86.192.197.108 19:56, 7 January 2007 (UTC)Aveyond06

More vandals are attacking the article, can it be protected? -86.31.112.159 20:55, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Ask at WP:RFPP. Blood Red Sandman Open Up Your Heart - Receive My EviLove 21:57, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

sonar contacts

so wreckage has been found ..... adam air ? well thats yet to be seen, the ship will arrive tomorrow...

speculation on what could have caused the plane to go down without time to even send out a distress call?

perhaps another twa 800 center fuel tank like accident? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.87.247.100 (talk) 03:55, 9 January 2007 (UTC).

Patrick Smith

He's cited twice on the page; in fact it's even the same citation. Needs cleanup. (talk) 09:17, 9 January 2007 (UTC)