Talk:Grigori Rasputin
Dates
From page "January 10" is no link to this side. But this seems to be the birthday. Instead there is a link from "July 29". Same with day of death (16.12. vs. 29.12.). BTW I don't know the correct dates.
Assasination attempts and sex life
I want to bring one fact to the discussion: One attempted murder at Rasputin was just as the czar had to make up his mind about how to react on Austria´s rage on Serbia, Summer 1914 when Serbian terrorists had assasinated Österreich-Ungarn´s Prinzregent. Although Rasputin´s sexual life was Kennedy-like (this guy was assasinated, too) his political mind was sober, and many people say that he would have impressed on the czar that Russian monarchy could only loose in a full-grown war against the technically superior Germany.
Name
Edward Radzinsky clearly proves in his book on Rasputin that Rasputin did not in fact name himself with that disgraceful name but actually tried unsuccessfully to change his name to Nowy. It wouldn't work - his detreactors liked the ugly name he was born with too much to let it pass. So, I rewrote the article and fleshed it out a bit more - the more details there are, the more apparent it becomes how *strange* that man actually was, and how important his concededly minute role in history and politics finally turned out to be.-
Are you sure about "Rasputin" meaning "licentious"? I was under the impression it meant "mud", as in "rasputitsa" -- "mud season" (i.e., "rainy season"). Is it slang? -- Paul Drye
I am sure of the translation I saw in Dutch, and choose one of the three possible translations of that word into English. How about "dissolute", does that come a little closer to the idea? Maybe we should ask Alexandr Voronov if it's slang or not. I know 'Njet' in Russian, that's about all.
It would depend on which idea you are getting at: "licentious" has connotations of sex, while "dissolute" is more general -- it could mean gambling, or laziness, or a number of other things. -- Paul Drye
In on of the articles I read about this guy, a bookreview about Rasputin I believe it was, was clearly indicated that he was known for his sexual excesses, debaucheries, dissipations ( you see why I have much respect for professional translators?). In round words, he messed around with women a lot - if that biographer of Rasputin is right. The article also indicated that a lot of people in St. Petersburg knew about it. It means that "licentious" wasn't that bad a choice after all. Agree?
Well, the problem I have is that I believe Rasputin chose his last name for himself -- as he was a self-styled religious prophet, I would be VERY surprised if he called himself licentious :) I thought he named himself after the Russian word for "mud" as a false show of humility -- Paul Drye
I see your point if what you say is true. He certainly wouln't have called himself that way. But are you sure he choose his own nickname? Would it be possible that this word has TWO connotations in Russian? One he used as a kind of honorary nickname, and one the people mockingly called him after awhile? Like he showered St. Petersburg with filthyness?
--Paul, I have incorporated your remarks in the text and and added some remarks about his religious status. And someday, someone will come along who knows for sure...:).
Well, I'm Russian; here's what I know about the term:
"rasput" appears in four distinct meaning:
- rasputitsa - I have never actually heard this word used, although it may have been more common at the turn of the century.
- rasputye - a crossroads, literally "where paths split."
- rasputat' - to untangle
- rasputnost' - debauchery, licentiousness.
I we need a philologist here... --KamikazeArchon
I seem to recall that he named himself rasputin, something to do with being associated with a flaggelant cult or something like that. --alan d.
"Rasputin" refers to the terrain where the Rasputin family originally settled. It was common to adopt surnames in the manner long ago. This was the family name well before Grigori Efimovich Rasputin was born. It is not an uncommon surname (example: contemporary Russian writer Valentin Rasputin).
Rasputin was not a member of the Khlystii sect; he did check it out, but was appalled by what he found. He had no involvement with the flaggelent sect, believing (as most Orthodox Christians do) that our bodies are a gift, in sense a tool to use as we work our way through earthly life.
In great contrast to the West's views of Rasputin, formed mainly through movies and factually-questionable/debatable books, the Orthodox Church of Russia has given serious consideration to canonizing Rasputin, basing this on the man rather than the myth. Rasputin was flawed, and he sinned, like all of us do.But his faith was very strong, and he lived his life freely giving whatever he had.
References requested
It would be cool if you guys referenced a few movies, and maybe some literature (romance, biographies) about him. Thanks! Yves 01:34 Sep 13, 2002 (UTC)
Affair with Tsarina? Starets as a term.
Does anyone know if Rasputin and the Tzarina ever had an affair? I have heard rumours about this, but I cannot find a reliable source which either refutes or confirms this.
Regardless of literal meaning I am not sure I like the term Italic text starets being applied to Rasputin. St. Seraphim of Sarov and St. Sergius of Radonezh are starets or starsti (plural) and it would not be good to confuse people with the terms. Starets is a term usually applied by Russsian Orthodox Christians to an incredibly great and holy spirtiual teacher, most always a monk. No matter what information comes to light about Grigori Rasputin, I do not think such a title applies.
There's no evidence that Rasputin was anything more than a friend too the Tzarina. The letters that she wrote to him and vis-versa seem to support this view. Plus, Rasputin had plenty of girls, high and low born. He probably wouldn't have risked his neck for sex.
Also, Rasputin was repeatedly referred to in his lifetime as a Starets.
ESoterica as fact
One paragraph ends with:
"The idea that one can attain grace through sin is not secret. It is also understood that sin is an inescapable part of the human condition, and the responsibility of a believer is to be keenly aware of his sins, and willing to confess them, thereby attaining humility."
Does this seem like a non-sequitur to anyone else? It sounds like an assertion of fact rather than of opinion, and as if it belongs as part of a different article.
While it would certainly be a good place to link to an article discussing the idea, I don't think asserting this as fact is appropriate for this article.
Potassium cyanide
The article says that Rasputin possessed a certain condition that made him invulnerable to potassium cyanide. However, the Potassium cyanide article here says:
- The antidote against potassium cyanide poisoning is glucose which can greatly slow down the poison's effect and protect the cells by binding the cyanide competitively. The somewhat legendary immunity of Gregory Rasputin to cyanide was not due to his supernatural powers, but due to the incompetence of his killers: they put poison in sweet pastries and madeira wine, both of which are rich in sugar. Rasputin was administered the poison together with massive quantities of antidote, and didn't die until Prince Felix Yusupov shot him.
Furthermore, the article on Achlorhydria mentions nothing about the condition's effect on potassium cyanide.
Someone much more knowledgeable (or eager to do research) should clarify this.
I contributed that bit about potassium cyanide - my source is a bit flimsy : it is what we were taught in medical school. I'm afraid I can't add anything to the glucose binding of potassium cyanide being the flaw in the poisoners' plan, and I wasn't able to find anything more about Rasputin's achlorhydria on the web.
But there is this BBC article about some recently unearthed papers which claim: The principle assassin, Prince Yussupov, shot Rasputin in the chest at point-blank range after wine and cakes, heavily laced with potassium cyanide, failed to kill the monk, say the history books. Then, as the prince bent over to look at the body, the formerly lifeless corpse rose and grabbed the prince in an unbreakable grip - or so the story goes.
But Radzinsky's book says that Yussupov may have deliberately fluffed the murder, because the transvestite prince was in love with the monk. He then invented the story of Rasputin rising from the dead to cover his tracks, and make himself look more heroic.