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'{{User:Xeno/header}}{{/header}}{{User:MiszaBot/config |archiveheader = {{talkarchivenav}} |counter = 17 |minthreadsleft = 0 |algo = old(48h) |archive = User talk:Xeno/Archive %(counter)d }}{{User:HBC Archive Indexerbot/OptIn|target=/Archive Index|mask=/Archive <#>|leading_zeros=0|indexhere=no|template= User:Xeno/Archive Index}} __TOC__ == Do not archive == {{anchor|Holding pen}} Threads in this subheader shall not be archived because [[Special:Contributions/MiszaBot III|my botservant]] will be confused by this [[21 December 2012|fake timestamp]]. –<font face="verdana" color="black">[[user:xeno|'''xeno''']]</font>[[user talk:xeno|<font color="black" face="verdana">^talk</font>]] 04:20, 21 December 2012 (UTC) === Standardize stub template to use {{tl|asbox}} === :''See [[Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/Xenobot 6.1]]'' ==== Stubs icons and Web accessibility ==== Hello. Since you are working on accessibility, could you [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(miscellaneous)#Stubs_icons_and_accessibility take a look a this proposal]? I see you also have Xenobot, so maybe you could help me. Thanks. [[User:Dodoïste|Dodoïste]] ([[User talk:Dodoïste|talk]]) 18:43, 4 July 2009 (UTC) :If you achieve consensus for this, let me know what you need done and I can see if Xenobot can perform these edits. –<font face="verdana" color="black">[[user:xeno|'''xeno''']]</font>[[user talk:xeno|<font color="black" face="verdana">^talk</font>]] 02:43, 5 July 2009 (UTC) ::Hello. Do you think there is enough consensus already ? Thanks for helping. :-) [[User:Dodoïste|Dodoïste]] ([[User talk:Dodoïste|talk]]) 20:01, 5 July 2009 (UTC) :::I'll take another look in the next day or so and file a BRFA if I think consensus exists. –<font face="verdana" color="black">[[user:xeno|'''xeno''']]</font>[[user talk:xeno|<font color="black" face="verdana">^talk</font>]] 15:45, 7 July 2009 (UTC) *{{takenote}} BRFA filed: [[Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/Xenobot 6.1]]. –<font face="verdana" color="black">[[user:xeno|'''xeno''']]</font>[[user talk:xeno|<font color="black" face="verdana">^talk</font>]] 18:15, 8 July 2009 (UTC) :[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Dodo%C3%AFste&diff=301035163&oldid=301035102 Re] You did great, everything is well explained and accurate. Thanks. :-) [[User:Dodoïste|Dodoïste]] ([[User talk:Dodoïste|talk]]) 18:38, 8 July 2009 (UTC) ::No problem. My bot thanks you for the work! =) –<font face="verdana" color="black">[[user:xeno|'''xeno''']]</font>[[user talk:xeno|<font color="black" face="verdana">^talk</font>]] 18:40, 8 July 2009 (UTC) :::Just as an update, the bot has completed two trials of [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&limit=34&target=Xenobot&offset=20090721144500 34] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&offset=20090725151515&limit=80&target=Xenobot 80 edits]. –<font face="verdana" color="black">[[user:xeno|'''xeno''']]</font>[[user talk:xeno|<font color="black" face="verdana">^talk</font>]] 20:19, 25 July 2009 (UTC) ::::Well done! I check the evolution of this pretty big task through my watchilst every day, and it seems to go on smoothly, so I am only observing for now. The english-speaking community is pretty dynamic and skillful. You guys are doing most of the work and discussions, and it allows me to prepare carefully the next improvements I would like to suggest. When this task will be completed, I will review the usability of the home page and a few important templates (such as [[Template:Navbox]]). I will also review the color contrast of the most used templates, such as [[Template:taxobox]] and other infoboxes. :-) [[User:Dodoïste|Dodoïste]] ([[User talk:Dodoïste|talk]]) 22:41, 25 July 2009 (UTC) :::::I'll do what I can when the time comes =) Incidentally, can you double check any stub using asbox and ensure the default alt text is working? P.S. See also [[bugzilla:19906]] (and vote for it). –<font face="verdana" color="black">[[user:xeno|'''xeno''']]</font>[[user talk:xeno|<font color="black" face="verdana">^talk</font>]] 22:51, 25 July 2009 (UTC) ::::::The HTML code produced by Mediawiki contains the proper alt text (<code><img alt="Stub icon" src="http://</code>... ), so it is working fine and it meets the W3C's requirements. I saw [[bugzilla:19906]] yesterday and voted for it. I also send an e-mail to the french accessibility expert working on the french Wiki, the one who introduced me to accessibility and usability, to ask him his opinion about this bug. I hope he will respond soon, but he doesn't always answer since he's busy enough already. Let's hope we'll be lucky. :-) [[User:Dodoïste|Dodoïste]] ([[User talk:Dodoïste|talk]]) 23:18, 25 July 2009 (UTC) ==== Add name paramater ==== Hi Xeno, just thought I'd float an idea by you. Might it be possible to add an extra parameter to those templates you are converting? Something along the lines of name=<name of template>. For example on [[Template:USAF-bio-stub]] you would have the additional parameter ''name=Template:USAF-bio-stub''. This would allow the navbar functionality I suggested at [[Template talk:Asbox]] and might well have other uses in the future. &mdash;&nbsp;Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 16:25, 31 July 2009 (UTC) *{{Doing}} Replied @ [[Template talk:Asbox#Navbar]]. –<font face="verdana" color="black">[[user:xeno|'''xeno''']]</font>[[user talk:xeno|<font color="black" face="verdana">^talk</font>]] 17:12, 31 July 2009 (UTC) ==== Error reports ==== :''Collapsed reports have been addressed. Please make new reports in a L5 header at the bottom of this section.'' {{hat|1=Interwiki in middle of stub code getting lost}} :*Your bot is sometimes removing <nowiki><noinclude></noinclude></nowiki> codes e.g. categories and interwiki links for templates. See [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template%3AHebrew-Bible-stub&diff=305753183&oldid=268303925 example here]. Mind you, it [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Japan-music-stub&diff=prev&oldid=305759196 left this one]. - [[User:Fayenatic london|Fayenatic]] [[User talk:Fayenatic london|(talk)]] 09:26, 3 August 2009 (UTC) ::This is occurring when the interwiki is (erroneously) placed up in the middle of the stub code. (Interwiki above Category:* stubs) However, I believe I have come up with an appropriate skip option; so it should not re-occur. Thanks for the note. –<font face="verdana" color="black">[[user:xeno|'''xeno''']]</font>[[user talk:xeno|<font color="black" face="verdana">^talk</font>]] 15:22, 3 August 2009 (UTC) :::Thanks for taking action, and for the award! - [[User:Fayenatic london|Fayenatic]] [[User talk:Fayenatic london|(talk)]] 17:38, 11 August 2009 (UTC) {{hab}} {{hat|1=Estimate number of pages seems low}} Your '''Estimated number of pages affected''' on [[Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/Xenobot 6.1]] seems a little off at 2,500+. It looks to me like there are over 10,000 stub templates. -- [[User:WOSlinker|WOSlinker]] ([[User talk:WOSlinker|talk]]) 22:02, 5 August 2009 (UTC) :Hm, I only counted the stubs linked on [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Stub types]] (including the culture subpage) and subtracted any that were already using asbox. How did you come to the conclusion there are 10,000 stub templates? Seems like a lot of rogues stub types! –<font face="verdana" color="black">[[user:xeno|'''xeno''']]</font>[[user talk:xeno|<font color="black" face="verdana">^talk</font>]] 22:04, 5 August 2009 (UTC) ::I used [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:WhatLinksHere/Wikipedia:Stub&namespace=10 Special:WhatLinksHere/Wikipedia:Stub] to find them. I've put the list of them over at '''[[User:WOSlinker/stublist]]'''. -- [[User:WOSlinker|WOSlinker]] ([[User talk:WOSlinker|talk]]) 22:17, 5 August 2009 (UTC) :::d'oh! Rogues abound. –<font face="verdana" color="black">[[user:xeno|'''xeno''']]</font>[[user talk:xeno|<font color="black" face="verdana">^talk</font>]] 00:07, 6 August 2009 (UTC) [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Xenobot/workspace&oldid=306308167 7082] not yet using asbox. –<font face="verdana" color="black">[[user:xeno|'''xeno''']]</font>[[user talk:xeno|<font color="black" face="verdana">^talk</font>]] 00:33, 6 August 2009 (UTC) :Just tried using [http://toolserver.org/~nikola/grep.php?pattern=-stub&lang=en&wiki=wikipedia&ns=10] and there is actually more than 10,000. Just under 13,000 actually. -- [[User:WOSlinker|WOSlinker]] ([[User talk:WOSlinker|talk]]) 07:17, 6 August 2009 (UTC) {{hab}} {{hat|1=Included non-stub categories confusing bot}} {{resolved|1=Mark 8/8/9 as the day I learned about one of my bots' seven deadly sins: [[Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser/Regular_expression#Greed|greed]]. –<font face="verdana" color="black">[[user:xeno|'''xeno''']]</font>[[user talk:xeno|<font color="black" face="verdana">^talk</font>]] 20:41, 8 August 2009 (UTC)}} I'm not sure what's wrong, but your bot is making some type of error. All of the X-OR-geo-stub templates ([[Template:JacksonOR-geo-stub|like this one]]) were 'standardized' and don't work anymore. For example, see [[Copper, Jackson County, Oregon|this page]] (or any Oregon stub page) at the bottom. Thanks, '''''<font style="font-variant:small-caps;">[[User:Little Mountain 5|<font color="black">Little</font>]][[User talk:Little Mountain 5|<font color="red">Mountain</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Little Mountain 5|<font color="blue">5</font>]]</font>''''' 15:52, 6 August 2009 (UTC) : Just noticed this too (but great scoop, LM5 :) Here's [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:LaneOR-geo-stub&diff=306410491&oldid=301587971 one example] of one of the "bad edits." -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 16:02, 6 August 2009 (UTC) *Thank both, for the notes. These diverge from any kind of stubs I've seen before (in that they sort the stubs and the template both into another, non-stub, category) which is why the bot handled them poorly. Checking to see if any other states are affected by this... –<font face="verdana" color="black">[[user:xeno|'''xeno''']]</font>[[user talk:xeno|<font color="black" face="verdana">^talk</font>]] 16:15, 6 August 2009 (UTC) :: I don't think the stub template itself should put the article directly into the county category; rather, the stub-county category should be within the county category. This may be an error in the templates as they existed when your bot encountered them. However, I'm not really an expert in stub categorization, so my understanding may not be correct. May also want to check with {{User|YBG}}, who created these stubs. -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 16:39, 6 August 2009 (UTC) :::It does appear to be somewhat of a local anomaly. Only Oregon county stub templates and two [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:NorthCarolina-sports-venue-stub&diff=prev&oldid=306426890 sports] [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Florida-sports-venue-stub&diff=prev&oldid=306429651 venues] so far have been identified by my error-correction parsing. But I'm glad this was pointed out so I can add a new skip criteria and look at this in greater detail after I finish all the 'standard' stubs. –<font face="verdana" color="black">[[user:xeno|'''xeno''']]</font>[[user talk:xeno|<font color="black" face="verdana">^talk</font>]] 16:44, 6 August 2009 (UTC) :::Yeah, I [{{fullurl:Template:JacksonOR-geo-stub|diff=301274452&oldid=299866357}} added] those categories about a month ago, because a lot of the articles with these templates transcluded onto them did not have the categories. I could easily remove them if they are a problem, (which they seem to be), but right now I'm leaving for a vacation and won't have internet access until next Monday UTC. Thanks, '''''<font style="font-variant:small-caps;">[[User:Little Mountain 5|<font color="black">Little</font>]][[User talk:Little Mountain 5|<font color="red">Mountain</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Little Mountain 5|<font color="blue">5</font>]]</font>''''' 17:23, 6 August 2009 (UTC) ::::Not a problem, ''per se'', I can code around it. The bot got confused because the templates themselves are categorized into the same category with a template-only sortkey. (See the <code><nowiki><noinclude| </noinclude></nowiki></code> that you must have mimicked from the Category:* stubs part). Instead, non-stub categories included with a stub template should probably be wrapped with 'includeonly' so the templates don't get sorted into them; though, I think it would be better for them to be hard-coded onto the members so that when they graduate from stub they remain in the category. –<font face="verdana" color="black">[[user:xeno|'''xeno''']]</font>[[user talk:xeno|<font color="black" face="verdana">^talk</font>]] 17:28, 6 August 2009 (UTC) :::::Okay, hard-coding will be my next project, unless someone else gets to them first. :) Thanks, '''''<font style="font-variant:small-caps;">[[User:Little Mountain 5|<font color="black">Little</font>]][[User talk:Little Mountain 5|<font color="red">Mountain</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Little Mountain 5|<font color="blue">5</font>]]</font>''''' 17:36, 6 August 2009 (UTC) &larr; So it turns out [[Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser/Regular_expression#Greed|my bot was being greedy]]. {{Fixed}} [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&offset=20090808204000&target=Xenobot&limit=30]. Thanks for the indirect regex lesson =) –<font face="verdana" color="black">[[user:xeno|'''xeno''']]</font>[[user talk:xeno|<font color="black" face="verdana">^talk</font>]] 20:41, 8 August 2009 (UTC) Stub templates should never do any non-stub categorisation - for this will be lost when the stub-template is removed from the article. ''[[User:Rich Farmbrough|Rich]] [[User talk:Rich Farmbrough|Farmbrough]]'', 21:33, 6 August 2009 (UTC). :Yea, that's what I meant above about them being hard-coded so they remain when the articles graduate. Though, I think it was more of a bandaid that stayed on too long. –<font face="verdana" color="black">[[user:xeno|'''xeno''']]</font>[[user talk:xeno|<font color="black" face="verdana">^talk</font>]] 21:35, 6 August 2009 (UTC) {{hab}} {{hat|1=Peculiar code in original}} {{resolved|1=User reported error: [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:US-keyboardist-stub&diff=306140604&oldid=181521142] matched criteria <code><nowiki>(?s)\{\{asbox.*\<noinclude\>.* = .*\}\}</nowiki></code> found 1 page ([http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template%3ATexas-sports-venue-stub&diff=306885948&oldid=306598543 fixed]) of last 6221 edits prior to [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&offset=20090808234111&target=Xenobot] matching error criteria. Thanks again! –<font face="verdana" color="black">[[user:xeno|'''xeno''']]</font>[[user talk:xeno|<font color="black" face="verdana">^talk</font>]] 00:41, 9 August 2009 (UTC)}} Don't know if it has just happened with {{tl|US-keyboardist-stub}} or if it has haapened elsewhere but your bot appears to have broken this template. I have reverted it, may be you could look to see what the problem was. [[User:Waacstats|Waacstats]] ([[User talk:Waacstats|talk]]) 22:30, 8 August 2009 (UTC) :I have learned a new trick since August 5, so my bot will not make that mistake again ([http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:US-keyboardist-stub&diff=306869536&oldid=306867113 proof] ;>). However, I will examine this failure and see if I can do a search for other similar errors. Thank you for the note. –<font face="verdana" color="black">[[user:xeno|'''xeno''']]</font>[[user talk:xeno|<font color="black" face="verdana">^talk</font>]] 22:39, 8 August 2009 (UTC) ::The reason was a user inserted some peculiar code: [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:US-keyboardist-stub&diff=98932706&oldid=42918203], which confused the bot. I checked their contribs, and they only inserted this code once. I'll run a check just in case, but I think this is case closed. Appreciate the catch! –<font face="verdana" color="black">[[user:xeno|'''xeno''']]</font>[[user talk:xeno|<font color="black" face="verdana">^talk</font>]] 23:07, 8 August 2009 (UTC) {{hab}} {{hat|1=border<nowiki>|</nowiki> appearing before px in pix field}} Note this edit by Xenobot: [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Scotland-stub&diff=307088037&oldid=296295629] to a stub template affected the flag image size. -- [[User:OlEnglish|<font size="5">&oelig;</font>]][[User talk:OlEnglish|^&trade;]] 04:05, 10 August 2009 (UTC) ::Found another edit error by xenobot here: [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template%3AIndia-gov-stub&diff=307057327&oldid=257728357] Might want to fix this. [[User:Nasa-verve|Nasa-verve]] ([[User talk:Nasa-verve|talk]]) 04:07, 10 August 2009 (UTC) :::This is happening when the border came before the px. I've written a fix for that and will run a check to see if any other articles are affected by this. Thanks both. –<font face="verdana" color="black">[[user:xeno|'''xeno''']]</font>[[user talk:xeno|<font color="black" face="verdana">^talk</font>]] 04:08, 10 August 2009 (UTC) ::::Several other stubs were showing huge flags, {{fixed}}. Thanks again for the reports. –<font face="verdana" color="black">[[user:xeno|'''xeno''']]</font>[[user talk:xeno|<font color="black" face="verdana">^talk</font>]] 04:35, 10 August 2009 (UTC) Broken markup in an edit by Xenobot as {{tl|NewZealand-school-stub}}. I've reverted the edit rather than try to work out the proper syntax.-<font face="cursive" color="#808080">[[User talk:gadfium|gadfium]]</font> 06:14, 10 August 2009 (UTC) :Thanks. It came up with a handful of others with similar errors. –<font face="verdana" color="black">[[user:xeno|'''xeno''']]</font>[[user talk:xeno|<font color="black" face="verdana">^talk</font>]] 06:18, 10 August 2009 (UTC) ::All {{fixed}} , I believe. –<font face="verdana" color="black">[[user:xeno|'''xeno''']]</font>[[user talk:xeno|<font color="black" face="verdana">^talk</font>]] 06:34, 10 August 2009 (UTC) {{hab}} {{hat|1=Miscategorizations}} It appears that {{user|Xenobot}} has made an error while standardizing some stub templates. See for instance [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Netherlands-footyclub-stub&diff=prev&oldid=307076782 this edit]. The bot omitted one word in a category. As a result, just about 400 articles and templates were added to [[:Category:European football club]] instead of [[:Category:European football club stubs]]. [[Special:Contributions/94.212.31.237|94.212.31.237]] ([[User talk:94.212.31.237|talk]]) 21:30, 10 August 2009 (UTC) :This is a [[layer 8]] error in the parsing of stubs that use "icons". Thank you for pointing it out, I will have this fixed shortly. –<font face="verdana" color="black">[[user:xeno|'''xeno''']]</font>[[user talk:xeno|<font color="black" face="verdana">^talk</font>]] 11:52, 11 August 2009 (UTC) ::It seems to have happened only in those with two categories (on the "category1=" line), which is a relief. I found most of the problems in [[Special:WantedCategories]]. –<font face="verdana" color="black">[[user:xeno|'''xeno''']]</font>[[user talk:xeno|<font color="black" face="verdana">^talk</font>]] 12:57, 11 August 2009 (UTC) :::{{doing}} Checking through Xenobot's ~10k contribs for more of this error. –<font face="verdana" color="black">[[user:xeno|'''xeno''']]</font>[[user talk:xeno|<font color="black" face="verdana">^talk</font>]] 13:40, 11 August 2009 (UTC) ::::{{Fixed}} 194 errors. [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:94.212.31.237&diff=prev&oldid=307366955 Thank you] so much for catching this! –<font face="verdana" color="black">[[user:xeno|'''xeno''']]</font>[[user talk:xeno|<font color="black" face="verdana">^talk</font>]] 14:19, 11 August 2009 (UTC) {{hab}} ==== Has Xenobot finished on the Stubs? ==== Has Xenobot finished on the Stubs or are you just talking a well deserved break? There's still [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:WhatLinksHere/Wikipedia:Perfect_stub_article&namespace=10&limit=1200 quite a few] out there. -- [[User:WOSlinker|WOSlinker]] ([[User talk:WOSlinker|talk]]) 06:19, 13 August 2009 (UTC) :I think there's just shy of 2400 left. I try to take a couple days off in between large runs for errors to pop up and work themselves out. I'll probably go in for the final countdown tomorrow/over the weekend. –<font face="verdana" color="black">[[user:xeno|'''xeno''']]</font>[[user talk:xeno|<font color="black" face="verdana">^talk</font>]] 12:17, 13 August 2009 (UTC) === ''Questions from...'' === {{User talk:BlazerKnight/adoption}} {{User talk:Tim1357/adoption}} == Signature == This is hopefully the final time I'll resurrect this. I've recreated my [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Thejadefalcon/sandbox sandbox] to have all of the potential colours shown. I've given up any hope of trying to decide. Can you narrow down the list for me, getting rid of colours that don't show up all that greatly on your screen/don't look green? <!-- Can you not archive this please? --> --[[User:Thejadefalcon|Thejadefalcon]] ([[User talk:Thejadefalcon|talk]]) 10:52, 8 August 2009 (UTC) :I think 13, 14 and 22 would be nice together. –<font face="verdana" color="black">[[user:xeno|'''xeno''']]</font>[[user talk:xeno|<font color="black" face="verdana">^talk</font>]] 12:37, 8 August 2009 (UTC) ::e.g. - <font color="#009000">[[User:Thejadefalcon|Thejadefalcon]]</font><font color="#00A86B">[[User talk:Thejadefalcon|^{''Sing your song''}]]</font><font color="#2E8B57">[[Special:Contributions/Thejadefalcon|_{''The bird's seeds''}]]</font> :::Hey, thanks. Idiot that is me, I hadn't even considered having alternate colours. I think I prefer this one though, now that I think about it. :::<font color="#009000">[[User:Thejadefalcon|Thejadefalcon]]</font><font color="#00FF00">[[User talk:Thejadefalcon|^{''Sing your song''}]]</font><font color="#00A550">[[Special:Contributions/Thejadefalcon|_{''The bird's seeds''}]]</font> :::Or is that middle one too bright? Thanks for your help. Just... err.. is there any way to cut down on the code? Looks overly long to me. --[[User:Thejadefalcon|Thejadefalcon]] ([[User talk:Thejadefalcon|talk]]) 15:39, 11 August 2009 (UTC) ::::It's slightly on the bright side... Not much you can do to cut down on the code, no. It's not that bad. –<font face="verdana" color="black">[[user:xeno|'''xeno''']]</font>[[user talk:xeno|<font color="black" face="verdana">^talk</font>]] 15:40, 11 August 2009 (UTC) :::::So, this is the final then? :::::<font color="#009000">[[User:Thejadefalcon|Thejadefalcon]]</font><font color="#03C03C">[[User talk:Thejadefalcon|^{''Sing your song''}]]</font><font color="#00A550">[[Special:Contributions/Thejadefalcon|_{''The bird's seeds''}]]</font> :::::Now, all I do is copy-paste it into the Signature section in my preferences. I read something about raw signatures somewhere, do I need to do anything for that (if mine is raw). Finally, in the signature area, it says "Also, please use & # 1 2 4 ; (spaced out) or <nowiki><nowiki></nowiki> tags for the pipe ("|") character; it can otherwise cause templates to fail." You, though, have | in your signature. Is this rule something that appeared after your signature was made, or does it appear normal on an edit page regardless? :::::Meep! Had to add in nowiki tags around the nowiki thing or I burnt the rest of the page. Thank God I previewed. --[[User:Thejadefalcon|Thejadefalcon]] ([[User talk:Thejadefalcon|talk]]) 15:51, 11 August 2009 (UTC) ::::::That caution is for people that actually want to use the pipe character in their sig... I've [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Tog-fancysig&curid=1510726&diff=307398637&oldid=302573499 modified] the message as its confusing. Yes, check off "raw sig" (I think it's called something else now). Sig looks good! –<font face="verdana" color="black">[[user:xeno|'''xeno''']]</font>[[user talk:xeno|<font color="black" face="verdana">^talk</font>]] 17:38, 11 August 2009 (UTC) &larr; The only thing I can see is "Sign my name exactly as shown" (but I'm pretty sure that was once something about raw signatures. Can't find any other likley thing in my preferences. Should I tick this? --[[User:Thejadefalcon|Thejadefalcon]] ([[User talk:Thejadefalcon|talk]]) 10:18, 12 August 2009 (UTC) :Yes, that's been renamed from the "Raw signature" signature option. The help page needs changed. –<font face="verdana" color="black">[[user:xeno|'''xeno''']]</font>[[user talk:xeno|<font color="black" face="verdana">^talk</font>]] 12:15, 12 August 2009 (UTC) ::(whistles) Four off from the character limit. Thanks for everything (and sorry for constantly resurrecting this topic)! --<font color="#009000">[[User:Thejadefalcon|Thejadefalcon]]</font><font color="#03C03C">[[User talk:Thejadefalcon|^{''Sing your song''}]]</font><font color="#00A550">[[Special:Contributions/Thejadefalcon|_{''The bird's seeds''}]]</font> 15:39, 12 August 2009 (UTC) :::Heh. No problem. Looks good. –<font face="verdana" color="black">[[user:xeno|'''xeno''']]</font>[[user talk:xeno|<font color="black" face="verdana">^talk</font>]] 15:40, 12 August 2009 (UTC) ::::One final question. You only have a single - before your name instead of --. Others have none. Is this simply because they merely type out <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> or <nowiki>~~~</nowiki> (is there actually a difference between those?) or can I change something to do that when I click the handy-dandy signature button? --<font color="#009000">[[User:Thejadefalcon|Thejadefalcon]]</font><font color="#03C03C">[[User talk:Thejadefalcon|^{''Sing your song''}]]</font><font color="#00A550">[[Special:Contributions/Thejadefalcon|_{''The bird's seeds''}]]</font> 15:49, 12 August 2009 (UTC) :::::I have the dash coded into my signature in the preferences. I don't use the button. I bet you can reprogram it somehow. –<font face="verdana" color="black">[[user:xeno|'''xeno''']]</font>[[user talk:xeno|<font color="black" face="verdana">^talk</font>]] 15:56, 12 August 2009 (UTC) ::::::xeno, I just spent two weeks settling on the ''colour'' for my signature. What do you think the chances are of me being able to reprogram the button? :P --<font color="#009000">[[User:Thejadefalcon|Thejadefalcon]]</font><font color="#03C03C">[[User talk:Thejadefalcon|^{''Sing your song''}]]</font><font color="#00A550">[[Special:Contributions/Thejadefalcon|_{''The bird's seeds''}]]</font> 16:01, 12 August 2009 (UTC) :::::::[[WP:No deadline|No deadline]]! –<font face="verdana" color="black">[[user:xeno|'''xeno''']]</font>[[user talk:xeno|<font color="black" face="verdana">^talk</font>]] 16:03, 12 August 2009 (UTC) &larr; There's no deadline, but then there's that annoying thing called life... and lack of teh intarwebs. --<font color="#009000">[[User:Thejadefalcon|Thejadefalcon]]</font><font color="#03C03C">[[User talk:Thejadefalcon|^{''Sing your song''}]]</font><font color="#00A550">[[Special:Contributions/Thejadefalcon|_{''The bird's seeds''}]]</font> 16:07, 12 August 2009 (UTC) == sighs == would it have really harmed the project for more editors to see the template and comment on it. i deleted once and you twice. if many editors agree, you should have awaited another's showing up. (sheesh -- we NON- edit warriors lose when only we're the only ones who decline to edit war.... where's a police officer when ya need one!!!) ;^) [[User:Justmeherenow|<span style="font-family:Mistral"> '''↜J'''us'''t </span><span style="font-family:Mistral;font-size:x-small"> M<u>&thinsp;E&nbsp;</u></span><span style="font-family:Mistral">h'''''er''e&#8202;''','''&#8202;now</span>]] 18:26, 10 August 2009 (UTC) :Yes - it looks ridiculous. A pair is not a series (ok, I know technically it is, but let's be reasonable) and internal links serve this purpose to direct readers to the other articles. It also gives undue weight to the arrest incident on his bio. <small>By the way, I waited until another user [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Henry_Louis_Gates_arrest_incident&curid=23725791&diff=307207724&oldid=307207086 reverted one of the pair] before reverting the other one; to give others a chance to weigh in.</small> –<font face="verdana" color="black">[[user:xeno|'''xeno''']]</font>[[user talk:xeno|<font color="black" face="verdana">^talk</font>]] 18:29, 10 August 2009 (UTC) :So you only edit warred on one article instead of two? <small>By the way, I know this isn't a requirement, but just a word to the wise: in the future, linking someone's well-wrought template and mentioning [''emended: on the talkpage''] your rationale for its bold deletion might keep this colleague's feathers less unruffled, too.</small>[[User:Justmeherenow|<span style="font-family:Mistral"> '''↜J'''us'''t </span><span style="font-family:Mistral;font-size:x-small"> M<u>&thinsp;E&nbsp;</u></span><span style="font-family:Mistral">h'''''er''e&#8202;''','''&#8202;now</span>]] 18:45, 10 August 2009 (UTC) ::I waited until the template was removed from one of the two in the "pair" (I am loathe to call it a series, because it's really not) and then removed it from the other for consistency. I shall not remove it again should you choose to put it back up, but I would advise against it and further bet a year's Wikipedian administrators' wage that the template will be deleted. <small>Sorry for not linking the template in the edit summary, I was short on room and wanted to explain why I was removing it.</small> –<font face="verdana" color="black">[[user:xeno|'''xeno''']]</font>[[user talk:xeno|<font color="black" face="verdana">^talk</font>]] 18:47, 10 August 2009 (UTC) :::No problem. (Anyway, oops! I'd meant to write "mention on talk." In any case, ''no harm,'' as Wikidemon was gracious enough to have done so. ^{''':^)'''} (PS How much are admins paid these days? ^{''''';''^)'''} )[[User:Justmeherenow|<span style="font-family:Mistral"> '''↜J'''us'''t </span><span style="font-family:Mistral;font-size:x-small"> M<u>&thinsp;E&nbsp;</u></span><span style="font-family:Mistral">h'''''er''e&#8202;''','''&#8202;now</span>]] 18:56, 10 August 2009 (UTC) ::::Oh, I see what you mean. Yes, that would've probably been a good idea. Mea culpa. How much are we paid? Can't tell you, [[Non-disclosure agreement|NDA]] and all. It's juicy tho! I promise. You should [[Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Justmeherenow|apply]] ;p –<font face="verdana" color="black">[[user:xeno|'''xeno''']]</font>[[user talk:xeno|<font color="black" face="verdana">^talk</font>]] 18:57, 10 August 2009 (UTC) :::::Thx (for the flattery: I can barely contribute a semi-grammatical sentence!)[[User:Justmeherenow|<span style="font-family:Mistral"> '''↜J'''us'''t </span><span style="font-family:Mistral;font-size:x-small"> M<u>&thinsp;E&nbsp;</u></span><span style="font-family:Mistral">h'''''er''e&#8202;''','''&#8202;now</span>]] 20:32, 10 August 2009 (UTC) ::::::I'd love it if probation was adopted project-wide (along the theory of a culture of strong editorial ethics among contributors, helping each other edit in that mode, helping newbies learn to do so and chiding those that stray).... ::::::Xeno, as an admin, what is your opinion wrt the folowing? Supposing the ANI thread's closing admin doesn't discern a consensus: since I'm in favor of it, the three options I can think of for me to pursue in that case would be ::::::# ('''B'''old) just go ahead and try re-templating just to see if it might well hold? ::::::# ('''R'''vt) drop the matter, figuring that a mixed consensus should default to not trying to retemplate its talkpage as the article's being under article probation? or ::::::# ('''D'''iscuss) post a poll on the topic on [[Gatesgate]]'s talkpage (''eg'' similar to the "in/out, arrest-photos poll" that's going on there at the bottom of the discussion page there at the moment)? ::::::Which way would would serve "me" best (that is, <u>the project</u>, I mean, of course!), in this scenario, for me to proceed, would you think? [[User:Justmeherenow|<span style="font-family:Mistral"> '''↜J'''us'''t </span><span style="font-family:Mistral;font-size:x-small"> M<u>&thinsp;E&nbsp;</u></span><span style="font-family:Mistral">h'''''er''e&#8202;''','''&#8202;now</span>]] 12:48, 11 August 2009 (UTC) :::::::I still think those kind of things should be placed by an admin willing to enforce it. I haven't had a chance to review the ANI thread again, I'm putting out a forestfire I made with my bot. Given that I was the one that removed it, I don't have a problem with you boldly putting it back. I thought it was a far more restrictive probation. Thanks for the note. –<font face="verdana" color="black">[[user:xeno|'''xeno''']]</font>[[user talk:xeno|<font color="black" face="verdana">^talk</font>]] 12:54, 11 August 2009 (UTC) ::::::::Thank you very much for your response, xeno.[[User:Justmeherenow|<span style="font-family:Mistral"> '''↜J'''us'''t </span><span style="font-family:Mistral;font-size:x-small"> M<u>&thinsp;E&nbsp;</u></span><span style="font-family:Mistral">h'''''er''e&#8202;''','''&#8202;now</span>]] 17:32, 11 August 2009 (UTC) == Ward3001 left the wikipedia == I really feel a little sad about it I wish I could wish him well. I will send you a private message on this. <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Dela Rabadilla|Dela Rabadilla]] ([[User talk:Dela Rabadilla|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Dela Rabadilla|contribs]]) 01:55, 11 August 2009 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> :I guess we can only hope it's a temporary break. –<font face="verdana" color="black">[[user:xeno|'''xeno''']]</font>[[user talk:xeno|<font color="black" face="verdana">^talk</font>]] 12:56, 11 August 2009 (UTC) :: I dunno. I was feeling really personally and professionally attacked a lot of the time, too, and Ward was taking much more of the heat from that than I was. The whole discussion was very hurtful in a lot of ways -- the undertext is really a turf war about epistemology and legitimacy of an entire profession. As a newbie, I'm not quite sure why I should stick around after being clearly told to keep out, either, other than that I'm terminally stubborn. But it sure leaves a sour taste in my mouth. [[User:Mirafra|Mirafra]] ([[User talk:Mirafra|talk]]) 02:43, 12 August 2009 (UTC) :::Editors refuse to accept image suppression. They are not refusing to allow you to edit the article or suggest improvements on the talk page. You say you cannot do so for it violates your ethics and state law. Since editors have not been convinced by the arguments to suppress the information, if you feel you cannot contribute to the article, the logical thing to do would be to withdraw. This isn't someone telling you to "go away", but it has become increasingly clear that the arguments for harm prevention are not outweighing the arguments for information provision. :::Your contributions would be valued elsewhere on the 'pedia. –<font face="verdana" color="black">[[user:xeno|'''xeno''']]</font>[[user talk:xeno|<font color="black" face="verdana">^talk</font>]] 12:46, 12 August 2009 (UTC) :::: Oh, I'm definitely not going to touch any of the test pages, crappy as they may be. I've made my points as vigorously and politely as I could, and it's clear that this wasn't sufficient, and that's done. I appreciate your encouragement to write on other topics, but I'm not sure. I just can't decide whether it's worth my while to be part of a community that is so openly hostile to my life's work -- the anti-psychology nastiness, having nothing to do with the specific question of test security, was pretty thick, and now the calls for retaliation are just mean. Sticking around feels a little like playing pathetically on the edge of the playground and hoping the bullies will maybe tolerate me. I'll probably do a little and see how I feel in a few weeks, but this experience really has changed my whole view of WP. [[User:Mirafra|Mirafra]] ([[User talk:Mirafra|talk]]) 13:37, 12 August 2009 (UTC) :::::This is what happens when worlds collide... I'd advise dropping the 'bullies' verbiage. You have to remember you're arriving at the apex of a debate that has been running for 3 years. –<font face="verdana" color="black">[[user:xeno|'''xeno''']]</font>[[user talk:xeno|<font color="black" face="verdana">^talk</font>]] 13:41, 12 August 2009 (UTC) ::Well, he complained when without knowing the consensus rule, I removed the image when there was a disclaimer to allow viewing it. He thought it was best to leave it like that, so in a way I help cause this whole ordeal. I just added to the Rfq and I think the position has merit. Xeno, please let me know what you think. --[[User:Dela Rabadilla|Dela Rabadilla]] ([[User talk:Dela Rabadilla|talk]]) 04:06, 12 August 2009 (UTC) :::I won't be participating directly in the endorsement of individual statements. Ward's accepting and defense of the compromise that was in place at the time is admirable. I do hope he returns to edit, perhaps recusing himself from the Rorschach article in line with my comments above to Mirafra. –<font face="verdana" color="black">[[user:xeno|'''xeno''']]</font>[[user talk:xeno|<font color="black" face="verdana">^talk</font>]] 12:54, 12 August 2009 (UTC) ::::I'd also like to add my appreciation of Ward's efforts and my dismay at seeing him apparently being forced to retire. It was largely his careful and patient argument which swayed me towards his side of the dispute. I too hope he returns soon. I also agree with Mirafra's comments above. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 12:17, 14 August 2009 (UTC) == ED == why are you deleting talk page comments? now nobody will know why it was protected without looking through the history. and i wont know why smashville reverted my edits.--[[User:Cddoughty|Cddoughty]] ([[User talk:Cddoughty|talk]]) 20:16, 11 August 2009 (UTC) :Cut it out. The naive newbie troll technique is really old hat. –<font face="verdana" color="black">[[user:xeno|'''xeno''']]</font>[[user talk:xeno|<font color="black" face="verdana">^talk</font>]] 20:17, 11 August 2009 (UTC) ::Wait, what? His contributions only list one day. Maybe he is a newbie. Or am I totally missing something? --[[User:Thejadefalcon|Thejadefalcon]] ([[User talk:Thejadefalcon|talk]]) 10:14, 12 August 2009 (UTC) :::[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Encyclopedia_Dramatica&oldid=307424866#Why_is_this_protected.3F]. –<font face="verdana" color="black">[[user:xeno|'''xeno''']]</font>[[user talk:xeno|<font color="black" face="verdana">^talk</font>]] 12:18, 12 August 2009 (UTC) ::::Well, frankly, if ever a target was ''deserving'' of vandalisation... *fumes at the memories of ED* However, I see what you mean. --<font color="#009000">[[User:Thejadefalcon|Thejadefalcon]]</font><font color="#03C03C">[[User talk:Thejadefalcon|^{''Sing your song''}]]</font><font color="#00A550">[[Special:Contributions/Thejadefalcon|_{''The bird's seeds''}]]</font> 15:45, 12 August 2009 (UTC) == Opinion on possible legal threats == I would like your opinion on the legal discussion at [[User_talk:Jmh649/Suppression_of_content#Legal]]. The initial comment on the main page was [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Jmh649/Suppression_of_content&diff=307433308&oldid=307430929 clearly perceived as a legal threat] by the talk page's owner, and as I say in my last two comments, I don't really see how saying "but, oh, it's know actually ''me'' who's bringing you to court" diminishes any [[chilling effect]]s that [[Wikipedia:THREAT#Rationale_for_the_policy|the policy]] talks about. I'd prefer some input from you rather than bringing it straight to ANI. --[[User:LjL|LjL]] ([[User talk:LjL|talk]]) 14:20, 12 August 2009 (UTC) :<s>Have you reviewed the comments at [[User talk:Mex-psych]] ?</s> <small>(Oh there is more)</small> I'll take a look. –<font face="verdana" color="black">[[user:xeno|'''xeno''']]</font>[[user talk:xeno|<font color="black" face="verdana">^talk</font>]] 14:22, 12 August 2009 (UTC) ::Mex-psych's talkpage had escaped my watchlist, thanks for pointing it out. Right now, though, I'm more concerned with Faustian's insistence that editors will be liable because something "is bound to happen", and statements like that, than Mex-psych's original possibly good-faith comment. --[[User:LjL|LjL]] ([[User talk:LjL|talk]]) 14:25, 12 August 2009 (UTC) :::While great care has been made to avoid actually making an actual legal threat(keeping everything hypothetical and such), I would say those postings about possible legal repercussions are designed to intimidate in favor of their point of view. If not a violation of the letter of NLT then for certain the spirit. I don't think it is actionable at this point, but it does need to stop. [[User talk:Chillum|<font color='#427811'>'''Chillum'''</font>]] 14:31, 12 August 2009 (UTC) :::I think it's best for Slim Virgin to take a look, she's our new neutral admin. I've become too entangled in this. –<font face="verdana" color="black">[[user:xeno|'''xeno''']]</font>[[user talk:xeno|<font color="black" face="verdana">^talk</font>]] 14:45, 12 August 2009 (UTC) ::::I didn't actually mean to ask you to ''do'' something, though, merely for your opinion. --[[User:LjL|LjL]] ([[User talk:LjL|talk]]) 17:35, 12 August 2009 (UTC) :::::I think editors should stick to editing and let the lawyers deal with potential legal issues. As Chillum noted, editors should be cautious when choosing to highlight potential legal issues to avoid violating [[WP:NLT]] in letter or spirit. –<font face="verdana" color="black">[[user:xeno|'''xeno''']]</font>[[user talk:xeno|<font color="black" face="verdana">^talk</font>]] 17:39, 12 August 2009 (UTC) FWIW, I didn't read (or intend myself) any intent of legal threat. I think the point of the discussion was to point out what the editors involved thought was a realistic possibility, that someone else who perceived WP as having caused harm might well sue on grounds other than copyvio. [[User:Mirafra|Mirafra]] ([[User talk:Mirafra|talk]]) 18:09, 12 August 2009 (UTC) :That's exactly why I brought that up.[[User:Faustian|Faustian]] ([[User talk:Faustian|talk]]) 18:12, 12 August 2009 (UTC) :America is a pretty litigious society. People get sued for all kinds of reasons. However, the hypothesis that someone might trace something all the way back to James seems a little far fetched. Why not trace it back further to the person who uploaded the images to the commons? Or to the person who made them available for scanning? Or to the person that reverted the person who tried to delete the gallery? –<font face="verdana" color="black">[[user:xeno|'''xeno''']]</font>[[user talk:xeno|<font color="black" face="verdana">^talk</font>]] 18:15, 12 August 2009 (UTC) ::He's the one who put it on the wikiedia page and who basically took ownership of the act through all his interviews. He's also put up material for other tests onto their respective pages. There is all sorts of potential for lawsuits other than copyright based on what James and wikipedia have doing. I was just pointing that out. I don't know how farfetched all this is. You have an explicit warning form the organizations representing te field that created those tests that the widespread dissemination of the test material (cheat shees, questions and answers) caused (in their words) "concrete harm" to the general public. Despite this James posted the test material on wikipedia anyways. Wikipedia kept the test materials up. It seems to me that they would each be liable in civil lawsuits. One of the tests James and Wikipedia have compromised is very often used to check for the effects of mild head injury, often in cases involving whether someone can go back to work after a consussion. People such as pilots or bus drivers for example may be motivated to cheat so they can continue to work (this is actually quite ironic given that James has publicly stated that his grandfather cheated on an eye exam so he could drive despite having impaired vision, risking the lives of other motorists). If God forbid something bad were to happen and a compromised test was involved it seems rather likely that someone would sue. A bus driver was driving after a head injury because he got cleared based on testing that he cheated on thanks to having the test's cheat sheet placed on wikipedia. e caused an accident, and the vicitms sue. I was just pointing out that legal problems other than copyright could be involved.[[User:Faustian|Faustian]] ([[User talk:Faustian|talk]]) 18:48, 12 August 2009 (UTC) ::: See, I'm not worried about James. He can do whatever he wants. If he gets sued, that's entirely his problem as far as I care. What I'm concerned is that Wikipedia itself could get sued. Disclaimers don't mean a hill of beans. [[User:Mirafra|Mirafra]] ([[User talk:Mirafra|talk]]) 18:50, 12 August 2009 (UTC) :::(at both) I suggest you contact Mike Godwin directly at his talk page or via email regarding this concern. He ''is'' a lawyer and one of the few people who can actually cause things to happen on Wikipedia if he feels there is undue legal liability. I'm sure James can retain counsel if he feels he has opened himself up to legal liability. I don't think it should be brought up again on article, user, or project talk pages, per the previously highlighted section of [[WP:NLT]]. –<font face="verdana" color="black">[[user:xeno|'''xeno''']]</font>[[user talk:xeno|<font color="black" face="verdana">^talk</font>]] 18:56, 12 August 2009 (UTC) ::::All of these sound like legal threats to me... Xeno is right though. I think I can handle it. Please though keep it off Wikipedia. If you wish to go after me all the best of luck. As for you arguments of harm find some evidence better than that of expert opinion.[[User:Jmh649|<span style="color:#0000f1">'''Doc James'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Jmh649|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Jmh649|contribs]] · [[Special:EmailUser/Jmh649|email]]) 05:12, 14 August 2009 (UTC) == RfH == I wondered if I could request your help. There is a sockpuppet accusation going on on my page and wondered if you could check it out and provide a neutral party opinion. Thanks. --<font color="green">[[User:Scythre|Scythre]]</font>^{<font color="red">[[User talk:Scythre|Talk]]</font>}_{<font color="blue">[[Special:Contributions/Scythre|Contribs]]</font>} 21:50, 12 August 2009 (UTC) :Agree with the others. Tag the account as alternate and abandon it if you want. –<font face="verdana" color="black">[[user:xeno|'''xeno''']]</font>[[user talk:xeno|<font color="black" face="verdana">^talk</font>]] 23:12, 12 August 2009 (UTC) == Literaturegeek == I've talked to several administrators about Literaturegeek's continued uncivil behaviour after arbitration.[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nja247#help_with_Literaturegeek] Nja247 suggested your name. I can document it all if you are willing to intervene. I don't need action taken for past transgressions, but I do want this behaviour to stop at some point. That can be done through a warning, sanction, or some sort of process that gets her moving in the right direction. It really doesn't matter how it is done, as long as it stops. I am willing to wait for progress, but I want an administrator to commit to a plan of action. Either that or point me in the right direction so that this problem can be resolved. She doesn't want to take part in any process with me and she doesn't believe she is personalizing the talk pages.[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Literaturegeek&curid=12071783&diff=307389282&oldid=307388431] That's all well and good, but no one should have to put up with abuse indefinitely.--[[User:Scuro|scuro]] ([[User talk:Scuro|talk]]) 03:48, 13 August 2009 (UTC) :I think that LG's suggestion of reporting what you see as violations of the AC restrictions directly to [[WP:AE]] is a good one. That will flag down an uninvolved administrator to review it. You may also file a [[WP:RFC/U|request for comment on user conduct]] (though you would need one other person who is having problems and has tried to resolve them to certify it). For what its worth I didn't see anything in the first example you linked on Nja's talk page. –<font face="verdana" color="black">[[user:xeno|'''xeno''']]</font>[[user talk:xeno|<font color="black" face="verdana">^talk</font>]] 12:27, 13 August 2009 (UTC) ::The behaviour varies from blatant abuse and blanking of my talk page posts, to personalizing the talk page. You would have seen some of the more blatant examples at the topic ban proposal,...and arbitration if you followed it. Granted she hasn't flown of the handle as much since I've been making an issue of it. Here is another example from a day or two ago.[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Attention-deficit_hyperactivity_disorder&diff=307196107&oldid=307194667] She appears to believe that I am working for big pharma and mentions this periodically, and also infers it. Here is an example of a comment she made to another contributor. [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Attention-deficit_hyperactivity_disorder&diff=307379846&oldid=307379738] All in all these recent comments are not blatant examples of abuse, but this is not stuff I want to see every time I come to wikipedia.--[[User:Scuro|scuro]] ([[User talk:Scuro|talk]]) 16:38, 13 August 2009 (UTC) :::My suggestions above still stand. I don't really see anything actionable. In the first diff there is no one in particular referenced. In the second one, if the user was indeed trying to interject original research than pointing it out is appropriate. Referencing TLDR may be considered mildly uncivil, but that would hardly even warrant a [[WP:WQA|WQA]]. I'll ask LG to comment. –<font face="verdana" color="black">[[user:xeno|'''xeno''']]</font>[[user talk:xeno|<font color="black" face="verdana">^talk</font>]] 17:02, 13 August 2009 (UTC) ::::I will follow your suggestions if future abuse occurs. ::::I do disagree with your interpretation. Even though no one is specifically named in that first citation, there is an obvious inference here on who she is talking about, especially since she responding to a previous post on the talk page. Do you truly believe that she fully focused on content when she states,''"a narrow view seems to be on the battle agenda of only amphetamines work for children and it is entirely a neurological based psychiatric disorder and everything else is fringe and not allowed in the article regardless of whether it is supported by good secondary sources or meta-analysis etc. This is the issue, the narrow POV editing on this article"''. That quote is all about characterizing someone as being "totally this", and being "totally that". Why does she need characterize another contributor that way, especially when it isn't true? The second citation is part of this thread [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Attention-deficit_hyperactivity_disorder#more_fringe_material] When one reads the thread one can easily see that Hyperion makes excellent points with citations. As above, Literaturegeek makes questionable accusations not based on facts. The accusation that Hyperion writes too much is out of line. I count under 240 words, how does 240 words qualify as [[WP:TLDR]]? Then she states that he is "being disruptive" because he cites sources, explains what the sources state, and uses 240 words to do so.--[[User:Scuro|scuro]] ([[User talk:Scuro|talk]]) 22:31, 13 August 2009 (UTC) :::::Because the comment is completely unindented, it seems to me to be more an attempt to bring the conversation back to the original post. The TLDR was probably unnecessary. I've asked LG to participate with an eye to being more diplomatic and hopefully this will alleviate your concerns. –<font face="verdana" color="black">[[user:xeno|'''xeno''']]</font>[[user talk:xeno|<font color="black" face="verdana">^talk</font>]] 22:37, 13 August 2009 (UTC) ::::::Yes, hopefully she will focus purely on content. She gets herself in trouble when she characterizes the motivation of others and their editing style. She seems emotional when chooses that line of action, and a number of contributors have made comments like, "it's time to cool down". She sees herself as a totally innocent victim here, even though she slings barbs far worse then anything she complains about. I could cite lots of quotes like this one, ''"This archive is half a megabyte of mostly paranoid obsessive ramblings about conspiracies of scientologists and antipsychiatrists, useless drama, fighting.." or "Manipulative often playing the victim role. This can even deceive administrators and make admins turn on their fellow admins"....) [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/ADHD/Evidence#A_response_to_Literaturegeek]''. As I said before it's not as bad as it used to be, and I will follow up with the actions you suggested if this behaviour continues. Accommodation is next to impossible. She has always refused to partake in any form of mediation or negotiation.--[[User:Scuro|scuro]] ([[User talk:Scuro|talk]]) 04:58, 14 August 2009 (UTC) == [[April Fools' Day|April 1st]] == An entirely random question. On April 1st, all the media tends to have a prank article. Does Wikipedia do the same? --<font color="#009000">[[User:Thejadefalcon|Thejadefalcon]]</font><font color="#03C03C">[[User talk:Thejadefalcon|^{''Sing your song''}]]</font><font color="#00A550">[[Special:Contributions/Thejadefalcon|_{''The bird's seeds''}]]</font> 15:31, 14 August 2009 (UTC) :We have a normally have a true article that looks like a prank. :*[[Wikipedia:Today's featured article/April 1, 2009]] (decrease the year to see previous years. This year there was a grande debate on whether to include [[Gropecunt Lane]] on April 1) :*[[Wikipedia:Selected anniversaries/April 1]] :The DYK hooks are also true but appear to be pranks [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Did_you_know&oldid=281167689]. –<font face="verdana" color="black">[[user:xeno|'''xeno''']]</font>[[user talk:xeno|<font color="black" face="verdana">^talk</font>]] 15:38, 14 August 2009 (UTC)'