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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Doug Weller (talk | contribs) at 10:14, 21 March 2015 (→Discretionary sanctions/article probation: Arbitrator views and discussion: wait for the general housekeeping motion, no rush for this). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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[[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification and Amendment#Clarification request: Improving the clarity of Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Discretionary sanctions|Clarification request: Improving the clarity of Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Discretionary sanctions]] none none 16 March 2015
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Clarification request: Improving the clarity of Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Discretionary sanctions

Initiated by Yaris678 at 14:27, 16 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

List of any users involved or directly affected, and confirmation that all are aware of the request:

Statement by Yaris678

I have tweaked the wording of Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Discretionary sanctions in a draft version at User:Yaris678/Discretionary sanctions. I don't believe this proposed wording changes the meaning of the text but I do believe it makes it easier to follow, especially for those not familiar with the workings of ArbCom.

The table below list these changes with an explanation of each one. I would appreciate it if the committee would consider these changes for implementation.

A
Text in current wording edited by Roger Davies at 11:15, 11 March 2015 		B
Text in proposed wording edited by Yaris678 at 10:42, 12 March 2015 		Explanation
1 Lead
No lead
 		Discretionary sanctions seek to maintain an acceptable collaborative editing environment for even our most contentious articles, by allowing administrators to impose restrictions on editors that severely or persistently disrupt that environment. Sanctions may only be used in authorised areas of conflict and include topic bans and temporary blocks. This will enable the page to explain what discretionary sanctions are relatively quickly in a way that Wikipedia users appreciate elsewhere on the site, including on policy and procedure pages.
2.1 Decorum Certain pages (typically, AE, AN, and ARCA) are used for the fair, well-informed, and timely resolution of discretionary sanction enforcement cases. Certain pages (typically, AE, AN, and ARCA) are used for the fair, well-informed, and timely resolution of discretionary sanction enforcement cases. Although these terms are explained in the "Definitions" section, people may jump to one of these sections and wonder what the terms are. Providing Wikilinks addresses this. In the proposed text, wikilinks are not provided if an abbreviation occurs soon after a previous explanation or wikilink for the term.
2.2 Expectations of administrators Prior routine enforcement interactions, prior administrator participation in enforcement discussions, or when an otherwise uninvolved administrator refers a matter to AE to elicit the opinion of other administrators or refers a matter to the committee at ARCA, do not constitute or create involvement. Prior routine enforcement interactions, prior administrator participation in enforcement discussions, or when an otherwise uninvolved administrator refers a matter to AE to elicit the opinion of other administrators or refers a matter to the committee at ARCA, do not constitute or create involvement.
2.3 Sanctions Prior to placing sanctions that are likely to be controversial, administrators are advised to elicit the opinions of other administrators at AE. Prior to placing sanctions that are likely to be controversial, administrators are advised to elicit the opinions of other administrators at AE.
3 Sanctions Any uninvolved administrator is authorised to place: revert and move restrictions, interaction bans, topic bans, and blocks of up to one year in duration, or other reasonable measure that the enforcing administrator believes is necessary and proportionate for the smooth running of the project. Uninvolved administrators are authorised to place reasonable measures that they believe to be necessary and proportionate for the smooth running of the project, including: Bulletise list and re-order sentence to make it easier to follow.
4 Appeals by sanctioned editors 3. submit a request for amendment at "ARCA". 3. submit a request for amendment at requests for amendment ("ARCA"). Consistency with point 2 of the list.

Moved from other sections

In reply to Coldacid I'm happy to lose the word "only". Yaris678 (talk) 17:29, 16 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
In reply to GoodDay Adding in the words "broadly construed" sounds like a good idea. Yaris678 (talk) 18:52, 16 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by coldacid

@Yaris678: I think the part that "raises the bar" is Sanctions may only be used in authorised areas of conflict and include topic bans and temporary blocks. In particular, the "may only" part should probably be just "may", although since I'm not an arb I look forward to one of them correcting me. // coldacid (talk|contrib) 16:58, 16 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by GoodDay

The broadly construde part of my own Arb restriction is quite clear to me. On the 2 occassions that I breached it (on my own talkpage), the result was a 1-week block & a 1-month block. The question might be, are editors under arb restrictions being dealt with evenly when they breach. GoodDay (talk) 18:48, 16 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by NE Ent

Ds-Alerts are a techno-bureaucratic abomination which should be marked historical as soon as possible. Let's look at the wording: The Arbitration Committee has authorised discretionary sanctions to be used for pages regarding See #topic codes for options, a topic which you have edited. The Committee's decision is blah blah
Discretionary sanctions is a system of conduct regulation designed to minimize disruption to controversial topics. This means uninvolved administrators can impose sanctions for edits relating to the topic that do not adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, our standards of behavior, or relevant policies. Administrators may impose sanctions such as editing restrictions, bans, or blocks. This message is to notify you sanctions are authorised for the topic you are editing. Before continuing to edit this topic, please familiarise yourself with the discretionary sanctions system. Don't hesitate to contact me or another editor if you have any questions.
This message is informational only and does not imply misconduct regarding your contributions to date.
What rubbish. In other words, I pretty much have to lie / prevaricate, for the following reasons:
  1. "This message is informational only" Do you think I just wasted too much of time reading through "To see whether a user has been Alerted to discretionary sanctions, ..." and doing that nonsense for "information only?" No, I think the editor is acting like a dweeb and it is my intent to rat them out at WP:AE if it continues.
  2. "Don't hesitate to contact me " Actually, I'd greatly prefer it if you hesitate. If I thought there's any chance addressing you like a reasonable person would work, I'd have done it already rather than dealing with the ds/alert nonsense.
  3. (Not really important, but) "authorised" "Discretionary sanctions is" "familiarise" ... do I sound like a Brit/Aussie/Kiwi/Indian et. al? I'm an American: Baseball, Mom, Apple Pie and "sanctions are," "authorized," "familiarize." I respect your dialect of English please respect mine.
Ds/alert are dehumanizing interaction for both the notifier and notifiee, contrary to the gestalt of the collaboration ideal of Wikipedia. The barriers to entry are over complicated instructions are the danger of getting sanctions if you post an alert 364 days after the last one. I understand the history; the newer system is an improvement over the prior "angst over warnings" system. But it's an unnecessary Rube Goldberg. We already have an existing, simple, easily and widely understood system for notifying and then enforcing remedies: the WP:3RR system. Please just use that. NE Ent 08:47, 17 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by NewsAndEventsGuy

On point 3, add a bullet for the original omitted text "or other reasonable measure". Otherwise, these are great suggestions and I agree with all the other wordsmithing feedback submitted thus far. NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 09:29, 17 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Liz

I'm surprised by this proposal after looking at Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Discretionary sanctions/2013 review where there were three rounds of consultation before Discretionary Sanctions wording was altered. Is it appropriate to suggest a rewrite here? Liz Read! Talk! 13:34, 18 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by {other-editor}

Other editors are free to make relevant comments on this request as necessary. Comments here should address why or why not the Committee should accept the case request or provide additional information.

Improving the clarity of Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Discretionary sanctions: Clerk notes

This area is used for notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).

Improving the clarity of Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Discretionary sanctions: Arbitrator views and discussion

  • On a first read I'm inclined to agree with 1, 2 and 4 without comment. Point 3 though changes "any uninvolved administrator" to "uninvolved administrators", which could be interpreted as meaning an administrator may no longer act alone. I like the rest of the change though. Thryduulf (talk) 14:49, 16 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • So far I'm with Thrydulf. Yaris687's suggested change seems to work. Of course, I may have missed something being still green. Dougweller (talk) 16:12, 16 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hi Yaris678, I'm afraid I got the wrong end of the stick when you were asking at WT:AC about clarifications. I'd assumed you had some major points that needed urgently sorting ... As you know, DS is a committee procedure (with the force of policy) and changes can only be made by motion. Looking at your suggestions, none are urgent so best is to address them in the next housekeeping DS motion (probably in a couple of months). Incidentally, Point One is inaccurate and explicitly raises the bar at which DS can be imposed, which I'm sure was not intended. Thanks very much for your input,  Roger Davies talk 16:30, 16 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • Yaris678 To clarify, DS isn't about "[imposing] restrictions on editors that severely or persistently disrupt that environment", that can be done by admin under normal admin discretion. Instead, it allows admins deal with any misconduct, even minor misconduct, in sensitive/hot button/tinderbox articles. ie zero tolerance.  Roger Davies talk 18:26, 16 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • Coldacid Yes, you make a good point there too. DS is typically for "edits about, or pages relating to [topic]" and are also about exporting disputes into fresh areas outside the specific area of conflict,  Roger Davies talk 18:30, 16 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strike the "only" and I don't see this makes a difference, so, totally indifferent, really. Neither set of wording has any problems. Courcelles (talk) 17:16, 17 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm pretty well indifferent on these too, and agree having them in with general housekeeping rather than as a special request. Seraphimblade Talk to me 03:06, 18 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Amendment request: GamerGate

Initiated by Rhoark at 04:08, 17 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Case or decision affected
GamerGate arbitration case (t) (ev / t) (w / t) (pd / t)
Clauses to which an amendment is requested
  1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/GamerGate#Scope_of_standard_topic_ban_.28I.29


List of any users involved or directly affected, and confirmation that all are aware of the request
Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request
Information about amendment request
  • Create an additional remedy, hereafter termed "standard topic ban (II)" constructed as follows: Any editor restricted per this remedy is indefinitely prohibited from making any edit about (a) Gamergate, (b) sexism in video games, (c) people associated with (a) or (b), all broadly construed. These restrictions may be appealed to the Committee only after 12 months have elapsed from the closing of this case.

Convert all existing restrictions under standard topic ban (I) or functionally identical to standard topic ban (I) to standard topic ban (II). Any uninvolved administrator may henceforth apply either standard topic ban I or II as a discretionary sanction, as seems most appropriate to prevent disruption.


Statement by Rhoark

Apologies if this request is improper in any way, but as an affected party I would like to request amendment to a sanction I believe is ineffective. The question of what constitutes a "gender-related dispute", and the continuing off-site attention to the matter is causing more disruption than I believe would result from a narrower topic ban on the affected individuals. Except for one of them, I doubt those that are not already indef blocked would actually disrupt other gender controversy pages due to sour grapes (especially after 3 months to cool off), so its mostly a WP:BEANS restriction. I've also heard it claimed the resulting off-site campaigning is further discouraging female participation in Wikipedia, which is a hot-button issue. I don't have firsthand knowledge of that. I share @TheRedPenOfDoom:'s concerns about setting a precedent of bending to campaigns organized off-wiki, but I think on the whole this will improve the collaborative editing environment. Rhoark (talk) 04:08, 17 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I've responded to Hipocrite's statements about my editing history, which he also made at AE. It would be helpful if everyone would centralize discussion on that to over there. Rhoark (talk) 15:22, 17 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I've tossed the ball and will try to avoid too much of trying to steer it by blowing on it, but I'd like to share the analogy I brought up in the other thread: the more you squeeze a handful of sand, the faster it slips through your fingers. There are problems at the root of the misbehavior that are fixable, but not by doubling down on the same strategy. This is not, as some have suggested, evidence of incompetence or malice at arbcom, so trying a different tack need not be considered an admission of such. No one in history has ever dealt with quite the same situation. Rhoark (talk) 19:19, 17 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I hope that tangential discussion of my editing history will not distract too much from the request for amendment. If anyone thinks it is a problem, please bring it to my talk page or a separate filing. I'm not upset by it, and make no demands upon Hipocrite in response to it. On the topic of the request, its natural to react to this as one would react to some reprobate trying to slip the terms of their ban and re-engage. I imagine the arbitrators see that a lot. This is something quite different. Comments supportive of this amendment have been from people quite independent of those sanctioned, and crossing the aisle with respect to the controversial area. Rhoark (talk) 21:56, 18 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Cailil: I think this is about a different class of editor than you have concerns about. As shown by NBSB's request for clarification and the Spudst3r (talk · contribs) case, there is uncertainty about how to even apply GG sanctions to an editor that's operating in gender pages and hasn't touched GG. A different framework or clarification is needed regardless. I think this is something that should be raised for comment at WikiProject Feminism (but I don't want to bring it myself and look like canvassing.)
When people are obviously of no use to the encyclopedia they get indeffed. This never would have gone to arbcom if the editors involved weren't wanted in the community in any capacity. As such, I don't think the topic ban is really what's standing between them and battlegrounding non-GG gender pages. If I'm wrong it should still work out for the best under PBAGD.
As for what @DD2K: said, I took it as a facetious statement. We should let him clarify before drawing inferences. Rhoark (talk) 23:55, 19 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by NorthBySouthBaranof

Statement by MarkBernstein

Statement by TKOP

  • Support Amendment - A wise narrowing of the overly broad existing restrictions. Just narrow it to GamerGate, and if trouble brews again, widen a bit further. That some have been flirting the restrictions, and with the general malaise-ish support to the point that admins are letting things go is telling.Two kinds of porkMakin'Bacon 05:15, 17 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • To the arbitrators: Would one of you briefly explain why the sanctions are broader than GG? Was there something in the case that was the impetus for a gender controversy ban?. MRA perhaps?Two kinds of porkMakin'Bacon 21:30, 17 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by TheRedPenOfDoom

Statement by coldacid

@Thryduulf: My feeling on this is that it'll do nothing but promote further boundary testing. The rational part of me doesn't quite agree, but I'd certainly argue against converting the existing bans to the type II proposed above if it is added to the remedies. I'd say to Two kinds of pork's comment that general malaise-ish support to the point that admins are letting things go is not a fault with the topic ban's scope, but rather with admins who are putting the optics of the situation ahead of doing the right thing for Wikipedia.

I'm not entirely opposed to adding the additional topic ban scope, I'm just not sure if it'll actually result in the environment that Rhoark and TheRedPenOfDoom hope for. And I fear that reducing existing tbans to the lighter scope will only encourage those currently under the existing scope to cause further problems in the topic space. // coldacid (talk|contrib) 12:41, 17 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Squiggleslash: Lena Dunham isn't covered under the GG topic ban scope because she's a woman. The article on her is covered because of controversies related to her book, including the rape allegations made by her as well as the part that has been interpreted as admission of rape of her own sister. Please don't go on with that canard that she and all other women with articles are in scope because of their gender. // coldacid (talk|contrib) 13:40, 17 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Hipocrite: If Rhoark is such an obvious sockpuppet then why don't you report them to WP:SPI? That's what it's there for. Otherwise you're simply casting aspersions. // coldacid (talk|contrib) 14:46, 17 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Thryduulf: Please note that Hipocrite has made the same accusation also on AE.[3] // coldacid (talk|contrib) 14:49, 17 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Courcelles makes a good point responding to a comment by Salvio giuliano below, regarding subclause (i)(c) of the discretionary sanctions clause in the case remedies. However, it seems that the prevailing interpretation is that parts of biographical articles that don't deal with GG or gender-related disputes are acceptable areas for edits by people currently under the GG topic ban. Perhaps if there's any clarification or loosening of the topic ban restriction to be done, it should be to codify this interpretation only. // coldacid (talk|contrib) 01:42, 18 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Cailil: Hear hear! // coldacid (talk|contrib) 11:57, 19 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Bishonen: Is it really so hard to believe that someone might, you know, do some research before beginning to contribute to Wikipedia, or that they'd prefer to not have an account? That they might not be a logged out editor, but someone genuinely editing from an IP address? Because I actually know some such editors. Perhaps you need to remember to assume good faith before blocking people without having any evidence other than that they disagree with you. // coldacid (talk|contrib) 20:22, 19 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by squiggleslash

Makes sense to me, especially as admins seem to be stretching what constitutes a controversy or gender related (Lena Dunham is a woman, therefore gender related; some universities have controversies related to their sexual assault policies/some women have falsely accused men of rape on campus therefore Campus Rape is controversial despite nobody mainstream actually being in favor of it)

I would replace the existing topic ban with this, not add it as an option, and see about creating a more broader topic ban with better language. But given that suggestion will be ignored, I agree with adding it as an option as proposed by the initiator of this proposal. --Squiggleslash (talk) 12:57, 17 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Coldacid - You're explaining the justification for Lena Dunham being a "controversy" which wasn't in dispute.

@GorillaWarfare - I wouldn't interpret this as narrowing the scope as creating a well defined scope. The current scope is highly open to interpretation, a sizable gulf exists between what editors (and most people outside of Wikipedia) think is meant by "Gender based controversy" and what admins/Arbcom does. What supporters of the status quo are calling "boundary pushing" isn't boundary pushing, it's people who believe they're on the outside of the boundary.

@GorillaWarfare and other admins now forming views similar to those expressed - OK, well just be aware that this amendment is being proposed to deal with a significant issue, and that it seems likely that unless addressed the relevant Wikipedian disciplinary bureaucracy seems likely to continue to be abused, day in, day out, by the usual suspects bringing in attempts to harass editors whose edits they disagree with. This fix would not, by itself, completely solve it, but the issues can't be solved without this type of fix. As far as the topics under discussion go: I would hope admins and Arbcom recognize there's a difference between personally believing that something fits a particular definition, and believing that everyone else must share the same views. Unfortunately it sounds, from comments like "Toeing the line not attempting to steer clear of the topic area" that this isn't the case, that you can't imagine why anyone would disagree with you, and that you're assuming bad faith in anyone who expresses an opinion on the subject you disagree with. (And for reference, I don't think either topic can be described as either - one isn't controversial, the other isn't gender related) I hope this is not the case and I'm simply misunderstanding this.

@Seraphimblade - It doesn't sound like the specific abuses you're concerned about, people finding excuses to talk about Gamergate, would be affected by placing them under this topic ban. I'm also a little concerned that much of the opposition to this proposal focuses on whether the right message is being sent by "narrowing" the ban, rather than trying to ensure the right thing is done. Is it a problem if an established, reputable, editor who was sanctioned and topic banned for being slightly uncivil and reverting a few consensus-opposed edits on the Gamergate page, corrects problems on the Lena Dunham page? Is this really what you're trying to prevent?

It seems that the current consensus is "We think Lena Dunham is a gender-related controversy and it's impossible for anyone to disagree with us and not know we think that", and "We can't allow there to be a clearer, tighter, standard topic ban because in some unspecified way that would be rewarding people who are confused by the current ban." I respectfully ask those of you stating those positions to review whether or not they make sense. --Squiggleslash (talk) 20:10, 17 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Agree with Tarc here. Hoping the next group of people who make up Arbcom have a better handle on how to prevent drama, and the sanity of punishing its victims. Unwatching. --Squiggleslash (talk) 13:02, 18 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Beauxlieux

First, the restriction should be for the GamerGate Controversy, not GamerGate, that's the ant, which as far as I know isn't an issue.

Second, the way Wikipedia archives arbitration, the history is not included so @Squiggleslash:'s valuable comments which they chose to redact aren't included after the IMHO inappropriate comments, but the comments are in the history here: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification_and_Amendment&direction=prev&oldid=651502323 (and yes, I'm a new editor, and if I spend all my time trying to figure out how to make all these fancy links, I won't write this) The inappropriate questioning of Squiggleslash's integrity, however, remains in the arbitration archives, and I'm glad about that.

So, @Rhoark: in terms of your concern, "I've also heard it claimed the resulting off-site campaigning is further discouraging female participation in Wikipedia, which is a hot-button issue." The behavior here is what is discouraging female participation. Exposing that behavior isn't the problem. Women appreciate knowing what they may be getting themselves into and making informed decisions based on the reality of what is actually happening in the forum. Calling rape "a gender-related controversy" is disheartening to many women. It is not validating survivors. Rape is rape.

Furthermore, I think these bans and sanctions should be accompanied by a requirement of an apology as I outline here: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/Require_Apologies That would help create a more civil environment which would be welcoming to women. 

Beauxlieux (talk) 16:14, 17 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Hipocrite

Why is Rhoark, an obvious sockpuppet participating in administrative spaces unblocked? Hipocrite (talk) 13:48, 17 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

An editor who joins in late 2014 doesn't know about WP:REICHSTAG. SPI takes too much time for me to deal with right now. If that's a problem for you, feel free to remove this. Hipocrite (talk) 14:44, 17 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by TenOfAllTrades

(ec) @Thryduulf: I assume that Hipocrite noted that Rhoark is a sockpuppet, based on the very conspicuous behavioral clues. Demanding a full noticeboard discussion and bureaucratic performance before being allowed to acknowledge the obvious is unproductive and unhelpful. I'm not involved in this area at all and I'm only commenting because I saw your response go by on my watchlist, but even I can see that Rhoark was not a new user when he created his account.

When an obviously-experienced editor creates a new account solely to work in a controversial area, it legitimately raises eyebrows. Even if no one can be bothered to formally analyze and report the duck, it's silly and disingenuous to pretend that we can't hear it quacking. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 15:18, 17 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Bosstopher: Hell, I've been around since 2004 and I still don't fully grasp what happens inside <ref> tags. The fact that he was using that markup at all (rather than just, e.g., bare inline links) is indicative of significant experience.
I will also note that I made no suggestion as to the identity of the original account, and don't know if they're from 2006 or 2012. I don't know who it would be, and I wouldn't expect to know; as I said, I'm not at all involved in this area (either as an editor or administratively). Since SPI won't do "fishing expeditions", we're left with the situation we have here—an obvious alternate account (albeit one without an obvious master), created exclusively to edit in a contentious area, is now participating in (and initiating) administrative processes. If the ArbCom wants to encourage and defend such shenanigans, that's on them. But it's definitely not misconduct or inappropriate for Hipocrite to take note of the situation. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 15:58, 17 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Tarc

Placeholder, lack the time to make a full comment atm.

Note that I revised the "party clown car" header above; there's a level of decorum I expect from editors with whom I have no prior relationship. This did not meet it.

Thryduulf, et al, this isn't so much about boundary testing as it is about people wanting to know where the flippin' the boundary is. The only way to ensure complete safety for oneself is to pull a TDA and stop editing altogether. So you either issued a) de facto sitebans or b) set us up to fail with an impossibly broad and vague topic ban. No one in their right mind would think "campus rape" is a "gender dispute". Gender touches every aspect of daily life, it is everywhere and anywhere; you simply cannot use that broad of a brush. Can we edit Susan B Anthony? The Birdcage? Murder of Du'a Khalil Aswad? Bra burning? How about sub-sections, Dolce_& Gabbana#Gay adoption controversy? Tarc (talk) 17:49, 17 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Arbcom; they never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. Un-watching and climbing back into the clown car. Tarc (talk) 02:07, 18 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Bosstopher

Please accept this ammendment Arbcom. The purpose of a topic ban is to prevent disruption. The current scope of the standard Gamergate topic ban only serves to cause disruption. Bosstopher (talk) 15:38, 17 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@TenOfAllTrades: So we're meant to believe that Rhoark, a supposed sock puppet of someone who's been around since 2006, at no point in his decade of wikipedia editing, learnt that you're not meant to use bare-refs as citations? Knowing that policies like OR exist before editing, is a sign of responsible editing that should be encouraged.Bosstopher (talk) 15:38, 17 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Sappow

It seems like what's really needed is clarification and enforcement; it does not necessarily have to be done by narrowing the scope, but it really does seem like a good idea to do it by some means, perhaps even just making a mission statement for what your desired outcome is. This process of enforcement-by-swarm-of-bees is really not a positive one for any outcome that involves the controversy cooling off and not giving everyone constant headaches, and the ambiguity of how the ruling can be interpreted does not help.

I don't know what your preferred outcome would be, but maybe you should just make a statement along the lines of "just stop participating in controversial zones at all, look at all these articles about census data in Kazakhstan that need the attention of an experienced editor, why don't you go help touch up those some? Chill.", if that is the intended goal of the sanctions.

It may also make sense to have some sort of contagion rule applied to the sanctions, because the way people keep pursuing sanctioned individuals like Mark Bernstein around to look for minor violations to open (yet another...) complaint and filing seems like a form of behavior that should be flat out punished itself, if the goal is to have the controversy cool down so good articles can be written. Essentially, if people persist in following around the sanctioned individuals and being hypervigiliant to bring the controversy to their actions anywhere for the slightest mis-step, they should catch some full bore sanctions themselves. Sappow (talk) 21:50, 17 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Metamagician3000

The topic ban is intended to be broadly construed. The editors concerned need to accept that - as do any other editors who might be tempted to assist them - instead of trying to test the boundaries. Admins also need to understand the broad nature of the topic ban and enforce it. Editors against whom adverse findings were made, with sanctions such as topic bans, should not be given areas in which they are free to keep warring: they should understand that battleground tactics and non-neutral approaches to editing are unwelcome, and they should err on the side of keeping away from any articles that push their emotional/political buttons. The outcome of the case was clear, so I suggest that the request be rejected. If it's accepted, it should only be for the purpose of underlining the broad nature of the ban. Metamagician3000 (talk) 02:52, 18 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Floq

When dozens of new or long-dormant accounts crawl out of the woodwork, all to take one side in a controversial issue, including starting and participating in Arb-related issues, having an Arb insist that we assume each new one is legit unless all the forms are filed is disappointing. The solution is not to insist on SPI's, the solution is to block them or topic ban them as soon as they show their colors. I have blocked or topic banned a couple such accounts, and I'm not even active in the area. I suggest ArbCom pass a motion that no new arbitration requests or clarifications or modifications or enforcement requests or anything are allowed from single-purpose accounts who don't significantly edit anything other than GamerGate articles.

A single-purpose account dedicated to editing about snails, or 16th century Japanese poetry, is helpful. Several dozen single-purpose accounts dedicated to pushing one side in a controversial area, not so much. --Floquenbeam (talk) 15:14, 18 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by Bishonen

@Thryduulf: @TenOfAllTrades: This is in re Thryduulf's rebuke to Hipocrite below, where he orders Hipocrite to either withdraw the accusation of sockpuppetry or produce SPI-worthy evidence. (Floquenbeam's comment above obviously refers to that as well, though Floq seems to have become outrageously polite in his old age.) In a recent request for enforcement of the GamerGate sanctions, MastCell indeffed the OP as an obvious sock.[5] And I blocked an IP on the same ground, see User talk:76.64.12.157. Neither MastCell nor I could suggest obvious, or any, sockmasters; we blocked because these were obviously people hiding behind respectively an account and an IP to evade scrutiny and stir shit in the GamerGate area without getting their experienced-editor persona in trouble. That is a block reason IMO. But if anybody would like to propose a motion to desysop MastCell and me, I'm fine with that too. Thryduulf, I hope you'll find the time to reply to my comment, and Floquenbeams, as you still haven't to Ten's (an extremely respected admin). That is not meant as a crack; I realize wikitime is precious for arbs. Still, I'm not sure my priorities would be the same as yours in this instance. Bishonen | talk 16:33, 18 March 2015 (UTC).[reply]

@Thryduulf: Indeed I didn't ask you a question; I criticized your magisterial reproof to Hipocrite and thought you might have something to say to that. I thought the question was implied, but if you're going to blow me off with a formality, I'll put my concern in the form of a question, or several questions. Do you think MastCell and I misused our tools in the actions I described immediately above? Are you going to propose we be desysopped, or admonished, or advised? If not, why not? Bishonen | talk 18:14, 18 March 2015 (UTC).[reply]
@Thryduulf: And I don't believe you noticed my statement that "MastCell indeffed the OP as an obvious sock. And I blocked an IP on the same ground" (my italics). Nor clicked on my links, inserted in order to further clarify that we blocked them as socks. But I'm done here. Bishonen | talk 20:58, 18 March 2015 (UTC).[reply]

Statement by Kaciemonster

Considering that the problem here is endless wikilawyering from editors trying to get their opponents blocked or topic banned, the impossibly broad sanction wording opens up more opportunities to continue those same disputes elsewhere on wiki, especially AE. It should be obvious that the current sanctions aren't working the way they were meant to, since the current wording is meant to prevent the problems on the Gamergate article from traveling to other gender-related articles. We're dealing with complaints on these boards that people are editing articles that technically fall under the scope of the sanctions, so they're obviously not living up to their purpose and just causing more drama.

Narrowing the sanctions would allow for editors to edit topics that have nothing to do with Gamergate without the fear of breaking their topic ban on a technicality. I don't think the issue is editors testing the boundaries of the topic ban, I think the issue is that the topic ban isn't intuitive. I'm pretty sure that technically the Girl Scouts of the USA article would count under the current topic ban, because of the whole "girls can't be scouts" thing. Also, any time a woman does anything and gets pushback just because she's a woman, it would count under the topic ban. Should we start issuing sanction notices for articles like that? Or do these sanctions only count if the editor has edited Gamergate and a sort of almost gender-related article? Confusion about the scope of the topic ban has been expressed since the proposed decision was posted. Since there's still confusion, consider that the problem isn't the editors, it's that the current topic ban isn't clear enough.

If the scope is narrowed, Gamergate editors begin editing gender-related topics, and problems start popping up on those articles, it'll become obvious who the editors are that are causing trouble, and they can be dealt with. Kaciemonster (talk) 15:34, 18 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Liz

While I think I understand what the committee intended by the phrasing "gender-related dispute" or "gender-related controversy", in practice, it is overly broad and, for instance, could cover the biographies of any man or woman who is deemed controversial. For example, rape is a criminal act, it is not a "controversy" and an article on campus rape shouldn't be covered by an editing restriction that is focused on the GamerGate controversy and its associated subjects. It might be in some people's minds, gender is associated with feminism but gender is a social and cultural construct that is an aspect of any and every individual person, man, woman or child. If the AC meant "feminism" and/or "sexism" than restrict the topic ban to these specific subjects, not any article that touches on aspects of gender. Liz Read! Talk! 16:55, 18 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Salvio, I think I'm pretty familiar with Lena Dunham's bio and it's still not clear to me what part is gender-related controversy and, as such, be subject to GamerGate DS. Are you referring to aspects of her bio that deal with sexuality? Because that is not gender. Gender is ones identity as a man, woman, transgender person or queer and the social, cultural and biological forces that help shape that identity. Gender is not synonymous with sexuality or feminism or women in general. Campus rape is not a gender-related controversy, it's not about identity, it's about sexual violence against men and women. Chelsea Manning case would be covered in this instance because the dispute was about gender identity.
I think most of the editors here that I agree with think that "gender-related dispute", broadly constructed, is imprecise and ill-defined and there isn't agreement on the scope of what articles this would apply to. This vagueness can only lead to MORE cases coming to AE, not fewer. This request for clarification is an opportunity for arbitrators to narrow the scope to exactly what troublesome topical areas you had in mind. This action would settle a lot of questions, in advance and reduce the frequency that you will see GamerGate cases returning to AE and ARCA for additional decision-making and fewer sanctions against editors because the boundaries would be clear, not fuzzy. Unfortunately, it appears that the majority of arbitrators are refusing to reconsider the scope of the DS so I imagine you will continue to receive GamerGate-related questions on a regular basis. Liz Read! Talk! 18:50, 19 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by EChastain

Absolutely agree with the statement by Liz. GorillaWarfare, doesn't "gender" related equally to men and women (males and females)? Potentially almost any article could fall within "broadly construed", or even WikiProjects as has happened in a "broadly construed" interpretation in another ARCA case. Courcelles, Salvio giuliano, the problem with "the current scope needs to be enforced, and boundary testing dealt with", as you say below, is that many editors don't understand what "the current scope" is. If people like me knew the "current scope", then we could take a stab at the "broadly construed" part. EChastain (talk) 21:20, 18 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Hell in a Bucket

I agree with others, GorillaWarfare has a conflict of interest that she denies is a problem but it clearly is an issue in her judgement. Hell in a Bucket (talk) 21:48, 18 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • User:GorillaWarfare, one such is Echaistain above. I don't recall saying you need to recuse but it does colour your judgement. I think that you are on the uber sensitive side. You've made unfounded personal accusations, you've attempted to duck process in banning TKOP, you even jumped all over your fellow Arb in the latest quasi-related bro-hahaha and practically accused that individual of sexism as well merely for pointing out some of the problematic behaviors they had seen. (I attempted to word that carefully so as not to breach my Iban but if that reference is a problem let me know and I will strike it). Asking you what sexism is or isn't or possibly gender related is like taking a match in a powder store house, it causes more issues then it's worth. Hell in a Bucket (talk) 16:47, 19 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • User:GorillaWarfare I'm sure almost everyone with an entrenched COI would say the exact same thing. They don't see the problem it's a reason why it's so nec a person to exercise caution in those areas. You have failed to do that in a few of the things I've mentioned but you seemingly glossed over in your reply. I don't think you are doing things to just do things, I believe you truly see things in those lights but I think your view on what is and isn't is a bit skewed. I don't support suppression of participation in discussion I think it's a cowards way of answering and or suppressing open dialogue which is vital to Wikipedia's goal but I would urge caution in acting as an arb because you have half fired a few half cocked shots from the hip then pleaded ignorance about the processes. I find those odd that an Arb of your tenure would not know this much about the arb processes which if we assume good faith is that is all it was, but if we look at a darker view you did those things, ie TKOP banning proposal among other things because you allowed your conflict of interest rule your actions and then that was your card to play for lessened responsibility. Those actions don't scream out a whole bunch of reason to have confidence in your reasoning at least in these situations. Hell in a Bucket (talk) 17:31, 19 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Cailil

  • "The road to hell is paved with good intentions", and however well intentioned the lobbying to reduce the scope of the ARBGG bans it's missing the point. The GG fiasco was due to the complete lack of tools for the community to deal with organized and semi-organized politically motivated trolling. Whether you like it or not the internet is crawling with highly motivated ideologues who froth at the mouth when it comes to gender issues. And Wikipedia's tolerance for bad behaviour in the area of gender is very high - for example Dave Dial made a comment only in the last ARCA request (a few days ago) saying "if the people being attacked weren't just some feminist women who act too big for their britches, the case would have looked much different"[6], and nobody batted and eyelid.
    The problem is an off-wiki issue of hatred and it is not specific to GamerGate. Limiting any solution to the narrow area of GG flies in the face of evidence of the long standing problem of battleground attitudes & meatpuppetry and off-site organized trolling at other Gender related pages, i.e Feminism, Men's rights, Domestic violence, as well as the demonstrated willingness of these trolls (of various political hues) to use wikipedia as a battleground for their offsite agendas. The ruling needs scope to be effective, just like any other ruling in an RfAr related to politics or ideology--Cailil talk 11:24, 19 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by (anonymous)

Contrary to User:Bishonen's claims above, I have never had an account. And contrary to User:Hipocrite's reasoning, I, too, am well aware of WP:SPIDERMAN (since the canonical name seems to bother some people) and have been for quite some time. Wikipedia is kind of a big deal for many habitual internet users; Google often privileges information from Wikipedia by setting up a sidebar for it, and customized Wikipedia search comes built into modern web browsers. It is not unfathomable that a new editor, or a WP:HUMAN like myself, would have been browsing Wikipedia for years before making any edits, and come across various bits of policy material. Some people like to immerse themselves in the documentation of an Internet culture before attempting to become part of it, you know. After all, there's a pretty universal trend in such cultures of denigrating people for failing to do so - it's absurd that Wikipedia seems bent on persecuting those who actually get the hint because they "know too much".

Wikipedia is IMX a lot more "accessible" than the sock-puppet witch-hunters seem to think - at least for the technologically savvy, and those who have experience with other wiki systems and fora with their own various and sundry markup languages. I've learned how people do things like {{tq}} and {{u}} and {{ping}}, and even {{subst:WikiLove-cookie}} simply by looking at existing page source and using Google.

And as for WP:SPIDERMAN itself, a bit of research shows me that it was explicitly mentioned in Dariusz Jemelniak's Common Knowledge? An Ethnography of Wikipedia. It's also not unfathomable that new editors would have read such a book and that it might even have been their inspiration for beginning to edit.

70.24.6.180 (talk) 17:45, 19 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note. This IP acknowledges above that they're the same person as 76.64.12.157 (talk · contribs · WHOIS), which is currently blocked for disruption. (They also made that pretty clear in these posts at the Teahouse page.) I have therefore struck out the post and blocked the static IP they're using at the moment. No doubt we'll hear from them again, from some other proxy. I advise WP:RBI, but since I'm attacked by name above, I won't myself delete the post. Bishonen | talk 18:54, 19 March 2015 (UTC).[reply]

Statement by DHeyward

As I said on the other request, I think it needs to be clarified that articles like Lena Dunham are not completely off-limits and should clarify using real language ((not "standard language") that it's a "topic ban" not an "article ban". I do however believe that rape of any form is gender related. Rape is overwhelmingly a violent act committed by men against women. The view of rape as a crime against women (and not their husbands or fathers) has certainly evolved along with the struggle for gender equality. "Date rape" became a topic beginning at least in the 1980's as violent crime against women with "No means no" campaigns and the increase in awareness and prosecutions. "Campus rape" is certainly gender related and we now have "Yes means yes" campaigns. To the extent that Lena Dunham's biography article covers the details of her experience as a rape victim is, at its core, a deeply personal and overwhelmingly female experience. The purpose of the topic bans is to keep editors from disrupting that section because of a previous pattern of being unable to do so. The battle that occurred/occurs at GamerGate does not need to spill over to every article with gender or sexual overtones due to the personalities or strongly held views that inhibit collaboration or consensus. It is certainly the case in the Lena Dunham article that it's not her article, per se, that was at issue or her gender or sexuality. Rather the personalities that got involved in writing about those issues "brought their bags with them", so to speak. Bishonen blocked a few. BLP issues were fixed but now we have another WP:BATTLEGROUND because of GamerGate baggage. GamerGate topic bans should include both gender and sexuality as both are/were GamerGate battleground topics from the beginning. Topic banned editors will bring their doppelganger when they edit topics that touch on their ban. Ultimately enforcement should be judged by disruption and an overly broad sanction that makes entire persons off-limits creates disruption with frivolous complaints. The topic ban language should reflect that it's only the topic as it relates to the person that's an issue, and not the person as they relate to the topic. "Toeing the line" should be met with warnings and sanctions as it shouldn't be tolerated as the purpose of clarifying the language is to let TBanned editors edit areas unrelated to gender or sexuality, not inch closer to the abyss. --DHeyward (talk) 22:52, 19 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by {other-editor}

Other editors are free to make relevant comments on this request as necessary. Comments here should address why or why not the Committee should accept the case request or provide additional information.

Gamergate: Clerk notes

This area is used for notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).

Gamergate: Arbitrator views and discussion

  • I've read the statements so far and I'm so far undecided on the request's merits, so I'd like see more opinions. Particularly I really don't want to be sending a message that encourages boundary testing, so any thoughts on that would be particularly welcome. Thryduulf (talk) 12:21, 17 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    Having given this more thought and read the additional comments, I'm going to agree with my colleagues and decline to narrow the scope. The correct way to deal with the disruption evident here is for the topic banned editors to steer well clear of the topic area (and read the definitions given by arbitrators, such as Salvio below, not what someone happens to have written on a blog somewhere) and spend time improving the many areas of Wikipedia and/or sister projects that need work. If you don't do this then you will find yourself unable to edit anywhere on Wikipedia and you will have only yourself to blame. Thryduulf (talk) 21:36, 17 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • @Hipocrite: If you have evidence that a user is a sockpuppet editing in violation of the relevant policy, then present that evidence at the appropriate venue (e.g. WP:SPI or WP:AN/I). If that evidence shows that they are a sockpuppet their contributions will be dealt with accordingly, if the evidence does not show that they are an editor who has been blocked or banned from participating here then their contributions will remain. Casting aspersions without evidence, as you have done above, is not permitted so either back up your accusation with evidence or remove it. Thryduulf (talk) 14:37, 17 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      • @TenOfAllTrades: If you believe someone is a sockpuppet, then you need to deal with that in an appropriate forum (Which is not here), if you haven't got any evidence (technical or behavioural) to even explain your suspicions then do not make the accusation. Unless and until someone is blocked as a sockpuppet then accusing them of being one without evidence is not acceptable. Asking why someone hasn't been blocked as a sockpuppet without having presented evidence to demonstrate that they are in fact a sockpuppet is not acceptable. See WP:ASPERSIONS. Unless and until someone is blocked from editing Arbitration pages (specifically or otherwise) they get to participate here without being harassed in the same way as every other editor in good standing. Thryduulf (talk) 17:15, 18 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      • @Bishonen: you don't appear to have asked me a question. Thryduulf (talk) 17:15, 18 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      • @Bishonen: I don't believe that someone of your experience doesn't understand the world of difference between accusing someone of being a sockpuppet, without presenting any evidence, and blocking someone for being an obviously disruptive account. I generally do not find it a productive use of my time to respond to such fallacious commentary. The answer to the question "Why is X not blocked" is almost always because no administrator has seen sufficient evidence that they both can be blocked in accordance with the blocking policy and should be blocked. If you think that someone who is not currently blocked should be blocked, then either block them yourself (if you can and it is clear enough from their username and/or contributions that only that and the block summary is needed for another admin to verify the block is correct) or present the evidence in an appropriate forum. Thryduulf (talk) 20:45, 18 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Indeed, avoiding boundary testing was the main concern, but it does not seem to have altogether avoided it. Probably for most subjects, not just this one, any subject-based restriction will always do that if people involved are greatly devoted to the general topic area and not willing to switch interests altogether, or if the people involved are likely to do boundary-testing because they think they have been treated unjustly and see this as the most effective way of challenging the decision, or if they are people who would find the process intrinsically attractive. The insistence above that some topics are not related would seem to indicate the broad bans are needed, (not, for example, that anyone is in favor of Campus Rate, but there are extremely strong disagreements both about the way of dealing with the problem and about individual cases). However, they do place a possibly over-extensive degree of discretion upon individual admins. On balance, I would not narrow the bans. DGG ( talk ) 14:16, 17 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Continued disruption in the topic area is a terrible reason to narrow the scope of the topic bans. GorillaWarfare (talk) 16:32, 17 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • @Squiggleslash: Changing the restriction from "any gender-related dispute or controversy" to "sexism in video games" is unequivocally a narrowing of the topic ban. I understand that there has been some uncertainty about the exact boundaries of the topic ban (some of which appears to be in good faith, some of which is probably not), but I always feel that the best approach with "broadly construed" topic bans is to leave a wide berth. The topics mentioned in this CaAR, Lena Dunham and campus rape, appear to me to be toeing the line, not attempting to steer clear of the topic area. GorillaWarfare (talk) 17:21, 17 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • @EChastain: The topic ban restricts editors from "any gender-related dispute or controversy," not from "gender." GorillaWarfare (talk) 16:21, 19 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • @Hell in a Bucket: I agree with others, GorillaWarfare has a conflict of interest... Perhaps I've missed something, but where have others brought this up here? And which topic area is it you feel I should recuse from, and why? GorillaWarfare (talk) 16:27, 19 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      • I assumed that "you have a conflict of interest" meant "you should recuse." I disagree that being willing to point out sexism when I see it, disagreeing with another arbitrator, or proposing a motion is indicative of COI, nor do I think I'm just causing issues here. GorillaWarfare (talk) 17:04, 19 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Agreed with GorillaWarfare, the current scope needs to be enforced, and boundary testing dealt with, not the scope narrowed in response to it. Courcelles (talk) 17:14, 17 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • What they said. Salvio Let's talk about it! 17:18, 17 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • We think Lena Dunham is a gender-related controversy. No, we don't think Lena Dunham is a gender-related controversy; we believe that a part of her biography deals with a gender-related controversy and edits to that part, and only that part, of her biography are covered by discretionary sanctions and by the various topic bans imposed during the GamerGate case. The rest of Dunham's biography is only covered by WP:NEWBLPBAN, but then again all biographies of living people are covered by it. Regardless of what Bernstein wrote, biographies of living women disliked by the American Right are not covered by the GG discretionary sanctions; and neither are the biographies of lesbian, gay, transgender, or gender-queer people. Specific parts of their biographies may be covered, if they deal with gender-related disputes, but, other than that, those biographies are only covered by WP:NEWBLPBAN. Salvio Let's talk about it! 20:18, 17 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm absolutely not inclined to narrow the scope of any restrictions here. Having watched several discussions over this issue, I've seen topic banned editors continue to blatantly engage in general discussion about GamerGate, let alone peripheral issues. This is normally done under the cover of an enforcement thread not against that editor, or clarification requests that are taken well beyond asking for legitimate and good faith clarification into lobbying and general discussion. If the disruption is still that ongoing, that is if anything an argument for more severity in the sanctions, not less. A topic ban means to drop the related items off your watchlist and stop having anything to do with them altogether, and if something is in a grey area, preferably, stay away, and at most, ask for clarification before touching it. This boundary testing must stop, but it certainly must not be rewarded by moving the boundaries. Seraphimblade Talk to me 18:18, 17 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • It's a bit far afield on the discussion of admin actions, but I don't personally see any trouble with robust administrative actions against new accounts whose only activity is to edit provocatively or disruptively in sensitive areas. That being said, such areas might also be ones that attract legitimate newbies, so we can't just say new editors may not participate in those areas at all, but we certainly can tell them they better tread very carefully. It's a hell of a balancing act, and as far as the questions asked by @Bishonen:, I'm very glad we have admins willing to wade into a mess like that. I certainly haven't seen anything I'd classify as anywhere near abuse of tools. Seraphimblade Talk to me 18:19, 18 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm also absolutely disinclined to change the topic ban. With 4 700 000+ articles to choose from on the English Wikipedia, it's not as if there's a shortage of other stuff to edit. Also, unless people stop dwelling on the topic ban (and I include the endless requests here and at WP:AE), we'll need to introduce more robust measures to make people disengage.  Roger Davies talk 08:36, 18 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Topic bans need to be broad by their very nature. Broadly defined, broadly construed; the whole point is to get editors to move totally away from the areas which have been causing them problems, not to allow them to nit-pick and sea-lawyer their way into editing as closely to the issue as they possibly can. Steadfast oppposition to any narrowing of scope from this quarter. Yunshui 雲水 13:56, 18 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]


Amendment request: Discretionary sanctions/article probation

Initiated by Rich Farmbrough at 02:56, 21 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Rich Farmbrough

I submit that the following remedies are outdated, and therefore:

  1. clutter the list of discretionary sanctions and article probations.
  2. provide unnecessary complexity and instruction creep.
  3. place unwelcoming templates on article talk pages.

None of these remedies have been invoked for several years, if ever, one case has no admin action for nine years.

I have no doubt that there are other outdated remedies but these certainly are.

I propose that these remedies be struck

1

Case: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/The Troubles

Remedy to be struck: Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/The_Troubles#Standard_discretionary_sanctions

Passed: 27 October 2011

Last admin action: Never (22 December 2010 for previous version)

2

Case: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan 2

Remedy to be struck: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan 2#Standard discretionary sanctions (Amended version)

Passed: 8 March 2013

Last admin action: 24 July 2009

3

Case: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Bluemarine

Remedy: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Bluemarine#Article probation

Passed: 1 February 2008

Last admin action: 1 April 2008

4

Case: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Brahma Kumaris

Remedy: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Brahma Kumaris#Article probation

Passed: 2 January 2007

Last admin action: 3 March 2007


5

Case: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Vivaldi

Remedy: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Vivaldi#Article probation

Passed: 9 November 2006

Last admin action: Never

6

Case: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Waterboarding

Remedy 1: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Waterboarding#Article probation
Remedy 2: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Waterboarding#General restriction

Passed: 5 February 2008

Last admin action: 3 December 2010

7

Case: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Neuro-linguistic programming

Remedy 1: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Neuro-linguistic programming#Probation
Remedy 2: [[Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Neuro-linguistic programming#Mentorship (lapsed)

Passed: c. 6 February 2006

Last admin action: 12 June 2006

8

Case: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Mantanmoreland

Remedy: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Mantanmoreland#Article probation

Passed: 13 March 2008

Last admin action: 29 May 2008


9

Case: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Free Republic

Passed: 29 March 2007

Last admin action: 29 February 2008

10

Case: Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Lapsed Pacifist 2

Remedy: Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Lapsed Pacifist 2#All articles related to Corrib gas controversy and Shell to Sea

Passed: 12 October 2009

Last admin action: 12 March 2011

11

Case: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Election

Remedy: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration#ElectionArticle probation
Remedy: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration#ElectionStatus of current editors
Enforcement: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration#ElectionContinuing jurisdiction

Passed: 1 July 2006

Last admin action: None

All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 03:03, 21 March 2015 (UTC).

Statement by Username

Statement by Username

Statement by {other-editor}

Other editors are free to make relevant comments on this request as necessary. Comments here should address why or why not the Committee should accept the case request or provide additional information.

Discretionary sanctions/article probation: Clerk notes

Discretionary sanctions/article probation: Arbitrator views and discussion

  • Comment: Thanks for looking at this, Rich. As there is another initiative afoot to tidy up old sanctions, it's best I think to combine this one, and that one, along with other amendments in a single housekeeping motion in a couple of month's time. We probably need to tidy up some of the old cases and that can be done then too. I don't agree with all your analyses incidentally: DS for The Troubles was used last December and Armenia-Azerbaijan 2 yesterday.  Roger Davies talk 04:29, 21 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: I'd also rather wait and do it all at once. Dougweller (talk) 10:14, 21 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]



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