Talk:Artur Beterbiev

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Nationality

Arthur by nationality Chechen. Why do you write that we have no nationality and change to Russian nationality? Takhirgeran Umar (talk) 21:46, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

Chechnya isn't an independent country, and therefore not a nationality. Nswix (talk) 21:59, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

@Nswix That is why I changed the formalization and even returned the Russian in the template. You do not have the right to delete sources from the article. Takhirgeran Umar (talk) 22:02, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

Including ethnicity in the lead violates MOS:ETHNICITY. Besides, his heritage is already sufficiently covered in the body of the article, it doesn't need additional sources. Nswix (talk) 22:06, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

So move the sources. I repeat, I changed the text and it is not written about his nationality. Takhirgeran Umar (talk) 22:08, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

I've moved them to the appropriate section. They're fine otherwise, and are useful in expanding upon what he identifies as. Previously it was left sort of ambiguous as to why he was born in Dagestan but identifies as Chechen. Actually.. it still kind of is. Did he grow up in Chechnya later on? Mac Dreamstate (talk) 22:17, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

The territory where he was born is under occupation, the former Chechen Republic. All languages of the world have the nationality of Artur Beterbiev. Deportation of the Chechens and Ingush, Aukh District Товболатов (talk) 05:32, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

@Mac Dreamstate Beterbiev is a Chechen, which he often says in interviews, and besides, he does not have a Dagestani nationality. Зелимханов (talk) 13:35, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

Mac Dreamstate If you don't mind, we can leave it that way. I respect your opinion as a boxing specialist, but in such a situation we can make an exception! Best regards Товболатов (talk) 18:50, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

Including ethnicity does not violate MOS:ETHNICITY though. It only states that it shouldn't be included if it's not notable. On the other hand, if the individual has repeatedly identified as being of an identity (such as Chechnya) then that absolutely deserves inclusion in the lead. Ola Tønningsberg (talk) 19:01, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

I couldn't disagree more. Exceptions to MOS:ETHNICITY ("ethnicity, religion, or sexuality should generally not be in the lead unless relevant to the subject's notability") are meant for political and social activists, to whom mentioning their ethnicity is central to their notability. Not boxers who don't even live in their homeland and fight under Canadian flags. Nswix (talk) 19:34, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

Agreed with User:Nswix. Mainstream media refers to Beterbiev as either Russian and/or Canadian, not Chechen. So he's not notable for his ethnicity. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 19:55, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

Arthur's ethnicity is Chechen, this needs to be indicated since he himself always indicates this. Aslan Merzho (talk) 09:34, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

it's in his 'personal life' section, where it belongs. Nswix (talk) 14:33, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

Artur Beterbiev is a Chechen and not a Russian or even more so a Canadian. The Chechens have been a well-known nation all over the world for centuries. Durdzuketia (talk) 18:50, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

I understand this is a sensitive subject, but the definition of nationality isn't open for interpretation. Wikipedia says that Chechnya "is a republic of Russia". Nswix (talk) 19:27, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

The world's leading media write that Artur Beterbiev is of Chechen origin.

https://amp.theguardian.com/sport/2022/jun/18/artur-beterbiev-ramzan-kadyrov-connections-joe-smith-fight Durdzuketia (talk) 19:52, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

No one's disputing his ethnicity. It's included in his Personal Life section. Nswix (talk) 19:53, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

The Chechen Republic is a state entity with its own parliament and president. This is stated in the constitution of the Chechen Republic. Durdzuketia (talk) 20:12, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

Chechnya is not a republic of Russia, Russia is Chechnya and such republics and autonomies as Chechnya, Russia is a federation of republics. The Chechen Republic is a state with its own laws that is part of the federation, this is just like saying that the USA is a subject of America. you there in America are so unenlightened in reality that you even call all Russians Russians))) in Russia there are hundreds of nationalities with their own languages, traditions and customs Durdzuketia (talk) 20:00, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

“I am Chechen. Born in the city of Khasavyurt. Of course, there are compatriotic feelings for the Dagestanis. I am quite okay when people in Dagestan call me a Dagestan, ours. There are no problems with this. I have friends, brothers, relatives in Dagestan. I'm quite okay with this. But when they say, especially abroad, that I am Russian, I answer that I am not Russian, but Chechen. I say this is normal. I am not Russian, but Chechen. Understand correctly, I am not saying that a Chechen is a supernationality. I am simply stating that I am Chechen. I don’t put my nationality above others,” Beterbiev said in an interview with the Obzor Press YouTube channel. https://www.sports.kz/news/ya-ne-russkiy-chempion-mira-sdelal-zayavlenie-o-svoey-natsionalnosti-posle-otkaza-ot-flaga-rossii Hbakko (talk)

Per MOS:IDENTITY, recent mainstream sources take precedence over what the subject identifies. In general, they refer to him as Russian. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 20:20, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

Chapter 1, Article 1 of the Constitution of the Chechen Republic, limitation “Чеченская Республика (Нохчийн Республика) есть демократическое правовое государство в составе Российской Федерации [1]" translated into your language "The Chechen Republic (Nokhchinskaya Republic) is a democratic legal state within the Russian Federation" This means that the Chechen Republic is a state within the Russian Federation, which has its own titular nation, its own language, Head of State, standard of the Head of State, anthem, flag, coat of arms - that is, the full attributes of statehood. Artur Beterbiev is a Chechen by origin and nationality. A huge number of peoples live in the Russian Federation, with their own languages, cultures, but not the full attributes of statehood. So, please demonstrate the specific nationality of the fighter! Alterbulat (talk) 21:37, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

Again, MOS:IDENTITY. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 21:40, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

If you guys are ever confused about whether something is a nationality or not, ask yourself 'what passport does someone from there have?' Chechnya doesnt issue passports, Russia does. Nswix (talk) 22:20, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

How does a person's country and ethnicity conflict in the preamble? Or does this person deny his Chechen identity? In all Russian-language media and Wikipedia he is listed as a Russian and Canadian fighter of Chechen origin. The information will not be superfluous, since A) It is equally important as the country of origin. B) Many may be misled because he is ethnic Russian. The preamble should cover such basic issues. Recent English source: https://eprimefeed.com/sports/the-imam-replaced-beterbiev-chechen-knockout-artist-conquers-professional-boxing/446593/.

And also a preamble on the official website introducing Beterbiev: https://beterbiev.com/biography.shtml Gamberd (talk) 16:54, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

If a Jew has a German passport, does that make him German? Alterbulat (talk) 20:05, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Yes. Undisputedly. Nswix (talk) 20:08, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

https://amp.theguardian.com/sport/2022/jun/18/artur-beterbiev-ramzan-kadyrov-connections-joe-smith-fight Bers95 (talk) 08:48, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

He competed for Russia in amateur international competitions, he fought most of his pro matches in Canada and is allowed to hold a WBC title because he became Canadian, so they should be mentioned in the lead. His Chechen origin is not superfluous and should be in the Personal life section, but not in the lead. You can add something about Kadyrov in the Personal life section, if you want.--Jahalive (talk) 01:05, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 May 2024

In the section for Bivol vs Beterbiev change the date from March 3rd to May 3rd Lukep989 (talk) 23:58, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

Done Nswix (talk) 00:01, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 2 July 2024

“Cruiserweight” needs to be added to “weight(s).” Artur Beterbiev’s first 5 bouts were above the Light-Heavyweight limit.

Source: https://boxrec.com/en/box-pro/646981 47.155.255.146 (talk) 14:11, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

 Done Geardona (talk to me?) 00:36, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

This edit request was made erroneously, and thus reverted. Beterbiev did not compete notably nor win any titles at cruiserweight—see MOS:BOXING/INFOBOX for usage. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 19:13, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 October 2024

“ 2007 Tournament in Kaliningrad (Ukraine-Russia) (Light heavyweight category, up to 81 kg.) victory over Usik Alexander (12:10).[11]” The line purposefully misspells the name of Oleksandr Usyk in a Russified derogatory manner. The citation is a provocative headline title from a non reliable source. The message of the event itself is correct but is completely out of context in the summary of the armature career section and does not follow the assigned timeline. Seems like a singular edit by a provocateur. Suggested change: complete removal of the sentence. CrabPirate (talk) 01:49, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

 Done – removed sentence. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 20:26, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

But once we dug deeper, it appears that much before the World Championship and the Olympics, Usyk and Beterbiev met during a lesser-known tournament. Held in Russia’s Kaliningrad, the event called ‘Amber Gloves’ reportedly featured Usyk and Beterbiev in a light heavyweight duel. In their first-ever fight, it was the future light heavyweight unified champion who emerged the winner (12-10). Here I found a source, this is indeed true. Mac Dreamstate Каменщик95 (talk) 18:11, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

Hi, excuse me, on what basis did you remove Artur Beterbiev's victory over Oleksandr Usyk in Kaliningrad! The editor who added it has been working at Wikipedia for 15 years and has a large number of edits, you are the new editor. He did not write Oleksandr Usyk name in a derogatory form (just a mistake), no need to invent. You can simply correct it there. There are many sources about this event.1, 2, 3, 4, 5. 176.193.139.179 (talk) 16:28, 26 October 2024 (UTC)