Talk:Sergei Baltacha (footballer, born 1958)

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Requested move

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was move. —Nightst a llion (?) ^{Seen this already?} 11:48, 20 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sergei Baltacha (senior) > Sergei Baltacha – The father looks more notable than his son, who doesn't even have an article. Conscious 06:39, 15 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sergei Baltacha (senior) is a Soviet international player (quite an accomplishment itself) and a bronze medalist at 1980 Summer Olympics (see other achievements in the article :) . Sergei Baltacha is currently a disambiguation page. I propose to make a move and use Sergei Baltacha Jr. for his son (looks like he's called that, see Google results).

Another question is which spelling of the first name should be used. Google gives 817 for Sergei, 135 for Sergey, and 2 for Serhiy. More important, his club calls him Sergei Baltacha. Conscious 06:39, 15 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Survey

Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~

Support if moved to Sergei Pavlovich Baltacha (see discussion below). David Kernow 12:37, 15 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Support move to either Sergei Baltacha or Sergei Pavlovich Baltacha. Conscious 15:11, 15 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Add any additional comments

Rename to "Sergei X Baltacha", where X is (one of) his middle name/s, hopefully not the same as his son? David Kernow 11:40, 15 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- A good idea. Father is Sergei Pavlovich Baltacha, and the son is, naturally, Sergei Sergeevich Baltacha (though I doubt many people in Scotland know it :) Conscious 12:22, 15 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  - Thanks for the name; I've now voted accordingly. Regards, David 12:37, 15 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Wife Olga

His wife's name is Olga and she competed in the pentathlon in the Olympics. So how come nobody knows her surname? Two Olgas - Olga Rukavishnikova and Olga Kuragina - won pentathlon medals for the Soviet Union in 1980, the same year that Sergey won bronze in the soccer. So was it one of those, and if so, which? Scolaire (talk) 21:01, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I think she's neither Rukavishnikova nor Kuragina, because they didn't compete in heptathlon, in which Soviet Olympians competed since 1988. I've looked through the list of Olympic competitors in heptathlon in 1988-1996, but didn't find any Olgas. Maybe she was a substitute or information that she competed in heptathlon is incorrect. I find this information too difficult to check and clarify, at least using sources available online. Cmapm (talk) 19:48, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That's a pity! But it just bears out my own experience. I would guess personally that the information that she competed in heptathlon is incorrect, but alas, guesswork is all we've got to go on. Thanks for trying. Scolaire (talk) 20:57, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Olga was Ukrainian pentathlonist; she had to miss the 1980 Moscow Olympics. [1] That's why her name is next to impossible to find today. - Altenmann >t 00:07, 23 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

[2]: Что стало причиной вашего разрыва с Ольгой?

- Мы рано поженились - ей было 20, мне - 21. Вместе были практически 19 лет. Но когда переехали в Англию, выяснилось, что мы чужие.

- Когда вы встретили Оксану?

- Познакомились, когда я приехал в Киев на работу в "ЦСКА-Борисфен". Она была юристом компании по недвижимости, а я как раз хотел сдавать свою квартиру. Это замечательная женщина, но года три мы видели друг в друге лишь друзей.

It is amazing how unsure information can mutate. ("chinese whispers"). Olga gave birth to Sergei in 1979 when she was 21 years old. That's why she missed 1980s olympics. I highly doubt she was in 1984 olympics with 4 yr old son. And quite doubt her taking part in 1976 olympics being 17 years old. Still, you may find statements that she represented USSR in olympics in pentathlon AND heptathlon! And various people keep nagging that wikipedia lacks credibility. May be, but at least wikipedia has fact checking policy and enforces it. Unlike journalists, who cut and "improve" information from each others. - Altenmann >t 01:02, 23 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

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Requested move 1 May 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

It was proposed in this section that multiple pages be renamed and moved.

result:
Moved. See strong consensus below to rename this article; however, there is no particular agreement as to what title to use. Under WP:NOGOODOPTIONS, as closer I must choose from suggested titles, and since there is no strong evidence given below that the father is the primary topic, the title will be Sergei Baltacha (footballer, born 1958). The dab page shall remain intact, and the son's article will also be boldly renamed in line with the father's. Kudos to all editors for your input, and Happy, Healthy Publishing! (nac by page mover) P.I. Ellsworth ed. ^put'r there 02:30, 17 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Links: current log • target log

This is template {{subst:Requested move/end}}

Sergei Pavlovich Baltacha → Sergei Baltacha
Sergei Baltacha → ?

– Although using the full name including the patronymic is customary in Russian / Ukrainian, he is much more commonly known as just Sergei Baltacha in English language sources, including most of those used in the article; see also here or here. Although the proposed title is currently used as a disambiguation page, this Sergei is far more notable (Soviet international, played at Olympics, World Cup and was a runner-up at Euros, played in top flight in USSR, England and Scotland) than the other entry, his son Sergei Jr (Scotland U21, club appearances mostly in Scottish second tier), and has roughly three times as many page views, therefore disambiguation can be handled by a hatnote as per WP:TWODABS. Jellyman (talk) 09:09, 1 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: Sergei Baltacha titles a page with content and so it must also be dispositioned. If this request is granted, then Sergei Baltacha may be deleted or moved to Sergei Baltacha (disambiguation) and tagged with {{One other topic}} in accordance with WP:ONEOTHER. P.I. Ellsworth ed. ^put'r there 22:20, 1 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I propose Sergei Pavlovich Baltacha → Sergei Baltacha (footballer, born 1958) and Sergei Baltacha Jr. → Sergei Baltacha (footballer, born 1979) to maximize disambiguation as per WP:NCSP. Both seem to use the WP:COMMONAME Sergei Baltacha.--Ortizesp (talk) 16:56, 1 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- I still prefer my idea, as I believe Sergei Senior is the primary topic; but if we do want to persist with the dab page, I think Ortzesp's proposed titles are an improvement on the current ones. Jellyman (talk) 17:35, 1 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. Giant Snowman 12:16, 3 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support Sergei Pavlovich Baltacha → Sergei Baltacha (footballer, born 1958) and Sergei Baltacha Jr. → Sergei Baltacha (footballer, born 1979) as suggested. Giant Snowman 12:20, 3 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Alternative proposal. A disambiguation page is not required here: there are only two possibilities and the nom claims a primary topic. We should therefore redirect Sergei Baltacha to Sergei Pavlovich Baltacha as {{R from short name}} and put a hatnote there: {{for|his son, a footballer born 1979|Sergei Baltacha Jr.}}. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 07:03, 6 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Page-move warring

@Andriyrussu: Page-move warring is against Wikipedia's editing policies as it is disruptive to the project. Can you please explain why you moved the page 5 times despite being reverted and without seeking consensus or other dispute resolution methods? I've reverted the page to its old title, and hope that you don't move it without establishing consensus first. (Pinging other involved editor @Woodlandscaley: to take part in this discussion) ---CX Zoom(^he/_him) (^{let's talk}|_contribs) 17:39, 22 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for intervening in this 'edit war' - although technically I've not edited anything!

We've been here before with Andriyrusso and his pro-Ukrainian project. Take a look at his contributions...over 1,000 edits in the past 11 days...every one concerning a Ukrainian topic. He's like a human-bot, spending hours on this each day - almost as if he's being employed to do it! Scant regard is given to Wikipedia rules and conventions in this relentless pursuit.

Let's be clear, this is not some casual editor who's had a few drinks and changed the odd name for a 'laugh' - this is a deliberate, organised and systematic attempt at de-Russification of articles to suit his agenda.

I've reverted his edits on Sergei Baltacha as no consensus has been reached on changing his name, after all these, years to...Serhiy!!?? Similarly, the USSR flag attributed to Baltacha (as an ex-Soviet international) on the Inverness Caledonian Thistle previous managers section, should not be getting changed to the flag of Ukraine without consensus.

The current pages are the 'default' - the onus is on Andriyrusso to explain why he thinks they should be altered!

Woodlandscaley (talk) 21:25, 22 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

FIRST OF ALL, as per WP:HEP I have the right as anyone else here to edit anything I want if it contributes to improving Wikipedia. I should not be restricted on which topics I should edit by a random guy.

SECOND, by referring to me as a "human-bot" and by accusing me of de-Russification and having a pro-Ukrainian agenda without any proof you are defaming and personally attacking me, which violates the rules of Wikipedia as per WP:NPA.

This is not a pro-Ukrainian project. Since 1991 he is a Ukrainian national and the only official language in Ukraine is Ukrainian. He is not a Russian citizen, he never represented Russia internationally, and Russian language is not recognized as official in Ukraine. Therefore his name should be transliterated from Ukrainian language, not from Russian. A good example is the name of Kyiv. For many years governments and media referred to the capital of Ukraine in the Russian language version of it, Kiev. However, recently the Ukrainian government requested English language global news outlets and several countries to refer to it in the Ukrainian language, not in the Russian. Check here KyivNotKiev. From this example the name of a personality which is a Ukrainian citizen should follow the same logic. Although he has been cited by several media by the Russian language version of his name, he has also been cited by the media and authors as "Serhiy Baltacha", as you can check here, here, here, here, here and here

About which flag should be attributed to him on Inverness Caledonian Thistle previous managers section I clearly explained here. No need to explain it here again. Andriyrussu (talk) 02:15, 23 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]