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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by JBchrch (talk | contribs) at 05:40, 22 August 2022 (→‎Closure of Business Insider RfC: ce). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.




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Are  you  listening  to  music  right  now? 🎵

Music is for the soul!
This is list of song recommendations from Wikipedians over the years. Feel free to add your own here! (please try to keep alphabetical order)

Contents

Feedback request: Society, sports, and culture request for comment

Your feedback is requested at Talk:Preparedness paradox on a "Society, sports, and culture" request for comment. Thank you for helping out!
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Help with HomeLight article?

Hi there. I noticed that you seem to be pretty actively involved with the Business WikiProject, so I was wondering if you might be willing to take a look at some suggestions that were proposed back in May for the HomeLight article. (I’d love to make edits myself, but I can’t because I’m a HomeLight employee and therefore have a COI.) Thanks very much. Ilovecats9669 (talk) 18:45, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

 Done. ––FormalDude talk 04:43, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment

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The Signpost: 1 August 2022

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Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

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NPP drive award

The New Page Patrol Medal of Merit
This award is given to FormalDude for 236 reviews and 17 in the July NPP backlog reduction drive. Your contributions played a part in the 9895 reviews that took place during the drive. Thank you for your contributions. Zippybonzo | Talk (he|him) 08:11, 3 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

i would like to be adopted.

i know it’s a weird subject, but i’m still new here in wikipedia. i have created some articles, some of them aren’t that great, but i would like to have advice and help. currently i am feeling frustrated when i create drafts for the mainspace but then some random user created the article that i wrote and ended up being useless. here’s an example: Born Pink (someone else created it in the mainspace) - Draft:Born Pink (i created in the draftspace)

but anyways, i hope you consider to adopt me in wikipedia.

JuanGLP (talk) 00:43, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @JuanGLP! I can certainly adopt you. I offer my adoptees two options for mentorship.
The first is an intensive program that covers many Wikipedia editing topics, including AfD, PROP, CSD, sources, GNG, SNG, copyvio tagging and etc., civility, and copyediting. It does require a lot of your time in reading the material/guidelines and working on the assignments. There is no time limit on completing the program, but most participants take around 3 months or more.
The second option is more informal. I can simply steer you through key areas you're having difficulty with, and answer questions whenever you encounter problems. We can do this for as long as you need.
Please let me know which works best for you. ––FormalDude talk 01:08, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@FormalDude! i think the second option would be best since i am starting school in two weeks.
if you’re okay with the answer i choose, then that’s amazing! — JuanGLP (talk) 03:23, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@JuanGLP: Sounds good. We'll use this page to communicate. ––FormalDude talk 03:44, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Tao of the Devil

Can you please explain why all of my work on said article was reverted without any reasoning? XXCochiseXx (talk) 04:16, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@XXCochiseXx: I don't believe the article passed WP:NALBUM. ––FormalDude talk 04:36, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@FormalDude: Apologies, but I don't understand. Are you referring to when the article was originally created that it didn't initially meet notability requirements according to WP:NALBUM? The sources I used were adequate and reliable, considering the rest of Bjork's album articles are lacking in references and/or are considered to be stubs. Would I need to create a duplicate article for Tao of the Devil by sending a draft through the AfC Submission process and replacing the existing redirect page? Any help is appreciated. XXCochiseXx (talk) 04:51, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@XXCochiseXx: A standalone album article is only appropriate when there is enough material to warrant a reasonably detailed article; and that has not been accomplished here, thus it should be merged/redirected into the artist's article or discography. ––FormalDude talk 05:41, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisting Hamidi AfD?

Hi, would you mind relisting the Hamidi AfD? I think "no consensus" closes ought to be reserved for admins since they are by their definition contentious. FWIW, the article still fails the required sourcing for sports articles, WP:SPORTCRIT #5, and at least one of the keep !votes had no basis in any policy or guideline so should've been discounted out of hand. The other two keeps were a "per above" !vote and a claim that sources show he played for Afghanistan (but the provided sources were deprecated sites or passing mentions). That leaves us with 3 deletes, 2 somewhat-valid keeps, and a draftify, and therefore warrants closer weighing of the arguments than is expected of non-admins.

Regards, JoelleJay (talk) 02:13, 5 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hi JoelleJay, you bring up some good points. I've relisted the AfD for you. ––FormalDude talk 04:48, 5 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you! JoelleJay (talk) 01:09, 6 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Administrators' newsletter – August 2022

News and updates for administrators from the past month (July 2022).

Administrator changes

readded Valereee
removed Anthony Appleyard (deceased) • Capitalistroadster • Samsara

Guideline and policy news

  • An RfC has been closed with consensus to add javascript that will show edit notices for editors editing via a mobile device. This only works for users using a mobile browser, so iOS app editors will still not be able to see edit notices.
  • An RfC has been closed with the consensus that train stations are not inherently notable.

Technical news

  • The Wikimania 2022 Hackathon will take place virtually from 11 August to 14 August.
  • Administrators will now see links on user pages for "Change block" and "Unblock user" instead of just "Block user" if the user is already blocked. (T308570)

Arbitration

  • The arbitration case request Geschichte has been automatically closed after a 3 month suspension of the case.

Miscellaneous

  • You can vote for candidates in the 2022 Board of Trustees elections from 16 August to 30 August. Two community elected seats are up for election.
  • Wikimania 2022 is taking place virtually from 11 August to 14 August. The schedule for wikimania is listed here. There are also a number of in-person events associated with Wikimania around the world.
  • Tech tip: When revision-deleting on desktop, hold ⇧ Shift between clicking two checkboxes to select every box in that range.
Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 08:44, 5 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Orphaned non-free image File:GTA Online The Contract - Dr. Dre album cover.jpg

⚠
⚠
Thanks for uploading File:GTA Online The Contract - Dr. Dre album cover.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --Minorax«¦talk¦» 12:12, 5 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

New Page Patrol newsletter August 2022

New Page Review queue August 2022

Hello FormalDude,

Backlog status

After the last newsletter (No.28, June 2022), the backlog declined another 1,000 to 13,000 in the last week of June. Then the July backlog drive began, during which 9,900 articles were reviewed and the backlog fell by 4,500 to just under 8,500 (these numbers illustrate how many new articles regularly flow into the queue). Thanks go to the coordinators Buidhe and Zippybonzo, as well as all the nearly 100 participants. Congratulations to Dr vulpes who led with 880 points. See this page for further details.

Unfortunately, most of the decline happened in the first half of the month, and the backlog has already risen to 9,600. Understandably, it seems many backlog drive participants are taking a break from reviewing and unfortunately, we are not even keeping up with the inflow let alone driving it lower. We need the other 600 reviewers to do more! Please try to do at least one a day.

Coordination
MB and Novem Linguae have taken on some of the coordination tasks. Please let them know if you are interested in helping out. MPGuy2824 will be handling recognition, and will be retroactively awarding the annual barnstars that have not been issued for a few years.
Open letter to the WMF
The Page Curation software needs urgent attention. There are dozens of bug fixes and enhancements that are stalled (listed at Suggested improvements). We have written a letter to be sent to the WMF and we encourage as many patrollers as possible to sign it here. We are also in negotiation with the Board of Trustees to press for assistance. Better software will make the active reviewers we have more productive.
TIP - Reviewing by subject
Reviewers who prefer to patrol new pages by their most familiar subjects can do so from the regularly updated sorted topic list.
New reviewers
The NPP School is being underused. The learning curve for NPP is quite steep, but a detailed and easy-to-read tutorial exists, and the Curation Tool's many features are fully described and illustrated on the updated page here.
Reminders
  • Consider staying informed on project issues by putting the project discussion page on your watchlist.
  • If you have noticed a user with a good understanding of Wikipedia notability and deletion, suggest they help the effort by placing {{subst:NPR invite}} on their talk page.
  • If you are no longer very active on Wikipedia or you no longer wish to be part of the New Page Reviewer user group, please consider asking any admin to remove you from the list. This will enable NPP to have a better overview of its performance and what improvements need to be made to the process and its software.
  • To opt-out of future mailings, please remove yourself here.

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Question from Thurulingas (10:12, 8 August 2022)

Hi there! I had a question I hope has a fairly simple answer: when I edited the URL of the William Byrd Singers website in a reference on the Stephen Wilkinson page, I expected the 'Retrieved <date>' property to be automatically updated, as when I attempted to change it manually the preview showed me that that was not the right way to do it.

So, 1. does that property get updated automatically (presumably as a timed batch operation), or

2. Is there something I need to trigger for it to be updated?

Many thanks for any response!

Rob Kerr | Thurulingas --Thurulingas (talk) 10:12, 8 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Thurulingas! The URL access date is an optional parameter and does not get updated automatically unless you use the citoid feature of the visual editor. You can update it manually by changing the access-date value in the source code of the citation. ––FormalDude talk 10:20, 8 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, that's marvellous. I've made that change.
As something of a follow-up, I noted a 'failed verification' on another reference for lack of a quote establishing Stephen's tenure as MD of the William Byrd Singers as 'nearly forty years.' What's the protocol for switching out that citation with one that does show his tenure as stretching from 1970 to 2009. Both the Byrds Website page on Stephen (https://www.williambyrdsingers.org.uk/Stephen-Wilkinson/) and Mark Flinn's book 'Sing Joyfully: The William Byrd Singers at Fifty (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sing-Joyfully-William-Singers-Fifty-ebook/dp/B08KTHQLSZ) show the dates. I don't think either has the exact quote 'nearly forty years' however. How should this be handled?
Apologies if these are fairly basic editing questions. I'm working through the 'Editing Wikipedia for Dummies' basic tutorials now! :D
Cheers,
Thurulingas Thurulingas (talk) 10:38, 8 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Thurulingas: The protocol for switching it out is be bold, which means if you can improve it, do so! You can delete the old citation and add the two new sources as citations, and lastly remove the failed verification tag. A source doesn't need to quote the text exactly, it just needs to verify what it's being used to claim. In fact, in most cases the text should not be an exact quote in order to avoid copyright violations. ––FormalDude talk 10:47, 8 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Women in Red

Hi there, FormalDude, and welcome to Women in Red. I see you are an experienced editor with an interest in girls' football and the disappearance of women. It's good to see you now intend to help us along with better coverage of women. Before you next create a woman's biography, you might like to look through our Primer which provides useful background. Please let me know if you run into any difficulties or need assistance. Happy editing!--Ipigott (talk) 06:47, 9 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you very much Ipigott! Looking forward to working with this project more. ––FormalDude talk 07:12, 9 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

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Feedback request: Biographies request for comment

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Question from Edmund Bentivengo (18:19, 10 August 2022)

Hello. I was reading about Eric Smidt "co-founder" of Harbor Freight Tools and noticed another anonymous Talk contributor pointed out the Wiki entry on Smidt read like a company press release. There is credible evidence from a USA Today network publisher that Smidt has a few skeletons in his closet that should be on his wiki. His father sued him for looting the company. Also the company claim that he began HF with his father Allan in 1977 contradicts the USA Today source which states Allan Smidt started the company in 1968 when Eric was only 8 years old, not 1977 when Eric was 16 and began working with his father. The wiki is apparently fundamentally wrong. What gives? --Edmund Bentivengo (talk) 18:19, 10 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Edmund Bentivengo: Eric Smidt has been blanked-and-redirected to the article about the company. ––FormalDude talk 07:06, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Question from Samkelo Matomemala (21:10, 10 August 2022)

How to edit a poem --Samkelo Matomemala (talk) 21:10, 10 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Samkelo Matomemala: You want to edit an existing poem on Wikipedia? Which one? ––FormalDude talk 07:11, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Talk:List of Korean restaurants

Just wanted to make sure you saw my ping at Talk:List of Korean restaurants. Thanks! ---Another Believer (Talk) 14:14, 17 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

 Replied at Talk:List of Korean restaurants#Recent Additions. ––FormalDude talk 14:34, 17 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks! Happy editing, ---Another Believer (Talk) 14:39, 17 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

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Draft: Josh Guberman

Hello FormalDude,

I have noticed that you rejected draft I have been working on very hard. May I know the reason? Let me know how I can fix it.

Thank you!

~~~~ Losojosazules (talk) 20:05, 18 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Draft:Josh Guberman Losojosazules (talk) 20:06, 18 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Hello @Losojosazules. Unfortunately I cannot find even one independent reliable source about Josh Guberman that provides the significant coverage required by Wikipedia's notability standard. ––FormalDude talk 20:09, 18 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Dear Formal Dude
I am completely confused by your message.
Mr. Guberman has had myriad articles and media coverage for over two decades.
What about these periodicals, newspapers and magazines:
The premier real estate magazine in the United States named “The Real deal” which Mr. Guberman has appeared on the cover and also quotes or covered in over half a dozen issues.
What about multiple articles in the most trusted name in journalism “the New York Times”
What about the most read and most significant luxury lifestyle magazines such as:
Hamtpons
Haute Living
Gotham
What about New York’s most widely distributed newspaper NY Post??
What about the myriad other top level periodicals he has appeared in or been quoted in:
New York magazine
Wall Street Journal
Wine spectator
We are trying to understand what is wrong with these media outlets for Wikipedia use?
I have seen hundreds of wiki articles about people who barely have two or three reputable sources yet I have provided dozens and despite that you are rejecting the page?
Please advise what I am missing.
Many thanks Losojosazules (talk) 21:51, 18 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Losojosazules: All that coverage pertains trivially to the subject, usually with only a one-sentence mention. There are not any RS that are primarily about Guberman. ––FormalDude talk 21:59, 18 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for your quick response. How about the article: The Real Deal "Guberman’s gamble" that is fully about Mr Guberman and his career. Same goes to: Haute Living Hard Core: Josh Guberman of Core Development Group, Mann Publication "The Guberman Group", The New York Times "Unearthing Hidden Space", New York Post "The latest status symbol for Hamptons elite is adopting a highway" or even interview for TV Living Large CBS New York and many more... I am really confused here.
Please advise.
Thank you for your time and all the help. I really appreciate it. Losojosazules (talk) 17:34, 19 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The New York Post is not reliable (WP:NYPOST), nor is Mann Publications or Haute Living. Interviews are not independent. The NY times article is not significant. ––FormalDude talk 07:45, 20 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Improve article draft

Hello@FormalDude. Regarding the article on professional bodybuilder, Ko Chandetka, that you rejected. How many more independent reliable references would you recommend that I add? I am new to this and I modeled it after other articles on bodybuilders of equal notoriety. I was planning to add additional people from the sport and improving some of the articles with little to no references would like to get it correct. One challenge is that its difficult to find online references many of the athletes from 20-30 years ago. This particular athlete was in all of the major bodybuilding magazines, TV shows, DVDs, etc.. its just difficult to find them. As an example I manually entered an ESPN show that he was featured on. I can certainly add more of these but given the depth of research and time was hoping for some guidance on how many would be suitable especially before creating additional articles. Any guidance that you can offer would be appreciated. I would say that I have about five already that would meet all the criteria with the other references being there just to support specific facts. Akragas480 (talk) 21:10, 18 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Akragas480: Needs at least two more sources that meet WP:SPORTCRIT. Right now the Chicago Tribune is the only one. ––FormalDude talk 07:30, 20 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Question from Varo532 (07:19, 20 August 2022)

Hey how come my info on wikepedia gets deleted. --Varo532 (talk) 07:19, 20 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Varo532, did you see the message on your talk page from Diannaa? Your contributions were plagiarism. ––FormalDude talk 07:23, 20 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Question from Varo532 on Tiny Rascal Gang (09:33, 20 August 2022)

How can I put the other half of the info where it says article under Allie’s and rivals to expand the paragraph to make it more readable. --Varo532 (talk) 09:33, 20 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Varo532: What do you mean? What's the "other half"? ––FormalDude talk 10:03, 20 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Question from Varo532 on User talk:FormalDude (15:35, 20 August 2022)

After it says the largest Asian street gang in the United states --Varo532 (talk) 15:35, 20 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Inappropriate revert and warning

Your revert of various recent edits of the Jonathan King article was in error, and your subsequent 'warning' was inappropriate.

Despite your claim, no content had been removed. Rather, content had been moved to more appropriate sections. Also, contrary to your claim the moving of the content was noted in the edit summaries. Also, your revert added MoS & punctuation errors, and rather hypercritically removed a small amount of content.

Your hypercorrection has been reverted. Please do not revert this change. Please take greater care in the future with both edits and posting inappropriate comments. 2A00:23C8:8E90:AE01:BC00:9404:314E:8CAC (talk) 15:44, 20 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Apologies, my mistake. ––FormalDude talk 19:36, 20 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Feedback request: Biographies request for comment

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NPP message

Hi FormalDude,

Invitation

For those who may have missed it in our last newsletter, here's a quick reminder to see the letter we have drafted, and if you support it, do please go ahead and sign it. If you already signed, thanks. Also, if you haven't noticed, the backlog has been trending up lately; all reviews are greatly appreciated.

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BloxyColaSweet

From, BloxyColaSweet
From, BloxyColaSweet

BloxyColaSweet (talk) 23:14, 20 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Untitled

  • Surely US president ordered you cancel our Vietnam ? You are so blind that you dont want I can work ?
  • US people always like racist, dont you ? So when you see Vietnamese texts, you want to cancel. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Betabum (talk • contribs) 01:41, 22 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    @Betabum: Retract your personal attack or you'll be reported. ––FormalDude talk 01:43, 22 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • You blasphemed Vietnam and you had better to have a confession. Why I must served you while you blasphemed my country ?
  • US invaded Vietnam twice and killed good people, but we forgave. However, today young Americans still see us as enemies that must be eliminated from the universe. He saw that I had bad English and attacked me.

Feedback request: Biographies request for comment

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Closure of Business Insider RfC

I see that you closed an RfC on the reliability of Business Insider's news reporting. You stated that Most concerns were with their clickbait content that is not associated with their news section. Would you please expand a bit regarding how you came to conclude that? — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 04:25, 22 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Red-tailed hawk: I think a lot of the arguments in this discussion did not acknowledge the precise scope of the question, which asked editors to evaluate the news section rather than Business Insider in general. Some of the complaints were about past mistakes, but those were refuted by the clear recent improvement of their coverage over the last few years. Ultimately there was a strong argument supporting their news coverage being reliable, and no good rebuttal to that. ––FormalDude talk 04:36, 22 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
There were several rational arguments made that the Pulitzer win for "Illustrated reporting" was not sufficient to ignore the issues that the source has had and the reputation that it maintained, including evidence from RS that the journalism of BI is in a significantly lower league than that of, say, Politico. With respect, I believe that totally discounting the evidence that individuals such as myself, VickKiang, JBchrch, and Chetsford presented was not warranted whatsoever and amounts to a WP:SUPERVOTE—something that is especially concerning as you have previously !voted in favor of the general reliability of Business Insider's culture section in a prior RfC. I would kindly ask that you self-revert your involved close. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 04:58, 22 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Complaints about their content outside of their news section must be discounted given the scope of the RfC. And I hardly think a comment from nearly a year ago makes me involved. I will not be reverting my closure based on these concerns. ––FormalDude talk 05:06, 22 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
IMHO, Red-tailed hawk's arguments aren't complaints about their content outside of their news section (?) Also, IMO my argument isn't the best, but IMHO Red-tailed hawk's one is good, and probably stronger than some of the Option 1 votes (I think one of them use The Factual, a flawed ref, at least according to my POV, because it rates Washington Examiner better than The Economist or The New York Times), and IMO some additional considerations could be touched on in the closure summary. Many thanks still for this quick closure and replies! VickKiang (talk) 05:09, 22 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Red-tailed hawk's comments complaints were not about BI's content outside of their news section, but much of JBchrch's and Chetsford's were. ––FormalDude talk 05:25, 22 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Only commenting once because I was pinged: when someone pointed out that the discussion was about the news section, I said that there was no news section to speak of, which is relevant to a discussion about the reliability of a news section. Chetsford's points were about BI as a whole, which is relevant its news section as a part thereof. JBchrch talk 05:40, 22 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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