User talk:Bravada/Archive

This user is exhausted and deprived of the will to live. However, he is also too exhausted to be actively willing to die.

Achtung! Umleitung!

Hello! If you come to place a DYK notice on my talk page, I am most obliged and kindly ask you to add the notice to the collection. Thank you!

Welcome!

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You recently created a sandbox for yourself. Unfortunately, you created it in the main namespace, where articles go. I've moved it for you, and you can now find it at User:Bravada/Sandbox. I hope this helps. ➨ ❝REDVERS❞ 14:58, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Welcome!

Nice to meet you here! FSO car factory is awaiting your contributions - you could use the text from that really long GMI post... he he ;) --Dmitry 18:00, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

GMI

Sorry for the lack of comments, I'm too busy with work... maybe I'll find some time after the weekend. --Dmitry 19:12, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. ed g2s • talk 23:00, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Ming, going through and looking for GM related articles to add to / edit. --Michitakem 14:21, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Recognition

To Bravada, for being able to articulate what I wasn't able to. On behalf of all people who learn using alternative methods, I award you this well earned barnstar Stude62 19:23, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Note: Bravada has said that he really didn't deserve this (and) taht it would be OK for me to remove the barnstar. Kindness, such as his, deserves to be mentioned and duly noted. Thus I will not remove the barnstar! Stude62 19:53, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Opel templates

See User_talk:Pc13#Opel_timeline for the reworked templates. THanks for the suggestions! --SFoskett 14:09, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Award

Thank you very much for the award you gave me, I appreciate it a lot! =) --ApolloBoy 01:00, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Liftback

Hi - thanks for communication - yes, I am East side of the Atlantic and in the UK we do not have a term 'liftback', so far as I know. We use the term 'hatchback' for a car-like vehicle with a lifting rear hatch (usually including the rear window). We use the term 'estate car' for the 'vertical back' type of vehicle, which is designed for load-lugging. What would you like to propose, for this entry (which must be relevant to many automobile articles)? I look forward to the discussion. - Ballista 06:52, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Seems like a useful way forward - I look forward to seeing developments. - Ballista 07:35, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

I really liked the liftback article. However, I'm not sure it won't earn a 'proposed merge' template, to be combined with hatchback. I've taken the liberty of making a few minor edits and I stumbled over the caption edit (see 'history')! Let's see what happens ... - Ballista 11:14, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

As for 'liftback combi-coupe', I have no objection - ref. the edit I did in Saab 900, of course I woudn't have deleted your 'liftback' annotation - that would have been unfriendly and very un-WP! Cheers! - Ballista 11:17, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

I've just read your message(s) - a) Your English is GREAT! b) I don't feel that I'm any sort of authority to grant or to deny you the 'green light' to integrate the liftback article - I can't see why not, though. c) I am afraid I didn't follow the Toyota Camry issue. What exactly were you asking me - I'm not sure how to apply the automatic translation from Google, to the Japanese Toyota article to which you referred. Ballista 11:30, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Ref. 'Black Hole', yes, it would cause me to crack up, too! I've not ventured into Japanese translations yet - I suspect it's fll of pitfalls like the one you've discovered. Could be worth a 'trivia' entry but might be removed as being a bit POV and negative! Oh well. Ballista 11:41, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

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RfC on Take Me Higher

The RfC on Take Me Higher was begun by Karmann today. I have asked him to sign it, considering that he started it. Could you hop on over and take a look at the content of my addition (but please, do not alter it) and if you agree with I have said, you may sign in the appropriate area. You may also include any issues that you have with his contributions. But I have to emphasize that I want this RfC to be one that both shares the problem with the community, but takes the high road in aspects. I've left the same message for Apollo Boy.Stude62 17:14, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Hello, Bravada!

I live in Russia and specialises on japaneese car's catalogues. My aim is to create a great catalogue of all japaneese cars in the world. The large problem for me is to summarise an information about all specifications of cars which were prodused in european and american markets (especially in Europe). I find much informations in Wikipedia and want to share of mine. I can offer some fotos (copyrighted) of Isuzu cars for speedy completing of encyclopedia. I hope to be accepted to Wiki community.

With the best regards, Shyrish.

GMI project

Dmitry, you appear to be online. Perhaps you might drop in at the GMI subpage? Thx --Bravada 00:18, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry but it looks like I won't be available for anything but very quick'n'dirty contributions until at least mid-May (I'm currently preparing my unexpected ten day foreign vacation which starts in less than two weeks). --Dmitry 21:59, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Ming is in the house, as user Michitakem. -- Michitakem 9:17, 20 May 2006 (CST)

Bravada, regarding what you said about the Jackaroo/Monterey - I remember that for a time there was a 4x4 that Holden sold a while back called the Nullarbor. What was it? Was it another version of the Jackaroo? And why is it that the Holden Rodeo redirects to the Isuzu Rodeo even though the Holden Rodeo is just another version of the D-MAX/i-Series? -Daniel Blanchette 00:54, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Isuzu Aska article

Hello again, I see you left a message on my talk page regarding the Isuzu Aska article. Anyway, the reason why I listed all of the cars related to the third and fourth generation Aska is because there weren't much to begin with; I wouldn't dare list all of the cars related to the J-body Aska, because that would be an even bigger list. After all, most of the North American J-cars were simply redone Chevrolet Cavaliers, whereas the Opel Ascona C, Vauxhall Cavalier and Camira are different in one way or another. Also, I added the other infoboxes just to give a general overview of the second through fourth gen Askas. Hope all of this answers your questions. --ApolloBoy 05:40, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I edit in a higher resolution - 1152 x 864 to be exact. As for where I got the "Florian Aska" name, I looked at Isuzu's corporate history page. --ApolloBoy 23:48, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Ford E platform

That the E platform is Volvo-based comes from numerous media sources, but I'm not sure I believe it. The specific models and timeline came from Automotive News' Product Cycle report. Again, all insider stuff and not necessarily true. --SFoskett 13:33, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

To expand on this, witness the numerous media outlets that still insist that the new Ford Mustang's Ford D2C platform is based on the Ford DEW platform... And thanks for the award! It's on my main page now! --SFoskett 14:03, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Chair HKDRT award

Hi Bravada. Thanks for the award. Not quite sure if i understood it correctly, but I was wondering which page in your opinion might be the best Wikipedia article ever. Thanks and happy editing -- Chris 73 | Talk 16:46, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Thank you

Thanks for your good wishes on my birthday. Bobo is soft 20:38, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Wow thanks! I love that you noticed, I was surprised actually. Wikipedia really does have great users. Bobo is soft 22:12, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks

I'm relatively new to Wikipedia, brought on here by a hard-core Wikier. Yes, I've been changing up that Corolla page, it has alot of information, and it'll take alot of time to "perfect". Thanks for the greeting!

Mr krisp 09:11, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

sorry if this isn't the right place to put this, but kewl, thanks. Wan30ate 14:59, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Japanese articles

Bravada, feel free to send me links to the Japanese articles you want translated. If there's a ton of technical jargon and numbers I may hesitate, but if its basic car info, no prob. -Ming--Michitakem 20:40, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Images in signatures

For what it's worth, images in signatures are discouraged for a number of reasons, listed at that link. Also for what it's worth, users seeking more personalized signatures more typically experiment with unusual HTML entities, colors, fonts, or CSS instead. Some examples:

• Phaedriel ♥ tell me
• Cyde↔Weys
• ^BlankVerse

--Interiot 03:12, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Lancia Template

Hello, it's CBecker. Thank you for explaining the nuances of the template specific to Lancia. I am going to attempt a Volkswagen template using a similar style. But I don't want you to think I am infringing on your creative and technical efforts when I say this. My goal is not to change a few words and call it my own. My goal is to use your template as the preverbial "bowl of fruit" from which to study as an example while creating an interpretation based on it. And when completed, to submit it for approval/use without asking for credit of any kind. You are correct when you say there is a lot of formatting involved! However this is not intimidating for me as disecting code is the easiest way for me to learn it and I have done so on various personal projects in the past. The Wikipedia code is what is currently throwing me off the most, but no worries as it does not seem too complex. And I still have some memory of HTML and CSS for the rest of it. If you have any further concerns, please do not hesitate to address them. --CBecker 02:13, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

lmao! Well hello again Bravada! Good to see I'm not working alone on anything here, hahaha!

Thank you very much for your comments. I think I've got a good start on this. I'm very interested in the Volkswagen model line and history, so that's why I started with this company. I was trying to do as much as possible in one day Saturday, so I rushed some things (with the intention to polish it all up before submitting it), and certainly would not yet call it complete.

In regards to the image: it can be changed at any time by simply re-uploading. I personally own both a digital camera and a Volkswagen, so I can take a *good* shot of the grille emblem no problem. The image I put in there was more for an example for myself to get the size and basic look right. I'm assuming you are talking about the photo of the rear of the B6 Passat Wagon, not the text "Volkswagen" or "Volkswagen AG." I actually did make those both from scratch (not that hard, haha).

In regards to the layout: thank you for pointing out my category mistake. I'll fix it immediately. Oops! As for "further splitting/rearranging models in the template for easier navigation," if you have more specific suggestions I'm all ears. I took a look at the old, clumsy template and decided I'd clean it up considerably. I went through and changed some of the pipe link names, put them all in chronological order of their release, and read at least parts of almost every model page, on the English and German Wikipedias (to make sure I wasn't screwing anything up). Comparing the old and the new, I think you'd agree there is noticeable improvement. However, like I said, it sounds like you might have some hints. Please share!

In regards to my notes: well I certainly did not expect anyone other than myself to be reviewing those, haha! There are a few I definitely want to do, but the majority of them I simply wanted to throw out as ideas on the respective talk pages. Referring back to where I said I was trying to get as much done as possible in one day, I couldn't have read every single page thoroughly or become an expert on every model overnight! That's why I wanted to simply see how others felt about those ideas.

My reason for wanting to split the Polo and Derby is because they are separate articles on the German Wikipedia (and Volkswagen being German I figured they'd know better than an American who has never even seen a Polo or Derby in real life). Their take on it made it seem to me that there was a definite distinction between the two models, whereas the Santana is basically just a different trim level or non-distinct variation of the Passat. The Golf and Jetta are considered distinct, whereas a Jetta Wagon or a Golf Variant are simply non-distinct variations or different trim styles. However, you claim the Derby "didn't have too much life of its own." If that is the case, then I would agree to keep them merged, however I'd like more than one opinion, no offense!

Also, note that the Caddy is actually many models and trims etc., rather than one distinct model line. I consider the first Caddy to be a non-distinct trim/variation of the Golf I and Citi Golf. The same for the second and third (other non-distinct trims/variations of yet different model lines and even companies). However the fourth Caddy, if I understand correctly, is its own model line with many of its own variations. I would make a proposal that the Caddy page be devoted simply to the model line by the actual name "Caddy" (Caddy IV), and merge the non-distinct trims/variations (Caddy I-III) into their respective model pages. If I am unaware of some reason that makes this a bad idea, someone will definitely let me know! Although if I discover that it is in fact produced by VW Commercial Vehicles I will simply remove it from the template altogether and worry about it later!

Good point about separating the CrossFox. I didn't notice how many other model lines had similar variations. I was simply making a note of how different they appeared from each other in the photos.

Also good point about the Country Buggy. There is almost no information (and zero pictures) on Wikipedia about this. If it really was a very different vehicle than the Beetle, I would certainly not merge it with the Type 1. "You don't have Kubelwagen merged into the Beetle do you?" No, but I would support a merge of the Type 1 Cabriolet with the Type 1. Although I don't think the Type 1 Cabriolet even has its own page.

"IMHO, the rule of the thumb should be the amount of information, and currently the info on the Fox page regarding SpaceFox and CrossFox does not merit separate articles." To humbly disagree, I think the rule of thumb should be each separate model line gets its own page, regardless of the amount of information (the idea is to expand the information on each model, yes?), and simple non-distinct variations/trims redirect to their respective model lines (ex: Jetta Wagon -> Jetta). By the way, I didn't know you knew so much about Volkswagen? I think I will enjoy working on this project more knowing I've got someone to give me good pointers along the way. Thank you!

--CBecker 19:31, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

I certainly do not mind the help of a more experienced Wikipedian looking over my shoulder on this project. I could not have asked for a better favor. You are welcome and encouraged to keep on doing exactly what you have been doing. Your description of the Wikipedians involved on the automotive project is somewhat discouraging. I would like to help change that if there's any way that I could. Maybe if just keep working and you keep helping we could get some more people to join in the collaboration and start with that, huh?

Articles: Yes I do understand your point. However it was not my intention to honor any model by praising it with subjective material. I'm not sure if that's what you meant by that or not. Regardless, I think the idea of starting one page per model line is a good idea because it basically personifies the goal of Wikipedia: to build and expand on a single idea to form an ever-increasing database of knowledge. Just because a particular model might not have that much information on it today, doesn't mean that tomorrow an expert on that model won't come along and have a lot to say about it. But I'm in perfect agreement that a simple variation of the base model (like a station wagon version or hatchback version) SHOULD be merged with the main model's article UNLESS it really did live a life all its own (Golf and Jetta are perfect examples).

In regard to your comment about the Santana: I would again like to point out (assuming you are still referring here to my notes) that before merging or splitting an article on a model and its variations, I promise not to simply dive right in and change it (unless I happened to be an expert on the matter). Regarding the Santana, CrossFox, etc., I had not even heard of them until Saturday, which certainly does not put me anywhere near the level of expert on the matter. Before carrying out any bold measures like merging/splitting an article, I will first make a proposal on the talk page and see how others (with better knowledge and expertise on the subject) feel about it.

In regard to your comment about the Caddy: Again you surprise me with your knowledge of Volkswagens! You may be right about the Golf I Caddy. But even if that is the case, I would still recommend limiting the Caddy article to the Mk1 and Mk4. The Mk2 and Mk3 seem to be nothing more than variations of other cars (which should therefore be merged with their appropriate articles).

In regard to the Template: I know exactly what text VW uses in their marketing. It's called "VW Futura" font. I read somewhere it is unavailable anywhere. However, I am always of the opinion that the Internet is an infinitely large space, where anything and everything can be made "available" depending on how determined you are. I found the next closest thing, your basic "Futura Bold" font. And that is what I used. Now, if you think you could locate "VW Futura", it would take me all of ten minutes to redo the text "Volkswagen" and "Volkswagen AG". I will continue looking so that I can perhaps find it before finalizing the VW template. Colors are also easy to redo. I have a program that tells you the HTML value (and several other values) of any color which the tip of your cursor passes over. It would take no time at all to pull the exact color values off any VW picture I find that fits better than the Passat one I have on there right now. But I think I will wait to change the colors until after I have a better photo. Also, for the model lists, well I think having them in order of release is more educational than alphabetical order. Subdividing into classes might work but it raises the question of where the list of models would then be relocated to, and to answer that question I would recommend a template as the most convenient solution. A template that has to link to another template probably isn't doing its job, so the matter should be resolved by simply modifying the original. I don't think what I have here seems too difficult or frustrating to navigate, probably based simply on the fact that the list of cars does not excede 50 different models. But I don't really want to force that idea, because it would make me sound biased toward my work! I of course would much rather make something everybody could say "well, I like the way that looks" rather than something I alone could be proud of! If you have no objections to copying what I have now and making your own adjustments on your user page, I would definitely encourage it! We might reach completion much faster if we have more than one person collaborating on it.

My goal with this template is that once it is perfected, to simply take it, fill in a different picture, title, and colors, and use the same layout for all the companies under Volkswagen AG. So think of this as not only working to complete a template for VW, but also for Audi, Bugatti, Bentley, Lamborghini, Seat, Škoda, and VW Commercial Vehicles. And when people see all that work done, I'm hoping it will motivate more people to collaborate and revamp more templates and articles within the automotive project. Maybe that's a kind of out-there goal, but at the very least we'll have some cool new templates huh? Haha, and so far it's not like I've spent too much time or effort on this, so I don't feel like I'm wasting my energy. Thanks for your continued correspondence!

--CBecker 23:04, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for correcting my spelling

Dear sir or madam, thank you for correcting my spelling mistake in the article about Ms. Carola Häggkvist. I was taught to type the letter i before e. I keep typing recieve. My English and spelling is not good.

I have a hard time learning and writing English.

Cheers, Starion Wolf

Hi, did you see my answer to your questioin? I typed it on my user page. I can copy it and paste it on this page too. Bye --Starionwolf 03:04, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Lancia

I would work on the name section if it can be enlarged. I would also give info on body parts. And inform yourself of other articles on cars to see what they have that your article doesn't. Lincher 16:02, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Many thanks...

Hi Bravada, Many many thanks for correcting things on the Jane Comerford page and also for all your hints and tips. Indeed, you are right in all you've said and I really appreciate that you sent me that message since I am fairly new and actually have no clue about the laws and copyrights here...- I'm stil learning and I promise I'll try to improve things :) I have never edited on Wiki before and just did it the same way I learnt it in school ages ago...that's why I put a few inappropriate comments in it. I'll take them off as soon as possible! I know Jane a little, I have met her once, went to a couple of concerts before and I'm a great admirerer of her music. She's a great musician, has a wonderful voice and composes lovely songs. She deserved the success she has right now in Germany! I was so pleased to see you started this article! Thank you for all your contributions and your kindness!!! Kind regards Jenny

JennyHelmer has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling to someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Smile to others by adding {{subst:smile}}, {{subst:smile2}} or {{subst:smile3}} to their talk page with a friendly message. Happy editing!

Fiat Brava/Bravo/Marea/Stilo article etc...

Hi Bravada, tomprice here. My old login details got lost in the virus on my previous computer,so I'll try and find them. The Marea article in particular seems scanty

Cheers

Abarthaddict 15:51, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Fiat Marea article

Bravada - I've updated/improved the Marea article; I'm afraid it's still a bit short, so maybe you could add something to it?!

Leave a message if you manage to whack up something. Cheers.

Abarthaddict 06:17, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks

Alright. I too had a brief look at the Stilo/Brava/Bravo articles and decided to improve a Renault Modus one - all it said was there might be a 'Grand' version. (?)

Oh, and by the way, feel free to edit the engines part (I don't mind at all). I found that the powerplants listed were terribly out-of date, so I updated them and restructured it a bit.

I'll try and find a link. In the meantime, I've got myself and interesting project. Dunno if you're interested in it, but this kinda caught my eye Perucac

You have my permission (alright, you could do, if you don't like that phrase.) to replace that dreadful picture with something much more flattering.

Right, Bravada, let me set things straight. I appreciate you are under considerable stress, but that was rather uncalled for. I was merely suggesting that the picture used in the original article wasn't the best, and could be replaced. I suggested the Marea on the Brazil homepage, but it seems you took me too seriously - maybe I can get a contact in South America to get me a few pics of a black one, and then that'll be that; we'll have our pictures. BTW - I've deleted the Rumours section on the Renault Modus (can't be fecked to scan and article in from an Auto Express mag - and it doesn't appear to be online anyway). I've found no such article for the Grand Modus either, so that's that stuffed.

Abarthaddict 20:20, 5 June 2006 (UTC) Abarthaddict 18:04, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

User:Bravada/T200 proposition

Bravada, all I did was correct a spelling mistake, i.e. Columbia (a old and somewhat Colonial-era poetic version of America, named after you-know-who) vs. Colombia (which is what I think you were trying to say, also named after you-know-who), but yes I agree with what you say. -Daniel Blanchette 13:31, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

I'll try and do that, but if DmitryKo is still around, have him check the article as well. -Daniel Blanchette 17:04, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

How's this for an image for the article?

[1] -Daniel Blanchette 16:19, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Oh, I see. Anyway, the article looks good. Why not move the image that you mentioned in the first box, not the "1st Gen" box? Anyway, the reason why I mentioned that image was because I haven't seen any photo of the Aveo's rear! It's all the front! -Daniel Blanchette 17:31, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Edit conflict

Hi, sorry about the edit conflict, I didn't get the "Edit Conflict" message that usually appears so I didn't know what was going on, please feel free to add to the article. Thanks. Regards, Signature^brendel 23:31, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Daimler-Chrysler

Hi, I noticed you added the {{fact}} to the statement that recent court decisions have made it apparent that the Chrysler was bought by Daimler-Benz. The source is actually another wiki article. Wouldn't that suffice as a source? Also, why did you remove the Jag pic, the LS and Jag share the same angine and manufacturer, yet their VIN makes the LS domestic and the S-Type import, So...? Signature^brendel 19:42, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Car portal news

Great job with the Stratus and TVR writeups! --SFoskett 15:06, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Household

You, see I can spell it correctly! ;-) Thank you for correcting my spelling mistake. The problem is that I just copied "Houshold" and pasted it wherever I placed my wiki links. I really appreciate it! Signature^brendel 21:19, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Well thank you and I actually found your editing summaries very amousing and do agree that household and human being can live together peacefully. Also, the professional and managerial class articles actually are written in regards to the US upper middle class, so there probably is some POV as they cover phenomenon (sp?) as defined in the US. Thanks for the spell check and those funny comments! Signature^brendel 21:30, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I see but I really do think they're good articles. I do however see the point of the policy- I guess I am not as good in following policy as a German should be, that's probably the American in me, eh ;-) So, why don't you be the judge when they reach GA status, as the articles are on your watchlist. Oh, and feel wlecome to contribute! Signature^brendel 03:36, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't feel like being a reviewer, as I became involved with the articles. Not only I did some (minor) reviews, but also I don't feel impartial after getting involved with this whole debate. I will think it over though and will try to give suggestions how I think they could be improved. Until then, why not place them on the GA nominations list and wait for some really impartial reviewer to take a look at them. I actually find it much more rewarding (which is the real guilty pleasure we are yearning for editing WP, don't we) to have an article promoted by somebody I don't even know, than by solicitating praise from colleagues. There quite many involved GA reviewers who will surely take a thorough look at the article and give you some insightful suggestions there, promoting it or not - that's my experience at least. Bravada, talk - 03:42, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Sure, good idea. I wasn't really soliciting and am sorry if that's how my posts read, it was just a friendly suggestion that your advice is more than welcome. Regards, Signature^brendel 04:12, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your review. Just so you know, I didn't actually write most of the class articles. I have taken your suggestions into consideration and have come up with improvements that need to be made. However, as you know I am involoved in discussions and editing pretty much all over wiki so that might take a while, but others user might see our discussion and act upon it. BTW: The article is based on the works of Max Weber and Paul Fussel, both American so I probably won't be able to globalize it. Nevertheless thanks for going through the trouble of giving a peer review. FYI: You misspelled household ;-) Regards, Signature^brendel 23:15, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

GA

Okay I just read over this discussion and have come to the conclusion that I really didn't express myself very well as to why I didn't follow the GA policy. First, I saw that one article I was working on suddenly got a GA tag in the disucssion page after two years in existance. I though, well this user just added the tag, coming to the conclusion that user just come by a good article and add the GA tag if they think its appropriate. I didn't know about the nominations process until you told me, and by then I was used to just tagging my own articlea unwilling to wait for another user to do so. In other words, your the first one to tell me of the nominations process. Just so you know the whole story. Best Regards, Signature^brendel 00:48, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Gosh, is this discussion spreading everywhere. Now, thanks for telling me that, this explains a lot. I of course assumed you knew the procedure, and hence I said what I said the way I said :D I am happy we're finally there. Now I am beginning to have a huge backlog here, now you put the passenger vehicles under PR, this is going to be a massive task... Bravada, talk - 00:53, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Lincoln MKS

We are sorry you did not like the article on the Lincoln MKS because of "excessive speculation" and that it seems to "argue a point rather than inform the user". I beg to differ - all the material was extracted from the Ford Press Releases on the subject, and is properly cited with references to authoritative sites. Readers are warned that the article represents a "future automobile" that is subject to change as production nears. Your additional warning banner smacks of a "drive-by" vandalism edit with a hidden agenda, and even if well intended, has the effect of shooting down an actually informative article about an upcoming car. Where are the constructive critical examples of violations? Did you read the Ford Press Releases, or check the references? Or did you assume we all just made it all up out of thin air? We find your tone insulting and demeaning. If you are going to be consistent, and true to your own "wikipedia does not cover future" thesis, then you must add the same self-made banner to all the articles about all upcoming and future vehicles, including the unreleased 2007 models, and all upcoming events: movie releases, political events, etc. Your work is cut out for you. Thanks for your suggestions though, and we will look for the flaws you claimed and try to fix them. --T-dot 12:33, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Template

Hi, While I don't agree 100% with the tagging of the MkS article I think its useful to have a template to warn users of specultaion, so here it is: {{Speculation}}. Also I have taken this debate to the Wikiproject since I would like to hear more on the issue from other users, espcially as I am able to see your point and T-dot's. Best Regards, Signature^brendel 22:28, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Nissan Y30/Cedric/300C

Managed to rework the intro but there's no way I can do the whole article. Please pop in and revise it a little - I can't think of nowt else that can go in.

Abarthaddict 17:58, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Talbot Tagora

Hi Bravada, I decided to copy-edit the above article in its entirety. I hope this well help with the FA nomination. I think if you can find one or more pictures of a Tagora with better licensing rights, you just might get your FA! I will change my vote to 'support' soon. Outriggr 06:27, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

• P.S. If you can't find such a photo, then all the more reason to use the current one and add the "Fair use" rationale, eg. "Public domain photos of this vehicle are not commonly available". Outriggr

I can't express how much I want to thank you! I am a bit under the water now, but I'll get back to that ASAP. It was the best surprise I could ever dream of - somebody actually taking care of the Tagora article when I couldn't :D Thanks an unspeakable lot! Bravada, talk - 00:17, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Lancia template

Hi, I've been trying to build up the Mitsubishi template for a while now, and while I think the content is OK, I'm not nuts on the very bland, Wikipedian style of it. I was very impressed with the Lancia template when you "unveiled" it, as it was exactly the style I'd been aiming for. However, after User:Ed g2s had his logo purge in April, I was wondering - has this template "sneaked under his radar", or have you had any official confirmation that a photo of a logo (especially one where the logo isn't presented at the "correct angle") is OK? Regards, -- DeLarge 21:42, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I came accross this photo at the Italian Wikipedia and this was my inspiration to create a whole template around it. If you'd click on it, you'd see it's actually a free (GNU-licensed) photo of a Lancia, or more specifically it's grille fragment featuring the logo. Which is why I believe there is no reason why it can't be used and it hasn't attracted any hostile actions (yet :D ). The photo is of absolutely superb artistic quality, and it also includes the tones which are what Lancia uses currently in its marketing, and I used as background colors. I also tried to replicate the Lancia logotype with a serifed font.

So, what you need is basically a super photo of the Diamond Star and a great idea for a layout inspired by Mitsu's marketing :D One fellow WikiProject member already tried this with VW, and this is not that easy, unfortunately... But do try, it's certainly worth it, I believe creating the Lancia template was one of the most satisfying things I ever did on WP! Regards, Bravada, talk - 00:16, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Talbot Tagora photograph

Have a look at my talk page User talk:Ericd. Ericd 20:35, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

I have send a mail to the French 604 & Tagora club asking for photographs. As of today I'm waiting for a response. Sorry for anouncing it so late but as it wasn't enough to be a bit overbooked a stupid mistake destroyed a phone cable cutting phone and internet for 900 France Télécom customers incuding me ;-). Ericd 14:09, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Tagora article

The Tagora article is improved, but still needs work on copyediting. The reason I don't go through and fix everything myself is simply that I don't have time to do that for every article I review. The majority of articles brought to FAC need copyediting; if FAC reviewers had to copyedit each of them, it would be impossible to keep up with the nominations. Ask around; there might be a good copyeditor at a related wikiproject who has time to work on the article. Oh, and what I meant about the citations was not that the changes you made weren't good, but rather that you should make sure that the footnotes I didn't check are also good--which you may have already done, and if so, great. --Robth^Talk 03:12, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Mfo

We need to keep an eye on this guy... it seems that now, not only is he bent on inserting his link SPAM into the top of some pages, he's also posing as an admin, and claiming that people will be blocked if they remove it! I checked out his site the first time he did it.. (it's pretty poor) - and sent him an e-mail asking him politely to stop inserting his link on WP like this. He just replied to me today with the following:

Hello Chris

In regards to your e-mail - I will hereby inform you that I have re-added my site to wikipedia.

Listen, do not block me as a user, or interfere with the content added, or I will block you. Try me

Hopefully sorted

M

A guy with issues :) Thanks for helping revert his edits. EuroSong ^talk 16:39, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Hi Eurosong, I'll reply here as I don't want this discussion to sprawl over too many pages as it often is the case. What I think should be done is Mfo should be reported to some admins for his repeated breaching of WP rules, and it is quite apparent he knows he does wrong. I guess there is some formal procedure for it, I just couldn't find time to research more thrughly into it. Besides, my brain's simply boiling - I envy you, as probably it's not even close as hot in England like it is here... Bravada, talk - 17:24, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Hi.. yes, I know the procedure. I have given him one final warning - and if he does it again, I shall report him to an admin. Actually it has been extremely hot in England recently: it's only in the last few days that the temperature has dropped a little bit to more reasonable levels. How is it in Poland now? :) EuroSong ^talk 13:00, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

OK, let's see whether he's being persistent... Somebody else started to repeatedly vandalise Carola, so seems like we're in for some "fun"... Anyway, today is actually the first day in like a week to feature any actual clouds, and there are even suspiscions of rain, so it's not that boiling hot anymore - we've been having far over 30^o C Seems like a bit of relief, but still I could hardly have any sound sleep over the last few nights and feel totally unconscious... I bet you were dying to learn that. What-EVER. Bravada, talk - 13:21, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Dziekuje

Thanks very much for the barnstar "Pentastar" Bravada! I already knew you appreciated my edits, but that was kind of you. It is my tendency, if I comment on an FAC (second one now), to try to help the article along. One can expound at length on what's wrong with an article, or just go in and fix some of it. I might be a pragmatist in that regard. Thanks, Outriggr 22:43, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Seeking your input

Dear Bravada, I am seeking your advice and input regarding the article Eurovision Song Contest. I nominated it as a Featured Article, but it failed - see the page here. Many of the objections arose because there were not enough sources, or they were not properly cited.

I have now gone through the article thoroughly, and along with a few tweaks here and there, I have added many more references. I even bought a hard-copy book in order to ensure that some facts had been published, before citing it as a source.

Now I would like to ask you a favour, as one of the people who objected to the original nomination. Could you please take another look at the article, and let me know if, in your opinion, it looks better - and now up to Featured standard with regards to source citations? I do realise that most of the sources are online ones: unfortunately there has been surprisingly little published in hard-copy about the history of the Eurovision Song Contest, and most of the information that I know myself comes from having simply lived and breathed Eurovision for the past 14 years - attending the Contests, and experiencing the events, stories and rule changes as they have happened. If I could get more "hard copy" to verify this then I would, but it doesn't seem to be out there. It is, however, online. Therefore I have formatted all my web citation templates as best I can.

With regards to many of the criticisms which you mentioned and changes you proposed in the FA discussion, as you can see I have taken much of your advice on board: thank you for that.. I do value other people's input. However there are some things I have not changed, because I disagree with them - and these things are not formal WP guidance as to how articles should be; they're just matters of prererence (for example your suggestion of moving "criticism" into the "voting" section). Anyway...

I am seeking to re-nominate this as a FA. However, before I do so I would value your input, as a former objector. Thank you :) EuroSong ^talk 04:03, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

OK, I went right ahead and submitted it for Peer Review. Please feel free to comment. Thanks. EuroSong ^talk 15:14, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Bravada, thank you very much for your input so far. I greatly appreciate it: due to the things you have pointed out, the Eurovision article is much better than it was before. Even though in its current incarnation I am 99% the writer, your input has enabled me to implement many improvements; the need for which I would not have seen without you :) I don't know how much longer the Peer Review will stay active for - but if you have time, I'd like you to review the points I have addressed, and possibly take on board my responses to those things which will not be changed. I see you're "travelling" at the moment, so I understand if you don't have so much internet time! Where are you: anywhere nice? EuroSong ^talk 01:31, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Hi Chris, thanks for all the nice words! I am happy that you found my review of some assistance. Keeping the article and the PR on my watchlist I am seeing all the improvements you are constantly making. However, the whole PR has now grown to considerable size and I just need to be able to put away a bit more time to be able to go through it thoroughly once again - which obviously isn't that easy, especially given all the backlog I have both concerning WP and other stuff (sometimes referred to as real life). I certainly want to get back to that, so it is high on my list.

For the time being, I am in Cologne, where it is being absolutely tropically hot nd humid, which greatly hampers any intellectual activity - but the city is very nice. Bravada, talk - 10:12, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Hi.. I see you left a message on the talk page of the Eurovision article. Are you back from Köln? Hope you had a nice time :) So... yes, I made a lot of changes, after your useful suggestions in the Peer Review. I addressed all the points which were addressable: the issues you raised which I did not address were things which I considered to be just the way you would have laid out the article if you had been the major writer - for example the issue about the Contest's expansion, when you suggested that the information should be moved elsewhere. I responded by saying that I disagreed, as the expansion is a major theme of the Contest, and needs its own section to highlight the changes. But anyway... I believe I have addressed everything possible, which might serve as a barrier to a successful FA nomination. Before I re-submit it, I shall myself go over every word of the article with a fine-tooth comb just to make sure that everything reads as it should. Lewis R recently improved a few sentences here and there, which is good. But also before I re-submit it... could you tell me now, whether you would give a FAC your support? :) All the best.. EuroSong ^talk 22:57, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

P.S. I agree with your comment on the talk page about perceptions of the Contest in different countries. It would be extremely difficult to find well-written, objective, NPOV references which describe the different attitudes towards the Contest. Practically everything I have ever seen on the matter is polarised, either in fan magazines which blindly love the competition, or in the British media where it is trashed with no factual basis. EuroSong ^talk 22:59, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Eurovision Songs

I tend to reply on my own page, but I'll reply here since it's more useful to do so:

There's no reason to assume that all the entries will remain as "permastubs". Just because I don't happen to know that this song was later covered by a particularly legendary Japanese singer or that melody would turn up in another country selling aftershave two years later doesn't mean that nobody knows it. For example, you're a Poland-based editor, so I daresay you'd know more about the Polish entries than I ever will for the simple fact that I don't speak much in the way of Polish. As I see it, what I'm doing is doing the groundwork for others to jump on after me - I'm not one of those people who claims "ownership" of an article beyond a general feeling that I don't like seeing my work vandalised - so I fully expect that over time there'll be a great many stubs converted into fully-fledged articles. Obviously not all of them will be, but that's the mechanics of the thing.
Where lyrics are concerned, you're right that I'm trusting to the Thrush (or my own German, where applicable). Again, as with the general information, someone who speaks Estonian is welcome to explain what "Nagu Merelaine" really is all about, but until they do, it serves as a useful summary. That said, I think we can both agree that one of the great joys of the ESC is that most lyrics call a spade a spade - there aren't any Dylanesque metaphors to deconstruct.
The idea of combining the less notable ones as you've suggested could well be viable, but there are two main caveats I can see:

• Some of those pages themselves are looking suspiciously like duplicates of the pages of the artists who won the national finals in question. That's obviously something which can be worked on over time, but at the moment they look like that.
• As I said earlier in relation to the permastubs, it's not going to be too easy to decide offhand what is and isn't notable. Even getting a Belgian to adjudicate notability on the Belgian entries and so on would be a bit of an issue, as the notability may well come from the song's life outside the relevant country ("Volare", for example).

That said, I do take your comments and to a greater or lesser extent I see your points. What I'd suggest, though, is that we don't do anything too hastily just at the moment. There'll be time enough to merge articles together once they're all there. BigHaz 13:18, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

List of automotive flops AfD

You obviously do not understand the use of AfD. I strongly oppose to such efforts, and I hope this initiative of yours fail. --Arbiteroftruth 17:44, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

My dear Bravada

My dear Bravada, I'm honored that you hold me in such high regard... tho I feel it's quite undeserved! :) Anyway, hun, I want you to know that I'll be glad to help in any way I can. I was about to leave for an hour or so - don't be alarmed, I've taken note of your request, and I'll get to it as soon as I return home. Catch you later, and big hugs! Phædriel ♥ tell me - 21:21, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Ok, dear, I've examined the discussion in question, and I think I get the picture now. I'll give you my humble opinion, tho keep in mind that it's just that: my own personal impression and my modest advice. I don't think I have an extensive experience in Wiki policies (tho I sincerely thank you for your kind words! ;) and that all I can offer you is my grasp as someone who likes to read the discussions and try and reach an acceptable and NPOV agreement.

The way I see it, there's merit in your appreciation that the mere term "flop" has an inherent personal judgement and its limits cannot be clearly precised in an encyclopedic fashion. On the other hand, the list itself is useful, and although calling a commercial failure "flop" may be questionable, there doubtlessly is a big number of models which have not met its sales expectations. This is one of those cases where a solution can be reached without much consequence and trauma, as long as everyone involved is willing to discuss and reach an agreement, imho. The longer this discussion goes, the worse the personal arguments will get, and trust me, that's useless. I believe Rogerd and Vegaswikian have provided the best solution: since the commercial failure of many automobiles deserve an article; and, since the term "flop" can be considered inherently POV (as you correctly point out, again imho), the best solution is simply to rephrase the name of this list into truly neutral wording; something like, i.e., List of automobiles that were commercial failures. I also understand your concern regarding the contents of the list itself; and yes, tho some models may be doubtless failures, there will always be gray areas when it comes to such issues - it is inevitable. I'd recommend to keep an eye on the list and request for proper sourcing using the {{fact}} template where needed; it is very common, hun. But trust me, the worst you can do is entangle in personal appreciations, so it's best to try to enforce NPOV in the most open way - we all tend to be more receptive if we add a little kindness to the discussion... again, my own 2 cents!

Words to the wise, my dear Bravada, I praise your courage in being bold and posting this for AfD; but if you ask me, I would have tried to discuss it previously with the regular editors of this article at its talk page. I have seen one too many bitter arguments over articles that have been proposed for deletion, disputes that could have been easily and quickly solved through better communication. Still, I believe this case will reach an acceptable conclusion easily, so please, don't worry nor blame yourself over this - I repeat, there "is" merit in your reasoning, and if this episodes helps you to guide yourself in similar situations in the future, then its purpose will be accomplished. Hope this helps you, hun, and if you ever need my help, you know where to find me, right? ;) Take good care, and big hugs! Phædriel ♥ tell me - 23:28, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Talbot Tagora featured

Hi Bravada, Remember to add the {{featured article}} template to the new featured article! (I am going to assume that this is some spoken or unspoken tradition—that the nominator/major contributor gets to add this template.) Outriggr 23:33, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for reminding me of that :D Bravada, talk - 00:43, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Sorry about never responding to your note on my talk page--I've been too busy to edit lately--but I just wanted to congratulate you on the Tagora article getting featured, and to note that the copyedit by Kierant got it to right where it needs to be in terms of prose quality (I wish I'd noticed in time to withdraw my objection). Thanks for stepping up and sheperding the article through the process; it isn't an easy job, but you handled it well. --Robth^Talk 15:59, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Thank you on behalf of all editors! :D Bravada, talk - 16:50, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Wikitalk comment

First congratulations on getting your FA! My second question is regarding your comment:
"Oh well, first it was about crappy photos, now that they've improved (though I'd try to clean this camera lens), we went into the "dump all kinds of everything into WikiProject talk" phase. Let's see what comes next..."
-Where you talking about the Wiki project being used as a blog? Signature^brendel 04:22, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Whoops, I have apparently forgotten to answer that - the answer is obviously yes :D Bravada, talk - 08:21, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

DaimlerChrysler

Hi. You wrote, "I guess the EU thing would add confusion, but it's important to note that DCX is headquartered in BOTH Germany and USA - if you REALLY need to have those designations anyway..."

Thanks for the feedback. Question with DCX. I was under the impression that DCX, even though having a "dual-headquarters" was actually for all intents and purposes incorporated and legally based in Germany. Actually, I think a lot of the Germany/USA stuff goes back to the publicity blitz that DCX tried to use to make it look more of a merger than as an acquisition. That is why I just listed it from Germany, because it is actually the real truth behind the matter.

Anyway, yeah, I saw similar designations used before, so I used them here to quickly give the user an idea of where the Top 15 companies are from. Maybe it would be better to go ahead and spell out the countries. Do you have a strong opinion either way on having or not having those labels? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.105.105.111 (talk • contribs)

First and foremost, I would like to encourage you to log in - that way, you make sure everybody recognizes your edits as done by a single, registered user, and you will not be accused of possible vandalisms and such done by other users from the same IP. Moreover, you will be able to sign your comments in talkpages and in general it's much easier to work within the Wiki community with a fixed login. It takes about 15 seconds to establish a login and then you do not even have to log in everytime, provided you are using the same computer.

As concerns the country issue, I have seen that in auto catalogues and such, whose roots go back to times when the auto industry looked so much different than today. In the days when major automakers are much more of global companies than national ones, it is a bit irrelevant, if you'd ask me. IIRC, e.g. Honda manufactures more vehicles and probably does more turnover in the USA (or America in general) than in Japan.

The "EU" thing - I think it's fairly obvious that given countries are members of the EU to the general readers, and for those who don't know, it's not that relevant anyway. It also creates confusion as to what that means - now it more or less indicates where the company is headquartered, but if you add the EU comment, does that mean that the company is also headquartered in another EU countries, onlyoperates within the EU or what? Just as well one might describe GM as USA (NAFTA).

DCX - whatever the propaganda Kirk Kerkorian fuelled to make some cash in his "palimony suit" said, DCX is actually headquartered in both Stuttgart in Auburn Hills. They always indicate so in official documents. I believe they are incorporated in Germany, as you can't probably have a company incorporated in two countries at a time, but I think that Chrysler Group is actually still incorporated in the US in that form or another. Whatever one might want to believe concerning the "merger" thing, the company actually DOES operate like it had two separate headquarters, much like Renault/Nissan, despite the fact that the latter two are still separate entities by law. Bravada, talk - 08:35, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Welcome home!

Hi & welcome back - I hope it was a good trip. One question and one piece of information:

1. I can't find anything on air-conditioning or climate control, on English WP. Am I missing something?
2. Not a question: I've uploaded some more images (mostly Saab!) onto a sub-page: User:Ballista/Images/Vehicle components, in case you're interested. Please feel free to upload to Commons, if you wish but please don't remove them from English WP!
3. Greetings and best wishes from the UK and from me - Ballista 12:10, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Sorry to hear that you have a problem - hope all blows over soon. No, I didn't want you to upload, it's just that some people have in the past, so I permitted it - but added that I didn't want to lose them from english WP (last time someone did it, they removed them from english WP!). Not dimwitted at all - I was not giving the full picture. Thanks for the tip on how to upload quickly to Commons - that's very helpful and makes it worthwhile that I approached you. Ref. air conditioning, I did put a request out, for someone to write it (not my area of interest or expertise). Thanks & good fortune be with you. - Ballista 13:28, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Brazillian cars

Hello again Bravada. The Opel Tigra was sold in Brazil simply as Tigra. The front emblem was changed from the Opel to the Chevrolet's which is the GM brand for Brazil (or Latin America, I don´t know). They are the same car. The Opel Tigra article should clarify that (I'll check it). In Brazil the fuel injection was remapped to drop the 110 cv engine to 99 cv due to taxing law (cars under 100cv paid less taxes, so it could be sold with a greater profit margin or lower price or both). The 15' wheels were also exchanged for 14' wheels to lower maintenence price since Brazilian roads tend to destroy tires faster and 15' replacement tires are more expensive than 14's. Here we use the brand names GM and Chevrolet interchangeably, there are no clear distinction among them. Opel is less known because it is from Europe, but I think it would also be used interchangeably if it was more common around here. The Opel/Chevrolet Tigra was imported from mid 1998's until early 1999's. The Dolar was almost paralallel with the Real and U$ 1,00 was worth aproximately R$ 1,29. This valorization of Real was maintained with government intervention and since it wasn´t an actual valorization the government had to drop it's messing witht the financial market so by 1999 the Dolar suddenly (but not unexpecting) reached the value of R$ 3,50 or so. So suddenly the Tigra, which was imported from GM/Chevrolet and not manufactured here suddenly cost more than 2,5 times it´s intented price, so Chevrolet ceased importing it. I was one of the lucky to get my hands on a Tigra and only recently parted ways with it. I now own a Fiat Marea but I will be buying a Chevrolet Opel Astra, which here in Brazil isn´t yet the last Astra model. In fact I don´t know it the Astra sold here is exclusive for Brazilian market. The front is clearly different from the 1998's Astra B, the rear is also slightly changed as also are the tailights. The interior is also a litle changed. So I don´t know how to categorize the current Brazilian Astra in European classification (the brazilian Vectra is also not the actual Vectra. It was a brazilian designf over the Astra platform, with a front very similar to the current European Astra and a unique rear, very, very beutiful.) See pictures from the current Brazilian Astra here. And see more from the beautiful brazilian Vectra here. Regards. Loudenvier 13:10, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Answers to your questions on my talk page:

I understand all Opel and Opel-based cars, both imported and locally made, are branded as Chevrolet in Brazil, and the Opel brand is never used in official marketing, right?

Yes, you´re right. Opel brand is never used. The emblems, car manuals, all are changed to reflect the chevrolet brand and emblems.

I understand that Chevrolet models are also referred to as "GM" in Brazil, e.g. "GM Astra" and the like - this would explain the propensity of some editors to generate articles such as General Motors Astra, which looks absolutely atrocious to users from Europe or North America. Is the "GM" naming only used only in common parlance, or officially too (marketing, press release, technical literature)?

GM is only used in common parlance. Officially and "marketly" all cars are from the Chevrolet brand. But there is another catch: It´s not the Chevrolet Astra. Here we know it only as Astra. You never say, "I´m going to buy a Chevrolet Astra", instead you said "I´m goind to buy an Astra, or a Marea". I´ve also took the liberty of correcting the General Motors Astra issue. It now redirects to Opel Astra and I did moved the contents and the discussion. The history tough are only on the old General Motors Astra article.

I am quite interested in Latin American cars, so I know about the Brazilian Astra and Vectra - I would say the Brazilian Astra can be classified, despite modifications, as Astra B/G, while the Vectra is a sedan version of the Astra C/H. Anyway, I believe the differences between the Brazilian and European models should be explained in respective articles.

I will see what I could do to help.

In general, I think the division of GM models between articles should be sorted out - I will raise the issue on the WikiProject talk page. Stay tuned ;)

All right. I´m waiting :-) Loudenvier 17:45, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

re: Autobianchi Y10

Done, I'm glad to help in any way possible. --Interiot 14:43, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Maxima

The Maxima is a mid-sized vehicle, always has been, always will be. Never was an executive vehicle. So stop trying to add it as such. Also, the '{{world}}' tag is unnecessary because the problem HAS been addressed and solved. Prosze nie wiecje. Rarelibra 19:05, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Oh, and just so we're clear, I will reiterate for you - the term "executive car" is used "generally to describe a passenger car larger than a large family car" as defined. It also mentions "Equivalently sized cars in North America are usually called mid-size cars", and gives the example of a luxury (or executive) sedan as the 2002 Lincoln Town Car... a full-size, luxury car. It also mentions "there are certain guidelines by which the luxury cars are defined. Currently, that means its Mean Selling Price (MSP) is in excess of roughly US$36,000 or higher" (which the Maxima is not, nor never was). And also, it mentions "Mainstrean Japanese manufacturers (like Honda, Nissan and Toyota) sell slightly more expensive cars than European manufactueres (Opel, Peugeot, Renault) but are considered in the same category as them." Thus, the Maxima is a MID-SIZED car, NOT an 'executive' car. Rarelibra 19:18, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Maxima part II

No, it does not answer my concerns. The Infiniti line was released to be executive class. One statement I found says "In the past, Nissan did not have any strong products to compete in the executive sedan segment, which is dominated by Mercedes E-class and BMW 5-Series." The Maxima is not in the same category as those two. "In Japan, Nissan used to have Gloria and Cedric to please conservative businessmen. That's why Ghosn decided to build a new executive car for the global market." (The Infiniti M, which IS an executive car). "Compared with Audi A6, BMW 5-Series, Mercedes E-class and Lexus GS, the Nissan executive car looks relatively conservative." But since the definition goes as being in the UK, then I see it's validity... especially in light of not having it be biased. If any of the articles need tweaking or rewriting, we can do so to expand on more world-wide models. However, it mentions the histories in Japan, the UK, Australia, etc. - thus, the tag is unnecessary. Rarelibra 19:49, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

The English equivalent of "Ober Mittelklasse" is "upper middle class", not "executive". I think this is getting twisted around due to semantics. You mentioned that the definition states "Cars in Europe's equivalent category to North America's mid-size are generally known as large family cars or executive cars" but that is contradictary in itself, since the executive car definition states that it is "a passenger car larger than a large family car". Rarelibra 20:13, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

list of cars AFD invite

thank you. dposse 16:25, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

WikiProject Automobiles

Hi, please see WikiProject Automobiles talk page; it's important! (I also need help with some articles too!) --TheM62Manchester 17:06, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

The vandalism notice

I only used it so I could subst: it, to inform you of WikiProject Automobiles. Sorry --TheM62Manchester 17:09, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Your TV question

That's The Pretender (TV series). You're welcome! Karen | Talk | contribs 17:43, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Automotive lighting

Greetings, please see talk:Automotive lighting. Thanks! --Scheinwerfermann 22:48, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi

I am writing to inform you, and many others, that an AfD in which you voted delete, List of automobiles that were commercial failures, was already unsucessfully nominated a short time ago, but under a different title. This was not noted in the nomination. Please read the opposing arguments here, and reconsider your vote. Thanks! AdamBiswanger1 23:41, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for being up front about the omission of the previous AfD. I appreciate it-- AdamBiswanger1 00:25, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

FA question

Hi Bravada. Since you seem to be quite knowledgable about the different statuses which are awarded to articles on WP, I am asking you this question. If I nominate one of my articles that just got GA for FA status but it does not succeed as an FA nominee, does it retain its GA status? (I'm not talking about Passenger vehicles in US). I couldn't find a clear answer for this, so I though you could help me with this question. Thanks. Signature^brendel 00:12, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

I asked the question on the FA talk page, it does-so never mind. Signature^brendel 05:22, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Autobianchi Stellina

Hi, about your question about DYK and suggestions about similar things. When I update the template I don't mind if similar topics (eurovision entries, english and french houses seem to be popular at the moment) pop up every day or two as long as the article is good quality and the hook for the DYK template is interesting, if the blurb is boring and we're not short on suggestions I'll pass over something that there has been a lot of recently. Hope that helps. Keep up the good work. --Peta 09:25, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Love Me Tonight (song)

I've added some links (lyrics and performance video) for Angelica's song, which might help it get over the line in a DYK sense. Not totally sure that it's not a stub, though, which is what's going to kill it when push comes to shove. BigHaz 09:27, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks

Thank you for the apple pie award, I apreciate it. Also, an idependent review is a good idea as we just need to agree to disagree on Passenger vehicles US meeting of GA criteria. Regards, Signature^brendel 16:36, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

templates

For what it's worth, please don't remove {{AutomobileWatch}} from any categories... you're free to change the contents of the template to use your new one, but don't replace that specific template from categories, as I have an upcoming feature that relies on them.

Also, I don't think I'm against your ideas. In the latest case, I'm just personally interested in a single list of essential articles, rather than four separate lists.

Anyway, with a small bit of fiddling, it should be possible to have lists of articles display both on separate "task force" train-style pages, as well on one single "essential articles" CVG-style page. Would it be okay if I went ahead and made that happen once the task force pages get underway? --Interiot 12:44, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

I don't really have any experience with bots, and don't have the time at the moment... sorry. Maybe another wikiproject has one that they can make work here. Even CVG seems to update theirs by hand though. [2] The ratings don't often change, do they? --Interiot 14:11, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Well, hopefully they would - the thing is that compiling and keeping the list up-to-date would be quite cumbersome and one small mistake could have disastrous consequences. Perhaps you know somebody who has experience with bots that we could approach for help? Bravada, talk - 14:14, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

YooHoo

Hi there, did you see my message which I left a few days ago under "Seeking your input" (above)? Maybe you missed it, buried in the middle of the others. I hope you are well. EuroSong ^talk 14:25, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Noooo... I have no reason to hate you! It's quite alright that you've been busy: I understand. I was just checking that you had actually seen the message, that's all - since it was rather hidden in the middle of everything else. Just reply whenever you are able :) EuroSong ^talk 17:43, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Just to let you know: Eurovision Song Contest is up for FAC again. You get a mention :) I hope that the article is up to your lofty standards this time, hehe. Really, I'm serious: your input has been wonderful. Even though 99% of the work for the article in its present form has been done by me, much of that work would not have been done at all if it had not been for you and your useful advice, pointing me in the right direction. Thank you. I now truly believe that the article is great. I hope you are able to support it. Have a good night! EuroSong ^talk 01:27, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Aww, thank you for the "12 points" :)

Okay, so three things:

1) Thanks for pointing out the fact that IE won't display the hair-spaces either side of mdashes: that's what happens when I use Firefox! I have replaced these with regular spaces.

2) I do agree that the FA criteria should be high: that is why I have waited until now, as I believe this article is great after all the improvements made, and I do not believe there are any more addressable points. Your own reservations seem to come from your own preferences, and not addressable concerns which are rooted in WP policy and guidelines. Surely everyone has their own way in which they would write any particular article, and if every person objected on the grounds that "they would write it differently", even though there is nothing wrong with the article as far as WP guidelines are concerned, then no article would ever become featured.

2) I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on the "Expansion of the Contest" section.. although I would like to know exactly why you think it is POV. You said that there are undertones which imply that "Eastern Europe destroyed Eurovision". Well, I can't see a single sentence which says, either directly or by implication, that the Contest's expansion is a bad thing. In fact, the result of all the expansion is that we now have two shows: the semi and the final! That could be taken as a good thing; certainly it provides more entertainment for fans, such as myself. Personally I am not against the expansion, and welcome the new countries: they have provided us with many wonderful songs, which I love. Therefore it is hard for me to imagine how I could have had any subconscious undertones of negativity when writing that section. The only one problem I have with the new countries is that in some cases, they make it even more obvious that there is neighbourly/block voting. However, the expansion section does not touch upon voting at all: that is dealt with in the "criticisms" section, which itself does not even mention Eastern Europe, and even steers clear of it by giving Greece and Cyprus — old-timer Eurovision countries — as examples. Really, my bottom line on this point is that the expansion is a major theme of the Contest, as the past ten years of its history have produced more changes to the Contest's format than any other period. Most of these changes are a direct result of the fact that there are more countries wishing to enter than it is possible to host in a single show. Therefore this theme needs its own section, which explains in context exactly how and why the changes happened. To incorporate the information elsewhere in the article would be to down-play it, and to make it a lot less clear exactly what happened. If you still feel that the section is POV, please give examples of specific sentences which you believe imply that the expansion was a bad thing, and I will take a look at them. If there are no such examples you can find, then surely you must then admit that it is not POV. Oui?

3) The Criticisms section. In the Peer Review, you said that a discussion about musical styles and performances should have its own section. I have thought about this. I would like to be able to give it its own section, but I don't really see how such a section would be encyclopædic and comprehensive. I mean, there are so many styles which have been included in the Contest.. it's almost like proposing that we discuss every single song. If I were to create such a section, then it's hard to see what justification I would have to highlight particular, individual songs above others. When I wrote the article originally, I really tried to stay clear of talking about the actual songs, because: a) it would be difficult, if not impossible, to make the discussion encyclopædic; b) as songs, by their very nature, are artforms to be judged (especially in such a competition!), it would also be next to impossible to write about them in an NPOV way; and c) such discussions about the music of the Contest would be an open invitation to editors to edit that section and include their own POV. I therefore decided to only mention something which is directly referenced, which is an example of the criticism which the Contest faces.

Thanks again, EuroSong ^talk 09:16, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

WatchlistBot

I don't think it would be too hard. Right now, I'm working on a couple of other things, and trying not to get sucked back in to spending too much time on Wikipedia (it's not working). I want to say that I'll consider it and get back to you much later, when I find time. Knowing me though, I'll probably get to it relatively soon. No promises. I don't think it will even take much change from what I already have, but that's easier to figure out once I can actually try to do stuff. So, let me know when your template is done, and where you want me to put the article lists, etc.

Also, my bot can be used to tag articles in the project once you get your template done. It won't be able to categorize them, but might make it easier to find them. It's only good at tagging all articles in a category though, not picking out which ones apply. Ingrid 16:05, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Also, I wonder if you're aware of Mathbot which does some list related work for 1.0 assessment. Ingrid 16:12, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

I fixed the problem, but the list is too long to fit on one page. All articles are on the main page, but if you're interested in other types of pages (talk, templates, project pages, etc.), you'll have to look at subpages. Ingrid 15:02, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

TF

Okay, I add the design task force as many article completely lack info on design. See Mercedes-Benz E-Class or Toyota Corolla. They are mere listing of engines and options. I will think over this task force as I see your point-you want to assign specific article's to a certain task force. Also, as w/ luxo cars, yes the boundaries would be somewhat vague as they include some companies such as Volvo and Saab which are soetimes seen as lux, but it is these gray areas where a lot of POV sometimes hides as people try to make their semi-luxo car out to be luxo cars. Again, for now I have put my name under the NA TF. Guessing from your comment on my talk page a POV removal TF would also be against the original idea wouldn't it? Signature^brendel 19:37, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Triumph 1800 Roadster + British Cars Task Force

I have changed the image as requested and also touched out the balloons in the background that were tied to the car.

I am thinking about the taskforce. Did you realise that you have the definitions of the tasks under UK and France switched over?

Malcolma 08:50, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

The Great Barbara Dex

You don't happen to have any pictures or footage of Barbara and her dress for the article, by any chance? I've been trying to find some, but I'm coming up blank which is unusual given the fame she enjoys in ESC circles. BigHaz 08:54, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Re: Japanese Cars Task Force

I didn't notice that task force (actually I never actually read the list properly :( ), so thanks for informing me of it!

With regards to the notice on the Category:Keicars, I wasn't sure how appropriate it would be (I couldn't find anything at all about writing text like that in any cat guidelines), and probably didn't word it as well as I should have. AFAIK all those cars are kei cars in Japan, it's just the export versions can differ greatly and some articles currently only refer to the European models. Some may be the same car, or the same car with a larger engine exceeding the 660cc kei car limit. Then there's some which are all over the place - the Suzuki Alto sold in Europe has been since at least the early-mid '90s made in India, is rarely (if ever) based on the JDM Alto (IIRC the model in the picture is based on the Suzuki Fronte, and the one after that is based on the Suzuki Cervo Mode), and depending on when/where/what spec they may or may not conform to the kei restrictions - usually they're just older JDM Suzuki kei car models with larger engines stuck in them. And then there's stuff like the Wagon R, in which the Euro models where never really kei cars, though are based on the original Wagon R which is one.

And then you have to couple all this with the fact that most of these articles are sporadic at best in content right now. My idea with putting these articles in this cat are that (i) though some articles may currently have nothing about the JDM kei car sold under that name, they should, and hopefully will in the future (and I'll try my best to fix this), and (ii) if there is significant content about both the JDM kei car and the loosely-related export/foreign-built model that goes by the same name, the article should be separated into two, with only the standard-compliant cars staying in the keicar cat.

(I've copied most of what I said here into the cat's talk page) --Zilog Jones 11:51, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Apology?

None needed whatsoever, my friend! In retrospect, I once read a story by Roald Dahl named The Hitchhiker, which was made into short French film called "l'Auto-stoppeur". I knew of this and still didn't make the connection! We shall share the cookies. Have a good rest -- Samir धर्म 00:43, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Sam

Yes I've reverted it-also he knows Wiki (and me-sigh) so I will put him on the 3RR noticeboard after the fourth. Signature^brendel 01:07, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

The Infobox

I think I've got the hang of it now. I'd been avoiding it for so long because it looked complicated, which it is in a coding sense but not at all in a using sense. BigHaz 12:05, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

List of automobiles that were commercial failures

Hi, I just want to say that I am not trying to obstruct you on this AfD for any other reason than I simply don't agree. This is probably the stance of most other people advocating to keep the article. Your comment that you are "still waiting" for me to explain how to get profitability from company figures is a little impudent, to use your words. You also say that you find the scope of the arguments annoying. Perhaps you may find it easier to discuss individual's points of view on their own talk pages. By no means would I presume to tell you what to do but my advice is to try not to make this so personal, accept that not everyone agrees, and just let the AfD run its course. I hope there are no hard feelings. Mallanox 00:29, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

I don't know how the educational system in Poland works but I hold a qualification in business practice at advanced level in the UK. This covers understanding of profit/loss accounting amongst many other subjects. In the UK account keeping must be meticulous and as I said on the AfD the results are available for every company operating in the UK at any time (provided the fee necessary to obtain it from the registry is paid). A precised version is provided to all shareholders. The problem for me is that I have no idea whether the rest of the world has such transparent accounting practices, and the UK has precious few car manufacturers left! I suppose a short version of all I have said above is that I would be confident to try researching it if the company were based in the UK, if not I would not know where to start! Mallanox 00:57, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply. Your qualification is superior to mine though that's largely I guess because I have taken a different path through life. I have been a company director of a road haulage firm, though related, it's a far cry from manufacture. I have abandoned this kind of work and am now working in banking services in the field of the prevention of money laundering. Again, obliquely but not directly related to accounting. I doubt either of us are going to try, and given the international nature of the article, as individuals we would find it an impossible task to verify everything in the article. I doubt we would be able to get enough willing co-operation to do it especially as a cost would almost certainly be incurred. I guess the bottom line is that the AfD will be decided on issues other than this. We've gone a little bit off on a tangent here but there's no harm in that! Mallanox 01:21, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

The rich get richer...

Living in Poland perhaps you don't appreciate how extensively the slogan is used in US politics and media, but that is your privilege. Gazpacho 01:06, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Simca Vedette

Hi Bravada. I don't know very much about old cars, but since I can read portuguese fluently I will be of great help when things come to cars produced or imported in Brazil. I've already found a work by the brazilians José Rogério Lopes de Simone e Paulo César Sandler entitled "Simca - A história desde as origens” (Simca - The history since the beginnings). A quick search was already productive: [3] and [4] seems to have good information. Today it's Dad's Day here in Brazil, so I will come to my dad's house to enjoy a Sunday lunch and a great afternoon together with my family, perhaps tonight or by the week I'll be able to come up with something new. Regards. Loudenvier 11:11, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

DYK images

Hi Bravada, yes it would be fabulous to have more images. It takes quite a bit of time to update DYK and having to find images prolongs things even more. Would be really great if you could help find free images. Cheers -- Samir धर्म 00:00, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Simca Vedette

Hi - Glad to be of help but please don't expect 'too much' expertise. Main French interest is in Traction Avant & DS Citroens. - Ballista 04:30, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

On DYK now! Thanks for the article and your help at DYK. -- Samir धर्म 06:53, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Sure, the unicorn fish had its air time. The Vedette's on now. Cheers -- Samir धर्म 12:06, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Stop selling your English short - it's excellent and beats many natives! - Ballista 03:38, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi - I've done a 'make-over' - how do you like it - can obviously do more, if you wish. - Ballista 05:54, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Of course you can ask me to do a summary - I hope I am up to the task - let me know when this is needed. By the way, I shall be away for 3 weeks, from about 12th September. - Ballista 16:40, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Sorry to have messed up your system! I just feel that it reads better without all that bold stuff and I cannot see what the bolding does for the article, but, as you say - personal tastes vary. I shall be very happy to leave all the bolding in place, in future. - Ballista 05:37, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your note - no thanks, I shan't vote for a change - I just hadn't seen that the system was already laid down, so had never observed it - perhaps I'll take a look at some of my previous edits and created articles ...... - Ballista 05:24, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Re: Automobile Barnstar?

Hello, Bravada. First off, thanks for your kind note. :) I've looked over some of the discussion at WP:BAP and WT:WP Automobiles, and this design really stands out. It's probably more creative, elegant, and fitting than any design I could come up with for an Automotive/Automobile Barnstar. If you'd like to contact other graphic designers who might be able to help out, some users named at WP:BS include Deathphoenix, David Levy, ClockworkSoul, Brian0918, and Smurrayinchester. Hope this helps. Regards, Sango123 18:45, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Automotive Lighting

Hi, Bravada. If you'll duck over to Automotive Lighting, you'll see I've been hard at work whipping existing references into shape and adding new ones. It is slow work and I expect it will take some time before the article is as exhaustively sourced as it ought to be. I have still not yet settled on the best formats for several types of cites, which is why you will notice inconsistency. One thing I have not figured out how to do is to re-use cites. That is, if there is a particular source that will be cited more than once in the article, I would like to be able to have all instances of that cite refer to the same reference number, if possible. I'm also not yet pleased with how to reference the ECE Regulations. Not only is each of them an individual PDF, but there are also revisions and amendments to many of the regulations, and each of those is its own PDF. I will keep thinking about how to rework this for maximum ease of use. Wiki contains excellent cite templates for books, journals, encyclopædias, websites, even Usenet posts, but none for technical standards, which would help out considerably in this case. I have not yet looked into what it takes to create a new template, but perhaps I will do so this evening or tomorrow. In any event, interested to read your thoughts! --Scheinwerfermann 21:52, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Do you know this van?

Hi Bravada, I took this picture the other day in Brigg. I have to say this is the first time I have ever seen one of these. I guess it is not British made as it is LHD and has beam deflectors. The badge reads Taurus TRANSIT. So far my googling has proved unsuccessul. I would appreciate any suggestions. By the way I got consent to use any of the Argentinian Fiat 125 Club images as we talked about. I simply have not got around it yet. Regards, E Asterion ^{u talking to me?} 23:34, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Absolutely amazing! I am so glad I asked you. Not to worry about it if you are busy right now. I will be on holiday next weekend for just over a week and do not reckon I will have time before Friday either. In any case, I will take up your offer for later on. Thanks a lot. E Asterion ^{u talking to me?} 00:05, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

More photos

I took this one today. I drove past the car and felt the need to turn around. Too pretty to let it go without a pic. I guess it is a Fiat Dino but it was just badged as Dino (i.e. no Fiat badge anywhere to be seen). Any idea? E Asterion ^{u talking to me?} 01:45, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Nominator DYK

I don't know when that template got added to the routine, but I don't tend to use it. To be honest I think that the writer of the article deserves the credit and encouragement that the talk page template provides, not the nominator. --Peta 11:06, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

re: GDFL-something issues

I'm not... really all that seasoned of an admin. But I am a self-professed anal copyright something or other, so I'll do my best. :)

Yeah, GFDL work can be modified and redistributed anywhere, as long as it's still tagged with the GFDL license. Since it sounds like it's useful across several wikipedia projects, it might be a good idea to post it to the commons (which accepts PD, GFDL, and a few types of creative commons images). Otherwise, it'll definitely work on en.wikipedia.org as well. --Interiot 11:12, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

There are distinct benefits to allowing the content to be used for commercial purposes... Answers.com can generate advertisement revenue off our content, and use some of that money to fund our bandwidth [5]. Wikipedia can generate printed books of the articles, sell them on Amazon, and use that to fund Wikipedia bandwidth/servers/development (can't find the link, but it was mentioned somewhere in Wikimania). The $100 laptop can distribute our content to poor countries. [6] And while it's not directly using our content, it's a closely related corporate project... Wikia is advertising-supported, and on top of that, they got venture capital for the project, some of which will go to fund Wikipedia as well. [7]

There are some protections in the GFDL as well though... Corporations can't use our content and pass it off as their own... in fact, they're supposed to credit you and me whenever they post our work.

Also, the GFDL is based on open-source software. Some open source software (eg. Apache) has become so popular and well-known and respected partially because it's used by so many businesses. Free culture is important, and by exposing more people to it (even if it's while they're at work), that gives free culture more of a chance to grow. --Interiot 15:39, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your Poland-related contributions

Hello Bravada/Archive! Thank you for your contributions related to Poland. You may be interested in visiting Portal:Poland/Poland-related Wikipedia notice board, joining our discussions and sharing your creations with us.

-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  19:56, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

DYK

I passed over the astra article, the tag line still wasn't working for me and there are heaps more car articles coming up.--Peta 23:17, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

=Sam

I have reported Sam here: [8] Have a good one! Signature^brendel 01:12, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

DYK

Another BigHaz-Bravada collaboration added to the collection (Iemand Als Jij). Many thanks -- Samir

'Allo Bravada!

Hey, what's up dude! Some of us GMI'ers are wondering what you're up to, including me - you are such a great fountain of knowledge, we don't want it running dry. If it's anything of a serious nature, email me. My address is dcbjms1988@hotmail.com .

Anyway, since I'm also on a media crusade, I wonder if you can help me. Even though I'm working on Televisa and a "Media in Cuba" article, I wonder if you can help me with the media in Eastern Europe. Thanks. -Daniel Blanchette 15:56, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Regarding Ford, I know someone who can possibly help. He owns the North American English & European Ford Registry, and I think he can help. I'll just give him a holler on FordEurope.net, since some of the Euro Ford articles are also on FordEurope.net. In addition, there was also a series of book exclusively on Ford in Europe. I'll see if I can find the link for it. Anyway, thanks for responding to my message. I'm working on Televisa's history thanks to a fellow GMI'er who translated the Spanish Televisa article for me. -Daniel Blanchette 16:14, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Bravada, do you have an email address? If so, I will probably need some help (constructive criticism and the like) for something that I intend on posting at GMI. Oh, and my first "Media in Eastern Europe"-esques task is to expand Polish Radio and Television, the public broadcaster.-Daniel Blanchette 14:05, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Minn Hinsti Dans

Good grief, what would I do without you around? The sources I had said absolutely nothing about the "former drag queen" business, so I'm glad there's more of a back story to the song. BigHaz 21:40, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Good to Hear from You

People have been asking for you lately in "the other world."

I promise to look over your posts and see if there's anything I can add. Please do the same for my posts. Hudsonthedog 00:16, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

simca.com.br

Bravada, I'll summarize and translate the simca.com.br. Stay tuned!!! Loudenvier 12:10, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Image:Ford Vedette Coupé 1950.jpg

Greetings! I noticed you uploaded Image:Ford Vedette Coupé 1950.jpg yesterday. I appreciate your diligence in attaining permission to use the image on Wikipedia. Unfortunately, we can not accept media that is "used with permission". Our two basic image categories are those licensed under a free license and those used under terms of fair use. This is covered under Wikipedia:Criteria_for_speedy_deletion#Images.2FMedia item #3. I regret to inform you that we will have to delete the image. The image is very good and it's a beautiful car, but we must have a free license for it (and a claim of fair use can't be made in this case). If you have any questions about this, I'd be happy to answer. All the best, --Durin 13:06, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Unfortunately, this also applies to Image:Citroen CX 2400 GTI 1978.jpg, Image:Citroen LN 1977.jpg, Image:Peugeot 505 2.2 Turbo Aut. Familiale 1991.JPG, Image:Peugeot 604 SL Automatique 1977.JPG, and Image:1973 Simca 1000 GL.JPG. These will be deleted as well. I'm very sorry. --Durin 13:11, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

• I'm sorry you feel this is user-unfriendly. The directive comes from Jimbo Wales himself. I'm following that principle, as it is the underpinning for WP:CSD I3 and is a criteria for immediate, speedy deletion. If Jimbo felt there was negotiation room on this, he would have indicated an acceptable wait period, such as the 7 day wait period for unused images hosted here under a claim of fair use.
• I've removed the Ford image from "Did you know?" because of the policy violation, and did so prior to it's deletion.
• As I noted, I appreciate the effort to gain permission and sending such permission to Wikipedia is a good step. However, the lack of a response from Wikimedia is not an affirmative proclamation that the use of the images is acceptable.
• Please understand; I'm not trying to be in any way hostile towards you. I didn't see the images and think "Hey, I'll be a jerk to this guy". I'm simply following the explicit policy decreed by Jimbo Wales, the founder of this project. --Durin 13:29, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

• Respectfully, I did inform you of why it was so and took pains to be as polite about it as possible. I am sorry you feel this was offensive; it most certainly was not my intent.
• You do have an opportunity to gain permission from the copyright holder to freely license the image and re-upload the images, presuming you still have copies of the images, which I think is a reasonable conclusion. Deleting the images does not in any way prevent you from re-uploading the images again, under a free license. In fact, I heartily encourage you to do so! They are great images, and I'd love to see them here. We just need to have them under a free license.
• I'd just like to juxtapose the images you uploaded under a limited license with Image:Simca Ariane - cropped.jpg. This image was released under GFDL.
• As to why it needs to move quickly and what harm can be caused: I'd like to have you take a look at Wikipedia:Mirrors and forks. There are literally hundreds of sites that are using our content. The images that you uploaded are for use of Wikipedia alone. However, the images would rapidly propagate to a number of sites having no affiliation with Wikipedia. The use of the images on those sites is in direct contravention of the permissions granted by the copyright holder of the images you uploaded. We are trying to be respectful of copyright holders who grant "used with permission" licenses who are frequently unaware of how widely their work is distributed. A copyright holder would be rightfully angered if a used with permission image showed up on hundreds of non-Wikipedia sites, with us saying "Hey, it's not our fault. We're not responsible for their actions!" While it is true we are not responsible for those sites, we do have some responsibility to be respectful of copyright holder's wishes, else gaining access to copyrighted work through a free license could be considerably more problematic.
• Again, I'm sorry you feel offended. I had no intention of trying to upset you in any respect. Deleting the images was not a knee-jerk response to a used with permission problem, but a process built on sound reasoning as you can see from above. I heartily encourage your contributions, but we must have material available to us under a free license or under terms of fair use (which is narrowly defined on Wikipedia, for reasons of self protection among others). --Durin 13:49, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

I'd be happy to answer any questions as well. When emailing people about images, it's important to ask whether the image can be used under a free license such as the {{GFDL}}, {{cc-by-2.5}}, {{cc-by-sa-2.5}}, ... The images can be re-uploaded only if you contact the copyright owners again, and confirm that the image can be released under a GFDL-compatible license. There's more info at commons:Commons:Email templates as well. My apologies as well... --Interiot 13:24, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm Interiot on Skype, unsurprisingly. Some of the copyright issues can be stressful, but, for what it's worth, this is a clear part of policy, and Durin is just doing what policy says, so try not to get upset with him specifically.

Copyright is complicated, and nearly everyone (including me, an anal copyright whatchyamacallit) gets upset when their photos are contested.

The short version is that it's important that our work here not be controlled by any one organization. The work here is "open source", so if Jimbo goes insane tommorow, you can just take a copy of the encyclopedia and set up bravadas_noninsane_encyclopedia.org and all the sane people here can go work over there instead, because the encyclopedia is not owned by anyone, not even Wikimedia. When people give you permission to only use the image on Wikipedia, that means the work isn't free for anyone to distribute anymore. I don't know if you've heard of CDDB, but that's a very good example of why you don't want community-generated content to be controlled by any single organization. --Interiot 14:57, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

• de-indent Respectfully, I did explain why the images needed to be deleted. Please note that most of the images were tagged for speedy deletion before I ever got to them. Most items that fall into Category:Candidates for speedy deletion are rapidly deleted without any commentary left to the creator/uploader at all. In most cases, this is entirely proper; considerable content that is deleted through that category is of a nature that does not deserve deletion explanation (for example, an article on John Smith being created saying "He's a terrible teacher! The worst at North Sebastian Junior High!"). I took time to explain why the images were deleted because it was apparent you had put forth considerable effort with regards to the images, and it deserved an explanation. I recognize there are limitations to textual communication and that the explanation was not sufficient for you. From my chair, I thought it would be as I explained the policy under which it was deleted. Since then, it's become apparent that explanation was insufficient. But, I chalk that up to communications limitations rather than willful intent on my part. If we'd been talking in person about this, this would have gone considerably more smoothly, I am sure. It's not you and I that are really at odds here; I think we can get along fine. It's the limitations of our communication medium here in this case causing disruption to the explanation.
• We don't disable forking/mirroring of content because the only copyrighted content that we allow here is used under terms of fair use. Thus, any other use of the copyrighted content is also (hopefully) legitimately under terms of fair use. With that in mind, we are not violating the rights or permissions of any copyright holders. The principle behind this is that we are striving to build an encyclopedia that is free to anyone, for any purpose, anywhere in the world. For example, one of the projects that is using Wikipedia content (in this case under the auspices of the Wikimedia foundation) is a printed encyclopedia intended to be distributed to third world countries for the education of children. It is entirely possible that some for-profit actions will need to be involved in that in order to pay for the significant costs of that project, though of course to the children it would be free. If we had content here that we could only use on Wikipedia, we'd be significantly restricted in our ability to conduct such projects. This devolves into a messy situation; if we permit images to be here under a "used with permission" license, we should also permit textual content under such a license. The two types of material are not subtantially different. It would create a very messy situation that would be immensely difficult to untangle to create derivative works from Wikipedia. We're trying to keep it simple; It's either free use or fair use.
• As to requesting your content be removed; it is my understanding you can't. All textual content that you have contributed has been licensed under terms of GFDL.
• We can't use an image of the Ford Vedette here under a fair use license because there are multiple such vehicles in existence (maybe hundreds, or even thousands). The car was produced for 7 model years. This particular image is not of unique historical value (one of the ways in which fair use can be claimed) nor is access to such a vehicle to take a photo of it impossible, such as no surviving vehicles being in existence (another way in which fair use can be claimed). Fair use taggings are regularly disputed. See Category:Disputed fair use images, which contains several hundred images. So while the images in question might have slipped in under the radar on fair use, it is likely they would have eventually been picked up. The only reason I found these images is because I was doing recent changes patrolling against templates and pulled up {{Did you know}} looking for fair use violations, which is something I frequently do. See User:Durin#Fair_use_work. Other people may have found them in other ways, such as reviewing recent changes for images.
• I apologize that I did not remove the images from the articles in question. As you noted, I have now done this. It is indeed standard policy to remove them. I'm human too. :)
• I don't mind you pouring it on me. I don't mind being a bumper. I probably type more in explanation of various things than the vast majority of Wikipedians (for example, see this; most admins just close/delete without explanation). I'm not bragging on this; just noting that I'm happy to be the person you butted up against in this, as I'd much rather have me explain than have someone else barely explain or not explain at all and have you leave the project over a misunderstanding.
• I don't intend to complain to Jimbo about this policy because it's well founded in my opinion. Please understand; Wikipedia is under a *constant* onslaught of image uploads that are wildly inaccurate in their licensing and in their use on Wikipedia. A recent estimation of mine showed that we have more then 34,000 fair use violations, and that's just one area of copyright problems that we have with images. Used with permission images created a very significant problem for us, and it is an area that became intolerable because it was being badly abused. The CSD I3 criterion was in response to that, to give up some weapons to fight the very serious problems we have with copyright abuse. This goes to the core of the very survival of Wikipedia; if we come under an onslaught of copyright lawsuits, it would drain our (very limited) coffers. We just don't have the resources to fight such problems in court. I am not saying your images in particular are so egregious; just that the category they found themselves in is one of the battlegrounds of copyright problems on Wikipedia.
• As for being subjected to impolite treatment; Hey, that's your fault not mine :) Seriously, I don't take offense at people getting upset when policies are applied properly. We try very hard to educate users, and offer plenty of opportunity for them to be exposed to and understand our policies and guidelines. Still, it's a heavy task and one that only a small subset of users undertake prior to conducting a given contribution. I don't think there's much more we could do to educate our users prior to making contributions in contravention of our policies without locking down the encyclopedia for editing by all but trusted users. Of course the problem then is how do we get new trusted users, and the answer is we don't. So, some negative outcome of the application of policy is to be expected. It hurts, and we have users who get upset, but I'm not sure we can do much more short of a mandatory bootcamp or some such for new contributors. But, that again undermines the very basis of what we are as a project.
• I am at a loss as to understand the disconnect we are experiencing regarding the intent of this project and your viewpoint on what the intent of this project is. I wish we could amicably resolve this. I was rather startled to read this when my explanation was no less illuminating or less polite. --Durin 15:08, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

• Apology, though not needed, accepted. I have no grudge with you nor am I upset with you. I just wanted to try to amicably resolve this so that a person such as yourself who is making such fantastic contributions isn't pushed off the project. There are some people here who are quite happy to rip apart other users. I'm not one of them; everybody is important, from Jimbo down to the person making the first edit.

I'm happy to hear that :D I don't know of a person like me who makes fantastic contributions, but if you do, do give him or her my regards ;) Bravada, talk - 16:35, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

• Studying business does not mean you're an intellectual weakling :)

The other way around - being an intellectual weakling means you are limited to studying stuff like business :D Believe me - I know something about that :D Bravada, talk - 16:35, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

• Your English is fine! Prior to my looking at your user page a few minutes ago, I had no idea you were from Warsaw or indeed a non-native speaker of English.

It's nice of you to say so, and I guess that's the problem - we more or less assume we understand each other, when we might not :D Bravada, talk - 16:35, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

• I don't have a big interest in cars, so I don't know how often our paths will cross in our work here. But, I hope we will cross paths again. Apart from some misunderstandings, it has been a pleasure to work with you. I think we've ironed out the misunderstandings. All the best, --Durin 16:29, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Oh well, if that was a pleasure for you, I wonder what isn't! Very nice of you to say that though, I hope you will join the discussion I am intending to start on this and possible similar cases! Bravada, talk - 16:35, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Awesome, thanks for re-mailing the people. I'm not an expert on it, but for instance, at commoans, it seems like people do something like this... eg. put their requests in a subpage. Yeah, I think "okay" is fine. I'm not all that knowledgable about the details though. --Interiot 23:40, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply! I did not email anybody, BabyNuke was kind enough to do so (although I did not intend him to, I was just trying to get his opinion on that). I have asked the same question I asked you to Durin, and he stated that he would rather be more dilligent. As licensing under CC is a quite major issue, considering the possible results, I think it would be better to make sure Mr. Stedehouder understands all the aspects of the issue. Seems like I have to pester BabyNuke again... Bravada, talk - 23:44, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

If he gave permission for them to be licensed in a particular CC license, then you should definitely only tag the image with that specific license. It's not really even good to change the version of a license that someone agreed to (eg. cc-by-sa-2.0 to cc-by-sa-2.5). It really is a specific legal agreement that can only be changed by the copyright holder.

Also, for what it's worth, if you're worried in the "who owns the copyright" bit, even if someone licenses an image as GFDL, they still own the copyright to it (eg. if the creative commons is not valid in a country, then the image falls back to being simply copyrighted... or if someone doesn't accept the terms of the license (eg. they don't want to let people know who the original author was), then the image falls back to being simply copyrighted, and the person can be legally liable for copyright infringement because they don't have a valid license to use it)).

Regarding the main page... I have the technical ability to change it I suppose, but I don't really know much about the ins and outs of DYK, so I'm hesitent to override the decisions of the normal DYK'ers without knowing everything about it. Perhaps you could contact them directly? --Interiot 02:36, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I can look over the correspondence if you want. Yeah, {{copyrighted free use}} does seem to be appropriate.

Okay, so what specifically do you want done with DYK? I... haven't really done DYK at all before. You want Image:Ford Vedette Coupé 1950.jpg to replace the current picture, and Ford SAF to replace Matra Bagheera? --Interiot 03:48, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Exactement! If you could just move the Bagheera back to the talk page under August 19th, perhaps adding in edit summaries and the talk page that the DYK was removed back to the pool by user request, and then do the opposite with the Ford SAF DYK? As concerns replacing the picture, the edit summary should state that you are replacing it because it was featured on the 16th. This should be all lege artis. Thanks a lot in advance! Bravada, talk - 03:54, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Okay, the edits are made. Hopefully I didn't muck anything up with archiving or anything. I don't even read DYK usually, so if there's anything not quite right, let me know. "(pictured)" seems to be lacking, but I didn't know whether it was right to go into the explanatio of how the image is related to the factory.... --Interiot 04:20, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

I am unspeakably thankful! Everything is as it should be bar two small things, I forgot to tell you about them but you've got them on your talk page already. Funny how I now know the DYK updating procedure better than some admins :D :D :D As concerns "pictured", I think it is used rather liberally, so nothing will happen if you don't put it anywhere. As concerns what is pictured, well, the automobile(s) are :D

Hmm, now that I think about it, the picture is usually placed by the image that it illustrates, and in the last few dates the DYK that was illustrated was put as first by default so that it would look nice. Now it looks a bit like Tsar Alexander is illustrated by the Vedette pic :D Bravada, talk - 04:28, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Talk over my Talk page, will you? :P

If you're desperate, I could subpage the discussion you, Blnguyen and I are having. Chances are it'll have its own page when I next archive, since it's an important issue, so this would just be speeding up a natural process. BigHaz 03:01, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Sorry for that, I am just having a sleeping disorder, which is why I edit Wikipedia in the middle of the night and am usually quite unconscious when doing that - this is why my judgement is close to non-existent and I am usually quite ashamed after what I did between 0 and 4 AM here :D That said, I still believe than Wenn Du Da Bist makes a great DYK! Bravada, talk - 03:05, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Sir, please check your email. Thanks, Blnguyen | rant-line 08:05, 18 August 2006 (UTC).

DYK

Wasn't talking about you, was talking about an e-mail I got entitled "SAVE EUROVISION ON DYK!!!!!". That was clearly histrionic -- Samir धर्म 12:27, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Last thing wiktionary:histrionics does not necessarily mean histrionic personality disorder -- Samir धर्म 12:32, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

random stuff

Thanks for the barnstar, though Durin probably deserves his more because he's extremely accomodating compared to most admins.

So this is the sort of silly sub-stub I write when I start out articles. I don't know how you DYK people crank out great writing.

Anyway, I'll join the talk page you mentioned. --Interiot 14:50, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Someone's block expires in ~2 hours. :| Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Automobiles was starting to seem more normal too... --Interiot 14:00, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Ford SAF

Malcolma, thanks a lot for taking care of the Ford SAF article. I will be grateful if you could state what sources you were using when expanding this article. If you speak German, you might also want to take a look at this page - it provides some more information on the commercial vehicle side of the business. Regards, Bravada, talk - 14:46, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

I used mainly the Beaulieu Encyclopedia of the Automobile, a massive 3 volume work I treated myself to. Sorry, should have added the source to the article. I'll do it now.Malcolma 15:56, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

I have checked and ammended the refs as you requested. We seem to be lacking a Ford Germany article unless I just can't find it. Any ideas? I can start one from the same source if you wish but it is something about which I know virtually nothing.Malcolma 17:39, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Great, thanks a lot! I will try to find references for the other parts then... Seems like our level of knowledge about Ford Cologne is quite comparable :D I will let you know if I find something, but please do start the article with whatever you have - I will join in if there will be anything I will be able to add. BTW, does the book mention when Automobiles Ford became Ford SAF? Regards, Bravada, talk - 17:44, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Brazilian Astra (Chevrolet)

Bravada, I´m now a owner of a Chevrolet Astra CD (my 1998 Marea engine blown-up!). I made a litle research about the Astra here in Brazil and it seems that it saw a different history here. The Astra was facelifted in early 2003 (before the Astra H introduction) only in Brazil. The interior panel was facelifted again in 2005 (it's a pitty because I've bought a 2004 Astra and the new panel is pretty beutiful!!!). The new Opel Astra (H) will probably never saw the light in Brazil because it's design was borowed for the Chevrolet Vectra, which is based on the Chevrolet Astra platform!!! The engine of the Astra 2.0 (116cv) is the same of the Chevrolet Monza (a rather old car even by brazilian standards! And very few information exists on wikipedia about the brazilian Monza - based on the Ascona). The current brazilian Astra received a Flexpower engine which can use petrol or alcohol or any mix of those (121cv with petrol and 127cv with alcohol). The Astra SS model was also introduced in 2006. See the photos on [9] (click on any image of the Astra to see more). The interior is very unique. I'll try to summarize more information about the Chevrolet Astra an will put it into the Opel Astra article. If it gets too long then we create an article for the Chevrolet Astra and link to it from the Opel Astra article. Regards. Loudenvier 06:36, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Lancia Kappa

Just to let you know Lancia Kappa (which you nominated) has failed Good Article criteria. The reasons can be found on the article talk page. Thanks Alexj2002 09:01, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Fiat acquisitions

In response to the comments by you and another editor I've nominated image:Fiat Acquisitions over Time.GIF for deletion. That discussion is here: Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion#August 20. Cheers, -Will Beback 09:07, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

DYK

No probs Bravada. Missed the picture on the 16th for some reason. Happy to see the Vedette back in its glory. Take care -- Samir धर्म 06:50, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

I'd leave it on the page; we'll handle it when the time comes... Cheers -- Samir धर्म 06:55, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Ford Germany

I have put together the bare bones of an article on Ford Germany from what info I have. There is loads of stuff on the web about the relationship between the company and the Nazi party but I will leave that to someone else. I know nothing of the truck manufacture which is why it is omitted. Malcolma 10:28, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

GM do Brasil engines

I was looking at the GM engines (family 0, 1, 2...) on wikipedia and found very litle information about the brazilian flex-fuel engined (FlexPower). GM do Brasil seems even to have made a Multipower engine (ethanol, petrol or LPG based engine). The problem is that I don't know nothing about engines! And I don't know either where to find the engine designation numbers. Did you know someone who kwnows something :-) about engines that could work with me on this? By the way I did nothing yet about the SIMCA... :-( Regards Loudenvier 16:31, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Image:Talbot Matra Murena vr red.jpg

Hi, Bravada, I'm aware of this problem, but because I'm allways short of time i use the IrfanView function. The reason is, that the IrfanView file handling is much better than that of GIMP, thats all. As you allreday mentioned i did a lot of uploads, so proper preparing the number plates is threatening me. Please feel free to update the pictures, we work together, so let me take the pictures and the upload, and, if necessary, update them. Best regards -- Stahlkocher 15:16, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Great! I but never heard of an Talbot Tagora before. Interesting! I took a lot of shots this Sunday, but i think i did not catch any Simcas or Talbots. They did not sell well in germany. But i took several shots of a Peugeot 402, which is very rare too. I will upload the pictures asap. -- Stahlkocher 15:50, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Matra Bagheera

hi Bravada. thanks for the note. I did it, after managing to economise some of the other six DYK entries. Thanks, Blnguyen | rant-line 01:11, 24 August 2006 (UTC).

GA

Your signature with timestamp

Ok, your right no I have never rated a GA before but aim to do one a week. THis was the first. I did compare a little against a few other good articles however I tried to read the article like an interested party who was in the dark. All of the references look ok, I dont feel the content is NPOV or OR and I think it is pretty well written. It does need more work for FA status but it is well on its way and much better than most articles.

My rating is based on the fact that the article is easy to read, makes sense and the sources look ofk (admittedly only after a brief read through). Personally my understanding of GA is for articles with very minor problems of a good standard and that are easy to learn from (remembering this is an encyclopedia after all). --Errant Tmorton166^(Talk)(Review me) 21:18, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

sorry yes I did use the GA criteria! But I allowed my own opinions override ot. An article does not have to meet all guidelines and be perfect to be good (IMO). Call it an aplication of WP:IAR (which I support very much) --Errant Tmorton166^(Talk)(Review me) 21:28, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

They're at it again

Où Aller is up for AfD. I wonder how many need to be nominated before people decide that there's a precedent. BigHaz 22:48, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Simca and Ford Germany

I'll have a look at the article and see what I have on the pre war cars.

PS. I had nothing to do with an article on the Lux-Sport. I'm not even sure what it is. My latest efforts have been the Rover P3 car and Gordon England (coachbuilders). Neither of these came up in the listing of Automobile recent changes for reasons I don't understand.

On Ford Germany I have no objections to it moving to Ford Werke but please keep a redirect from Ford Germany as that is more likaly to be typed in by someone looking for the article. I have put in a re-direct for the name Ford France to Ford SAF on the same basis. Malcolma 17:42, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Pics

Hi Bravada, Not much luck in Seville. I got a Talbot Horizon and a SEAT Ronda but these are night pics. I'll see what can I do with Photoshop at work tomorrow. By the way the Ronda article is dreadful!!! E Asterion ^{u talking to me?} 20:52, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

That's great. I'm off to bed now. Talk to you tomorrow or Wednesday. Cheers, E Asterion ^{u talking to me?} 22:47, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Matra Rancho

Whoops. Very sorry. I think it was put under the 22nd section when it was created on the 23rd, so I missed it because it was the 28th and I thought it had expired when it had not. Sorry again, Blnguyen | rant-line 23:40, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

In a month or so, I will nominate you and BigHaz for administrator (once everybody will be fine with your length of service) - User:Blnguyen/RfA.Blnguyen | rant-line 00:00, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

I'll have to look closer of course, but I was still hoping...I feel it is wrong to pick one's own noms, so I don't do it, but by picking other people's stuff you shorten the queue and give yourself a better chance...I think I'll just bend the rules and put Rancho in there in a couple of hours to make up for the mistake. Nobody will get too angry...Blnguyen | rant-line 00:18, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

DYK

Yes, I was in a hurry, which is why I placed the selections in the staging area right above the instructions you mentioned for later informing. I thought that was okay. Anyway, I'll do them now. - Mgm|^(talk) 22:11, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the notice. you might like to do the notes again, I'm in a bit of a rush again. Thanks, Blnguyen | rant-line 03:07, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

History of philosophy in Poland

Thanks for bringing my attention to Blnguyen having featured this article in the August 30, 2006, DYK! It was a pleasant surprise to see the article there. logologist|Talk 08:38, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Simca do Brasil

Hi Bravada, I'm working on translating the Simca do Brasil site. I will only be able to translate a few pages per day. Hope this will suffice. I'll be posting the new versions here since you could get information before waiting for the complete translation. It's a loose translation and I als did ommit superfluous information sometimes. Regards. Loudenvier 15:17, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Simca do Brasil Intro Text

It was a long time ago in the year 1964 when I'got my first contact with the Simca. It was through a Jangada that my father bought in January 1964, with few months of use, since his old 1952 blue Desoto didn't inspire reliability for a long vacation trip that he wanted to do with the Belo Horizonte (a continental city) to Cabo Frio (a city by the sea, in Rio de Janeiro state).

I don't remember all the facts, cause with only 2 years I was switching places between the laps of my mother and our baby-sitter in the front seats - the concepts of security were others...

On the rear seats my other three brothers and on the litle seats by the trunk/boot my two last brothers handle themselves among the luggage. And on the car roof a lot of junk.

(The intro text goes on an on talking about the recollections of the auther and his contact with the SIMCA models).

It was in 24, June, 1983 that I´ve bought my first SIMCA which was a black Présidence, plate number AG 3100, which had been owned by the senator Camilo Nogueira da Gama.

In 14, June, 1984 I´ve bought a Chambord 1965.

In august 1985 I´ve bought a Chambord 1963.

In 13 of July, 1986, I´ve bought a Jangada 1966.

(There are a few important notes on the text however...)

Like the other cars produced in the first stage of the brazilian automobile industry, the Simca was a car that had already completed its cycle in its origin (France). A few million dollars more wouldn't hurt if came from a small investment in a small industry in a third-world country claiming for industrial growth.

They brought to Brazil vehicles not meant to be driven in our roads and streets, that weren't designed to face the adversities of our climate and topography. There were some tests on a few french Chambord that came by air-plane to Brazil, but the results weren't of the brazilian Chambord weren't the best.

Herbert Cohen, a São Paulo dentist, recalled that when he bought the first Chambord sold in Sando André, on its first weekend he went proud to a barbecue filling the car with his friends. They didn't make the first ramp, so all had to step out of the vehicle because the car simply wasn't able to climb the ramp.

From this facts came the fame of The Simca of Belo Antônio. However, a few years later, when testing the Chambord Emi-Sul the maganize Quatro Rodas (the most important automobile maganize in Brazil, still active today) defined the car as "a big deal of a car".

It was the hard work of Gilberto Baeta, Hélene Pasteur e many other brazilian and french that dedicated a great deal of their lives and much sweet to transform horrible vehicles into reliable, high quality automobiles, mainly because the French headquartes demanded profits without investing any more than the strictly necessary.

The Simca do Brasil was an excellent example that hard work, determination and perserverance when allied to valorous and competent people, can suffice for the lack of financial investiment and lead to satisfactory results.

(NOW I WILL GO ON WITH THE TECHNICAL ARTICLES)

About Simca do Brasil

It was founded on the 05 of may, 1958, in Belo Horizonte, Minas Gerais state, with branch offices in Rio de Janeiro, and São Bernardo do Campo (São Paulo). It was called the Sociedade Anônima Industrial de Motores, Caminhões e Automóveis (Industrial Motors, Trucks and Automobiles Corporation).

The caming of the french industry to Brazil was the direct result of the plans of the government of Juscelino Kubitschek, which sent delegations of members of the government and busisnessman overseas in search for multinational industries interessed in starting producing automobiles in Brazil.

... keep waiting... more coming soon :-) Loudenvier 15:17, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Snakeskin

Hmmm.. that's a riddle indeed. It might've been indeed Śniadeckich, if not for two facts: there was no college there and most of the campus of the University of Science and Technology was still in Polish hands on 18th (also the main building, the closest to Śniadeckich). Judging by the date, the college in question might've been located somewhere in the Old Town. Alternative location might've been Sielce and Czerniaków, however this seems unlikely as the area was seized by the Poles the preceding night and the Germans retook only a small part of it during the day. Anyway, if the earlier is correct, it might've been for instance Świętojerska, which was quite long before 1945 and was partially in German hands. However, I don't know if there were any colleges there.

Yet another theory comes to my mind when I think of it now: perhaps the entire riddle is easier to solve than you think. In the English edition of his Warsaw Rising, Norman Davies used an interesting method of representing all personal names and toponyms by their translation or approximation. This made them easier to remember for an English ear (hence Niedźwiadek turned into Bear-Cub, and so on). Perhaps the name was coined by Norman Davies? If that's the case, the first thing to check is the index in that book. Sadly, I have only Polish edition, but perhaps Piotrus might be able to help you?

Anyway, I'll think of it later today. //Halibutt 05:45, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Hah! I found the author of the "Snakeskin" thing - it was John Ward, the Brit to work for the Polish radio during the Uprising. In his dispatches he mentions the Snakeskin street on August 19th, not 18th. On that day the Poles indeed abandoned the main building of the University of Science, but I could not confirm whether the burning ruin had been immediately taken by the Germans or not. In any case, Ward had been locked up in the city centre rather than the Old Town, which means that he most probably referred to some street there. Perhaps you could contact the author of the page I linked above to check whether he put the name correctly - or check the book yourself (Andrzej Pomian; The Warsaw Rising: A Selection of Documents. London, 1945). In any case, it seems that Snakeskin was yet another of Ward's inventions and not a typo, as were Marshmallows street (Marszałkowska), Jeroboams (Aleje Jerozolimskie), and so on. It hardly helps us in solving the riddle... //Halibutt 06:04, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

DYK

Hi Bravada, it wasn't my update, it was Grue's. Cheers -- Samir धर्म 14:31, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Full body scan

As far as I see the article is fully referenced, and NPOVed by the same editor who put a POV tag on it. All facts are sourced. Perhaps appearance on Main Page would bring more attention to this article, and people would add more facts. I don't see how this is a bad thing.  Grue  14:31, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

As a compromise, I tweaked the tagline to something I felt was more appropriate. Please let me know if you agree. -- Samir धर्म 14:35, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Bravada, I totally see your point. There probably are more appropriate articles than this one. I removed a whole lot of junk from the article and only kept the sourced stuff. But I'll leave it to Grue to make the call, -- Samir धर्म 14:43, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

The voice

Hi Bravada. That paragraph that was cut out, I should source it, came from 50th anniversary competition that outcry over IReland winning too much lead to the introduction of televoting. Teel me what you think.Blnguyen | rant-line 22:27, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

I love the Irish Eurovision actually. I think they should bring back the jury so that the old style French and Irish ballads can be brought back. Long live the Johnny Logans of this world and the Brian Kennedy style. I will get the source for you, and I hope it stays, because it is a related event, like the Israeli culture minister threatening to resign over Shir Habatlanim. I forgot to mention that the source was the Kenndey O'Connor's book dubbed the "Official history". Blnguyen | rant-line 23:47, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

"That"

Oops.. thanks for pointing it out :) -- Samir धर्म 00:56, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Merging...

I'd merge the articles, but how? Sorry, I'm still a WikiNoob. Cheers! 206.81.151.68 20:47, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, the above comment was made by me, The RSJ 20:48, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Dunno either, actually, I was hoping for some admin to see the tag and help :D What I would do is move the content from the Acura articles (I guess you are referring to the Honda Legend stuff) to the Honda article (I mean copying and pasting, but also making sure it's seamless, so you would have to integrate the text on given generations with the other ones) and replacing it with redirects to the Honda page (to create the redirect, press the rightmost button in the menu above when in edit mode).

As the articles are currently pretty much a mess, I believe you can give it a try. I recommend starting a sandbox page (you can create one in your own userspace, just click on your username in the top menu and add e.g. "/Honda Legend" to the web address, like "User:The Runescape/Honda Legend") and trying to dump the content from all three articles there and trying to stitch them together. While you're at it, you might want to do a bit of research to fill in the gaps, especially concerning the non-American versions - do remember to put down all sources you used!

Once you are ready, you could notify an admin dealing with car articles, like User:Interiot, that you've got a merged version ready and ask whether he could give it a go or tell you what to do next. If you will need any further assistance, I will be glad to help you anyway I can :D

Thanks again for volunteering to do this, I guess I would have kept postponing it forever... Bravada, talk - 21:05, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Wow, it seems more complicated than I thought. I should've expected this, though. I'm probably not going to do it soon, as junior high has started for me, and my homework pile is rather large. I'll try during the next big school vacation I have, hmm, maybe Thanksgiving, no, I'll be in New York; Christmas? Yes, that sounds good. I'll try during Christmas lol. Cheers! The RSJ 21:11, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Ha ha, thanks, you make me feel better... Cheers! The RSJ 21:16, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Chysler 180

Sorry Bravada. I have been kind of busy with the nasty side of wikipedia (i.e. Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration#Kosovo) and forgot all about it. I am about to go offline for today (R.L.), I will finish uploading the photos from Seville tomorrow morning and concentrate on some serious editing. I have not forgotten either about the Fiat 125 images. Take care. E Asterion ^{u talking to me?} 14:09, 2 September 2006 (UTC)