Talk:School bus

Fixing the page...

has hung over large portions of the page for the longest time, as an eyesore. While the tag is there for a point, it also is hard to include content that doesn't exist. As the content of the article goes to show, these are a distinct type of bus, separate from other bus configurations and designs. In many other locations in the world, while buses are used to transport students to school, said buses are the same design as other buses. In some parts of the world (Asia and Europe), school systems are introducing dedicated school buses, although designs are still based on standard buses.

In reality, this is a North American design that is emulated through the both the developed world and in rural locations; THIS is what the article needs to capitalize on to take the tags down. --SteveCof00 (talk) 10:43, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Split

I think that the split proposed about 4 years ago makes sense. However, it would make the article even more focused on North America. I think that with proper signposting, that would be acceptable. What should the other proposed article be called? School buses around the world? International use of school buses? - - mathmitch7 ^{(talk/contribs)} 19:04, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

I've split it to School bus by country. If the title isn't accurate, feel free to move it. Since the proposal to split existed since 2014, I've just gone ahead and boldly moved it as it's also justified by guideline. The editor whose username is Z0 20:39, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

That works. Thank you! - - mathmitch7 ^{(talk/contribs)} 22:18, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

If I remember right, I may have been the one who proposed the split, as the international content began to overtake the article having a singular scope, so this arrangement works well. The section may eventually benefit for a lead-in sentence or two alongside the main-article link. In the end, the title may benefit from changing, but the current page fits well as a sub-page of both school bus and student transport. --SteveCof00 (talk) 08:02, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

Explaining new changes...

To better accommodate some editing, I shook things up a bit with the format. Initially, it may seem odd to take out "School bus safety", but in reality, the former section was fairly ambiguous. As the vehicle design involves a lot of safety features, this format better consolidates the feature content together and downplays manufacturing content as well.

Some content was removed from the lead (to make a lead for a new section...and to cool off those who always tag the "globalize" template.--SteveCof00 (talk) 10:52, 27 October 2018 (UTC)

World view issues and potential merge

As noted by the template message at the beginning of the article, there seems to be only one viewpoint mentioned for the majority of the article, that being the North American viewpoint. Since the article is named 'School bus' would it not be appropriate to merge this article with the 'School bus by country' article? That would help to fix a number of issues with there not being adequate coverage of international viewpoints. --QuadColour (talk) 04:40, 17 January 2020 (UTC)

Oppose Reading into the tag and its mission to counter systemic bias, it is a question that can be brought up for discussion. On the other hand, if a product is invented in a specific region, developing a worldwide view of the subject can be difficult (if not impossible). As far as the merge proposal, School bus by country was split from here a couple of years ago; since doing so, the article has nearly doubled in size on its own and merging this article (becoming a explanation of their design and function) would defeat the purpose of an article detailing them by locale. While imperfect, the current article has never been biased to the point of being politically incorrect (or a fansite); something that has largely been developed in North America has been given article space, with information on its usage elsewhere in the world following (over the years). --SteveCof00 (talk) 09:59, 17 January 2020 (UTC)

I see your point about the merge, and agree that that wouldn't be the best way forwards. I think my problem with this article is that it is called 'School bus' yet only deals with school buses from North America. If you presented someone with the title alone, they would probably assume that this article would deal with all types of school bus, not just ones from a specific country. Would it not be more appropriate for this article to be called 'School buses in North America' with the other article called 'School bus'? You could then link this page from the North American section within that article as a suggestion for further reading for someone interested in this particular viewpoint. My feeling is that while the current layout of this article and its sister article (School bus by country) makes sense in the context of their development, that context is not as important as how the information is presented to a first time reader. --QuadColour (talk) 06:34, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

Oppose until articles are cleaned up

School bus by country talks alot about other countries who don't have school buses.

It also doesn't once describe a school bus.

Oh and it has ZERO information on US School buses. Plus 'school bus' has 600 redirect links to it that need to be reviewed and repointed if this move stays. Slywriter (talk) 22:03, 22 January 2020 (UTC)

Oppose name change as well as the originally-suggested merge. I find the reasoning from SteveCof00 for keeping this article's focus as-is compelling. If this article ends up being renamed away from "School bus," I strongly oppose putting a separate article with different content into the "School bus" space as was suggested (and nearly happened). I would further strongly support making/keeping the redirect from "School bus" to be pointed to "here" (whatever this specific article's title ends up being) per normal redirect conventions. School buses are a North American (U.S.) invention, nearly their entire developmental and implementation history occurred in N.A., and their use in other contexts outside of North America is inconsistent, sporadic, and almost-always traceable back to the U.S. or Canada in some way. There's nothing wrong with an occasional general article that has a U.S. or North American focus, when that subject is so firmly rooted in there. And in my opinion people looking for "School bus" are far more likely than not to be looking for U.S./N.A.-specific information. --Pinchme123 (talk) 04:24, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

Oppose merge as that would cause a huge ton of problems and Oppose moving back (Whilst I did want this originally moved back given ithe article primarily deals with the American bus it wouldn't really make sense to move back), I would however Support turning School bus into a disambiguation page ...... I don't agree with that redirect pointing to the NA article (due to the term being a worldwide one) and I don 't agree with it pointing to the list..... so IMHO the next best solution is a disam page?... –Davey2010^Talk 13:06, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

Oppose moving now. Can someone take that stupid "worldwide view" flag down? It is confusing and ugly. This (excellent) article is clearly US-Canada specific and doesn't need any worldwide view. I think it was Steve who spun off "of the World" long ago. We are talking about the name only, correct?

I don't understand why "This request to revert this very controversial move was denied". By who and why? This move was so out of line, and I doubt I am the only one who smells "stink" (but others may be more polite). This seems so "open and shut" to me, nobody has any justification for doing this.

The Brits are always going to do this. We have stolen the word, others use it too. For a few UK English people thinking about language, we have. I don't think they realize the universal use of the term in the US/Canada. It does look very US-centric, the subject is. I do think in the future some use of "of North America" might work. Sammy D III (talk) 13:26, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

Sammy D III, The term is not only used in America.... "school bus" is used in many many different countries so therefore it would make sense to redirect to somewhere appropriate, This isn't about Brits Vs Americans, This is about putting our readers first and helping them find what they're looking for and it's also about being a neutral project (ie not all just American or British). –Davey2010^Talk 13:38, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

I'm going to but in here, we all know how polite I am:

You assume that I oppose "of NA". You assume that I don't understand the problem with the word usage itself. You assume that I am US-centric.

I have always asked to undo your sleezy move and come back to the Talk page. How can you not realize that you would win a request for move?

You tried to pull this middle of the night crap (and screwed it up). You got popped. Start over and do your damn move request. (Edit: oops, you did.)(I did enjoy learning how to do ANI, though).

Your polite lecture is just for looks, of course. You know what I am buying. Sammy D III (talk)

You're essentially debunking the "worldwide view" point of my comment so ofcourse I'm going to reply, Second the 2 userboxes on your userpage[1] would to me indicate you are American.

I also am not the one who moved this article and wouldn't ever dream of making such actions (because it would cause issues such as this!).

I haven't tried anything ? .... I reverted my redirect change[2] pending the WP:RM/TM Technical move discussion which as since moved to this page

I wasn't lecturing neither, Simply trying to put my point across. –Davey2010^Talk 15:53, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

I am an "American", I thought that was obvious. This article is specifically US/Canada and doesn't need a "worldwide view" (I wish somebody would take that stupid flag down). That does not mean the name is not a problem, or that I cannot see that it is.

I don't know who did what, I saw you editing and your "eloquent" edit summaries. "You" applies to any/all who were involved. Please don't deny that there were anti-"American" motives involved. Gotta go, later. Sammy D III (talk) 16:29, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

Sources for use beyond North America? With nearly 600 redirects from other articles to school bus, 3 are non North American links.

School buses by country has zero relevant redirects.

The claim that this term is used globally or that school buses are a global phenomenon is flimsy at best.

Slywriter (talk) 14:09, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

School buses are most definitely used in places other than North America. See School bus by country for many examples. In addition, here is a British publication (the highway code) using the term school bus: [3] Also, here is a British transport operator using the term: [4] I've looked at a couple of non-english speaking countries and they all seem to use the term school bus in their respective language. Here's a rough translation from some German Legislation "Vehicles that are particularly used for school transport must be identified on the front and rear with a sign according to Appendix 4...a sign with the inscription 'school bus' is sufficient." [5]

The problem of having to transport children to and from school is not something unique to North America and your suggestion otherwise is certainly an interesting proposition - QuadColour (talk) 18:22, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

Have you read school bus by country? How about student transport? Very little mention of school buses in either article. Or when they are mentioned, they appear to be uncommon. Perhaps those articles are wrong but I do not see the universal and global application of the term. Slywriter (talk) 19:44, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

A ctrl+f search of school bus by country for the term 'school bus' gives 133 matches. I personally wouldn't say that counts as 'very little mention'. All of the 13 countries listed in that article make some mention of a school bus. If that isn't global application of a term I don't know what is. I don't know if I'm missing your point but what is the issue here exactly? School buses and the term 'school bus' are both globally accepted and I think I've provided a fair bit of evidence here to prove that. - QuadColour (talk) 22:00, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

Strongly Oppose Along with the opposition of the move by multiple editors that has come out on the talk page (and on other locations), the article move had made this page invisible across a wide variety of other languages (31 at the time of the move). I've seen nearly all of them (translated, of course) and while some openly borrow content from the English version, others have gone on separately on the content of the vehicles in their countries. If invented in this part of the world and adapted for use elsewhere, it is not encyclopedic to rewrite/rename the article to "fit global views" (yellow school buses or anything else). As the article is worded, they are specific to the US/Canada (just their best-known usage); the article has several hatnotes at the top as well. --SteveCof00 (talk) 09:51, 25 January 2020 (UTC)

"they are specific to the US/Canada" - I'm sorry but I have to disagree there. Sure, I would consider US school buses to be the 'best-known' due to media depictions. But to say that school buses are specific to the US sounds quite strange to me. If that was the case, school bus by country would be completely empty. If that was the case, I wouldn't have been able to get to school as a child. I don't live in the US but every day a bus (contracted by the local school) came along and took me (along with a lot of other kids) directly to school. If that was the case, there would be no reason for these pictures to exist. [1] [2] [3] This line of reasoning seems peculiar to me. It seems that this idea of school buses being a concept used purely in North America is incorrect. But, with sources such as this very article providing a disparity of coverage between North America and the rest of the world (10,000 words on NA vs 56 words on the rest of the world), it's no wonder that these ideas exist. - QuadColour (talk) 11:40, 25 January 2020 (UTC)

Requested move 23 January 2020 (Requested reversion of prior move)

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: revert the page to the previous title, School bus, per the discussion below. Dekimasuよ! 14:24, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

---

School buses in North America → School bus – "School Bus" was moved to "School bus in North America" with nearly no discussion on talk page SteveCof00 (talk) 10:38, 22 January 2020 (UTC)

This is a contested technical request (permalink). ~~ CAPTAIN MEDUSA^talk 14:36, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

+1 - There's currently an edit war on School bus over the target ...., As SteveCof00 states no discussion was had over this so imho the page move should be reverted and then a discussion should occur. (I've since undone my redirect change pending this discussion) –Davey2010^Talk 20:32, 22 January 2020 (UTC)

The only edit warrior is Davey2010 who seems to have an issue with other editors and the US in particular. His language in edit summaries has been rude and should be looked into.[6]

The school bus article has nearly 600 redirects pointing to it and article involved need cleanup before a new redirect is created. A reader following the existing redirects will find no information on what's a school bus or any information of US School buses if the final target is school buses by country.

So yes entire move should be undone but if it's not, it needs to remain pointed at the North America article until editors fix the underlying articles

Slywriter (talk) 22:01, 22 January 2020 (UTC)

Sorry but that's utter nonsense, I don't have any problems with any editors nor the US .... My main and only problem is a worldwide term pointing to an American-only article.... That really is my only gripe here. –Davey2010^Talk 13:11, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

Thank you Slywriter. Stable version, back to Talk. Sammy D III (talk) 00:13, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

This request to revert this very controversial move was denied and discussion moved to the article's talk page, but with unanimous agreement to move it back first and then discuss, which is usual for recent undiscussed moves, I've restored it here [Requests to revert undiscussed moves]. Station1 (talk) 09:13, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

Note that everyting above this line was moved here from WP:RM/TR#Requests to revert undiscussed moves. This should have been automatically reverted before discussion. Station1 (talk) 20:57, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose. A general term like "school bus" should not be taken up by a region-specific article. Furthermore, School bus should not redirect to the region-specific article, but instead be converted to a dab page, or redirect to a more general article, such as School bus by country. The problem as I see it stems from when all the non-US content was split from the article 18 months ago, leaving a US-specific rump article. What should have happened at this point was the US-specific content should have been split to a US-specific article (and not the other way around, which is what did happen).212.135.65.247 (talk) 13:54, 23 January 2020 (UTC)
• Support move (perferrably revert) so it can be stable and a new move request can be made. Sammy D III (talk) 15:49, 23 January 2020 (UTC) here.
• Strongly Support. To be clear, this is a reversion of something that was done without discussion. If the community would like to discuss new names for the article "School bus," that discussion should be welcomed following reversion. But as it is right now, this article needs to be restored back to where it was before this mess occurred without discussion. Further, the term "school bus" is nowhere near as widespread as some people think it to be, as can bee seen by even its lack of use or mentions of caveats in the specific examples listed at School bus by country. There are isolated cases of the U.S./North American concept of a school bus being exported to specific locations, but the development and implementation of a bus that is specifically and only for school transportation - AKA a school bus - has nearly its entire history in North America. Sometimes a subject really is North American-centric. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pinchme123 (talk • contribs) 16:53, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

  Thank you to the SineBot. One of these days I'll stop occasionally forgetting to sign. --Pinchme123 (talk) 17:12, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

What kind of bizarre insular bubble do you live in where you think the concept of a dedicated school bus is restricted to North America? 212.135.65.247 (talk) 10:52, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

I live in the world where decisions on Wikipedia that are contentious go through discussion to reach a consensus. That didn't happen here.

I also do international research in qute a few places as a social scientist and stand behind my fact-based assessment of the concept of "school bus." In the few places where there is a specific thing called a "school bus" and it is distinct from all the other buses around it, those school buses were introduced quite recently and as a result of seeing how well they work in North America. At no point did I claim they are "restricted to North America" - in fact, I specifically noted that there are isolated cases of "school bus" around the world - and so I'll ask you to not misrepresent what I write.

--Pinchme123 (talk) 14:14, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

It's a shame your research wasn't thorough enough for you to discover that local authorities in the UK have been required to provide free school transport for pupils living over 2-3 miles from school since 1944, and that British schoolchildren make 370m journeys annually on "school buses".[7] School buses are not restricted to "isolated cases" outside of North America as you claim. The concept of a school bus is a global one. 212.135.65.247 (talk) 14:35, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

You identified one case of school transport in a country with less than 1% of the world's population as your irrefutable evidence of worldwide adoption of the vehicle known as a "school bus"? Also, do you want to address the other issue I raised regarding the !voting matter at hand, namely that on Wikipedia, contentious changes follow WP:BRD? --Pinchme123 (talk) 15:13, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

No, I picked one example to show you that the US does not have a monopoly on school buses, and that a US-biased article is not the primary topic for a term as general as "school bus", which of course can mean different things to different people. An overview or disambiguation page needs to sit at "school bus" and this regional variation of the concept should stay where it is. 212.135.65.247 (talk) 15:22, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

It's pretty clear to me that "school transport" is not the same thing as a specific "school bus." I would encourage you to share your opinion during what will hopefully be the post-revert discussion. But until then, this article needs to be put back per WP:BRD. --Pinchme123 (talk) 15:39, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

And it's clear to me that a "school bus" is any dedicated bus service taking children to school, not a specific construction of vehicle. But that's a regional difference, and exactly why this regional bias is not the primary topic for "school bus". 212.135.65.247 (talk) 15:49, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

Funny, first google link from UK google using search term "school bus UK" directly refutes this. [[8]]Slywriter (talk) 16:11, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

Firstly, there's no way that that is the first search return. Secondly, at no point does it refute anything. 212.135.65.247 (talk) 16:25, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

Agree on link, worthless. Number, do you know what we are talking about? The first move was a mistake, screwed things up, and we are trying to fix it. The person who made the mistake to start with supports this move. This isn't about the name, it is about fixing a screw-up. What you are saying comes later.Sammy D III (talk) 18:08, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

Of course I know what we're talking about. The problem stems from the split however. The US material should have been split off, not the general material. This article now has the correct name. The only way it should be moved back is if the two articles are re-merged. 212.135.65.247 (talk) 10:50, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

No, I don't think you understand me at all. The previous move/name change was a technical mistake. When it was done the article was messed up, re-directs and stuff. This box is so the article can go back to how it was so it can be discussed and maybe changed correctly, so everythying works.

The second this box closes a different request for move will go up. That box is where we argue about the name. Everybody, from both sides, supports this move except you. Sammy D III (talk) 12:56, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

No, the article wasn't "messed up". There was a single, simple page move, which to my mind was the correct action, and not a "mistake". There was a bit of an edit war as to where School bus should redirect, but this has no consequence to the history of this article. Everything still "works". There's no need to move it back for procedural reasons only when it so clearly inappropriate for this article to reside there. 212.135.65.247 (talk) 13:50, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

Well, you certainly have not followed enough of this to understand. This is circular. Sammy D III (talk) 15:01, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

Educate me then. What exactly has been "messed up"? 212.135.65.247 (talk) 15:05, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

I didn't expect "real-time". Please give me a few minutes. Sammy D III (talk) 15:28, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

As soon as I saw this I went to AN/I. " US school buses have been hidden from search engines without discussion" is closed near the bottom Basically I said "This doesn't work. Is this move good or should it be reverted?" After all that off-topic crap I thought it worked, but then this was posted about languages and this about page views. It's just easier to start over. Stuff is spread all over now anyway, say it all again in the same place. Sammy D III (talk) 16:10, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

Okay, that's just gibberish. It seems to be you that doesn't actually understand what is going on here. Nothing is so irrevocably "messed up" that a revert on this move is necessary. I know I'm in the minority, but a procedural revert is pointless purely to discuss it to move it back here where it belongs. 212.135.65.247 (talk) 16:13, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

It's pretty clear to me what Sammy D III is saying and not gibberish at all. First they linked to a comment that stated, this move (prior to the redirect getting fixed) misdirected non-English WP pages as well as popular search engines to an entirely incorrect article, because they were all linked to "School bus" and such links no longer led to this page's content. Second, they noted their own comment noting that the offending move that we're trying to revert broke pageview analysis history for this article. If you have your way, "School bus" will not point to this article's content, meaning those 31 non-English WP pages will all now have bad links. And I don't even know if reverting this error will fix the pageview analysis history, or if that's been irrevocably broken by this carelessness. --Pinchme123 (talk) 16:50, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

Actually, if we get an overview article at school bus, those "31 non-English WP pages" will have better links, as they won't be pointing to a page with a severe North American bias. 212.135.65.247 (talk) 16:56, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

We already have an overview article. If you don't like that the school bus was invented and implemented in North America, I suggest you contact Doc Brown. --Pinchme123 (talk) 17:14, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

I would like to point out that an overview article that only covers North America is not a very good overview. School bus by country shows that school buses are used around the world. Just because school buses were invented in the US, doesn't mean you can ignore the modern day use-cases in the rest of the world. Could you imagine the outrage if the article for cars only talked about German cars? Makes sense since they were invented in Germany... - QuadColour (talk) 19:34, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

• Support - Whilst it does seem a lot of flaffing around this is something that really should have been discussed first and not after, I still maintain school bus to be a worldwide thing and not just an American thing but other than that I completely agree with Pinchme123s sentiments. –Davey2010^Talk 17:00, 23 January 2020 (UTC)
• Support bizaro world where the controversial move required no discussion but this requires a discussion. This article is a better template for any future actions. Slywriter (talk) 17:57, 23 January 2020 (UTC)
• Support reverting original move per BRD. I bet this will shake out to the main School bus page being a general overview that is not country specific but this revert should preserve edit history at the correct place while that discussion shakes out. Axem Titanium (talk) 21:26, 23 January 2020 (UTC)
• Support I think the article should be moved back and we can then have the discussion there. I am in favour of this article having its current name but recognise that a discussion should have happened before it was moved in the first place QuadColour (talk) 22:40, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

  @QuadColour: Thank you for this acknowledgement. --Pinchme123 (talk) 23:08, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

• Strongly support move/revert As I originally said, this page move/renaming has met with strong opposition. My personal views and opinions aside, making such a significant move is certainly worthy of discussion beforehand. While opinions could have gone either way, doing so on the talk page does not leave everyone in the dark; that is what they are here for. --SteveCof00 (talk) 09:21, 25 January 2020 (UTC)

• Comment - Original move prevents all pageview analysis before the move on 22 Jan 2020. Sammy D III (talk) 18:08, 26 January 2020 (UTC)
• Support move back to School bus. The move to 'School buses in North America' is clearly disputed by numerous others, and I agree that it was not a proper move to make absent prior discussion; per the BRD cycle it should be reverted and further actions to be taken can be discussed from there. –Erakura^(talk) 00:34, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

---

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Title of the article vs. the content of it

This brawl is about the title, the name, of this article only, correct? The article itself needs no change other than possibly being moved (after discussion)? Agreed?

In 2018 , after years of discussion, the international stuff was split off as School bus by country (I cleaned up a crumb last night). That was done and no longer matters. As a result of that split we now have two good school bus articles. Both are in place and will work after the revert.

Could we focus on the name itself and not act like a bunch of admins? Sammy D III (talk) 15:02, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

The article as it stands is about school buses in North America only, and as such does not present a suitably global view to hold the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC "School bus". It's fine if it remains where it is, but if it is to be moved back, it will need to be re-written completely to remove the North American bias. 212.135.65.247 (talk) 15:10, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

This article's content is about the invention, development, and implementation of a specific kind of bus called a "school bus." That these aspects of this specific item is overwhelmingly within in North America and the U.S. specifically does not turn an article about its invention, development, and implementation into a regional article. The article named "School bus" should cover those topics, which is exactly what are laid out in this article. At most the "fix" should be to include a very short paragraph noting the distinction between a "school bus" and "school transport," including the difference between a specific type of bus for the former and generic buses contracted to be used in the latter. --Pinchme123 (talk) 16:13, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

But the American vehicle known as a "school bus" is not the only meaning of "school bus", which is why it is correct that an article specifically discussing the devolepment of the North American school bus sits at a region-specific article title. "School bus" outside of North America is a general term for any dedicated bus service that takes children to/from school, and an overview of this should be the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC in order to eradicate this blindingly obvious regional bias that would otherwise ensue. 212.135.65.247 (talk) 16:19, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

any dedicated bus service. Sounds like the page you're looking for is School transport.

The overview of a specific kind of bus, used predominantly if not exclusively to transport students for educational activities, was invented and developed in North America and implemented in NA for nearly its entire history. There are now a few isolated instances of such specific vehicles being used elsewhere, but all of those - where there is a dedicated type of bus - trace back to North America in one way or another (this trace is especially easy to identify when the yellow color is used). This is why the basic concept of a "school bus" demands an overview that takes this North American perspective.

--Pinchme123 (talk) 16:41, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

Bullsh*t. School buses in the UK, among other countries are not "isolated instances". British schoolchildren make 370m journeys annually on school buses. Maybe school bus should be a WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT to school transport if this is just a language difference. This article is about the purely North American concept of a "school bus", not what the rest of the world considers to be a school bus. 212.135.65.247 (talk) 16:48, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

Incidentally, the first school bus was British. 212.135.65.247 (talk) 16:54, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

See also German WP to see the German school bus. 212.135.65.247 (talk) 16:58, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

I'm sorry it offends you (linked in case you remove the saltiness) to hear that the buses used in the one example you've ever presented in this discussion is only an example of regular buses used for school transportation services. But that's what it is. If the content of School bus by country is to be believed (and I have no reason to doubt it, given the article provided above by Slywriter corroborates this), there are no "school buses" in UK, but rather that school transportation falls on contracted public buses and charters (see aforementioned WP page and the linked article).

The so-called "first school bus" that you've linked to is in fact a regular bus that was used for school transport. The Wikipedia article you've provided even makes clear this individual built a general bus first and was asked to produce another - with nothing about it being different - for a school, so not relevant here. And I don't speak German. Care to provide an English language source for whatever I was supposed to "see also"?

--Pinchme123 (talk) 17:13, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

German article discusses the implementation of traditional school buses in one part of Germany. Then goes on to discuss the ubiquity of them in the USA and that they have been used in the US for their entire history. But again does not show that a traditional school bus is so common as to be a global term. Not does the article even discuss any countries beyond Germany and US Slywriter (talk) 17:49, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

The contracted and chartered school buses are still dedicated school buses. This is still a school bus. But you can't seem to see past your North American bias. 212.135.65.247 (talk) 09:05, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

No need to engage with you if you are going to continue to cast aspersions and accuse me of bias. Slywriter (talk) 13:23, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

Clearly not directed at you, per WP:THREAD. 212.135.65.247 (talk) 13:55, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

That's what I get for coming on here before coffee. Understood now, though still should avoid comments directly at editors.

I agree that the article should not be focused solely on NA. It should incorporate all school buses.

However I do not believe that extends to making the article about all vehicular modes of student transport, as that article already exists. School Bus still has a distinct meaning and evidence is slim on its language use beyond the dedicated yellow(mostly) bus. Slywriter (talk) 14:12, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

Number, what is your solution? How would you deal with the "school bus" links?

I can look at Google and get it. It does look like "ugly-American" assuming they own the world. You probably see it a lot and we never notice. But what do you gain other than some satisfaction in baiting us? Do you think that people can't find school buses in England?

Sort of a cheap shot: the UK section on School bus by country is lame. Search "school bus uk" and you start with the basic law, every council(?), funding, cutbacks, there is a "tonne" of stuff and not one reference in the article. Yes, there are school buses in the UK, but nobody wants to write about them.

We know your problem, what is your solution? (that is not supposed to sound snotty) Sammy D III (talk) 14:31, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

So, do I get to take issue with the aspersions, IP?

No NA bias here with me. Your unwillingness to even acknowledge the unambiguous difference between regular buses used to transport students and buses specifically designed and built for the purpose betrays your inability to help with this subject. So, for that matter, does your continued opposition to even the typical WP:BRD cycle.

--Pinchme123 (talk) 19:55, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

Does the name matter?

As long as "school bus" links and searches still come here does the actual name of the article matter?

"North America" is wrong. Mexico, who does not do this, is on North America too. Sammy D III (talk) 21:52, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

Regardless of Globalization concerns, School Bus needs to convey all of the information currently listed at the NA article. As in, what is a school bus? Why is it yellow? Why are they different from other buses and modes of transportation?

Whether individual countries/regions warrant forking the article... Not sure.

What i do know is that school bus being replaced by school bus by country article is not the answer. Slywriter (talk) 22:02, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

If all "school bus" links everywhere still came here they would still get the information, wouldn't they? Someone from the US would never notice a couple of extra words in the title and it would let the grammar people have their two words.

It is impossible to defend the grammar of "school bus". They are anywhere. Some people do think about different vehicles. The links that say "school bus" mean US/Canadian and lead here. The few others could go to "by country". Sammy D III (talk) 23:07, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

A redirect turns into a DAB down the road and all the readers looking for relevant information find none as they don't know what link to click Slywriter (talk) 23:27, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

I don't really understand but get the idea. Making new links wouldn't work, either. Well, I don't feel like a moron at all. Sorry to waste your time. Sammy D III (talk) 23:58, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

Lol. Let me try a different path.

• school bus should not be a redirect or DAB as the term has a relevant and fairly distinct meaning.
• school bus should discuss Yellow School Buses operated by Municipalities or Schools to get children from their homes to schools and back again
• school bus is not student transport. It's a distinct form of student transport
• School bus does not have to only cover the US and Canada but it should not include information from school bus by country that is about things other than a school bus, ie Mass Transit, walking, University Buses

and even if you disagree with all of that, using this as a redirect to school bus by country in its current form is not a reasonable outcome, as school bus by country is a large stub imho

Slywriter (talk) 00:15, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

All the "school bus" links are used to point to the US style ("Yellow") buses here, otherwise they wouldn't be linked. They are used in context, maybe in quotes, so you can't change them. Or the article name, it has to match them. That's a lock.

You can't complain about use from inside any article. The article specifically sends you to Yellow. If you don't want to go to Yellow you edit the article the link is in. That's a lock.

Search engines are a problem. The hit will show the words as US instead of general use ("by country" is immediately below, though). That could offend, I guess. I can't believe that people are really confused, though. When I looked earlier page views were Yellow 500+ and "by country" 50+. Just a hair under 10 times as many.

I thought there was a lot of good stuff at "by country" but it's a monster mess. They could spin Asia off. North America is messed up just now. Who'd a guessed? There is no India? They don't use the talk page. Sammy D III (talk) 02:06, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

I really only see two viable routes forward. First would be to make sure that, no matter what this article ends up being named (perhaps "Yellow school bus" to clarify its specificity?) the needed "School bus" redirect continues pointing at this article, since so many articles around WPs (English and the dozens of non-English) are looking for this article's content.

The second would be for someone to, after the rename, search all of WPs (including the non-WPs) and update those links to this article's new name, so that "School bus" could be populated by something else without sending people following the former links ending up in a confusing or unhelpful place. Someone somewhere noted something like 600 links to "School bus," though I don't know if this was English WP only, or included all of them. Eventually the popular search engines would catch up (though it may take a few days or weeks).

"...by country" isn't helpful for this subject. It really is poorly named as "School bus by country" and really probably should be named "School transport..." or "School busing..." But that's another conversation for that article's talk page.

I am still firmly in the camp of the first route. Whether people like it or not, the basic overview info about this specific kind of bus demands a NA focus. There's just no getting around that.

--Pinchme123 (talk) 02:58, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

You can not change the words "school bus" in the links. They are used in text, you change every article with the link. If the article name changes you might (will?) lose a zillion links instantly. You won't know to make new links that say "school bus" because you don't know that link exists. That's not the name of the article you are linking to. You lose any new links from the words "school bus" to the Yellow article. I think. Sammy D III (talk) 03:44, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

Regardless of Globalization concerns, School Bus needs to convey all of the information currently listed at the NA article.  As in, what is a school bus? Why is it yellow? Why are they different from other buses and modes of transportation?

That statement explains it best! Other types of buses are given their own article space as well to explain their design and function (this page, along with [[Coach (bus), Airport bus, Police bus, and Transit bus). Usage of school buses around the world (not an insignifignant thing) has been spun off on its own to allow this article to concentrate on the design and function of the vehicle. Why is it yellow? What makes it different? That is what someone decided to make an article about 16 years ago and things have been worked upon ever since. --SteveCof00 (talk) 20:10, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

Agree with Steve and Slywriter. Why is it yellow? Sammy D III (talk) 20:40, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

This article is about US type school buses.

The content of this article is about the design and operation of US and Canadian school buses only. Chapter 7 covers all non-US and Canadian buses.

The content of this article has no Globalization problem. The content of this article is about vehicles in two specific countries.

For school buses operated outside the US and Canada please see School bus by country. Sammy D III (talk) 17:16, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

I don't agree with the only. I agree that it is about a specific type of bus, best defined by the US/Canada Yellow School Bus.

The general article student transport handles various ways countries get students to and from schools.

What should be done to this article is generalizing what can be generalized and incorporating material from school bus by country (with or without eventually deleting that article) Slywriter (talk) 18:08, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

The article is excellent on its US and Canadian subject. You are talking about changing the article so it matchs the title. Sammy D III (talk) 18:23, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Various configurations of school buses are used worldwide; the most iconic examples are the yellow school buses of the United States and Canada. 

From the lead section of the article; I think this is at least as likely to be read as the hatnotes on top. This is also why School bus by country exists; it allows such content to be given its own room to grow. If it was included here, the article would have multiple main points (look into older versions of this article in its history...) --SteveCof00 (talk) 20:17, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

I also disagree with the "only." This article is an overview of a specific kind of bus, with nearly all of that overview requiring a focus on North America because that is where nearly all its history is. There are a few more recent examples of this type of bus used in other parts of the world, but the core of the bus's overview will necessarily focus on North America. If this article really is only about an N.A. bus, then its title really would need to be changed (and I would strongly disagree with this; links to this article are clearly looking for the content here, because for the concept of a "school bus" this is the vehicle people want to know about).

It might be worthwhile then, to address concerns about a lack of international inclusion, to reintroduce a small section noting very specific examples of this type of bus used outside North America (not examples of merely school transportation by general bus), with a hat that links to the School bus by country article. This section would be limited in scope in order to ensure the article remains focused on this specific type of bus and doesn't blow up with a bunch of less-relevant examples of general bus use, but should satisfy claims that the article is too-N.A. focused. That article should remain, but perhaps a discussion should occur there to retitle it "School busing by country" or something similar.

But to focus the hat and lead of the article on "Canada and the United States" I think is a problem, because these buses aren't just used in N.A. and, even though limited, those non-N.A. examples deserve to be accounted for. But those examples don't give justification to the cries of an almost-solely-N.A. focus so much that the name needs to be changed (which is what started the whole mess prior to the move).

tl;dr: the "school bus" covered in this article is a specific kind of school bus that serves as the basis for an overview article about that specific kind of bus. This kind of bus does see limited use outside of N.A., so maybe that should be re-accounted for in this article. And it won't be appropriate to retitle this article to highlight the N.A. focus because those limited examples do show that there's a broader dimension to the subject, but that the subject is ultimately grounded in N.A., meaning the focus in this general article is warranted.

--Pinchme123 (talk) 20:58, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

A theoretical discussion about two words offending a small minority of people should make every US/Canadian wrong. Sigh, ugly "American" roll again: Gov.UK says "and live at least: * 2 miles from the school if they’re under 8 * 3 miles from the school if they’re 8 or older". Are you kidding me? A seven-year-old has to walk two miles? I doubt many US 8th graders have walked more than a mile since the 1960s. You should be ashamed. Don't you love your children?

Of course you love your children. There is absolutely no way to compare the two systems. There is absolutely no way to compare the two systems. Yet you are trying to. 50% of our students are bused, what is the UK percentage? Figure in the distances. My state may move more children farther than your island yet you think it is correct for the two to be treated as if they were equal in the actual world.

I had a "Big Ben" alarm clock when I was young. They were very popular, a lot of "Americans" used them. I think I should move Big Ben to "Big Ben of London". That would make perfect sense to me. Perspective. Sammy D III (talk) 22:06, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Of course you love your children. There is absolutely no way to compare the two systems. There is absolutely no way to compare the two systems. Yet you are trying to. 50% of our students are bused, what is the UK percentage? Figure in the distances. My state may move more children farther than your island yet you think it is correct for the two to be treated as if they were equal in the actual world.

@Sammy D III: Uh... ok I'm not sure what's going on here, but I don't think this in any way reflects what I wrote above. I haven't once equated the buses/busing in N.A. and in England/U.K. In fact I've been pretty clear about the important distinction, as that distinction is central to my argument. I haven't once identified myself as living in UK, or anywhere really, so I don't know why you think I'm speaking about "[my] island." And finally, your final point about a Big Ben-styled alarm clock is so incredibly similar to my point that the page about a specialized "school bus" will have nearly all its info be about things in N.A. that I think you've completely misread my thoughts and are arguing with me out of a complete misunderstanding.

What I am saying is that, if we were to change the language of this specific page to be solely about N.A. school buses, then we would need to rename this article. And I do not think this is appropriate, so we should not be changing the language in this way. I don't know how to be any more clear about this.

--Pinchme123 (talk) 22:43, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Yea, we aren't hooking up at all. First and foremost, I don't care who you are. You don't want me to know, fine. I thought "Gov.UK says" set the stage".

In this section I have addressed the content of this article. You have been around long enough to know better than to say "to reintroduce a small section" and "limited in scope". Santa Claus will enforce that.

Please tell me that you have been to School bus by country and don't intend to create it. Please tell me that you have looked at the history of this article and the decade of discussions about splitting the non-US-specific stuff off.

The "Big Ben" stuff was meant to be bitterly ironic.

Crap, I have to go below. I still don't care who you are. Sammy D III (talk) 23:23, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Requested move 29 January 2020

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

• School bus → School buses in North America
• School bus (the redirect) → ?

-Re-requesting a move back to School buses in North America as the previous move had no consensus (hence the above RM), There was also some debate as to where the School bus redirect should point to, Thanks, –Davey2010^Talk 22:44, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

• Pinging all previous RM participants @SteveCof00, Sammy D III, Pinchme123, Slywriter, Axem Titanium, QuadColour, and Erakura: (Pings don't work for IPs so I've left messages for these, Thanks, –Davey2010^Talk 22:44, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose "in North America" as vague. I know it is utilized as a synonym of "US and Canada" but there are 37 territories in that part of continent. The only problem I see in this article is the lack of a worldwide vision, but other than that the article is focused on what is a school bus, unlike School bus by country, which merely describes buses by region. © Tbhotch^™ (en-3). 23:17, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose

• School bus has a distinct meaning. It is not a coach bus, a city bus, a charter bus, or any other kind of bus. When an English speaker hears School Bus, they think of a specific type of bus.
• Also, WP:Global is not a policy, it's a project with a goal that clearly states is about "remedying omissions", not about capturing top-level articles and turning them into re-direct farms.
• The previous split of the article should be re-considered as it's given a false impression this article is only about the US and Canada.
• The proposed title makes little to no sense. The article is primarily about US and to a lesser extent Canada. Due to a fork that split out other countries to own article.
• Nearly 600 internal enwiki redirects point to this page and they are expecting to read about Yellow School Buses Slywriter (talk) 23:22, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

• Strong oppose. Not only is this overwhelmingly WP:COMMONNAME, it is used every school day by half of the students in the US and their parents. Every person in the US has been taught "School bus" since we were two.

• Of course "school bus" is a job that some buses do all over the world. The language is clear, there are school buses in other places. But how many readers are interested in all the non-US/Canadian school buses all around the world combined? How many are looking for US/Canada design buses? The pageview statistics are gone now but it was about 10 to 1 a couple of weeks ago My memory only but I really did look.

• These US/Canadian developed design vehicles are the standard of the world. In the School bus by country UK section's five paragraphs four mention North America. Of seven pictures in the gallery two are US/Canada design (built?), the rest appear to be adaptions of UK transit buses.

• A few Wikipedia editors are trying to tell three hundred million people who use the name "School bus" what they should be saying. You can't read about a major part of .your culture, the safety of your children, without going thru an extra article to get there because it offends a few people who don't really use the words all that much anyway. There is no reason to change the WP:COMMONNAME of over 300 million people for the social agenda of a few. Sammy D III (talk) 23:27, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Like I've said the term is a worldwide one not just an American one. –Davey2010^Talk 01:17, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

• Question Where is the non-US-centric article that was living at "school bus" until the move was reverted? Was there one, or was it just a redirect that whole time? Axem Titanium (talk) 23:33, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Years ago editors decided to leave the US-centric as the main article and split others into "school bus by country". A fork that may have been valid on basis of size of page but now causes this drama about the top level nameSlywriter (talk) 23:38, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

An old version Sammy D III (talk) 23:41, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Rather than this Requested Move, why don't we just put the US/Canada specific stuff into the relevant section of School bus by country and leave the rest here as is? Seems like a simpler solution. Axem Titanium (talk) 23:42, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Every reader who is interested in Yellow (most of them) would have to go through a different layer and choose between every bus in the world. Where is US alphabetically? Everyone is looking for Yellow. You also lose a zillion links. Sammy D III (talk) 23:46, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Axem Titanium you're more than welcome to start an RFC on that as it's something A) I support and B) prefer over this move, Thanks, –Davey2010^Talk 01:17, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

Why start another discussion when we can have one here? No need to get hung up on process. Axem Titanium (talk) 01:47, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

Axem Titanium, the issue is, this entire article is relevant to the overview of what a school bus is. As I understand it, that's why, so many years ago, this article remained at this title and another was spun out of it. At that time editors agreed with the argument that a "school bus" is a specialized kind of bus for transporting schoolchildren, not any kind of bus that transports schoolchildren. --Pinchme123 (talk) 02:23, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

Google the following "school bus us", "school bus India", "school bus UK", "school bus Pakistan", "school bus China". The images and top results are clear what the English vernacular sees as a "school bus". Slywriter (talk) 02:33, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

Strong Oppose Agree with the WP:COMMONNAME convention. Along with numerous technical issues than can be caused by a move (this page is linked to over 30 Wikipedias in different languages...), "School bus" is also a more concise and natural title (WP:NAMINGCRITERIA); it also comes across as far more neutral.

• "School buses in North America" or "School Bus (North America)" is appropriate if there is another regional school bus article that has been written (none yet).
• Current title matches Coach (bus), Transit bus, Police bus, and Party bus in naming (among others)
• WP:GLOBAL is indeed about perspectives and the prevalence of knowledge from editors. However, this does not warrant major reconstruction of articles; along with being translated in over 30 languages (to different extents), this article has been split into School bus by country and Student transport to include related content from around the world. The split also allows "School bus" to focus more closely on vehicle design and function. Is there a slanted perspective? Possibly. However, this article is part of a larger picture and is well-linked to ensure it is not orphaned.

Keeping the article here is the simplest title and the best course for further developing this article (and several others) in the future. --SteveCof00 (talk) 09:54, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Your closing comment is inappropriate and a lie. The issue is no one has provided any evidence to support the move beyond a Globalization concern that has not been backed up, while volumes of evidence over the last 2 weeks were provided for why it should remain across numerous boards and threads. Slywriter (talk) 12:43, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

Your comment absolutely proves my point above. –Davey2010^Talk 13:37, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

Again, all I see is evidence of your disrespect for your fellow editors. It is not other editors fault that the argument for the move can be summed up as WP:IDONTLIKEIT wrapped up in a misinterpretation of WP:global. No evidence was provided to show that "school bus" is widely used in the English language to mean anything other than a dedicated transport with specific features. Slywriter (talk) 14:06, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

What is a 'school bus'?

I've been trying to keep track of this talk page but there's far too many people to reply to. I have noticed a repeated point come up over and over again. What exactly is a 'school bus'? This seems like quite a pivotal point in this debate yet I have seen almost no evidence to support any viewpoints. The point that I have surmised from the US perspective is that in the opinion of those users, a 'school bus' is a vehicle specifically designed or adapted for the purpose of carrying children to and from school. The non-US perspective seems to be that a school bus is any vehicle used for that purpose. So which is it? I'll try to run through some sources on what the definition is:

• Cambridge Dictionary [1] (UK)- "a bus for taking children to and from school"
• Collins Dictionary [2] (UK)- "A school bus is a special bus which takes children to and from school."
• Merriam-Webster [3] (US)- "a vehicle used for transporting children to or from school or on activities connected with school"
• American Heritage Dictionary [4] (US)- "A publicly or privately owned vehicle that is used for taking schoolchildren to and from school or school-related activities."
• Random House Unabridged Dictionary [5] (US)- "a vehicle used to transport students to and from school or used for other related purposes."

My opinion on the consensus of these sources is that any bus can be a school bus if it is used for the purpose of transporting school children. Feel free to find your own sources or draw your own conclusions from this data, but I think this is pretty overwhelming in favour of one viewpoint. -QuadColour (talk) 23:53, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Pinging @Slywriter, Pinchme123, and Sammy D III:, in case you would like to weigh in with your opinion - QuadColour (talk) 00:04, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

Your petty snit may directly affect 300+ million people who love their children. I was straight with you. Please feel free to ping me any time after hell freezes over, you selfish little jerk. Sammy D III (talk) 00:15, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

Wow. There is no need for name calling. Apologies if I upset you by pinging you but I thought you might be interested in responding to my points. Apparently that is not the case. - QuadColour (talk) 00:58, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

@QuadColour:

• I have said repeatedly what a school bus is. It's a specific type of student transport best exemplified by the US Yellow School bus. An identity made iconic and is replicated in the various other language articles. Just look at the picture used in every article on other language wikis.
• When an English speaker types in school bus, they are expecting to get information about a mode of transport that is specifically for children, has certain safety features, identifying marks, and generally has traffic law implications to vehicles in their vicinity. Even the color school bus yellow has its own article because of the importance that color has.
• 600 enwiki redirects are looking for this type of school bus. When articles say school bus whether because a song mentions them, a company manufactures them, or Municipalities use them they are looking for this type of bus.
• The fork of school bus by country was a well meaning but misguided fork. The sections of that article that speak to the iconic school bus mentioned here being used in other countries should be part of this article, not there. And student transport deals with the various other ways students get to school.
• And WP:global is a project not a policy. It's specific aim is inclusion of additional information, not the hijacking of a top level article for the sake of Globalization. Slywriter (talk) 00:50, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

I feel like your points here (except the 600 redirects, there's no getting around that AFAIK) are based around your opinions as a US reader. Again it comes back to this idea that a school bus does not have to be specifically adapted to be a school bus. Your points would be perfectly valid (in my opinion) if this article was called 'Yellow School Bus' or similar. But since it isn't, ignoring the other types of school bus seems like a strange decision. - QuadColour (talk) 01:10, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

If your only refute is viewpoint then we have nothing further to discuss. I am tired of feeling the need to defend my nationality instead of the topic of the article Slywriter (talk) 01:20, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

"a vehicle used for transporting children to or from school or on activities connected with school" would apply to the UK (and maybe the US not sure) but as an overall one I'd say the first one. –Davey2010^Talk 01:21, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

(ec)QuadColor and Davey2010 The distinction I will point out here is "a vehicle/bus used...," not "any vehicle/bus used..." These definitions fit perfectly fine with the argument I and Slywriter seem to have been making (apologies if I have your position wrong, Slywriter), which is that a school bus is a specific kind of bus. It's a definitional turn - not captured well in short dictionary definitions (a reason why dictionaries are not considered particularly useful sources in academic literature, by the way) - that is crucial to this subject.

You speak of other types of school buses, but the supposed types you've identified are merely non-specialized buses used for school transport.

--Pinchme123 (talk) 02:18, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

To answer the initial question of this thread, there is an answer outside of the dictionary (one I used as a source when writing the wording of the lead section). http://www.nasdpts.org/ncstonline/Documents/NCST%202015%20Specifications%20and%20Procedures%2011.1.16.pdf (scroll down to page 342 for the answer) has an exact definition of a yellow school bus and the specifications behind its design and operation; the original National Congress on School Transportation was the 1939 conference that led to the creation of school bus yellow. Can any bus be a school bus if it is transporting children? That answer is yes, but the buses for the purposes of this article (defined on the link I included) are used to only transport children, which is why they have several design features and are allowed traffic priority. Instead of saying no to the question, school bus by country and student transport address the question from a wider perspective. However, even outside North America, buses used for student transport may be set aside for school use and lettered "School bus" (in a language that is not English) --SteveCof00 (talk) 08:18, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

New oldest school bus.

A purpose-built school bus from 1919 was recently found in Oregon. This page listed a bus from 1927 as the oldest.

What is the importance of the horizontal black lines on the exterior of all school buses?

What is the importance of the horizontal black lines on the exterior of all school buses? 2604:3D08:9580:5400:7122:3218:8A29:5CB7 (talk) 18:27, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

Making this article less about north american school buses and more about school buses in general

despite the introduction talking about school buses around the world there is only a small section about that NotOrrio (talk) 22:44, 30 November 2022 (UTC)

This article has a header link leading directly into the much larger School buses by country article (also linked in the lead section text). The article goes to describe the design of vehicle described in lead section (using legitimate sources...the industry and government bodies that oversee their specifications). -SteveCof00 (talk) 09:48, 27 May 2023 (UTC)