Talk:Collier Road

Collier Road has been listed as one of the Engineering and technology good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: July 29, 2021. (Reviewed version).

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Collier Link

The information on Collier Link in the Route Description is confusing and could benefit from a rewrite. The information in the RJL is easier to understand, but is not in accordance with that shown in Google Maps. Downsize43 (talk) 09:29, 2 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, Collier Link is not mentioned in the Route Description when it should be. It is the bit about it in the History that is confusing. Downsize43 (talk) 05:40, 3 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Here is a ref for Collier Link. It describes the link as extending from Wright Street to Grey Street. Downsize43 (talk) 02:48, 10 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

https://www.perthnow.com.au/community-news/eastern-reporter/city-of-bayswater-resolves-issues-around-road-name-changes-near-collier-rd-c-822570

@Steelkamp: I have never done a GA review, but was tempted to have a go at this one. Having read it several times I believe it needs some rearrangement as indicated above before it is ready. If no other reviewer picks it up, and you make a few changes, I will put my name down for it. Cheers. Downsize43 (talk) 02:23, 11 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Downsize43: As far as I can tell, google maps is wrong, in that it does not have collier link on it. Main Road's Road Information Mapping System shows that what was in the article is correct. I have clarified some parts of the article now and added Collier Link information to the route description. Steelkamp (talk) 08:02, 22 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Steelkamp: Looking good now. Hoping to have some time to start a review on the weekend. Couldn’t make much sense of the Main Roads system on my iPad. Cheers. Downsize43 (talk) 23:18, 22 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Collier Road/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Downsize43 (talk · contribs) 01:22, 24 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Rate	Attribute	Review Comment
1. Well-written:
	1a. the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct.	Try to avoid starting a sentence with a numeric. OK
	1b. it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.	Lead section is too short for an article of this size. It should include a summary of the History section. OK Wikilinks should appear only once in the text, for the first occurrence of each item.(I believe one dup of each of these links is OK in Infobox and RJL) OK Distances shown in the Route description are mostly not synchronous with those in the RJL. OK
2. Verifiable with no original research:
	2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline.	Note: Tests done on an iPad in Desktop view. Ref 1 - expect a map showing length - nothing is displayed. OK Ref 2 - expect a map showing route - can search for road but unable to display map. For an online ref that needs further operations to display the data required by the user it is good practice to provide some guidance. For a simple example see Ref 3 of Weetah, Tasmania. OK Ref 3 - unable to check book source. OK Ref 4 - expect map of Old Collier Road - can search for road but can only display an allotment. See Comment re ref 2 OK Ref 5 - expect re Collier Road extension - only page 1 of a 4 page document is displayed, with no ref to Collier Road. This is a known problem with archived PDFs on iPads. Ref 6 - expect re NorthLink project - server not found. OK Ref 7 - expect re Tonkin Hwy intersection upgrade - server not found. OK Ref 8, 9, 10 - expect re third most congested - OK Ref 11, 12 - expect re oppose name change - 11 OK, 12 shows only heading. OK - Ref 12 removed Ref 13, 14 - expect re agree to retain old name - OK Now 12, 13 Ref 15, 16 - expect re future plans - 15 OK, 16 “This Connection is not private”. Now 14, 15 - both OK Ref 17, 18 - expect re LGAs - 17 shows electoral wards (not relevant), 18 shows map of LGAs associated with Collier Road - OK Old 17 gone.
	2b. reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose).	Unable to review source for most History refs. WP:AGF
	2c. it contains no original research.	WP:AGF
	2d. it contains no copyright violations or plagiarism.	WP:AGF
3. Broad in its coverage:
	3a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic.	OK
	3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).	OK
	4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.	OK
	5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.	OK
6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:
	6a. media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content.	OK
	6b. media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.	The diagram in the History section should be referenced in the text. Agree to disagree OK
	7. Overall assessment.	As good as can be got with the online refs used

Author responses

References

Opening reference 1 on desktop shows a directions map between the two ends of the road, and a sidebar which says the distance is 4.7 km. Maybe it doesn't work on ipad because it opens the google maps app, and doesn't show the route.
- Works OK on PC. Google maps created using the “Share or imbed map” menu item do display OK on iPad. Was this created some other way?
  - I created it by pressing "directions", and then selecting the road's two termini, and then copying the link. Steelkamp (talk) 14:22, 26 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    - @Steelkamp: I don’t understand why it makes a difference, but if you use the “Share or imbed map” menu selection to copy the link it gives one that works on iPad. Downsize43 (talk) 21:38, 28 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      - Does it work now? Steelkamp (talk) 02:38, 29 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
        Yes. Downsize43 (talk) 07:41, 29 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

For reference 2, click the boxes next to "speed data" and "speed limit", and zoom into the road.
- Tried on PC and iPad. On both the zoom does not lead to anything useful.
  - On both PC and iPad “zoom” does not lead to the road which is the result of a search. Please provide more details to cover the process of getting to the target road on the map.
    - I don't use the search function. I zoom and pan into Perth, and Collier Road. This does require knowledge of where Collier Road is within Perth. Steelkamp (talk) 14:22, 26 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      - Your method is unsuitable for the average reader, and tends not to give a useful result on mobile devices. I would prefer simple instructions such as suggested for reference 4 below. Downsize43 (talk) 21:31, 26 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
        If it is possible to zoom in on the road using the search function, I can't figure out how to.
        Using the zoom and pan method (with or without a prior search) takes about 10 minutes on my iPad, on the rare occasion when it doesn’t crash first. BTW, when I get there it shows the entire length in the 60 kph colour. I will try it on a PC later. Downsize43 (talk) 10:01, 27 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
        On a fast PC, with a user who knows where to look for Collier Road, it still takes a huge number of zoom and pan actions to get there. I cannot believe that the search function does not give a faster way to the needed result. Downsize43 (talk) 07:31, 28 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
        Are you zooming first then panning? Because that would be a lot slower than panning as you zoom. Steelkamp (talk) 07:35, 28 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- I pan as I zoom to try and keep the target area in the centre of the screen. Downsize43 (talk) 08:57, 28 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  - Takes me probably 30 seconds. I think that is acceptable. Steelkamp (talk) 14:11, 28 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

For book sources, we can't really do anything about it. I would write in a direct quote from the book in wikipedia, but that would be a copyright violation. GA reviewers in the past have assumed good faith.
For reference 4, zoom into collier road, click the icon on the top-right corner of the page, then click "buy aerial photos". You can then select aerial imagery from various years. *Clicking imagery prior to 1985 shows the old alignment of Collier Road.
- Tried on PC and iPad. Still no joy.
  - On iPad a row of icons are displayed. The one for aerial photos, when found, goes no further. On PC no icons are shown.
    - I find your guidance confusing, especially use of the term “zoom”. Suggest the following: “Enter Collier Road, Search, select first row, click camera icon, scroll down to 1983 row, select.”

This works on iPad. On a PC it is more complex, and different depending on whether or not it is the first use of the Landgate software on that PC.

The camera icon only appears there when you have use it before. The top right icon can be used to view it for the first time, so thats what my instructions say. I have slightly change the instructions to getting to Collier Road. Steelkamp (talk) 14:22, 26 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- The top right icon (menu) does not appear on mobile devices, just a row of other icons including the camera. Looks like separate guidance is required for mobile. Downsize43 (talk) 21:31, 26 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Collier Road is on page 3 of reference 5. Don't know why you can't see it.
Changed url status for reference 6 and 7 from live to dead. Reference can be viewed at archive.
I removed reference 12. I think before the archive, there was a video there, but the video doesn't work on the archive.
Reference 16 (now 15) is dead anyway. I changed url status from live to dead. Reference can be viewed at archive.
I've removed reference 17 as reference 18 (now 16) shows everything that is needed.

– Steelkamp (talk) 08:43, 24 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Diagram

I disagree that the diagram needs to be referenced in text. It would be awkward to mention the diagram there anyway. I have fixed everything else. Steelkamp (talk) 09:31, 24 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]