Talk:Empire of Vietnam

Not really neutral from the stub i red

if focuses on the "positive role" of the japanese occupant... well this is not NPOV. Paris By Night 16:02, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

NPOV and context

I agree that the tone doesn't seem neutral. Also the entire article lacks context. It should either be a link from a broader article about Viet Nam's transition from a Colony to an independent country, or Vichy France, or the Viet Minh's rise to power, or else the article itself should be expanded. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.177.1.127 (talk) 14:21, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

I agree. Possibly this article has been cribbed from an old Japanese text book. It doesn't seem to have been written by a native English speaker. For example, it refers to the "French State" when the standard English phrase is "Vichy France".Yaris678 (talk) 13:20, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

"French State" (as opposed to the "French Republic") was the official name of "Vichy France", so using in a formal context makes sense --Gilles Tran (talk) 14:37, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

I know "État français" was the official name. All I am saying is that no one calls it the "French state" in English. This indicates to me that the article was written by someone unfamiliar with the English language. Yaris678 (talk) 20:35, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Empire

Was it really an "empire"?--CafeDelKevin (talk) 02:46, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

spelling and grammar

This article was full of spelling and grammar errors. I mean really, one of the errors was "Vietnemise," which couldn't be that damn hard to type since your writing an article about the Vietnamese! Well I fixed several of these errors, but I only skimmed through them. If anyone wants to do a more thorough sweep of this article, please do so.--CafeDelKevin (talk) 02:51, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

please see WP:ENGVAR. It is incorrect to change the spelling used in an article from British spelling to American spelling unless there is a good reason to do so. British spelling is not incorrect; it is just unfamiliar to you.

The word that you changed was "Vietnamise" (spelled "Vietnamize" in US spelling), which in this context means to make more Vietnamese. In the sentence in the article, changing the word to "Vietnamese" doesn't make any sense.

The original sentence was:

"Education minister Hoang Xuan Han strove hard to Vietnamise public secondary education."

In other words, he worked to make public education more Vietnamese.

You changed it to:

"Education minister Hoang Xuan Han strove hard to Vietnamese public secondary education."

What was he working hard to do? There is a verb missing here.

Ground Zero | t 03:34, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Oh, sorry, I thought it was a typo.--CafeDelKevin (talk) 04:32, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

帝國越南

The name appeared on the document in Chinese using Chinese grammar (越南帝國, Việt-Nam Đế-quốc), Chữ Nôm at this point hadn't been used for decades being fully replaced with Latin script.

Hello @Lachy70:,

First (1st) of all I'm a major fan of your work over at the Wikimedia Commons and comparison of different texts from the Chinese cultural sphere, but speaking of Chinese. While I have seen Classical Chinese used during this period (the Ministry of Rites and Labour still used Classical Chinese as the main language, while the rest had already switched over to Vernacular Chinese using Latin script) and Classical Chinese was still used on document headers and engraving new seals of the Empire of Vietnam, I have never seen any Chữ Nôm being used during this period. In fact in the entire history of the Nguyễn Dynasty I have only seen Chữ Nôm being used during the Gia Long period. The French did use Chữ Nôm in Hanoi and on a number of civil registration documents in Annam and Tonkin, but the Nguyễn Dynasty itself exclusively used either Classical Chinese, French, and / or Romanised Vietnamese.

In the year Bảo Đại 20 (twenty) I haven't seen any Chữ Nôm documents and on official documents the Empire of Vietnam used a Chinese name (Việt-Nam Đế-quốc) while the Vietnamese name (Đế-quốc Việt-Nam) appeared to have been only used in Latin script and informally (like when referring to the country in newspapers), but the government always formally used its Chinese name. --Donald Trung (talk) 21:40, 24 September 2022 (UTC)

Yes, I agree with this, I'll remove the chữ Nôm, I assumed that the formatting of documents that were used when the French in control would be the same in the Empire of Vietnam. I should've looked at documents at the time. I think the name in the paragraph should be Đế quốc Việt Nam since that is what the Vietnamese article name is too. While in the infobox, it should be Việt-nam Đế-quốc.

1938 Vietnamese Birth Certificate in Nôm

Lachy70 (talk) 23:19, 24 September 2022 (UTC)

@Lachy70: I agree with those changes. As for civil documents from the Empire of Vietnam, I actually also wonder if Chữ Nôm was used in 1945, unfortunately I've never seen a 1945 birth certificate, marriage certificate, death certificate, divorce certificate, Etc. from the Empire of Vietnam. But throughout Annam & Tonkin Chữ Nôm was used prior to 1945 so it would make sense that the Empire of Vietnam would continue using the old format until they changed the documents (as some ministries still refer to the Kim cabinet as "the government of the Southern Dynasty" despite the name change), unfortunately we don't have any images of those documents to reference. :-( --Donald Trung (talk) 23:35, 24 September 2022 (UTC)