Talk:Keshi (demon)

Keshi (demon) has been listed as one of the Philosophy and religion good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: June 20, 2013. (Reviewed version).

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A fact from Keshi (demon) appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 4 May 2010 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that the legend of Krishna killing the horse demon Keshi (pictured) may have its origins in the tale of Greek hero Heracles slaying the horses of Diomedes?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2010/May.

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Comments

The article quotes "Let us keep the black asura Keśin, born in the reed clump, snout-mouthed and all other harmful creatures, away from her genitals and her loins". Who is being referred here as "her"? That needs to be clarified.

Clarified. --Redtigerxyz ^Talk 07:37, 8 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't also understand what Phyllis Granoff means by "childhood diseases". No access to the cited reference. But can it be clarified a bit more?

Phyllis talks about generic "childhood diseases". Nothing in specific. She compares Keshi to Putana, who also associated with diseases in texts. Keshi in Atharveda and Keshi attacks a child god like Putana: are two main arguments of her hypothesis. In the future, for completeness, I will incoporate Représentations anciennes de Krsna luttant contre le cheval Keśin sur des haltères : l'avatāra de Visnu et le dieu du Mahābhārata by Charlotte Schmid. --Redtigerxyz ^Talk 07:37, 8 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The Metropolitan Museum of Art bite is also not clear. Does the museum compare Keshi episode with that of Heracles or does it state as a fact that its being compared by other scholars? If its later, then its fine. But then we should use the original scholar as reference. And if not, are this museum's opinion reliable? §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {T/C} 07:21, 6 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The writeup (2008) does not attribute it to a specific scholar, but other scholars including Schmid mention the Hercules connection. The writeup is published in the museum journal too. --Redtigerxyz ^Talk 07:37, 8 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Okay! No issue on Museum's bit. But i am sure, keeping all the diplomatic confusing language aside, its possible to clarify all this confusion of Keshi and Putana and Atharvaved; even if that would mean stepping down by your usual standards of language. (Take that as a compliment on your usual good writing skills.) I guess maybe you know something in context thats not written here but its in your mind and hence you are not finding this confusing. You can try and explain me here. Or else we will get some other editor to see if only i am dumb. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {T/C} 18:41, 10 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Atharvaveda says Keshi attacks the unborn -> miscarriage. Putana, Keshi are demons sent by Kamsa to kill child god Krishna. Putana like Keshi in other texts is related to childhood diseases or attacking children or the fetus as diseases. So both represent childhood diseases or miscarriage. If it is now clear to you, please make changes in the article. Thanks. Redtigerxyz ^Talk 03:13, 11 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I have tried clarifying it now. Hope you are okay with it. I basically wasn’t understand who "her" in that quote was. I now get that woman in general are being discussed here. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {T/C} 18:55, 13 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Her is the female fetus. The earlier line uses "unborn" to explain it. Redtigerxyz ^Talk 05:59, 15 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Keshi (demon)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Dharmadhyaksha (talk · contribs) 04:19, 17 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Have reviewed and commented before start of this official review on article's talk page and the issues have been cleared. But will go through the checklist now and some minor comments.

Ref 10's format is messed up. Please mend that.
ISBN missing for Krishna: the Beautiful Legend of God
ISBN missing for Krsna: Lord or Avatara?: The Relationship Between Krsna and Visnu
ISBN missing for Studies in Hindu and Buddhist art
ISBN missing for Essays In Jaina Philosophy And Religion
Uuuhh.... ISBN is missing on all books.
Many books also have previews available. Please add those urls in citations.

Isbn added. Ref 10 formatted. Google books previews may differ from the copy I referenced in terms of pages/edition so don't want to link. In some cases, no preview. Wilson Google book is linked as it is used from google books. --Redtigerxyz ^Talk 17:49, 19 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Good! Passing it now. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {T/C} 04:32, 20 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Checklist

It is reasonably well written.
a (prose):

b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
It is factually accurate and verifiable.
a (references):

b (citations to reliable sources):

c (OR):
It is broad in its coverage.
a (major aspects):

b (focused):
It follows the neutral point of view policy.
Fair representation without bias:
It is stable.
No edit wars, etc.:
It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales):

b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall:
Pass/Fail:

Passed! Congratulations Redtigerxyz. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {T/C} 04:32, 20 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Eurocentrism

The following comment reeks of Euro Centrism:

" Theories suggested about Keshi's origins range from him being a demon of childhood diseases to being inspired by the Greek Herculean labour of slaying the horses of Diomedes."

There is no citation to this comment, or proof that shows that the Indian legend was inspired by the Greek legend. Without that proof, the possibility of inspiration is 50% (ie there are as much chances for the Greek legend to be inspired by the Indian legend) or a possibility that it is not related at all. Given that, the narrowest route is followed to arrive at the above conclusion, which is obviously due to EuroCentrism!!!

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