Talk:Kris Kristofferson

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September 29 to October 5, 2024

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Lyme Disease - revisited

Hello. I would like to discuss some potential sources we can use for Kristofferson's Lyme disease diagnosis. The first few sources I came across – Alzheimer's Weekly, The Lyme Times, MSN, Canadian Lyme Disease Foundation, Taste of Country and Twin Cities PBS – all mention that his Alzheimer's disease misdiagnosis and memory loss was actually caused by Lyme disease. If there are any other reliable medical sources we can find as per WP:MEDRS, please let me know here. Thanks, Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 00:41, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@ScienceFlyer: The main Lyme disease article states that Lyme disease can cause memory problems, so I dont think we need another source for that claim in this article. Sjones23 (talk · contribs) just change (from the earlier reverted edit) "which can cause neurological deficits and “brain fog”" to state "which can cause memory problems”. Second we do not need MEDRS to say a celebrity was diagnosed with something, that is absurd. Thanks! Jtbobwaysf (talk) 01:10, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Jtbobwaysf @Sjones23 Has anything changed since last year when I looked into it and traced the origin of the claims that have been repeated in the media? Kristofferson and his wife were convinced by a "functional medicine" doctor to ignore a negative test. David Gorski's post is more reliable than Kristofferson and his doctor, per WP:PARITY.

@Jtbobwaysf I think the Lyme disease article's characterization in the lead was misleading, so I edited it. Regardless, since Kristofferson's test ruled out Lyme disease, it's irrelevant either way. Both Jenny McCarthy's claim of vaccines causing her son's autism and Kristofferson's claim of Lyme disease causing his memory loss are contradicted by evidence. Wikipedia cannot legitimize discredited claims. ScienceFlyer (talk) 02:18, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

For reference, the previous Lyme disease discussions can be found in this archive. Also, do you guys think we should consider removing the memory loss mention altogether per WP:BLP, bring it up on WP:BLP/N for further opinions, or are those unneeded at this point? Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 02:27, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We can always attribute the medical claims as they are in the sources, that is always the preferred approach. If RS cover it then we can include it. Calling MEDRS on this is absurd. My comment was more about the MEDRS claim than if it has due weight for the lead. If you dont think its due in the lead then put it in the body. If the two of them make these claims and they are covered in the RS, then we can include them, you WP:OR about if they are right or wrong in their self-diagnosis has no bearing here. Jtbobwaysf (talk) 03:42, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've alerted the WP:BLP noticeboard to this matter. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 06:25, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Sjones23 As discussed previously, Kristofferson's Lyme disease diagnosis was not "confirmed via WP:RS". I have added a fact check. ScienceFlyer (talk) 16:26, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm, is Gorski's criticism of Kristofferson's diagnosis not mentioned in the news coverage? Also, while I removed the Lyme disease paragraph altogether for now as per the relevant policies at WP:BLP, Wikipedia's role is to report what reliable sources (such as Rolling Stone, Global, MSN, Taste of Country, PBS, etc.) say about the diagnosis, not evaluate the actual health claims, so unless these sources post a retraction, we should keep the information that is sourced to them. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 18:15, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Just worth noting that what we call reliable sources are not such. None of them are WP:MEDRS sources that could be used for medical claims such as a disputed diagnosis. KoA (talk) 19:21, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Respectfulinsolence.com is a blog? Certainly we are not going to be using blogs to anchor BLP text that refers to quackery. Far off from an RS on a BLP. Jtbobwaysf (talk) 06:47, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Zaereth (talk · contribs) has recently raised some concerns regarding WP:NPOV, WP:DUE and how we should word the diagnosis here. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 01:08, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

See Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard#Kris_Kristofferson thanks! Jtbobwaysf (talk) 07:16, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Section break

Given the WP:NPOV concerns raised at the BLPN discussion and the fact that using ScienceBlogs can be a bit problematic for this BLP, we could reword the sentence regarding his Lyme disease diagnosis as something like this:

Kristofferson disclosed to Rolling Stone in June 2016 that he had been diagnosed with Lyme disease.

Any other ideas? Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 07:02, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Here fromt he BLP posting. Merely being diagnosed with Lyme disease isn't exactly something that would go into a Wikipedia article from a WP:DUE perspective. We also can't avoid that it's the chronic lyme disease claim that's been made, and since Kristofferson is the one making the claim, there a reasonable doubt to the authenticity of that diagnosis with the quackery stuff mentioned above. WP:BLPSPS has guidance on that, and none of the sources being discussed here are reliable sources either in terms of WP:MEDRS for a medical diagnosis.

As for ScienceBlogs, there's nothing really problematic. We just can't use it in Wikipedia's voice as a self-published source, so it would just need attribution if it was used. At this point though, we're probably not in WP:DUE territory for mentioning Lyme unless more WP:FRINGE stuff occurs on the subject. KoA (talk) 20:40, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm, I wonder. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 05:36, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Taking the comments from the now-archived BLPN discussion along with WP:BLPRESTORE, WP:V and WP:N into consideration, I suggest we should just leave out the Lyme disease issue altogether unless we can come up with a consensus to re-include the material as necessary. Thoughts? Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 07:13, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm ok to include it. I just would be careful about the wikivoice issue. If the article subject has made statements about this matter and it has received coverage in RS, we certainly can include it. Jtbobwaysf (talk) 07:19, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Jtbobwaysf: Got it. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 22:30, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Instruments in infobox

As per the relevant guidelines on Template:Infobox musical artist#Instrument, secondary instruments are meant to be brought up in the article rather than the infobox. Given that, is it relevant to include harmonica in the infobox or within the article itself? Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 02:15, 12 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No response, so I have removed harmonica from the infobox for now. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 23:45, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Potential revamp?

In light of the subject's recent passing, I'm thinking we should do a massive revamp of this article so we can get it up to GA or FA status at some point in the future, using other articles like Hank Williams (a GA), Patsy Cline (a GA) or Elvis Presley (an FA) as models. Eventually, I plan to feature it on the main page as a TFA for the subject's birthday, which is June 22.

For example, we should create a "Life and career" section which should look something like this:

1936–1961: early years
1961–1965: military service
1965–1972: early music and film career
1972–1990: commercial peak
1990–2021: Highwaymen and later years
2021–2024: retirement and death

I would also recommend moving some parts of the personal life section (such as his marriages, health problems such as drug addictions, etc.) to the "Life and career" section as outlined above.

Any other thoughts or suggestions on this? Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 22:42, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

sounds great to me, please proceed. Jtbobwaysf (talk) 08:18, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've started a work-in-progress draft here. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 04:48, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD

The plans above are fine, but tomorrow is the last day to source his article enough to appear among the recent deaths, WP:ITNN nomination open, but facts tagged for needing citations. -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:51, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]