Talk:Modern (political party)

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Elections - Regional assemblies 2018

Regional assemblies 2018 News: TVP: PiS triumphs in Polish local elections 21.10.2018

An exit poll indicates that Poland’s conservative Law and Justice (PiS) party gained the most votes in Sunday’s local government elections, public broadcaster TVP reported.
- In Poland’s most important electoral test since Law and Justice came to power in the parliamentary elections of late 2015, the party on Sunday gained 32.3 percent of the vote in elections to regional assemblies, according to an exit poll.
- The Civic Coalition, an alliance between the Civic Platform (PO) and Nowoczesna (Modern) parties, came second with 24.7 percent of the regional assemblies vote, the poll found.
- The Polish People's Party (PSL), which is strong in rural areas, came third on 16.6 percent, according to the survey by pollster Ipsos.
- Turnout at 5pm on Sunday stood at 41.65 percent, officials said.

I would like to add this info to the section Regional assemblies 2018 - ok? --0e7s (talk) 19:42, 22 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Are you crazy?

In no way that "Modern" is a Center-legt party. 2A02:3030:805:D90B:1:0:EDEA:A8C0 (talk) 15:29, 21 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

That's what the sources say. You don't live in Poland so your view might be outdated - the second source does say the party was initially centre-right but then became centre-left. Brat Forelli (talk) 15:35, 21 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

You also seem to have posted this as a source: [1]. All this says is "Modern (Nowoczesna) is a liberal party that was created in 2015 by former World Bank economist Ryszard Petru, who led it into parliament later that year. Modern supports both liberal economic and social policies, but is now very much the junior partner in its coalition with PO."

The words "centrist" or "centre" are not mentioned in regards to the Nowoczesna party at all. This is in stark contrast to the current two sources, which do explicitly call the party centre-left. I am afraid you do not have a case to make here. Brat Forelli (talk) 15:48, 21 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

These two sources you claim, one is an unavailable oko.press article and the other is of questionable accuracy, and while yes my first source didn't explicitly state the party's position as "centrist" it's description would lead one to conclude it. Also the "mythical 2021 centre-left party program" never existed, there is no mention of it in polish media either. Also the current party program listed on the party's website is hardly different than the one from 2015, for the exception of mentioning the "bad things" that the PiS has done during their 8 year rule, which ".Nowoczesna" wants to scrap. Also assuming that I'm misinformed, just from my German IP alone is laughable, I may live in Germany for the most months of the year, but I also hold polish citizenship and I am going to vote in this year's election as an diaspora voter. This party is basically a polish version of the german "FDP", with a few regional quirks.

https://nowoczesna.org/program/ 2A02:3030:805:D90B:1:0:EDEA:A8C0 (talk) 20:18, 21 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

> one is an unavailable oko.press article

It's not an article, it's a short description of the party that calls it centre-left. I also added an archive link to it just now, in case the live link it's not available to you.

> and the other is of questionable accuracy,

Do you mean that dziennik.pl of all sources is questionable? What makes you think so?

> and while yes my first source didn't explicitly state the party's position as "centrist" it's description would lead one to conclude it.

This is against Wikipedia rules, namely Wikipedia:No original research. We are supposed to reflect our sources rather than argue for something and use sources to indirectly prove it.

> Also the current party program listed on the party's website

Using party program here has two problems. The first is that in the program, the party does not state its political alignment directly. The second problem is that it is a self-published source, which makes it a questionable source as per Wikipedia's rules.

> Also assuming that I'm misinformed, just from my German IP alone is laughable

I'm sorry if this came off as a personal attack. But I do have two sources in Polish that explicitly call it centre-left. Meanwhile you just point me to links that describe the party's policies and you say something like "clearly, the party is centrist based on this description". Well, I disagree, and it is original research, which we should really avoid doing. Brat Forelli (talk) 22:14, 21 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The article from dziennik is old, Lubnauer isn't the party leader anymore, also the oko.press description is weird, how is an economically Neo-Liberal and by European standarts socially centrist party "centre-left"? Also I didn't do original reaserch, if a source said that a party was "Neo-Fascist" it would be safe to use it as an citation for positioning the party as "far-right". 2A02:3030:805:D90B:1:0:EDEA:A8C0 (talk) 00:06, 22 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

https://www.radiowroclaw.pl/articles/view/132261/Nowoczesna-przedstawila-program-gospodarczy-na-nadchodzace-wybory

A third party soure news report, about the announcement of the party's programme for this year's election, where they talk about cutting some of the welfare spending of the PiS government. In what world is this centre-left? 2A02:3030:805:D90B:1:0:EDEA:A8C0 (talk) 00:12, 22 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

> "Neo-Fascist" it would be safe to use it as an citation for positioning the party as "far-right".

Right, but I don't think labelling every party that considers itself liberal as pure centre would be justified. Does the party call itself neoliberal?

> A third party soure news report, about the announcement of the party's programme for this year's election, where they talk about cutting some of the welfare spending of the PiS government. In what world is this centre-left?

Thank you for the source, it seems that the party here wants to increase the kwota wolna od podatku ("Income tax threshold" in English, I guess?). There doesn't seem to be much more to this article. I would disagree that this is a neoliberal policy. Can you point where the welfare part is present in this article?

> The article from dziennik is old, Lubnauer isn't the party leader anymore

Do you believe that the party is now centre or centre-right again? Are there more recent sources describing it as such?

> also the oko.press description is weird

I'm sorry that you think so. I think oko.press is a reliable source. Brat Forelli (talk) 02:09, 22 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Here are two extremely reliable sources that describe ".Nowoczesna" as Neoliberal, one negatively, one positively. Also the party leader Szłapka self-indentifies as an Neoliberal.

http://tyg23.pbox.pl/pl/a/12782/nowoczesna--czyli-neoliberalizm-do-kwadratu.html

https://www.rp.pl/polityka/art2191451-barbara-nowacka-konflikt-w-nowoczesnej-przelewa-sie-na-opozycje 2A02:3030:814:4683:1:0:F310:A854 (talk) 13:06, 22 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]