Talk:Parliamentary private secretary

Parliamentary private secretary was a Social sciences and society good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
March 29, 2007	Good article nominee	Not listed

New Zealand: Politics Low‑importance

	New Zealand portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject New Zealand, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of New Zealand and New Zealand-related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.New ZealandWikipedia:WikiProject New ZealandTemplate:WikiProject New ZealandNew Zealand articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by the New Zealand politics task force (assessed as Low-importance).

Politics of the United Kingdom Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics of the United Kingdom, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Politics of the United Kingdom on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Politics of the United KingdomWikipedia:WikiProject Politics of the United KingdomTemplate:WikiProject Politics of the United KingdomPolitics of the United Kingdom articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

2007 edit

I have renovated and furnished the article, unfortunately it logged me out while I was doing it so I don't think it saved my signature, for anyone who wants to know who worked on it Douglike 11:11, 28 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Failed GA

I've regettably failed the article as a Good Article candidate. My concerns are basically as follows:

The article is too brief. It needs significantly more content and analysis of the role. Everything there is basically right (and, just as importantly, sourced) but I am convinced more can be said.
In general, the paragraphs are very short - if more material can be added then this stylistic point will be easy to address.
Some images would be nice.

Regards, The Land 16:31, 29 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Addition of {{contradict}} template

I've added the contradict template to this article as in one paragraph it says that the role of PPS does not mean that said person is part of the gov't whereas further down the page it says that they are members of the gov't. Quite clearly contradictory I would say.

If someone could please take a look at the page and either correct this or discuss it further with other editors, that would be great.

Deanjwigan 00:39, 9 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Parliamentary Private Secretary. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 02:41, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Notable Parliamentary Private Secretaries to the Prime Minister - section

I am not sure about the purpose of this section as the "notability" seems to be somewhat arbitrary. George Hollingbery for instance is included, but I am not sure why he is seen as more notable than the likes of Bruce Crocott or Sam Gyimah who are not included. Also female holders of the office like Ann Coffey and Seema Kennedy are omitted entirely. Dunarc (talk) 23:41, 23 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I have added what seemed to be one very significant omission J. C. C. Davidson who was PPS to Bonar Law. Davidson went on to have a career which included serving as Chairman of the Conservative Party and his role as PPS to Bonar Law arguably helped secure the succession of his friend and ally Stanley Baldwin on Law's retirement. Dunarc (talk) 22:55, 4 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I might suggest that this section is removed, with the final paragraph perhaps moved to the section 'The role in the career of MPs'. The whole section seems rather redundant, especially as the list is followed by "...relatively few Parliamentary Private Secretaries to the Prime Minister seem to have gone on to serve at the highest level of government themselves..."! FollowTheTortoise (talk) 10:13, 16 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Too, in addition to my previous comment, there is actually already an article on the subject of the Parliamentary Private Secretary to the Prime Minister. Perhaps the section could be moved there. FollowTheTortoise (talk) 21:32, 22 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

PPS to the Minister or the Department?

The explanation of the role of the PPS given here accords with my prior understanding, i.e. that the PPS is appointed to "act as that minister's contact with MPs."

Therefore it has been customary to describe a PPS as being "PPS to the Rt. Hon ...."

I thought this was the point of the word 'private.'

But some MPs now called PPSs are not described in the official references as acting as secretary to an individual minister, but to the ministerial team. I can't recall this being the case historically. Is this a modern thing? For example Siobhan Baillie is described as "Parliamentary Private Secretary to the Ministry of Justice" not to Robert Buckland, and on this page is referred to as PPS to the "ministerial team."

I imagine this makes a difference if, for example, the Minister resigns.

As it is, the page introduction is out of line with its content in this respect. Atconsul (talk) 12:10, 22 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You make a very good point. In the April 2020 list, PPSs can be seen as being either 'to' a team, an office or an office holder.

I do not know how recently PPSs stopped exclusively being 'to' single ministers (if this was ever the case; I do not know), but the lists for November 2010 and July 2017, in particular, suggest that it may have been some time between those dates.

It was, indeed, my mistake that the actual ministers in the last of the three 'categories' weren't previously mentioned in the article. I have now corrected this. But, the issue remains, as you say, that the rest of the article is incorrect where it mentions or alludes to the fact that all PPSs are 'to' a single minister. If given some time, I could fix this. Else, others should feel free to do so instead! FollowTheTortoise (talk) 21:27, 22 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Opposition PPSs?

The lead mentions that the Opposition has PPSs too, but therefter the article solely addresses PPSs from the Government side. Does this need to be edited?
I'm afraid I don't have the knowledge (nor, more importantly, citations) to do this properly.

For example, what are PPSs from the Government side even called? Are they Government PPSs if, as the article stresses, they're not members of the Government?

Ministry (talk) 10:48, 30 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It would seem that the lead is incorrect, at least according to this House of Commons Library briefing paper (a pretty authoritative source, if you ask me) which states that "[a] Parliamentary Private Secretary (PPS) is an unpaid assistant to a Minister" (emphasis added). I will change it now. Good spot! FollowTheTortoise (talk) 12:17, 30 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I should clarify: that paper (assumably) only applies to the UK. I do not know whether it is different in New Zealand. FollowTheTortoise (talk) 12:18, 30 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]