Talk:Wolverine

Gluttony not reflected in English?

"Purported gluttony is reflected neither in English nor in North Germanic languages. The English word wolverine (alteration of the earlier form wolvering of uncertain origin) probably implies 'a little wolf'. The name in Old Norse, Jarfr, lives on in the regular Icelandic name jarfi, regular Norwegian name jerv, regular Swedish name järv and regular Danish name jærv."

Yes, except 'to wolf' has come to mean 'to devour voraciously' and a wolf 'a cruelly rapacious person.' [dictionary.com].

So, if there was a false etymology it might have been aided by the associations people brought to it by comparing it to a wolf. If wolves were thought of in terms of their eating habits; people might imagine it as more gluttonous than a wolf in its eating habits because of its smaller size. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.121.247.40 (talk) 07:04, 30 June 2009‎ (UTC)

Question

description by chantell october 6:38 2009 wolverines are very rair speche they have very sharp claws there discription is they have not to long but long claws they are in a group and in a family of mustelidae.wolverines are from anamali these wolverines are very hard and very rair to find.these wolverines can kill humen speche.I barely know about wolverines somewolverines are very smart.I dont know my question is do wolverines travel? do wolverines live or like the cold? orhot?.please who ever would like to take the time and effort to answer all my questions please and thankyou i would like my answer by tommorrow. but you probabaly cant right answers anywere so you can erase all of mine and right a reply of an answe rplease znd thankyou for your time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.164.215.85 (talk) 01:50, 19 October 2009‎ (UTC)

External link not working

This link in the external link section does not work.

http://www.rmrs.nau.edu/wildlife/forest_carnivores/wolverine/ 88.193.131.187 (talk) 05:39, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

Confirmed ODFW Sighting Lincoln County, Oregon coast

As of March 2024, 4 sightings have been confirmed by ODFW as being a stray wolverine, in Lincoln County Oregon, which is along the central Oregon coast. Sightings included Cascade Head just north of Lincoln City, as well as near Newport. DNA samples of fur collected from near a footprint in Newport confirmed wolverine sightings. -JJF 2600:6C55:6300:A000:35C4:3871:86DE:C769 (talk) 19:14, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

Cool! Thanks for sharing. I don't mean to be a Debbie Downer, but this probably is something better suited to newspapers than an encyclopedia, because encyclopedias summarize a subject into rather large strokes and don't focus too much on small details. In other words, we report things in a much broader and long-term perspective. (See: WP:NOTNEWS) It would be different if, maybe in the future, this is confirmed to be a regular habitat rather than just some sample sightings. Others may disagree, though, but either way we'd need reliable sources for this anyway or else it doesn't mean a thing. Zaereth (talk) 19:22, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 June 2024

The weight figures given are incorrect. The correct figures in a previous version were correct and should not have been changed.

The following sentence: Weight ranges from 7–27.5 kg (15–61 lb); usually 11–18 kg (24–40 lb) in males, and in females 8–12 kg (18–26 lb). should be reverted to: Weight is usually from 11–18.1 kg (24–40 lb) in males, and in females 8–12 kg (18–26 lb).

The sources currently given indicate maximum weights of 18.1 kg, 16.3 kg, 27.5 kg (one source I am unable to access, and the other does not list a weight.) The 27.5 kg figure is wildly out of line with other figures given. The source for the Forest Service's 27.5 kg figure is from Peter Krott, a naturalist who studied wolverines in the 1950s. Peter Krott's writings were prone to embellishment and are not reliable. The Wolverine Foundation gives a maximum figure of 18 kg. The Wolverine Foundation is a nonprofit run by professional wildlife biologists and wolverine researchers. Their figures are correct and this source should be added to the citations. The average weight for an adult male wolverine is between 13 and 15 kg, as evidenced by every primary source on wolverines that includes an actual data table of their observations.

The following sentence: Exceptionally large males of as much as 32 kg (71 lb) are referenced in Soviet literature. should be reverted to: Exceptionally large males of as much as 32 kg (71 lb) are referenced in Russian literature, though such weights are deemed in Mammals of the Soviet Union to be improbable.

Mammals of the Soviet Union puts their own maximum figure at 20 kg, roughly in line with the Wolverine Foundation's figures. Mammals of the Soviet Union not only considers reports of 32 kg wolverines improbable, but "doubtful in the highest degree" and acknowledges Krott's figures as being incorrect. This sentence was changed as the wording was considered "opinionated", but Mammals of the Soviet Union is a reliable source and this is a matter of fact, not opinion.

The following sentence: According to some sources, Eurasian wolverines are claimed to be larger and heavier than those in North America, with average weights in excess of 20 kg (44 lb). should be changed to: According to some sources, Eurasian wolverines are claimed to be larger and heavier than those in North America, with weights reaching up to 20 kg (44 lb).

I cannot access the sources provided for this sentence, but 20 kg is the maximum figure provided by Mammals of the Soviet Union, which is a reliable source.

The highest reliable figure I have encountered is 21.8 kg, from The Wolverine Way (pg. 221) by Douglas Chadwick, a volunteer wolverine researcher. The individual was held in captivity and was overweight and elderly, not representative of weights achievable by wild wolverines. Chadwick puts his maximum for wild wolverines at 20.4 kg. Any figure given beyond 20.4 kg as a maximum weight is baseless and absolutely should not be presented as part of a legitimate weight range. This article, as currently written, contains misinformation. I am a mustelid enthusiast well-researched on this topic and have tried to correct this multiple times, only for other users with no comprehensive understanding of the topic to revert my corrections. Someone please tell me what to do to get the correct information added permanently. Mustelid Enthusiast (talk) 20:29, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

To add onto this further, wolverines have highly active metabolisms, little body fat, and rely on scavenging to survive winter. Your average 34 lb wolverine already constantly battles starvation; a 71 lb wolverine would not survive without human intervention. A 71 lb wolverine would occupy a similar ecological niche to a 90 lb black bear and likely have similar caloric requirements. But, unlike wolverines, black bears have large fat reserves and hibernate through the winter. This is the biological reason why wolverines are limited to a more manageable size.

For comparison, European badgers can reach similar weights to wolverines (up to 37 lbs) in late autumn as they build fat reserves in preparation for winter - wolverines do not do this, but cache their food for later retrieval instead. European badgers also enter a winter torpor, which wolverines cannot do. Even at a smaller size terrestrial mustelids begin exhibiting bear-like adaptations for winter survival. In lieu of these adaptations wolverines must be limited in their size. Sea otters and giant otters are also both larger than wolverines but have consistent access to prey in their marine and tropical wetland habitats.

Just to reiterate, wolverines cannot exceed a certain weight (roughly 45 lbs, which is itself exceptional for the species) without human intervention. Reports of 71 lb wolverines are apocryphal and - to use the words of the actual zoologists who wrote Mammals of the Soviet Union - doubtful in the highest degree. Mustelid Enthusiast (talk) 20:56, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Geardona (talk to me?) 00:23, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

I did, but here it is again (the following changes are under the "Physical characteristics" header):

1) The following sentence: Weight ranges from 7–27.5 kg (15–61 lb); usually 11–18 kg (24–40 lb) in males, and in females 8–12 kg (18–26 lb).

should be reverted to: Weight is usually from 11–18.1 kg (24–40 lb) in males, and in females 8–12 kg (18–26 lb).

Reliable source to add: [1]The Wolverine Foundation

2) The following sentence: Exceptionally large males of as much as 32 kg (71 lb) are referenced in Soviet literature.

should be reverted to: Exceptionally large males of as much as 32 kg (71 lb) are referenced in Russian literature, though such weights are deemed in Mammals of the Soviet Union to be improbable.

3) The following sentence: According to some sources, Eurasian wolverines are claimed to be larger and heavier than those in North America, with average weights in excess of 20 kg (44 lb).

should be changed to: According to some sources, Eurasian wolverines are claimed to be larger and heavier than those in North America, with weights reaching up to 20 kg (44 lb). Mustelid Enthusiast (talk) 21:06, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

I noticed @Adaminaby Angler previously removed the statement Russian literature, though such weights are deemed in Mammals of the Soviet Union to be improbable. I have not yet seen any issues with the rest of the statements (although I can't speak to how authoritative The Wolverine Foundation is as a source). If we can't get consensus for that change, we may still be able to adjust the figures and the rest without any controversy, otherwise we will need to hold this pending consensus from other editors. (I did ping the other editor in case they want to reply) ASUKITE 20:45, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

The Wolverine Foundation is authoritative. Three of their current directors (listed in the about page on their website) are or were the leading figures of wolverine research worldwide. Virtually every modern scientific paper on wolverines will cite Krebs and Copeland in particular as a source. They are literally the subject matter experts on wolverines.

All that's really left to say at this point is that any 50+ lb figure is apocryphal and not supported by current scientific consensus, the 44 lb figure is. Every figure given by actual wolverine researched maxes out at around 44 lbs. Every single primary source - save for one from an exotic animal dealer in the 1950s and which was explicitly called into question by later research from a zoologist - corroborates this. I've spent hours of my time across multiple years trying to get this misinformation corrected on here just for it to be undone over and over again by random people reading non-fact-checked secondary sources. I thoroughly explained everything not once but twice, complete with sources, and the second time my edit request was denied because @Geardona couldn't be bothered to actually read what I wrote (otherwise he would've seen I did use "change X to Y" format the first time).

I don't know if these other editors think they're "erring on the side of caution" by including 61 lbs in the weight range but they're not. A 61 lb max and a 44 lb max are two contradicting claims; only one can be true. The 61 lb figure has no evidence, the 44 lb figure has abundant evidence and unanimous support among researchers. Erring on the side of caution would be acknowledging higher figures exist but are currently unsupported by modern research. I would be willing to accept a statement to that effect. Mustelid Enthusiast (talk) 19:46, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

You should fix it to conform with reliable, modern sources and note, perhaps in a footnote, that higher weights have been reported. It does not sound like the exceptional weights warrant inclusion as within the ordinary range. JohnInDC (talk) 21:28, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

I can't fix it because the article is protected and I'm not an approved user :/ Mustelid Enthusiast (talk) 22:08, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

All you have to do is make 10 constructive edits and then you'll be autoconfirmed. They don't have to be big edits. It could be as simple as going around correcting a few typos and grammar, or whatever. Just 10 measly edits is all it takes, and then you'll be able to edit this article. I know you thoroughly explained everything twice, yet I'm still not sure exactly what it is you want done, and I'd bet others are having the same difficulty. I think maybe the specifics are lost in all the thoroughness. Since you know exactly what it is you want to change, the simplest way is to just make the changes yourself, then we'll all know what you want done. Either that, or copy/paste the sentences here and then show us exactly what the changes should be. I'm not even sure where these numbers are found in the article, so I need specifics. Zaereth (talk) 03:13, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

Dude, I listed the changes I want made twice in change X to Y format. Here it is for the third time:

(the following changes are under the "Physical characteristics" header)

1) The following sentence: Weight ranges from 7–27.5 kg (15–61 lb); usually 11–18 kg (24–40 lb) in males, and in females 8–12 kg (18–26 lb).

should be reverted to: Weight is usually from 11–18.1 kg (24–40 lb) in males, and in females 8–12 kg (18–26 lb).

Reliable source to add: [1]The Wolverine Foundation

2) The following sentence: Exceptionally large males of as much as 32 kg (71 lb) are referenced in Soviet literature.

should be reverted to: Exceptionally large males of as much as 32 kg (71 lb) are referenced in Russian literature, though such weights are deemed in Mammals of the Soviet Union to be improbable.

3) The following sentence: According to some sources, Eurasian wolverines are claimed to be larger and heavier than those in North America, with average weights in excess of 20 kg (44 lb).

should be changed to: According to some sources, Eurasian wolverines are claimed to be larger and heavier than those in North America, with weights reaching up to 20 kg (44 lb).

I'm trying to be patient but this is getting absurd. I have very limited free time and I'm not interested in wasting it trying to find tiny, uncontroversial edits to make while hoping nobody just reverts them. What is the point of making an edit request if nobody bothers to read it, acts like it's my fault, then tells me to make more changes myself? My experience trying to get this misinformation fixed perfectly exemplifies why it's not worth my time to try to be autoconfirmed. Seriously, put yourself in my shoes for a minute and realize how ridiculous this is. Mustelid Enthusiast (talk) 15:26, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Done. But you should also try to put yourself in our shoes for a second. This is a volunteer project and no one is obligated to do anything. Myself, I spend an average of 10 minutes a day online. I didn't have time to read through that entire book written above. I felt like I might have the gumption to help you out, but it's not unreasonable to ask you to spell it out for me again so I don't have to read through all that. The simple fact is, this is a do-it-yourself project and the easiest way to get anything done is just that, or take the time to make it as easy as possible for others to take enough interest to do it for you. Zaereth (talk) 18:07, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

If you look at the archived history of the talk page you can see I've been fighting for this change for a while and have fixed it myself multiple times before, so pardon my frustration. Anyway, thanks. Mustelid Enthusiast (talk) 23:13, 4 September 2024 (UTC)