User:Dr. Blofeld/May2010

White Horse Temple again

Dear friend. I am concerned that we still have the account of the foundation of the White Horse Temple appearing to have a solid historical basis in the article. This is not the opinion of most modern scholars, both Chinese and foreign. I, myself, defended the basic historical nature of the legend at first, but am now convinced I was wrong. I will take the liberty of quoting at length two of the most respected scholars who describe why the account is now generally not taken as fact:

“The dream of Emperor Ming (A.D. 58-75) of the Han Dynasty has often been connected with the introduction of Buddhism into China. Briefly, the episode is as follows. One night in a dream Emperor Ming saw a golden deity flying in front of his palace. On the morrow he asked his ministers to explain the identity of this deity. One of them, Fu Yi, replied that he had heard there was a sage in India who had attained salvation and was designated the Buddha, who was able to fly, and whose body was of a golden hue. He went on to say that the deity seen in the dream was this Buddha. The ruler accepted his explanation and dispatched envoys abroad to learn more about this sage and his teachings. The envoys returned bringing back with them the Sutra in Forty-two Sections, which was received by the emperor and deposited in a temple constructed outside the walls of Lo-yang.

An anachronism is inherent in this story. If this purports to be the first introduction of Buddhism into China, where, how, and when did the minister, Fu Yi, obtain his remarkably accurate description of the Buddha? To make the problem more complicated, the various Chinese sources describing this episode do not agree on significant details. The date of departure of the mission ranges from 64 to 68, while the return date varies from 64 to 75. The names of the envoys are also not uniform. In one source Chang Ch’ien, who journeyed to Bactria in the second century B.C., appears as one of the envoys, but this historical anachronism is too glaring and in a later source his name is withdrawn. The destination of the mission is Scythia in some accounts, India in others. At first no mention is made of foreign missionaries returning with the mission, but in a fifth-century version one Indian monk is mentioned, while in a sixth-century work two such monks appear.

This version of the introduction of Buddhism into China cannot be accepted as authentic and reliable. . . .

The most telling argument against this version of the introduction of Buddhism under Emperor Ming lies in the fact that Buddhism was already introduced into the country at the time of the purported dream.” Ch’en (1964), pp. 29-31.

Zürcher (1972), p. 22, says (minus Chinese characters):

“A very famous story, the apocryphal nature of which has only been recognized in modern times, deals with the “official” introduction of Buddhism into China under emperor Ming (58-75 AD). Instigated by a dream, he is said to have sent a group of envoys (in the oldest version headed by Chang Ch’ien, who died in the late second century BC!) to the country of the Yüeh-chih in order to procure the sacred texts. The date of the mission is variously given as 60, 61, 64 or 68 AD. After spending three (or, according to one version, eleven) years the envoys returned with the text (or the translation) of the “Sutra in Forty-two Sections”. They were accompanied by the first foreign missionaries, whose names from the late fifth century onwards are given as ?Kāśyapa Mātaṅga and ?Dharmaratna. For them the emperor built the first monastery, the Pai-ma ssu, at Loyang.

Maspero and T’ang Yung-t’ung have subjected the many versions of this story to a detailed analysis, which has led both scholars to conclude that we have to do with a pious legend; we shall not repeat their argumentation. Their final verdict is not he same: T’ang Yung-t’ung still envisages the possibility of a nucleus of historical fact behind this tradition (op. cit. p. 24-26); Maspero on the contrary rejects the whole as a piece of fiction, a propagandistic story full of anachronisms, which seems to have originated in Buddhist circles in the third century AD, to be further developed in the course of the fourth and fifth centuries and to reach its definitive form at the end of the fifth century.”

I believe, because of this we need to make plain in the article that the story is no longer considered to be of historical validity in scholarly circles. It does, unfortunately, make the whole subject less exciting and more difficult to deal with in the article. I have also added these notes to Nvvchar's sandbox. Sincerely, John Hill (talk) 23:51, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

I have seen detailed editing done by you. The two tags marked for citation are difficult to find (the text is from the original article and all my efforts have failed to find suitable references) and hence the text is better deleted. As regards the 1175 ot 1973 question mark, the situation is the sasme as for the two tags. Hence, this portion of the text also needs to deleted. The above comments of Dr John are valid and you have adressed them. By the way, how do we to transfer imgs from wikitravel sites to wikicommons for use in wikipedia?--Nvvchar (talk) 10:17, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

Hi again to both you and Nvvchar! No, I haven't done the editing I think is needed on the article - partly because I didn't want to barge in too much, and partly because I am not up to much at the moment - although I am doing some small edits on the Karmapa Lamas and some work on Karma Gon Monastery, as the article on it did not indicate how large and important it once was - something easily missed in its present forlorn state. However, I am really only working at about a quarter of my usual pace and attention and I have a very busy schedule ahead this month. I have to attend several functions at one of which I will be giving a public lecture on the development of the Silk Routes at a restored Chinese Temple from the gold-rush days at Atherton (about 350 kms south of here), and culminating in leaving for Canada and Japan on the 27th - so, I am really out of the picture for some time for anything except a bit of dallying here and there.

I would like to see some discussion of how the White Horse Temple in Luoyang became part of the "official" Buddhist story about the introduction of Buddhism to China - a story which has generally been accepted at face value until the last century - and how it has been shown in more recent times to be basically legendary and of doubtful historical value - though, perhaps, with a kernel of real history hidden in accretions. I am really hoping you and/or Nvvchar can pull it together - I am, unfortunately, almost constantly on heavy painkillers at the moment and don't feel up to it. I would be most happy, though to look it all over when you are done and make whatever constructive comments I can.

Thanks for your understanding and congratulations once again to you both - I can't tell you how happy I have been to see the vast pouring out of fine articles - you both are really doing a great public service with your many recent outstanding contributions. I am also thrilled to see you working together so well (something I am not so good at - being basically a loner in my writing and research). With loving-kindness and gratitude, Cheers, John Hill (talk) 10:04, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

Except for the tags in Etymology section I have filled all other gaps in medieval history and fact tags with an addtional reference that I could locate. I hope it is fine now. You have to take a view on the etymology tags.--Nvvchar (talk) 13:05, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

Vietnam, at this stage may be too much. Mixing China and Vietnam for a double article hook may be a bit odd. Karma Gon Monastery will be done. I have other plans for Vietnam such as the Chami Islands, Chami Falls and Chami Island Biosphere - all part of triple article hook. How about Cham Sham Temple, a Chinese temple in Toronto, in Canada? I could not get imgs for this. --Nvvchar (talk) 13:36, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for nominating White Horse Temple on DYK. I have added infobox to Karma Gon Monastery. I have also added more text and references but the prose expansion is still not 5 x. A History section could probably do the trick. I could not find much though. Dr. John Hill may be able to supplement from his library of books. --Nvvchar (talk) 01:08, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

Listed buildings in Liverpool

Hi, Dr. Blofeld. Best to have a word with User:Daviessimo about the split. I'm just adding categories to some articles that I see have none. Cheers, --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 19:10, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

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Karma Gon Monastery

Thanks so much for the infobox and dividing the footnote section - both very good edits. Now, I will have to see if we can find more material to qualify for the DYK John Hill (talk) 10:31, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

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Template:Location map Wales Cardiff

Hi, Dr. Blofeld,

I have been trying (unsuccessfully) to produce the very same map for some time now...thanks very much for that!!! I will use it straight away. Seth Whales (talk) 18:57, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

I'm a little busy with work/life at the moment, give me a couple of days, then I will be back using your maps...thanks again. Seth Whales (talk) 19:11, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Chicago maps

I am not sure how you are calling these maps in the sample page that you showed.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 19:17, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

Nice map and template, thanks for making them. Since my Chicago work is always with TonyTheTiger, I will let him decide where to use the new template. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 16:07, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Urson film poster.jpg

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sortable filmographies

• George Cukor#Filmography

Hey. If such lists are to be coded as tables, they should be sortable, right? This would entail eschewing the use of rowspan for busy years as things would run very amok. Table structures must make sense to the javascript doing the sorting; poor examples at:

• Jonathan Rhys Meyers# Filmography (too)

Cheers, Jack Merridew 05:28, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Yes George Cukor has a good filmography. The Meyers filmography is a mess when you try to sort it. Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 09:47, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

I understood the issues with Meyers and sorting and have fixed it. Basically, the tables need to be sanely structured and the weird header-cells and years-spanning-rows made the table unsortable. Cheers, Jack Merridew 19:30, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Sangamitta

I want this User:Nvvchar/sandbox to be seen by a Srilankan user also. User:Chanakal is not active for quite some time. He has not responded to my message posted two weeks back. I want a second opinion from a local person before we post it on DYK. I have almost completed it. Bi\ut I will move it and post it on DYK only after I get some feed back from a Sinhalese. There is lot of confusion about dates. If some one in Sri Lanka could provide some pictures of the place where Sangamitta lived, her tomb, the broken Buddha image it would be nice. Incidentaly, Druk Air GAN is in a limbo. Russavia has not responded in a week. --Nvvchar (talk) 09:45, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Not at all. There are sevral personal problems which are keeping me dazed. You have not replied to the above.--Nvvchar (talk) 10:05, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

There are no problems with references in Trongsa Dzong article. Why not post it for GAN? Can you have a look at this article which I have again edited for posting on GAN Ashokan Edicts (Delhi). --Nvvchar (talk) 10:34, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Probably you did not notice. Redtiger is getting many of his artciles cleared on GAN earleir than the DYK for the same articles. Looking at this only, I made the suggestion.--Nvvchar (talk) 10:52, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the suggestions on Ashokan edicts. I will address the issues raised by you. As regards other linked articles, it would be a herculian task since most Indian articles are in a mess. I have left a message on Chanakal's page. We can wait for a day. If he does not respond by tomarrow evening then then we go ahead posting it on dyk after your usual copy edit --Nvvchar (talk) 11:45, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Cham Islands

I am writing now on Cham Islands and related Cu Lao Cham Marine park, a UNSECO Biosphere site, in Vietnam, which will be good for a double article hook. There are some good pictures of the islands in wikitravel article on Cham Island which I am unable to transfer to wikicommons for use in the proposed two articles. Can you try to transfer them?--Nvvchar (talk) 12:36, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. Hopefully by tomarrow evening I should be able to finish the drafts for both articles.--Nvvchar (talk) 13:06, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Done by the evening. I hope you like the way the two artciles have developed. There was an edit clash with you in last edit. Please repeat your edit on topography. I have completed my inputs. You are free to add, delete, and wikify and also post on DYK. --Nvvchar (talk) 13:21, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Many happy returns of the day. I am sure you will remember these two artcile as a brith day gift since I wrote in less than 12 hours. Post them on DYK when you are free. Since our Sri Lankan friends have not responded, the artcile Sangamitta could also posted now. I have completed the editing as suggested by you on Ashokan edicts. Which is the correct heading under which it should be posted on GAN -Architecture or Archeology? Enjoy your birthday. Best wishes.--Nvvchar (talk) 14:36, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

I am sure you had a great time celebrating your birthday. Druk Air GA is through. Congrats. I have nominated Ashokan Edicts (Delhi) for GA. How about collaborating on this seven article hook? ...that Yuksom has the first Dubdi Monastery in Sikkim, which is part of Buddhist religious pilgrimage circuit involving the Pemayangtse Monastery, the Rabdentse ruins, the Sangecholing Monastery, the Khecheopalri Lake, and the Tashiding Monastery.

My suggestion for the double article hook …that the Cham Islands (pictured), a group of 8 small islands forming part of the Cu Lao Cham Marine Park, a UNESCO recognized Biosphere Reserve is Vietnam’s national scenic site?--Nvvchar (talk) 23:04, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Motithang Takin Preserve

The DYK project (nominate) 00:03, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Happy birthday

Here's wishing you a very happy birthday with many happy returns! --Moonriddengirl (talk) 21:47, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

My only regret is that the cake is virtual. :( --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 21:47, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks!! I'm really full tonight though, I'll eat the cake to tomorrow! Cheers! Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 21:56, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Happy belated birthday! I haven't been around much, so I only just noticed.... Hope all is well! Calliopejen1 (talk) 13:39, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Pushpin map

Can you make the necessary adjustments for your map in Gerald Ratner Athletics Center.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 13:58, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Sure. I'll create a more central map for Chicago later too. Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 14:57, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

I expect that this article will be on the main page over the weekend or early next week. You may want to try to get the map incorporated before it gets its big day in the sun. Also, Brooklyn Children's Museum is going through the WP:DYK cycle and will appear on the main page in the near future.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 04:09, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Can you make sure the templates each has WP:ALT text on the maps for transclusion.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 12:49, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Is Template:Infobox Skyscraper ready for this yet. I am looking to replace the current map at Trump International Hotel and Tower (Chicago) with Template:Location map United States Chicago Millennium Park.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 13:32, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

When you update Template:Infobox Skyscraper please adjust Trump International Hotel and Tower (Chicago) so that it does not have two maps.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 13:52, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Can you make a list somewhere so that I can keep track of which templates are capable of this feature.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 13:52, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

I imagine that the list of converted templates will be a dynamic growing list. It would be good if there were a way to look at the map templates somehow and see a list somewhere of the current list of compatible templates.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 15:22, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Buildings needing conversion should all be in Category:Buildings and structures in Chicago, Illinois and its subcategories. If you want a high priority list, I would go with all the Millennium Park (WP:CHICAGO's only WP:FT) features, then work through WP:FAs Chicago Board of Trade Building, Fountain of Time, The Avery Coonley School, Trump International Hotel and Tower (Chicago), then WP:GAs 108 North State Street, AT&T Corporate Center, Arts Club of Chicago, Benet Academy, Blackstone Hotel, Blackstone Library, Chicago Midway International Airport, Chicago Spire, Chicago Theatre, DeKalb County Courthouse (Illinois), Douglas Park (Chicago park), DuSable Museum of African American History, Fountain of the Great Lakes, Grand Central Station (Chicago), Harold Washington Cultural Center, Harris Theater (Chicago, Illinois), Haymarket affair, Heller House, Hull House, Joffrey Tower, Lane Technical College Prep High School, Man Enters the Cosmos, Marquette Building (Chicago), Marshall Field and Company Building, Merle Reskin Theatre, Millennium Park, Museum of Contemporary Art, Chicago, Northern Illinois University shooting, Ping Tom Memorial Park, Pui Tak Center, Pulaski (CTA Orange Line), Rainbow/PUSH, Roanoke Building, Rock N Roll McDonald's, Rookery Building, Schulze Baking Company Plant, Schwa (restaurant), Silver Springs State Fish and Wildlife Area, Sixteen (Chicago restaurant), Union Stock Yards, University of Chicago, Washington Park Race Track, William W. Powers State Recreation Area. How do you want to divide these up?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 15:22, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

If you want to make one more close up. 0E/W 0N/S on the street numbering system is Madison and State.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 15:42, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

If there are now four renamed or five maps, please keep the list at WT:CHICAGO up to date. Also, map is not working at Merle Reskin Theatre.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 16:34, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

One other really useful map would be for Near North Side, Chicago, with detail of Streeterville. A lot of important architectural features are there, starting with John Hancock Center and the Chicago Water Tower.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 17:34, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

I have tried your map at DuSable Museum of African American History and it is not working.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 20:33, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Same problem at Arts Club of Chicago.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 23:27, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Also, I can not get the map caption to work correctly at Bronzeville Children's Museum, which goes on the main page in 4 minutes.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 22:57, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

It ended up being 1 hour and 4 minutes, but nonetheless it remains uncorrected (the caption is not working).--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 14:44, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Hi Dr, wondered if you could help me. I added the Livepool central map you created to the Albert Dock page and entered the coordinates, but no icon is showing up. Have I done something wrong? The infobox is a standard building one, which has worked at Cunard Building so I'm a bit stumped. Cheers --Daviessimo (talk) 15:21, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

What???

My birthday is NOT on August 15th... what are you talking about?? :P -- Bollywood Dreamz ^talk 17:33, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

February 16th... but unfortunately you never remember it. :) -- Bollywood Dreamz ^talk 17:57, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

I'm soooooooooooooooo sooooooooooooo sorry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Please forgive me for this. Yeh I know that you've always remembered my birthday. Happy belated birthday - wish you all the very best and all the possible best wishes!!! Shahid • ^Talk2me 19:04, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Tia Carrere is hot! Shahid • ^Talk2me 07:45, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

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DYK for Tango Monastery

The DYK project (nominate) 08:02, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Here is a suggestion for the Sangamitta DYK hook …that Sangamitta (pictured) ordained Princess Anula of Sri Lanka and her 1000 companions as Bhikkunis and thus created the "first ecclesiastical life of the Bhikkuni Sasana in Sri Lanka"? I have refixed reference to suit this suggestion in Section under Mid Life. --Nvvchar (talk) 08:47, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

In that case, I would leave it to you to post this and the Vietnam articles with suitable hooks as you deem fit. Thanks.--Nvvchar (talk) 12:33, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for posting Vietnam articles. I have fixed the reference for the tag. I used the word righteous (of course made a spelling error in my text) instead of word 'celebrations' used in the original text. I have removed the word. Yoy may like to reconstruct the sentence if you are using it for the hook. Thanks.--Nvvchar (talk) 01:01, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Request for input

Hi Dr. Blofeld, would you be interested in commenting at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/July 2009 Ürümqi riots/archive3? This is the articles' third time at FAC, and the last time it sat there for two weeks and no one reviewed it, so right now I'm spamming just about everyone I can think of who's in any way interested in Central Asia or China :) rʨanaɢ (talk) 15:30, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Poo (town)

Sorry for naive comment. I would definitely expand that article, at least elaborating the origin of its name :). You/Nvvchar/John Hill would do that 10 times better though. Materialscientist (talk) 06:36, 8 May 2010 (UTC) Yeah, ita pretty sad how childish some people are isn't it.... Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 09:43, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

You want me to work on this?--Nvvchar (talk) 13:08, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

West Sikkim

There are eight articles on the anvil for a single hook. Four are fairly well developed. You may like to see them now at User:Nvvchar/Sandbox 1 and User:Nvvchar/Sandbox 2 and add more text. There is probably a need to fit in a pushpin map in the two monastery articles. I have requested many authors on flickr for release of imgs. I will continue adding text as I find more references. I will start on the other four articles tomarrow. Since I will be away for four days from Monday (going to Kashmir) we probably would be able to finish all eight by end of next week. The Sangamitta article has lost its value with the img gone. I did not realise that it was under a deletion process for violation of copy rights rules. Though, I am not sure if the reasons for deletion are valid. --Nvvchar (talk) 13:20, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

Give me a day for Dungtse Lhakang. I will add more text and also try to find geo coordinates. The Yuksom artcile is still not fully ready. I will rectify the spellings. There could be many like that in other draft articles too. --Nvvchar (talk) 13:47, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

Pl see if you can transfer this image from this site [1] a wiki site on Thangtong Gyalpo. Since the Lakhang is near Takstong can we for the time use the coordinates of Taktsong or even the National Museum at Paro as it is also close to this Lakhang.? --Nvvchar (talk) 15:37, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

Both articles on Bhutan are good though small in content. Thanks. See Sandbox 1 also. The article is almost ready for the 8 articles hook. Can you locate some imgs for Sanga Choeling and Norbung Chorten? I have made requests but not successful so far. The Norbung Chorten needs a picture for the infobox. What is posted presently is not correct. I don't think I can get access to internet till I return on Thursday. In case Askhokan Edicts (Delhi) GAN review comes up, kindly give an interim reply. Thanks.--Nvvchar (talk) 14:04, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Mexico maps

Honestly, I dont like either. I dont think mountains, rivers and such are important to most articles we use them for... cities, municipalities and the like. They need a political map, but the map he is reverting to is confusing because it has lines for both rivers and states. I would prefer to see a purely political map with no geographic features. Otherwise, the one you prefer is ok as it is less confusing. Thelmadatter (talk) 18:02, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

A Mexico City template map would be cool. One for the Centro Historico también if you're feeling ambitious. Most of the DF articles Ive written are for the Centro.Thelmadatter (talk) 18:18, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

Its not bad. Gives a general idea of where the site is. Anyway to mark the Zocalo or main plaza on the template as a point of reference? The state map is a good idea, especially in conjunction with the national map.Thelmadatter (talk) 00:19, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Re: Location maps

First, both of you are approaching this the wrong way. Obviously, each of you thinks he is right & that consensus supports him; however, the best way to obtain a consensus on this matter would be start a discussion in some neutral location: say at Wikipedia:WikiProject Cities, or opening an RfC on the matter. Secondly, I tend to agree with what Thelmadatter writes above: having mountains, rivers, &c. on location maps intended for cities results with an image which is too busy. (Having them on location maps for mountains, rivers, lakes, &c. on the other hand, I believe is very appropriate.) In come cases where there isn't distracting geographical detail, such as Somalia, there isn't any problems in reading; in others, comprehension is an issue. What you did for Abejones, for example, works quite nicely because it shows roads & administrative details relevant for cities, towns villages. Lastly, what I would most like to see is location maps created for every country on a subnational level -- in the case of Ethiopia, for example, on the Regional level -- which would be very useful. Anyway, that's my two cents (or two pee) on your direct question. But you'd do far better both towards Wikipedia standards -- & reducing your stress -- by starting an RfC on this matter. If you need any help wording it or getting it certified, drop me a line & I'd be happy to help. -- llywrch (talk) 04:38, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Oops. Sorry about the delay in responding; I've been busy offline the last few days. (For example, I had to watch my daughter from 6:30am yesterday.) No, the location maps you created work fine; I'm looking forward to seeing further examples. Until someone insists that the larger scale map be removed, I'm going with having both; the locations of the towns & cities of Ethiopia aren't familiar to that many people outside of that country. -- llywrch (talk) 02:13, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

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Thanks

Thanks for the medal and your kind words. - Chandan Guha (talk) 11:09, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Kuri Chhu

Kuri Chhu - Something can be done but I don't think that it can be taken to the DYK stage. - Chandan Guha (talk) 14:45, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

I have nominated it for DYK - Chandan Guha (talk) 01:16, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Swissotel London logo.jpg

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Articles for deletion nomination of Abay, Almaty

I have nominated Abay, Almaty, an article that you created, for deletion. I do not think that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Abay, Almaty. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time.

Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. Claritas (talk) 20:31, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Trongsa Dzong

Thanks for this one Victuallers (talk) 00:02, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

• I am back but not able to work since my edit bar is not functioning at all. Even my signature is not getting recorded. Nvvchar

• I tried. It is not working. I have left a message in the help desk and also at the site suggested by you. I have posted two artciles on user sand boxes User:Nvvchar/Sandbox 5 and User:Nvvchar/sandbox/Saptha Badri on Rabdentse and Sanga Choeling. I got quite a lot of pictures from helpful authors on flickr which I have used. I have requested to Norbugang Chorten pictures but no response so far. I have not been able to edit the draft artciles fully due to edit bar problems. I hope the problem will be set right soon.

I am again on the move on a pilgrimage in South India. Hence, a little slow in replying and also in finalising Sikkim articles. I will be able to work on Tengboche tomarrow, if it can wait. I think we did Thengboche Monastery earlier. --Nvvchar 16:13, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Atsuko Seta

The DYK project (nominate) 16:02, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

Pulaka

Thanks! And congrats on this recent spate of DYKs. Drmies (talk) 17:24, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

• Zaans Museum is ready to go. Look in the history; I left you a note for a hook. Drmies (talk) 05:12, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:GeorgeCukor.jpg

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Hey

I actually remember having put it on my watchlist but urprisingly I see now it's not. How are you? What was the last Indian movie you watched? :) Shahid • ^Talk2me 15:51, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Paro Chhu

Please expand and/or improve Paro Chhu and put it up for DYK. Cheers. - Chandan Guha (talk) 01:21, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

yes, you are right. I am stuck by too many peacock terms. Please edit them out. I also use Google books sources but could not locate any for this one. - Chandan Guha (talk) 09:19, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

This is google book - Himalayan rivers, lakes, and glaciers By Sharad Singh Negi p. 109 but this does not speak of the chortens. - Chandan Guha (talk) 10:05, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Great work done. This has been a good learning experience for me. On checking I find that the original Chuzom reference was from Google books but I missed the point. I have corrected it. About the Brahmaputra map, I leave it to you. Locaing the river would be a tough task. Cheers. - Chandan Guha (talk) 10:47, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Infobox Commune Cambodia

Template:Infobox Commune Cambodia has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Thank you. Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 02:40, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

I hope this is what you had in mind. Cheers. Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 02:44, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Unreferenced BLPs

You started a number of articles on this list: Wikipedia:WikiProject Visual arts/Unreferenced BLPs I wonder if you have refs to add, or if any merit AfD? Ty 10:24, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

I don't want to get notable artists deleted, but I wondered if they all met the criterion. I've posted to User:Pohick2.[2] Ty 11:12, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Just one decent ref per article would remove them from the list. Ty 11:49, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

OK, no major problems, I think. Easy enough to sort out. Ty 12:18, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. That's fine, now you're aware of things. Ty 12:28, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

I'll have a look later, see what I can come up with. That book I was using last night might actually prove to be quite helpful in sorting things out... --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 13:28, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

my ears were burning. there's only a hundred; it's pretty easy to do 5 a day; the ticking time bomb of "beanie baby" TY is the new normal. given the language bias i'm more inclined to include the marginal figure if they have that Lithuanian bio reference from Lithuanian wiki, but there is a need to include the detail, and change from "painter" to "sculptor" or other. notice we have to raise the stub standard for written article, to ones better referenced, but everyone wants to tag, no one wants to edit. Pohick2 (talk) 02:28, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Do you mind not making stupid gratuitous personal remarks. Dr. Bloefield said you had expressed an interest in editing the articles and suggested I inform you about them, which I did. If you're not interested, that's fine. They only need one decent ref to remove them from the unreferenced BLP list. We don't rely on other wikis as sources. The last statement in your post is somewhat hyperbolic, not to mention grossly inaccurate. Ty 04:39, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

I'm not quite certain exactly what is being said here/implied but I think we are all on the same side, I'm sure Tyrenius is aware that many of them if expanded and referenced meet our content requirements. But sorting out the BLP issue is priority. Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 10:07, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Turkmen Carpet Museum

An editor has nominated one or more articles which you have created or worked on, for deletion. The nominated article is Turkmen Carpet Museum. We appreciate your contributions, but the nominator doesn't believe that the article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion and has explained why in his/her nomination (see also Wikipedia:Notability and "What Wikipedia is not").

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Orphaned non-free image File:KingRalph2.jpg

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Chicago maps

Please stop adding maps to the articles here. I have started a discussion about it on Tonys talk page, as I find them very unnecessary and distracting. Feel free to join in. --Torsodog^Talk 16:58, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

DYK for White Horse Temple

Thanks from me and the wiki Victuallers (talk) 00:02, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Kapchagay Reservoir

Thanks for this one Victuallers (talk) 12:02, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Pushpin maps in general

Why is the infobox museum using different syntax than the rest of the templates? That will be a point of confusion that we should try to rectify.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 14:58, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Yes, unification of the syntax for building related templates is a great idea. Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 15:28, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Also, there seems to be commentary that the inset maps are not useful because of their size in the Template:Location map United States Chicago Loop and Template:Location map United States Chicago Near North Side. I think this could be rectified in the latter by doubling the width and heighth of the inset, but in the former where there is no space to do this, I think the inset is a problem.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 14:58, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

It sounds like you have converted some more infoboxes (US Historic places). Can you keep the list up to date at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Chicago#Template:Location_map_United_States_Chicago or somewhere.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 15:26, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

LOL, Tony you're fussier than my (late) nan. I've updated the Loop map with a big mother of a window and I was about to update the done ticks! Yes Plastikspork the United States Register infobox could also be made consistent. Locplacename aint cutting the mustard. Regards. Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 15:41, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

I think I miswrote my request above to double the size. I meant to double the Near North Side inset. I did not realize the Loop inset would still look O.K.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 03:25, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

I was looking at the Rookery Building. Is it possible for both your map and the Illinois map to remain on the page. I was thinking of doing the other National Register of Historic Places buildings and did not want to wipe out the state locator map.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 03:47, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

You are missing the point. Complementary maps are common in infoboxes. See Buffalo, New York, Chicago, Illinois, or New York City. (I did not look through dozens of pages to find these three examples. They are the three places that I have resided in for the most months in order). None of these has replaced one map with another. They have all chosen to use complementary maps.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 14:25, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

When you said no it isn't, did you mean my statement "Complementary maps are common in infoboxes" is wrong? That is not correct. It is right as shown by my example above. I am sure two of the three places you have lived the longest also have complementary maps if they have maps at all.

What did you mean by no it isn't. I think you meant to say. Something like complementary are not something I am interested in because my maps have not achieved consensus.

This is a no consensus debate. Right now we have:

In favor (5): User:TonyTheTiger, User:Dr. Blofeld, User:Peregrine Fisher, User:Bluap (plus User:Ruhrfisch from the original discussion)

Opposed (5): User:Torsodog, User:Knulclunk, User:Camelbinky, User:Deor, User:Pichpich

The point is if we are going to add the new maps, we should do it correctly, which is not to delete other infobox map content and use complementary maps.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 14:53, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Nepal

Okay, I now have a script that does this. I believe you were just looking for moving the coordinates to the infobox and adding the pushpin map, but I had it cull the excessive number of blank entries as well, since most of them will never be needed. Is there anything else that should be done to each page? Thanks! Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 20:03, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Erm, well if you could somehow use a bot to magically make them all inot full articles with photographs... Just kidding, that example looks perfect. If you could take care of that. I personally prefer the relief map of Nepal though, it is especially significant for such a mountainous country. Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 20:14, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Yes, that would be nice. For helping clean up Italy, I got a spaghetti fork. I am wondering if there are any unique utensils in Nepal? A google search turned up some interesting housewares and some forks. Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 23:05, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Kuri Chhu

The DYK project (nominate) 06:03, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Turkmen Carpet Museum

The DYK project (nominate) 12:03, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Possibly unfree File:FrancisMcDonaldsilent.jpg

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Possibly unfree File:RoyDarcy.jpg

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Fair use rationale for File:BlancaOlmedo.jpg

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DYK for Lhuentse Dzong

Materialscientist (talk) 12:03, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Dutch topics

Yeah, I've noticed that with Dutch topics - there seems to be a lot that wants transwiki-ing. A lot more than I expected. Perhaps I'll do a few artists later; we'll see. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 14:30, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

One billion? Oh, yes, easily I'd say. I don't expect to see it in my lifetime, now, but I think there's ample possibility of that. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 14:59, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Well, look at some of the heritage registers we've begun covering. There's potential for tens of thousands of articles, at least, from those. And species, and localities, and geographic features...each of those will go, at least, into the hundreds of thousands. When you think of the small fraction of coverage we have even now in those areas, and factor in all of the other things that can be written about, then yes: I think one billion articles is an easy target, eventually. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 16:44, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Sure - I'll give it a shot later this afternoon. Maybe this evening, at latest. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 17:27, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

More later...I'm going off lunch now. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 18:03, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Tengboche

I have added lot of text now. It is probably now ready for positng on DYK. I have also posted seven of the eight articles on Sikkim. I see you have started editing Yuksom. Please have a look at the other six articles also and wikify as needed. However, could not find much text on Dubdi Monastery and Sanga Choeling Monastery. You may be able to find some text from books which you have. By this evening, I will add the most important article namely the Tashiding Monastery. I have already given my suggestion for the eight artcile hook which you may like to fine tune before posting on DYK.--Nvvchar 02:41, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

I have now posted Tashiding Monastery article and also made minor eidting in all eight artciles for unit convesrion and internal links. You may like to consider this hook for posting on DYK. ...that Chogyal established the first monastery at Yuksom in Sikkim known as the Dubdi Monastery in 1701, which is part of Buddhist religious pilgrimage circuit involving the Norbugang Chorten, Pemayangtse Monastery (pictured), the Rabdentse ruins, the Sanga Choeling Monastery, the Khecheopalri Lake, and the Tashiding Monastery. Img in infox of Pemayangtse Monastery is eye catching.--Nvvchar 07:47, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for posting the hook as suggested. Tengboche has come out very well. Almost fit for GAN. May I reqeust you to have a look at the Chitradurga Fort article, which is waiting for your copy edit, before I post it again on GAN? Thanks. --Nvvchar 14:08, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Get well soon. Keep me informed, please. I hope it is only fatigue or acidity. No hurry for copy editing. Your friend (he is from my state-Karnataka) on flickr released all the pictures and also another lady. I may not be able to edit for three days from 20th May as I mentioned earlier I am going on pilgrimage to a place in the west coast of India--Nvvchar 14:23, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Please see John Bod's comment below Tengboche DYK Hook. His observations appear valid. Since I could not get this reference 1 on my screen fully you may like to reply or reword the hook. The eight article hook has been cleared but with a request for an additional reliable reference. I will find one and add it. As regards the new article, I will work on it on my return from my visit to the west coast.--Nvvchar 12:43, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

Desireé Bassett edits

Hiya. I wanted to ask you abut a series of edits you made to the aforementioned article, and specifically with this edit. Could you point out how the blog isn't notable? I am aware of our policiy regarding blogs, but the critic is recognized in her field of music criticism, much like George Will is about politics (and yes, I concede that she isn't as published as Will, but I was aware of notability, and not book sales, as a litmus for inclusion). I think commentary is pretty much in line with what other critics are saying, though hers stands out as being a bit more flashy. That isn't a bad thing.

Additionally, your comment that "too many quotes are unencyclopedic" would seem to contrast with other advice that I've been receiving; to whit, 'if you cannot cite it, you cannot include it'. Rather than risk removal, individual or sectional 'cn' tagging, I've cited anything that might be challenged. And of course, specifically because it is a BLP, every potential challenge-able bit of info must be cited or removed. Especially, quotes from the subject themselves should not be removed, as they offer unique insight into the subject of the BLP from the subject themselves. The linked comment should really remain, and I feel rather strongly about that. Of course, I would like to discuss the matter more with you, if you are up for it. The same goes for the comment from Dan Bassett; your edit summary, declaring it as unencyclopedic seems a bit unfair, especially when many other FA articles also note praise of fellow band members (the Pixies is but one example). That comment would seem somewhat more incisive to the article, considering the subject's relative youth in comparison to the other members of her band. Dan Bassett is pretty notably placed to make the quoted assessment, I think.

It would seem (from this edit) that you at least know of the subject. The citation from your edit here rather pointedly points out her dearth of skills with drums, as does the citation from Southern Fried Magazine.

I look forward to discussing these edits with you. We can do so here or in the article discussion. :) - Jack Sebastian (talk) 04:11, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Your edition in N1 road (Morocco)

Hi Dr. Blofeld, I guess you haven't noticed that this is actually a blanking of an article. A history merge is needed in order to keep the history of authors and comply with wikipedia's license. Best regards --Ecemaml (talk) 06:17, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Dr. Blofeld. You have new messages at Jack Sebastian's talk page.
Message added 08:31, 18 May 2010 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Jack Sebastian (talk) 08:31, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Dungtse Lhakhang

The DYK project (nominate) 12:02, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Sangamitta

The DYK project (nominate) 12:02, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Hey

Is your email enabled? Calliopejen1 (talk) 12:54, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

I just sent you a message. Calliopejen1 (talk) 14:40, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Brahmaputra map

I have been working on Raidak River for some time. I shall be grateful for your kindly placing a modified Brahmaputra map on the page. You can identify the river from the Raidak coordinates. After placing the new map, you can remove the existing map. Cheers. - Chandan Guha (talk) 13:03, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

The map is fine. Thanks. Cheers. - Chandan Guha (talk) 17:19, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Categories

Sure - give me a little time and I'll get to them for you. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 21:01, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Right - I've done up to 1950, but I have to leave now. Whatever others need doing, I'll do 'em tonight. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 21:38, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Sure thing - I'll try and catch a few to populate with, at least. I should be in again tonight, given the weather. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 21:43, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

OK - I'm back on it. I should at least have the categories ready to populate by the time I go to bed. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 01:35, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I've made some pretty good headway with adding categories; I'll add a few more, then I'll go to bed. More tomorrow, once I get the chance. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 05:21, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I'll knock out a few before I get going for the day. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 13:49, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

Right - I've done to 1840. More later. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 14:20, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

So I see. Actually, I take that back - there's not a lot left to create, so I'll finish 'em off. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 14:34, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

Done. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 14:44, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Cu Lao Cham Marine Park and Cham Islands

There is a minor (fixable) problem with your DYK nomination of these articles. Please visit the nomination discussion for a full explanation. - DustFormsWords (talk) 02:08, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

What the....?

...hell are you talking about? Did I not reply to your message about NT Rama Rao? I replied to all of Rahul's messages as well. Your anger is not justified. Yes, I often don't read messages when I'm busy and sometimes I even miss some because there are new sections but after all I do return to check my talk page and reply. Are you seriously that offended with me? And do you really think I do that on purpose? And why did you remove your messages on my talk page. Unbelievable. Shahid • ^Talk2me 12:19, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

Ohh I'm sorry I did not notice this message because this guy from Mallika Sherawat's page kept sending me his long messages............. I also miss you friend... And I miss editing Wikipedia like before. :) Shahid • ^Talk2me 12:26, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

Just wondering... Do you remember Sarvagnya and all the other POV pushers? Shahid • ^Talk2me 20:14, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

"STOP it Blofeld! POV, OR, RS, copyvio images, idiot! I'll get the bollywoodblog images removed at any cost." LOL... Nice work. Shahid • ^Talk2me 21:02, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

Don't you dare!! I'll revert you! ;) Shahid • ^Talk2me 18:59, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

I told you once didn't I - this guy hates Bollywood and anything that has something in common with Hindi films. If those images were also for Kannada actors, he wouln't even have said a word against them. He never even dared to put a single ref template on the so many unsourced Kannada articles. Shahid • ^Talk2me 21:57, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

Yup!! Definitely! LOL! :) Shahid • ^Talk2me 18:54, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Hotels and Museums

• All of these transclusions of the building infobox matched the keywords hotel/motel:

There might be more, but these are the ones with "hotel" in the title. Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 15:44, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

OK thanks, I'll add the list to my user page. I'll do as many manually as I can. I'd recommend that the rest of the skyscrapers are merged with infobox building... Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 15:48, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

Birlik

I don't really have much on Kazakhstan, but I added one ref to source the Kazakh spelling and its administrative status in 1987. By the way, whoever pointed out that this Birlik is not the only one in Kazakhstan is right—according to my source, there were at least three more villages by this name elsewhere in the country. Might want to move it to a less ambiguous title later. I'll also check if I have more on Kazakhstan when I come back home tonight.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); May 19, 2010; 20:42 (UTC)

I only put "village" in because that's what my source identifies the place as. If it was since promoted to an urban-type settlement or a town, I wouldn't know. As for your frustration, I understand perfectly. I could never fully understand the reasons why someone would so much want to get the (verifiable) geo-stubs deleted. In the former SU, every single district had a local lore museum. Some were more boring than others, but they always had plenty of info on the local histories. Libraries were also everywhere, and each had its own local history section. Heck, the small town I myself am from had a whole damn shelf, and the place wasn't even a hundred years old when I was a kid!—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); May 19, 2010; 20:54 (UTC)

Zip me up Velcroman.

Lovely. Why other people can't be as constructive as you beats me. And when the same articles is renominated by the same user just days after the last one these people wonder why I am not wanting to hug them? I have every right to be annoyed with them, I thought I explained the reason why Kazakh settlements don't have millions of web sources in the last AFD till I was blue in the face. Sigh, I really wonder why I bother sometime when it ends up "me" being the seen as the bad person in all of it. Verifiable settlements should be banned from AFD, it is just a waste of everybody's time when they always get a resounding keep, however small. And then when a user with edits in three years counted on a single page like Velcro tries to play God and dictate what or what I should not say to people trying to delete my work it ends up being a joke. Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 20:57, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

Sometimes I'm sooo tempted to make a proposition to the deletionists to buy me a ticket and cover the travel expenses to whatever country the article being deleted relates to (in this case, Kazakhstan), and I will gladly reimburse them double those costs if I return back home empty-handed, without "multiple sources" to support the article :)—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); May 19, 2010; 21:13 (UTC)

Indeed that would be a great idea, and it would be a real eye opener as well. I can imagine all those people who are imagining this shack in the middle of desert at AFD and visiting some of the smaller towns and really finding it hard to believe that the settlement is not well covered on the Internet. Google maps is the nearest thing we have to viewing such places at the moment and I don't know about you but I spot several hundred buildings. We've both seen full articles on the tiniest of hamlets with photographs I don't why it is so inconcievable that this place might be of note to people living in the area without Internet communications. It is so important ot realise that google is an extremely uneven resource which mirrors the way knowledge and power is unevenly distributed through the world. As fantastic as it is in many areas, google does not have the power to distribute knowledge of places which are yet to develop widely with the Internet. It is up to people in these places to gain access to computers and the Internet and put the information out on the web for google (and us) to organize. I find it is very hard to accept that a place is only notable because some English/American folks wrote about it. How many notable locations in Russia have yet to be widely covered in English based sources I wonder... The Internet is not the real world.... How much of the world is off the Anglo/modernized radar... Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 21:21, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

Hey, you are preaching to the choir here, dude :) Remember this one? I couldn't find anything solid about it at the time (except for that NTV gag report). How tempting it must have been to assume the place is not notable beyond its funny name, eh? Well, eat this! The site itself is hardly a reliable source, but it's a very good illustration of what kind of information is available out there. And every other shabby-Russian-village-population-five is going to have at least as much written about it over the years. It's not that there are no sources, it's that there are often no easily accessible sources. What that is so hard to understand to some is beyond me.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); May 19, 2010; 21:47 (UTC)

I had forgotten actually I had to translate some info from German wiki to remind myself. If I remember correctly Mike Starr had a big pair of them in a 1994 Seagal film (On Deadly Ground).... I means Scrotum to be precise doesn't it? LOL. I remember seeing you and Russavia talking about it and I was thinking it was a notable town and you would expand it. LOL! Ezhiki can you add a source or two to verify what I translated. There are some links on de wiki. LOL I clicked the source you showed and it translated it as "History of the village of the scrotum"!!! . Oooh thats a possible DYK.... Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 21:56, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

Well, it does mean "scrotum" in modern Russian, but it definitely was not named after that particularly body part on purpose! It is just an unfortunate coincidence. In reality, the village name is a plural diminutive of an archaic Russian word meaning a "bag/purse for carrying money". The regular form (мошна, moshna) is still familiar to most Russians as it is still occasionally used (mostly in proverbs), but the diminutive (moshonka) now associates predominantly with, well, "scrotum". Needless to say, the modern meaning jumps to mind of any native speaker first! In case you were wondering why a village would be named after a money purse, it's because such tight purses were an attribute of rich people, a great number of whom inhabited the village in the 19th century.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); May 21, 2010; 13:54 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Harris Theater (Chicago, Illinois)/archive1‎

Since you have expressed an interest in this WP:FT, I thought I would alert you to Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Harris Theater (Chicago, Illinois)/archive1‎.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 00:23, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

SVG maps for Cambodia

It's too bad we only have one provincial map in here. Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 01:45, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Hotel Pulitzer

The DYK project (nominate) 06:02, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Cu Lao Cham Marine Park

The DYK project (nominate) 18:03, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Cham Islands

The DYK project (nominate) 18:03, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

The "hide sidebar" and "back-and-forth" scripts.

Two things:

1. You can remove the wikiapi line from vector.js. It is no longer needed.
2. Please WP:BYPASS (this updates to the latest version of the sidebar hiding script) to fix a problem with the pop-up search suggestions not appearing directly under the search box, but rather a bit to the left.

Thanks again for suggesting (in some way) the sidebar hiding script; I like the extra room for text on screen. PleaseStand ^(talk) 01:28, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Hotels etc.

Perhaps. But I was looking yesterday at the article on opera in Latin America, and find that there are a lot of redlinks that could stand filling. Maybe I'll work on some of those today.

By the way, see what I started last night? --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 13:48, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Well, one doesn't eat the leaf. Only the innards. It's very tasty - I had it for the first time at an Indonesian restaurant in Alexandria last week. I still need to write about what I had for dessert - es campee. That was complicated, but also good.

Actually, our ethnic dining options in DC are quite good... --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 14:49, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Zaans Museum

The DYK project (nominate) 18:04, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Aldona Gustas

The DYK project (nominate) 12:03, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Paro Chhu

The DYK project (nominate) 12:03, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Tibet Museum (Lhasa)

Hello! Your submission of Tibet Museum (Lhasa) at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Thelmadatter (talk) 19:35, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Ha Chhu

Please expand/improve Ha Chhu. I am not particularly keen on DYK for this article but you may decide. Cheers - Chandan Guha (talk) 00:19, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Yuksom

The DYK project (nominate) 18:09, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Congrats on the eight articles DYK. I don't know why I have not been credited on my talk page for Dubdi Monastery and Yuksom articles. Is it due to change of rules or technical hitch? Similar miss has happened with Sangamitta article also. If I count all eight to my DYK credit then I have touched 201 DYKs now. --Nvvchar 21:18, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. Yes, I have noted that once the DYKs on board are cleared, you will cross the 200 mark. I have bought a few books on Tibet, Bhutan and some travalogues, which should suffice for expanding Thimpu and also Norbulong Palace in Lhasa. By the time you are back they would be ready.--Nvvchar 12:58, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Dubdi Monastery

The DYK project (nominate) 18:10, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Norbugang Chorten

The DYK project (nominate) 18:10, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Pemayangtse Monastery

The DYK project (nominate) 18:11, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Rabdentse

The DYK project (nominate) 18:12, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Sanga Choeling Monastery

The DYK project (nominate) 18:13, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Khecheopalri Lake

The DYK project (nominate) 18:13, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Tashiding Monastery

The DYK project (nominate) 18:14, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Infobox map reformat clarification

I see that you seem to have reformatted the Harris Theater as a one off. Could you reformat this whole system for all the infoboxes you have made compatible with your locator maps to remove the text overlay and just use a dot.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 20:54, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

I made the fixed dot map for you as a one off for the Harris Theater for the very reason that I am not reformatting the entire system Tony..Map labels are standard practice for most infoboxes on here that have pin maps. National Historic infobox being one of the exceptions. Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 09:04, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

This leads me to a series of questions:

1. Can you make the text overlay (map labels as you call them) optional?
2. Did/Can you make the dot feature universal on the map system that you have created for structure infoboxes?
3. Do you realize that labels on places may be standard, but labels on structures is a new thing that I believe has only been implemented without objection on National Historic structures (AFAIK)?
4. Given the objections on numerous grounds to implementing the system for structures, why would you attempt to implement it with a style for places rather than a style that has not been objected to on other structures?

Basically, what I am saying is that I really appreciate your attempt to implement maps in structure infoboxes. I love the availability of maps. However, others are not so keen on the idea. I believe that although so far we have had no consensus in many venues where the debate has taken place thus far, if we do not make the changes to your structure infoboxes to make them more like acceptable structure infoboxes they are going to be objected to. I will not be able to argue in their favor without changing them to dots with either no text overlay or optional text overlay. I would love to argue for them, but can not without the elimination of icons and the text overlay, which account for half of the objecting voice.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 13:06, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

I hardly think it will make any difference if the pin has a label or not. That is not what the concern is, only yours. The people who disapprove of the maps disapprov eof them anyway, in whatever form. This has been proved by the way I've made a range of maps for you to try out and did not change any minds. So however the map was designed it isn't going to persuade the people who think the maps are not needed anyway. I can't force people to like them. I made maps of the cities as I personally think it helps the reader visualize where in the city it is, I see them as a good thing. But if I spend my time creating maps and trying to implement them and people start removing.them kicking up a fuss then I'm wasting my time. Show to me that a significant number object to having labels on maps but like the idea of maps in building infoboxes and I'll make the change for you. As it stands I can only see that it is you who isn't fond of the labels. Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 16:54, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

My point is to make the maps as much like the maps that are not being objected to as possible. Maps have been on National Register buildings for years. If we are debating about maps on buildings, we should make them as much like the maps people are not objecting to as possible. If you read the debates, many comments say the text is in the way. Let's eliminate that part of the objection before it gets shot down at a wider forum. So I repeat. Is it possible to make the text optional or not. Can we make all the pushpin maps a dot instead of an icon. Dude, I have spent 25 hours on templates that have been TFDed. I know sometimes things get undone. That is part of the process.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 17:22, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Actually the map does look cleaner without a caption and just a pin. I just tried it. Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 17:34, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

As I like you and chuckle at your persistance I've changed the pin for infobox building and infobox theatre. I just made a DC map. Check out the White House. I think it looks good. You'll have to get an adminstrator to remove the label and switch the pin icon for museums though. Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 18:17, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for making changes to some of the infoboxes that you have overhauled. I am fine with black. The White House looks good. You are causing histerics over an issue where I am trying to help support your changes. Forcing me to hunt down people to complete the rest of the changes makes no sense if you really want the pushpins to be implemented or at least keep them from being removed you have to do your best to make them conform to similar things that are not being objected to.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 19:25, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Honestly I'll make the maps and add them to infoboxes whether a few people like Tor dislike them or not and regardless of what pin is used. You'll never find everybody happy with something. You'll have to sort out Chicago though. But I compared the label and icon to a simple pin and I happen to agree with you that such is the way open street maps are that a minimist look is better as the caption sometimes clashes with the background streets. So for buildings a simple dot is probably better. I generally couldn't give two hoots what one or two might think of them if most people generally find them useful and don't remove them from articles. I made the changes because I think it is an improvement and looks cleaner not because "I really want the pushpins to be implemented". Lets get one thing clear. They are being implemented. They've been used in historic infoboxes for yonks and still remain. Replicating the same mapping format is not problematic in my view...And when there is considerable overlap like with National Building Museum being a historic place using a different infobox it does make perfect sense to have the same mapping system... Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 20:18, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Looking again at the White House do you have different scale maps for DC. A closer one might be better. Just a thought. However, with these infoboxes, we are both trying to improve the project. I just wish openstreetmap thumbnailed more legibly. It is not clear to me what direction the 8 or 10 infoboxes that you have converted are heading. Are you converting them all to black dots? removing text overlay? Can any of the infoboxes use the state maps that the NRHPs use?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 21:46, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Yes I've made a central map, the WH was the first one I did though. Just add a central on the end.. Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 21:51, 26 May 2010 (UTC) I did try to black pin but it wasn't prominent enough, blended in with the map. So red it is. Yes text labels and icons have been removed from infobox building, theatre, museum, hotel etc. If you want a state map just type Illinois in pushpin map map/type field. Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 21:55, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

What was the Chicago building page of converted infoboxes? I think you put it in my userspace somewhere.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 22:02, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Let me see.... User:TonyTheTiger/Chicago building maps Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 22:27, 26 May 2010 (UTC) If you want the skyscraper infobox converted to building ask User:Plastikspork... There already is consensus to do so but it hasn't been done yet as people are very busy! Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 22:28, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

As I look through User:TonyTheTiger/Chicago building maps, I see that Gerald Ratner Athletics Center and AT&T Plaza (which use {{Infobox Stadium}}), Chicago Midway International Airport (which uses {{Infobox Airport}}), Bronzeville Children's Museum (which uses {{Infobox museum}}), and Hyatt Regency Chicago (which uses {{Infobox hotel}}) are not fully converted yet. All but the last still have both icons and text overlays. I am not so against the infobox hotel using an H or the airport using and airplane, but the problematic text overlays still remain. The opponents of this issue are pretty serious about their objections. I am trying to ensure it is isolated to the image quality of the thumbed streetmap. Doing so will enable us to say if the local map is intolerable the state map option is available.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 23:44, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

I like the H marker for hotel. I think it is clear and acceptable. See Hyatt Regency Chicago. I rmeoved the label, what are you talking about? Stadium and airport I haven't got around to yet, shall do shortly. Hotel and museums have been converted but hotel retains H marker.

Mmmm I've been thinking. You know on ebay when you are browsing you can hover over the phot of the item in the gallery and it zooms it, wouldn't it be ideal if we could do the same to the infobox maps so you can see the street names and dot on.. Kind of like a magnifying glass. I wonder if that is possible... Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 08:36, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

I have been starting to put together User:TonyTheTiger/sandbox/Map summary. I am also looking at the remaining pages at User:TonyTheTiger/Chicago building maps and wondering what is the status of {{Sculpture}}, {{Infobox school}}, {{Infobox skyscraper}}, {{Infobox shopping mall}}, {{Infobox Historic building}}, {{Infobox park}}, {{Infobox civilian attack}}, {{Infobox Station}}, {{Infobox Organization}}, {{Infobox restaurant}}, {{Infobox Protected area}}, {{Infobox university}}, {{Infobox_road}}, {{Geobox}}.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 02:57, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

User:TonyTheTiger/sandbox/Map summary is not up to date.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 14:18, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Then update it, amigo!! Template:Infobox historic building is alreayd redirected to infobox building.. If you want some of the others sorted ypu'll have to wait until Plastikspork returns.. Geoboxes are awful things, relpace them with a more familar infobox whenever you can. Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 14:28, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Merge proposal for malls see Template talk:Infobox shopping mall. Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 14:34, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

AWB

Sure thing - with pleasure. I'll get to it tonight. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 13:31, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

I like it. I think it should be OK for use; it covers enough of the important historic area that almost everything major will show up on it. There's not a whole lot, beyond a handful of National Register listings, beyond the borders of the map as created. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 18:22, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Actually, looking at it again I might make it just a shade larger. The Capitol building is the official center of the city, as it was originally laid out. Extend it a little, and you can catch more of Foxhall Road and MacArthur Blvd., but more importantly you can get a little more to the east, which I think would be helpful. The other maps would be helpful primarily in the neighborhood articles, which I think could stand some maps. And I think Tony's right; these maps look better with only the pin and not an extra label. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 18:31, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

That's a good crop for central DC. As to the original, can you extend it east and west by just a little? Not by a whole lot. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 18:49, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Mmmh, that's a bit big, then. (I'm afraid I'm not yet too familiar with OpenStreetMap). Sorry to nitpick, but given the choice, I think the first of the two options is better. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 19:06, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Well, they're not bad, by and large. By the way, I tested out Template:Location map United States District of Columbia street over at Kreeger Museum - that was about the only place I could think of where it might be preferable to the smaller crop. As it is, the museum is just off the map. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 19:22, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Nope - construction hasn't started yet. I'll see what I can get when it does begin. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 20:45, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

That's one I haven't managed to get to yet. Been meaning to, though. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 20:59, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

It is nice - and it's been getting nicer all the time. I like it a lot more than I used to.

Something seems off about File:Location map District of Columbia.png: I tried using it in the Anacostia Community Museum article, and the pushpin goes to the wrong location. But when I check the coordinates against Google maps they're correct. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 21:21, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Yes - that looks right. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 21:41, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

I think I like the one that's there now best. Excellent work; I'll find some other places to put it later. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 21:56, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Actually, I like what I see there. Scary - I was thinking on the way home about doing something similar... --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 23:32, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

OK, AWBing done - I think I caught everything I needed to catch. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 05:18, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

When doing these types it's worth replacing {{gnis}} => {{GNIS}} U.S. state => US state (maybe) and {{Infobox nrhp}} => {{Infobox NRHP}}. Rich Farmbrough, 12:22, 27 May 2010 (UTC).

DYK for Eastern Docklands

The DYK project (nominate) 06:02, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Towns

I could look at this presently, you may not be aware that the database dumps are currently broken. Rich Farmbrough, 12:10, 27 May 2010 (UTC).

Dumps are halted due to Bug 23264...

Sovetskaya Kultura

Yup, it's notable alright—there is an article about it in the Great Soviet Encyclopedia (GSE), and its circulation was around 400,000 in the 1970s. And by the way, it still exists, although they dropped the "Sovetskaya" moniker from the title in 1991 (so it's just Kultura now). Here is their website, and here is a short blurb they wrote about themselves.

As for the GSE article, you can find its copy here. However, I don't quite understand why they would say that the paper was "established in 1973", and at the same time mention that a paper "of the same name" was published in 1953–1972. I wonder if there was a change of publisher in 1973. Also, according to the paper's website, they were established in 1929, possibly referring to the predecessor paper called Sovetskoye Iskusstvo (Soviet Art).

Anyway, as you see, it's never easy :) Hope it helps at least somewhat.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); May 27, 2010; 13:07 (UTC)

It was known as "something" until 1953, not 1972 :) But, I would just go with the GSE. The website doesn't even mention the "Sovetskaya Kultura" title on the page I linked to.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); May 27, 2010; 13:18 (UTC)

Done. By the way, is there a reason why you didn't start the article using the current title of the newspaper?—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); May 27, 2010; 13:38 (UTC)

No biggie. I guess it was better known under its old name anyway. The current circulation is paltry ~25K; quite a drop!—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); May 27, 2010; 13:42 (UTC)

Sorry to disappoint, but I was :)—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); May 27, 2010; 14:26 (UTC)

Yeah, there's definitely a pattern there :)—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); May 27, 2010; 14:30 (UTC)

DYK

Do you save all these DYKs? I remember you started a subpage for them. Shahid • ^Talk2me 13:59, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

AWB

Sure - if I can get to it tonight I will. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 18:14, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Talk pages are done. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 05:39, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Zoomable map

That link is great, but what goes in the WP article?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 18:22, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

I am pretty sure German for American_Museum_of_Natural_History is something spelled very differently. What page am I suppose to be considering?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 18:31, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

I am not sure what I am looking for.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 18:38, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Keep me posted on what is going on.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 19:24, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Ooh, yes - I quite like that. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 22:08, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Mahabaleshwar Temple

Yes, the image of the temple is good but photography inside the sanctum is prohibited. I returned on 24th and posted an article on Mirjan Fort. Another article is now ready on my user page, which you have read and edited the infobox. I have finished the draft article now. You may like to post it on DYK with a suitable hook.--Nvvchar 01:33, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Norbulingka

The prose is expanded by more than 5 times. It can be moved now after your inputs and then posted on DYK.--Nvvchar 05:58, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

List of shipwrecks in the Bristol Channel

Hi, I note you created this list. I've added another wreck and had a general reshuffle of the list. A couple of things though, "Bristol Channel" needs to be defined for the purpose of the list. I'd say the upstream point to be the Severn Bridge, as wrecks upstream of that are covered in Disasters on the Severn, but at what point on the English and Welsh coasts? Are we to go as far as Lands End and Skomer Island (and the line drawn between them). Secondly, would the article be better titled Bristol Channel Shipwrecks, in line with Blackpool shipwrecks and Southport shipwrecks? Mjroots (talk) 07:37, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

P.S This website has plenty more wrecks! Mjroots (talk) 07:50, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Actually, looking at File:Bristol channel detailed map.png, Hartland Point and St Govan's head, including Lundy (3 mile radius?) would seem to be a better definition. Mjroots (talk) 08:08, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Messina Palace

Thanks from me and the wiki Victuallers (talk) 18:03, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

References