User talk:Profbounds

Welcome!

Hello, Profbounds, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few links to pages you might find helpful:

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Please remember to sign your messages on talk pages by typing four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or click here to ask for help on your talk page, and a volunteer should respond shortly. Again, welcome! WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 18:26, 4 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Sibelius score

Hi! I just wanted to let you know I fixed that rest you were having trouble with at Symphony No. 7 (Sibelius). My only question is why bother replacing the PNG image with the <score>...</score> snippet? Is one form preferred over the other, do you know? (I haven't had a lot of experience editing music articles at Wikipedia, but I do have fairly extensive experience with the LilyPond syntax.) WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 18:26, 4 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@WikiDan61: Thanks for the info! The only reason to replace the images with the snippet is that is allows the <score vorbis="1"> which creates an ogg/vorbis MIDI file that will play the example (if you are on windows/linux - Apple doesn't support ogg). Profbounds (talk) 01:00, 5 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I don't notice that I can play the sound file associated with the scores. But that may be my browser (my company enforces use of IE10, much to my chagrin). WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 12:13, 5 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@WikiDan61: Works great in Waterfox on Windows. I just tried IE11 and can add that to the list of 'not supported.' Maybe I am creating lilypond vorbis files for a limited number of people. I still like the format of lilypond over image files on the page. Profbounds (talk) 13:07, 5 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Your submission at Articles for creation: Hérodiade (ballet) (August 11)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Chris troutman was:

This submission is not adequately supported by reliable sources. Reliable sources are required so that information can be verified. If you need help with referencing, please see Referencing for beginners and Citing sources.

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.

If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Hérodiade (ballet) and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
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Chris Troutman (talk) 23:37, 11 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Chris troutman: I have reworked much of the page. I removed the block quotes, per your suggestions. I cleaned up the section with the musical examples, but I am reluctant to remove them. Did your comment about their added confusion mean to remove them or just clean it up some? I appreciate the feedback, as this is my first attempt at an article. Profbounds (talk) 15:04, 12 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I see the draft has been accepted. I appreciate your efforts to clean up the text. A minority of readers are music-literate so the staff sections don't help them. The fact that you don't provide secondary-source analysis of those sections make their applicability questionable. Again, my interest is in the article summarizing what other sources have said about the subject. Chris Troutman (talk) 21:30, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hello! Profbounds, I noticed your article was declined at Articles for Creation, and that can be disappointing. If you are wondering or curious about why your article submission was declined please post a question at the Articles for creation help desk. If you have any other questions about your editing experience, we'd love to help you at the Teahouse, a friendly space on Wikipedia where experienced editors lend a hand to help new editors like yourself! See you there! Chris Troutman (talk) 23:37, 11 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Music notation examples

Music notation examples in articles on compositions are currently discussed at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Classical music#Use of music notation examples in articles on compositions – I'm inviting you to that discussion. --Francis Schonken (talk) 11:07, 15 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Your submission at Articles for creation: Hérodiade (ballet) has been accepted

Hérodiade (ballet), which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.
The article has been assessed as Start-Class, which is recorded on the article's talk page. You may like to take a look at the grading scheme to see how you can improve the article.

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FoCuS contribs; talk to me! 21:57, 16 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

September 2015

Category:Wikipedians who opt out of BracketBot messages

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Suggestions

I know two articles that would benefit from your Lilypond expertise: L'Arlésienne (Bizet) and Peter and the wolf (though it has no Movements sections or similar). Also Symphony No. 5 (Beethoven). Thank you for your musical contributions Triplecaña (talk) 08:51, 15 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I will take a look and see what I can do. Thanks for the suggestions.Profbounds (talk) 23:30, 27 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Lieutenant Kijé (Prokofiev)

Thanks for the music examples that you recently added to the above. In general they enhance the article, but I have one reservation. You provide two examples in the "Birth of Kijé" and "Kijé’s Wedding" sections, which in each case breaks up and rather overwhelms the descriptive text. My view is that in relatively short movements such as these, incipits are probably enough; perhaps you have other suggestions for presentation, otherwise I am inclined to remove the additional examples. Brianboulton (talk) 14:52, 15 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I certainly understand the desire to reduce reduce the clutter. I made a few changes to the page. I hope I found a happy medium. I moved the fanfare theme from the first to the last movemnt since it occurs in both. Per your suggestions, I opted to remove the coronet theme from Wedding section.Profbounds (talk) 01:16, 16 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Better, but I'm still not sure – the text in the "Birth" section is still fractured. I'm on a semi-break at the moment, intending to return to regular editing in July perhaps, when after further work I'll probably ask for a peer review, so we'll get a wider range of comments then. Again, thanks for your interest. Brianboulton (talk) 15:57, 16 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hello again. As indicated above I arranged a peer review, and subsequently nominated the article as a Featured article candidate. At the FAC review a few points have been raised about the music examples, thus:

"The score excerpt of the fanfare should have a ritardando and a smorzando. Each is important, reinforcing the "distant" and "mournful" nature of it". Presumably this refers to some additional instructions in the score – do you agree. and can this be done?

It was easy enough to add the rit. and smorz. markings. They are in the score.

"I'd suggest placing the excerpt from the Romance an octave higher, which is how it first appears, but it certainly does appear later in the G-below-middle-C register." What do you think?

Although it appears to be written an octave higher, because it is scored for Contrabasso it will sound an octave lower than scored. I have notated it in the sounding octave, which also matches the octave of the singer in the original version. Notating it an octave higher would match the look in the score but not the actual sounding octave. Thoughts?

"What is the copyright status of the music itself?" Can you comment on this aspect? I believe that anything by Prokofiev published after 1925 is back under copyright. Since this is 1934, I am sure it is copyrighted. However, I believe that the examples might constitute "fair use" under the "Amount and Substantiality" factor. The examples are fragments of the complete score and are further removed from the original context because they are not photocopied from the score. The piano midi sound file is, also, removed from the orchestral timbre associated with the original.

Any assistance you can give on these points will be much appreciated. Brianboulton (talk) 14:46, 23 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hope this helps.Profbounds (talk) 23:06, 23 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Your adjustments help a great deal, and I am most grateful. I don't think we need to move further on the octave question. I generally share your view on the acceptability, for copyright purposes, of these brief quotations from the music. Brianboulton (talk) 16:13, 24 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Precious

musical language

Thank you for adding musical examples to read and listen to musical works such as The Rite of Spring and Fauré's Requiem, for serving in several European languages, - Master of Music, you are an awesome Wikipedian!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:17, 7 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Danke

Three years ago, you were recipient no. 1472 of Precious, a prize of QAI! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:27, 7 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Help with music examples for Sibelius tone poems

Hey! I noticed that you were the user who edited Tapiola to have the musical example of the opening motif. Thank you! I am currently at work on writing an expanded version of the tone poem's article, and will be sure to retain this. I was curious: would you be able to help me provide musical examples for other Sibelius tone poems? I just don't understand the code. I have an FA on The Oceanides that could really use examples for the two subjects. I'd also like to have some examples for Pohjola's Daughter and En saga. If I provide you with the excerpts I need, could you write the code? Thanks, regardless! Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 17:47, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Glad to hear you are expanding the Sibelius articles. I would be happy to provide the music examples for you. Let me know what you want ( I think I have scores to Oceanides and Pohjola's Daughter ) and I will pass them along.Profbounds (talk) 22:23, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Outstanding! Thank you, thank you, thank you. For The Oceanides, I need Subject A [Flute 1, measure 5-7] and Subject B [Oboe solo and Clarinet solo, just before D]. I have prepared the article space for you, at The Oceanides#Structure. Thanks! Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 03:33, 6 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I added the first example for Subject A. The midi instruments are optional. I can revert it back to the default piano midi sound if you prefer that. I set the tempo at crotchet = 40. There is no tempo indication in the score. That can be adjusted as well. I was unsure about including the last two beats of m.7. It would be easy to cut the phrase off earlier.

Hey! I am very, very pleased. It sounds and looks great (but crotchet = 40 is pretty slow... 60 sounded more correct to my ear, based on all the recordings I have heard). As for beats 3 & 4 in m.7, you're right that they should probably be cut off, since the phrase ends on beat 2. Or, alternatively, you could retain them and proceed on with the new phrase (it is a cool variation)... but I worry too much quoted music could add aesthetic clutter to the article. I'll defer to you. I'd be very grateful if you could also add subject B when you have the chance. Thanks! How hard would it be to generate the wave-crash climax? I imagine it's simply too many parts. (Also, I have identified 3-4 candidate musical examples for Pohjola's Daughter. I have a sandbox going.) Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 00:22, 7 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hey! I just checked the score. I think there are two minor mistakes. The score I am looking at shows two sharps, not three; second, the two lines you produced are Flute 1 and 2... Oboe is silent. Thanks! Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 01:01, 7 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

LOL! Thank you for calling them "minor" mistakes. There are several conversations about the potential for cluttered articles. What about a piano reduction of the wave-crash? Profbounds (talk) 17:33, 7 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ha! They're minor enough. Thanks again... I just noticed you put up subject B. Thanks! But, a minor minor mistake: the (fuzzy online) score I am looking at looks as though the clarinet has four sharps, which will mean the inclusion of some accidentals on the whole notes. (sorry... I cannot name the notes, because I don't remember how to read music anymore...) Also, I think quarter note = 90 or 100 sounds a bit closer to what I am used to. Thanks again, Prof! Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 18:38, 7 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You are correct. The Clarinet parts are in B (transposed). I don't know how to have the part appear as written but sound with the transposition. I will research the possibility of having it appear in transposed part but sound at pitch. Profbounds (talk) 18:56, 7 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I really cannot thank you enough! I have been hoping to obtain Sibelius musical examples for years! You've been a huge help. Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 14:56, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Needs for Pohjola's Daughter (no rush... just posting while it's on my mind):

Opening cello solo (4 measures; m.1–5)

That's a long rest at the beginning! Might people think the recording isn't working? Thoughts? Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 00:21, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sleigh-ride music
Väinämöinen's theme (trombones two m. before marker C; continue 2 measures in or until key change)

Thanks! But, and so sorry, I think we need to go three more measures until tranquillo molto. I also just realized that it's the trumpet that has the key double eighth note, so we might need one of those, too. Finally, the crescendos should have the floor drop (ffp < ffz). Thanks! Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 00:21, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I am looking into how to render ffp and ffz (they are not in the basic dynamic list). I wonder if there would be less clutter if I rendered this selection in a piano reduction. I am currently working: 1. dynamics markings, 2. extending the example through the key change, and 3. adding upper brass. It may take a couple of days.Profbounds (talk) 21:35, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I am inserting the example ( in its current state) here. It is starting to get complicated. One unfortunate side effect, in order to reduce the clutter from the dynamics, the midi instruments don't balance well. I have resorted to the default piano midi sound in the past for some of the larger examples although other editors have come in behind me and inserted midi Instruments. Thoughts?

${ \new StaffGroup << \new Staff << \new Voice \relative c' { \set Staff.midiInstrument = #"trumpet" \clef bass \key g \minor \time 4/4 \tempo "Poco allargando al." \stemUp \clef bass s1 | s1 | \clef treble \time 3/2 s1 s4 s8 \slurUp cis16( d) | <g bes,>8 <f bes,>~ <f bes,>4~ <f bes,>2\p\< <d bes>4\!\ff r8 cis16\f( d) | \numericTimeSignature \time 2/2 <g bes,>8[ <f bes,>~] <f bes,>8. r16 <c' d,>8[ <bes d,>8~] <bes d,>8. r16 | \time 3/2 <ees bes f ees>1\p~ <ees bes f ees>4~ <d bes f d>8 r | } \new Voice \relative c { \set Staff.midiInstrument = #"french horn" \stemDown s4. r8 r4 bes->\f~ | bes2\< f'->\! | \time 3/2 bes1\ff\< bes4\ff\! r8 cis16\ff\( d) |} >> \new Staff << \new Voice \relative c' { \set Staff.midiInstrument = #"trombone" \clef bass \key g \minor \time 4/4 \stemUp < bes g>2\f < c bes f>4.\f-"crescendo" r16 < d bes f> | \tieUp < d bes f >4 < ees bes ees, >~ < ees bes ees, >4. r16 < f bes, d, > | \time 3/2 \tempo "Largamente" < f bes, d, >1 < d bes f >4 r | <d bes g>8 <d bes f>~ <d bes f>4~ < d bes f>2 <d bes>4 r | \numericTimeSignature \time 2/2 <d bes g>8[ <d bes f>~] <d bes f>8. r16 <c f,>8[ <bes f>~] <bes f>8.~ r16 | \time 3/2 <bes f bes,>1~ <bes f bes,>4~ <bes f bes,>8 r8 |} \new Voice \relative c { \set Staff.midiInstrument = #"tuba" \stemDown r2 r4 r8. d16 | \tieDown d4 c4~ c4. r16 bes | \time 3/2 bes1\ff\< bes4\!\ff r | bes8\ff-> bes\>~ bes4\!~ bes2\p\< bes4\!\ff r | \numericTimeSignature \time 2/2 bes8\f[ bes\f~] bes8.\> r16\! d8\f[ d\f\<~] d8.\~ r16 | \time 3/2 bes,1~\p\< bes4~\!\ff bes8 r | } >> >> }$

Daughter's theme (solo oboe and solo flute before marker D... first three measures after key change)
Daughter's teasing laughter and Väinämöinen's angry retort (flute and oboe at E; retort is cello, b.clar, bassoon, and bass... probably don't need them all... maybe just the cello?)

Thanks! Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 01:33, 7 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Needs for Tapiola @ User:Silence of Järvenpää/Tapiola#Structure:

I would prefer the opening 10-note motif to be in the strings rather than piano. Any way we can have Violins I/II, viola, and cello together? (score at [1] Thanks! Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 23:25, 7 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Kullervo FA

Hi, Profbounds! In the past, you did a wonderful job assisting me with Sibelius articles by making audio files of musical motifs (e.g., The Oceanides and Tapiola). I have a new project: I'm aiming for an FA on Kullervo (working in a designated sandbox) by the 130th anniversary of its premiere (April 28, 2022). Would you be able to again contribute by adding audio files? If so, I would help you get the score and point out the passages and instruments that I would like to emphasize. During the holiday, I plan to pour myself into rewriting the article. I'm hopeful that I will be able to nominate it for FA in January or February. Very warmly Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 18:44, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

audio files of musical motifs

Hello Profbounds, I noticed that you are creating wonderful midi music samples with fragments of motifs. How you do that? I would like to learn to do this kind samples, it is very informative. Where i can find information, to learn to do this codes? Thank you in advance for your help. Patrick0506 (talk) 18:10, 18 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]