Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Devorah Frost
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- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. -- Cirt (talk) 02:03, 3 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Devorah Frost (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log • AfD statistics)
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Doesn't meet WP:ATHLETE as Ohio Valley Wrestling is only a farm team of WWE. Also doesn't meet WP:ENTERTAINER or WP:GNG. Nikki♥311 21:27, 24 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Wrestling-related deletion discussions. —Nikki♥311 21:28, 24 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete - and OVW was a farm league, not any more and the fact that she was not moved to FCW indicates she was one of the OVW workers who did not have a WWE developmental contract. fails General Notability. MPJ -DK 05:25, 25 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 15:38, 26 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete Per above.--Curtis23's Usalions 03:41, 27 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Do Not Delete Ohio Valley Wrestling falls under WP:ATHLETE as by definition it is a. "fully professional level of a sport" being that it is a fully functioning wrestling territory who runs a regular pro schedule (multiple weekly house shows, 1 weekly nationally distributed TV taping and 1 nationally distributed DVD event a month.) It also falls under WP:ENTERTAINER as it's video library is owned by World Wrestling Entertainment. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.68.99.10 (talk) 15:48, 27 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- WWE owning a video library does not make every single wrestler that appears automatically notable, especially since she's never been signed by the WWE. It's been established time and again that just being a pro wrestler is not enough for notability - read Notability, it states when people are notable. MPJ -DK 15:57, 27 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- "Just being a professional wrestler does not make someone noatable" is a very true statement. Being a former champion in a main stream territory does. WWE, ROH, FCW, OVW and TNA are all full functioning wrestling territories. OVW and FCW are not "farm leagues" as they have their own talent, their own show and both have television and their own following and neither were ever owned by WWE (OVW existed before they were a developmental territory and were a member of the NWA), in fact OVW had a farm league called Derby City Wrestling for "amateur level" pro wrestlers. Other notable WWE developmental territies were "Smokey Mountain Wrestling", USWA, and Extreme Championship Wrestling. It is the pro wrestling equivalent of a MMA fighter going from WEC to UFC and vice versa. One is more main stream than the other but both are pro MMA companies with a working relationship with one another. That would make any OVW champion former or current "Notable". People just don't become notable because they go to the WWE. In particular, Serena Deeb, Josie and ODB who all won that same title without a WWE developmental contract are more "notable" back then than they were when they left. To put it in simple terms, wrestling territory = professional, professional champion = notable. It's not rocket science. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.68.99.10 (talk) 16:17, 27 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- a few things 1) OVW is not a mainstream territory, it was a farm league, now it's just another indy fed remembered by it's WWE affiliation. SMW, USAW & ECW were never developmental territories so I'm not sure where you were going with that misinformation. Oh and the comment of going from "WEC to UFC" would hold weight if she actually worked for the biggest wrestling promotion ever (WWE) but she never did. And well yes, yes they do become more notable by working for the WWE than OVW. "wrestling territory" = any indy fed out there = "just being a professional wrestler", which in itself is not notable. Cut to the chase, no arguing - if she is indeed Notable then you can easily provide Verifiability through references in Reliable sources. So let's stop arguing, if you can provide reliable sources that show her to be notable then good, that's the best argument winner you can get. MPJ -DK 19:56, 27 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- WWE contracted talent assigned under USWA= Flex Cabana aka the Rock, the Godfather, Ahmed Johnson, Vader, and Mankind but this isn't about wrestling history. You seem to be arguing your opinion of someone or something which isn't the point. The point that you need to make is "Does this person fall under wikipedia's terms as notable?" and OVW falls under the guidelines put forth under those terms. Until Ohio Valley Wrestling the company and it's lineage is proven as "not notable" via the terms of this website. Any former champion or person of note from that company past or present is as well just as any character on any TV show considered notable would be. This is a reference site. Not an opinion poll or popularity contest for wrestling fans to debate their favorite companies. IF OVW was not considered notable by wikipedia's terms, then the page should be deleted no questions asked. Since it is and she is listed on many of the wikipedia pages associated with the company, there should be no debate. --99.68.99.10 (talk) 22:11, 27 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- As I said - prove that Devorah Frost is notable not OVW or whatever. Verifiability through Reliable Sources on her, not arguments that she "inherits" notability from OVW. MPJ -DK 22:29, 27 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- I only have to prove that she is notable via the terms that are in question. The reason the page was nominated for deletion is because Ohio Valley Wrestling was being considered a farm league for WWE. Being that it is a full time wrestling company (thus making it a "territory"). It is owned by Ohio Valley Wrestling LLC who also owned Derby City Wrestling and Vyper Fight league MMA promotion (Thus making it not "Independant")and had association with the National Wrestling Alliance, World Wrestling Entertainment and Layfield Energy (all three nationwide companies) and WWE never having exclusive rights to her, her name and her likeness that would say otherwise. So again, the subject is the validaty of whether OVW is professional or a minor league. If it is decided that OVW is a minor league or "farm league" for WWE, then she is not notable. Please stick with the subject. --99.68.99.10 (talk) 23:50, 27 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- That's where you're wrong - she has to have notability, she does not inherit notability from OVW. MPJ -DK 05:38, 28 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- I only have to prove that she is notable via the terms that are in question. The reason the page was nominated for deletion is because Ohio Valley Wrestling was being considered a farm league for WWE. Being that it is a full time wrestling company (thus making it a "territory"). It is owned by Ohio Valley Wrestling LLC who also owned Derby City Wrestling and Vyper Fight league MMA promotion (Thus making it not "Independant")and had association with the National Wrestling Alliance, World Wrestling Entertainment and Layfield Energy (all three nationwide companies) and WWE never having exclusive rights to her, her name and her likeness that would say otherwise. So again, the subject is the validaty of whether OVW is professional or a minor league. If it is decided that OVW is a minor league or "farm league" for WWE, then she is not notable. Please stick with the subject. --99.68.99.10 (talk) 23:50, 27 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- As I said - prove that Devorah Frost is notable not OVW or whatever. Verifiability through Reliable Sources on her, not arguments that she "inherits" notability from OVW. MPJ -DK 22:29, 27 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- WWE contracted talent assigned under USWA= Flex Cabana aka the Rock, the Godfather, Ahmed Johnson, Vader, and Mankind but this isn't about wrestling history. You seem to be arguing your opinion of someone or something which isn't the point. The point that you need to make is "Does this person fall under wikipedia's terms as notable?" and OVW falls under the guidelines put forth under those terms. Until Ohio Valley Wrestling the company and it's lineage is proven as "not notable" via the terms of this website. Any former champion or person of note from that company past or present is as well just as any character on any TV show considered notable would be. This is a reference site. Not an opinion poll or popularity contest for wrestling fans to debate their favorite companies. IF OVW was not considered notable by wikipedia's terms, then the page should be deleted no questions asked. Since it is and she is listed on many of the wikipedia pages associated with the company, there should be no debate. --99.68.99.10 (talk) 22:11, 27 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- a few things 1) OVW is not a mainstream territory, it was a farm league, now it's just another indy fed remembered by it's WWE affiliation. SMW, USAW & ECW were never developmental territories so I'm not sure where you were going with that misinformation. Oh and the comment of going from "WEC to UFC" would hold weight if she actually worked for the biggest wrestling promotion ever (WWE) but she never did. And well yes, yes they do become more notable by working for the WWE than OVW. "wrestling territory" = any indy fed out there = "just being a professional wrestler", which in itself is not notable. Cut to the chase, no arguing - if she is indeed Notable then you can easily provide Verifiability through references in Reliable sources. So let's stop arguing, if you can provide reliable sources that show her to be notable then good, that's the best argument winner you can get. MPJ -DK 19:56, 27 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- "Just being a professional wrestler does not make someone noatable" is a very true statement. Being a former champion in a main stream territory does. WWE, ROH, FCW, OVW and TNA are all full functioning wrestling territories. OVW and FCW are not "farm leagues" as they have their own talent, their own show and both have television and their own following and neither were ever owned by WWE (OVW existed before they were a developmental territory and were a member of the NWA), in fact OVW had a farm league called Derby City Wrestling for "amateur level" pro wrestlers. Other notable WWE developmental territies were "Smokey Mountain Wrestling", USWA, and Extreme Championship Wrestling. It is the pro wrestling equivalent of a MMA fighter going from WEC to UFC and vice versa. One is more main stream than the other but both are pro MMA companies with a working relationship with one another. That would make any OVW champion former or current "Notable". People just don't become notable because they go to the WWE. In particular, Serena Deeb, Josie and ODB who all won that same title without a WWE developmental contract are more "notable" back then than they were when they left. To put it in simple terms, wrestling territory = professional, professional champion = notable. It's not rocket science. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.68.99.10 (talk) 16:17, 27 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- WWE owning a video library does not make every single wrestler that appears automatically notable, especially since she's never been signed by the WWE. It's been established time and again that just being a pro wrestler is not enough for notability - read Notability, it states when people are notable. MPJ -DK 15:57, 27 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, JForget 12:37, 1 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete Not notable. Podgy Stuffn (talk) 08:36, 2 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.