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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was keep. Hermione1980 00:41, 9 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Hanukkah bush

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Note: This was re-nominated for deletion on 2 October 2005, having previously been nominated on 5 September and kept. Technical errors in the nomination process made it appear that this discussion was closed, possibly discouraging participation. Therefore I have re-listed it in the 3 October log to give people a chance to see the discussion in this revised form, without the "discussion closed" notice. Dpbsmith (talk) 20:34, 3 October 2005 (UTC) [reply]
  • Delete immediately It is suggested that this page be either deleted or I will move it to "Jewish Christmas Tree", because of the simple fact that it is a neologism and should be removed in accordance with WP:POINT. It is offensive to both Christians and Jews alike considering that it is a ripoff of the traditionally Christian decoration of a tree at December. Jordain 19:52, 2 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep, because none of the nominator's reasons are valid. In detail: Dpbsmith (talk) 20:51, 2 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  1. It's not a neologism, the term being in widespread and frequent use for decades as shown by the source citations on the page.
  2. The Christmas tree is not "traditionally Christian." As far as I know, Christmas trees are not mentioned in the New Testament. If I'm wrong, please provide a citation. Our article on Christmas trees discusses this in detail and suggests that the practice either originated as a pagan custom, or as a nonreligious celebration originating in 18th-century Germany (which was objected to by at least one priest specifically as not being Christian).
  3. Even if it were considered offensive, the appropriate remedy would not be to delete the article, but make sure the article is neutral, by providing proper, well-sourced material showing to whom it is considered offensive. The article already addresses the differences of opinions between Jews in some detail. I am not aware of any widespread objections by Christians, but if there are, please provide properly sourced commentary for inclusion in the article.
  4. I don't see how WP:POINT applies, because nothing the actions and procedures surrounding this article were disruptive to Wikipedia.
  5. The article was discussed in AfD very recently. In its present form, it received fourteen keep votes and no delete votes. (For some reason Jordain did not vote in the first AfD, even though it is clear he or she was aware of the article.) Dpbsmith (talk) 20:52, 2 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • It should not be moved to "Jewish Christmas tree" for the following reasons. Unlike Hanukkah bush, "Jewish Christmas tree" is a neologism. This term is not used to any appreciable extent. Our naming conventions call for the use of the most common term; this is "Hanukkah bush," not "Jewish Christmas tree." This specific question of whether the article should be entitled Talk:Hanukkah bush on whether the article title should be Hanukkah bush or Jewish Christmas Tree resulted in four fairly strong opinions, all to the effect that it should remain at Hanukkah bush, and no dissenting opinions. Dpbsmith (talk) 20:51, 2 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]


PLEASE POST VOTES ABOVE THE FOLLOWING CLOSED DISCUSSION

Closed discussion from 5 September nomination of Hanukkah bush

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This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

Vanity / OR / neologism / nonsense (take your pick). - ulayiti (talk) (my RfA) 00:19, 5 September 2005 (UTC) Not any more though, since it's been rewritten. Keep this version. - ulayiti (talk) (my RfA) 16:04, 5 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Keep as rewritten (Jewish version of Christmas tree). My delete vote was on the previous article, which was something unrelated about a mythical drug. Real Hanukkah bushes are somewhat of a cultural tradition and the new article is accurate. MCB
  • Delete Hoax. Jobe6 00:42, September 5, 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete per MCB. (Liberal, assimilationist Jewish families—at least in the New York suburb where I grew up—used to put up and decorate Christmas trees during the holiday season and refer to them as "Hanukkah bushes." This eHow article suggest that it is still common. In my experience this was understood to be a joke. There could conceivably be material on this topic, although I seriously doubt it merits its own article. And it's a tricky matter to discuss, because some Jews would probably not approve of the practice nor of the light-hearted name.) Dpbsmith (talk) 00:53, 5 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. Like Dpbsmith, when I was growing up in Chicago, some Jewish families that I knew also had a "Hanukkah Bush." The term is probably widespread, but I think it is better to delete this until the day someone feels up to writing a serious Hanukkah Bush article. Crypticfirefly 01:14, 5 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. Nonsense. Carioca 01:30, September 5, 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete In Alabama, the Jewish friend I hung out with in High School always had a "Hanukkah bush" as well for the shared festival of the winter solstice (Sun Return). If such an article regarding that were actually created, it would not stand on its own but would need to be included with other holiday/festival articles. (After the passover feast, we dyed eggs, too.) --WCFrancis 01:44, 5 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Keep as rewritten. I stand corrected, as well; it looks like it can stand on its own. --WCFrancis 03:12, 5 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.
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