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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. \ Backslash Forwardslash / (talk) 21:03, 30 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Jasper Howard

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Jasper Howard (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)
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Does not meet notability guidelines, notable only for a single event RadioFan (talk) 17:12, 23 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Note: This debate has been included in the list of American football-related deletion discussions. —RadioFan (talk) 18:24, 23 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete See the Tony Fein AfD, non-notable in life = non-notable in death no matter how tragic. Awful tragedy but Howard doesn't pass WP:ATH and sadly never will be able to.--Giants27(c|s) 18:35, 23 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete: Per WP:BLP1E. Joe Chill (talk) 21:08, 23 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Tragic death, but he has no notability other than being murdered. Does not pass WP:ATHLETE. Reywas92Talk 02:54, 24 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Hold on. The suggestion that Howard has "no notability other than being murdered" is misguided. The massive tributes being paid to Howard over the past week are not due to the fact that he was murdered. To the contrary, he is notable as a football player not as a murder victim. The outpouring of attention is the result of the fact that Howard was an extraordinarily talented football player (not to mention being a remarkable young man). He was a team leader for UConn and one of the top players in the Big East Conference. The reference to WP:BLP1E doesn't apply because we're not dealing with a living person, but more importantly because he is not just known for being murdered. And finally, WP:ATHLETE is an inclusionary policy, not an exclusionary one. College football players have long been held to qualify under general notability standards if they have received non-trivial coverage in the mainstream media. Here, hundreds of media outlets across the country have been covering Howard over the past week -- not for his death but for his contributions in life. Even before his tragic death, Howard was the subject of plenty of non-trivial, mainstream media coverage. The following are a few examples of feature articles focusing on Howard (i.e., feature stories and not just game coverage) that I pulled in a five-minute search of the NewsBank database: (1) "HOWARD: BEWARE OF THE BOBCATS, NOTEBOOK", The Hartford Courant, September 2, 2009; (2) "HOWARD TALKS . . . AND LEADS, UCONN FOOTBALL", The Hartford Courant, August 26, 2009; (3) "Junior teacher UConn's Howard passes on lessons", Journal Inquirer (Manchester, CT), August 21, 2009; (4) "Jasper Howard Is Ready", The Hartford Courant, August 10, 2009; (5) "HUSKIES LISTENING TO JAZZ, HOWARD TAKING ON LEADERSHIP ROLE UCONN FOOTBALL", The Hartford Courant, March 22, 2009; (6) "UConn Football: Howard Taking On Leadership Role", McClatchy-Tribune Regional News, March 22, 2009; (7) "Howard Returns To Form For Huskies", McClatchy-Tribune Regional News, November 22, 2008; (8) "Howard keeping busy UConn cornerback expects to be challenged against Rutgers", Journal Inquirer (Manchester, CT), October 16, 2008; (9) "UConn's Howard packs big game for small size", The Daily Campus (University of Connecticut), September 24, 2008; (10) "High times for Huskies' Howard", The Daily Campus (University of Connecticut), September 24, 2008; (11) "Quick decisions Howard improving as UConn punt returner", Journal Inquirer (Manchester, CT), September 24, 2008; (12) "Howard gets nod at cornerback", McClatchy-Tribune Regional News, August 17, 2008; (13) "Howard to impact UConn defense, special teams", The Daily Campus, April 11, 2008; and (14) "'JAZ' CAN DELIVER SOME LICKS: UCONN CORNERBACK OFF TO GOOD START", The Hartford Courant, Sep 5, 2008; (15) "Howard Talked About Being A Leader In The Spring", The Hartford Courant, March 22, 2009; and (16) "New UConn Starting Cornerback A Play-Maker", by Desmond Conner, McClatchy-Tribune Business News, Sept. 5, 2008. Cbl62 (talk) 22:36, 24 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • This misses the point. It's not that he's notable for what he might have done had he lived to play in the NFL. He's notable for his accomplishments as an elite college football player at a major BCS conference program. A college football player who has received significant non-trivial coverage in the mainstream media passes general notability standards, regardless of whether he has ever played a game in the NFL. The substantial media coverage of Howard, even before his death, demonstrates his notability. Cbl62 (talk) 07:20, 25 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Before he died, Howard was already the subject of extensive media coverage based on his athletic career -- a completely different situation than a previously anonymous crime victim. Also, while page views do not necessarily mean the subject is notable, the article has received more than 7,500 page views in the past week and has had some two dozen editors contribute content. Aside from the abundant media coverage showing notability, the page views shows that this is content that users care about. Cbl62 (talk) 07:48, 25 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • This comment misconstrues the two guidelines cited. WP:ATHLETE is a standard for automoatic inclusion of professional athletes. It is not a basis for excluding college athletes who satisfy general notability guidelines based on significan, non-trivial news coverage -- which Howard received prior to his death. And WP:BLP1E doesn't apply both because (1) Howard is not a lving person (this guidline is intended to protect the privacy of otherwise unknown living persons who have achieved limited notoriety based on a single event), and (2) Howard's notability is NOT based on his murder but on his career as a college football player, for which he received widespread media coverage. Cbl62 (talk) 18:26, 25 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete ...or Merge(?) His life and tragic murder is notable in the context of the University and the football program, rather than being notable in of itself. This article should be deleted but perhaps elements should be edited down and merged. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.21.25.241 (talk) 17:04, 25 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This is the only edit ever made to Wikipedia by this IP address. Cbl62 (talk) 15:29, 28 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
A redirect to the 2009 team article really doesn't solve the issue. Howard's biggest year was 2008, and he also played on the 2007 team. Based on the pre-murder feature stories about him cited above, mostly from 2008, Howard has established notability independent of the 2009 team -- no different than other star college football players who have been the subject of multiple feature articles. Cbl62 (talk) 00:11, 26 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep There has been significant media coverage of his death in the United States from numerous national media outlets. ESPN, Miami Herald, USA Today, USA Today. That enough for you??? -Drdisque (talk) 18:59, 26 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep, significant media coverage including on ESPN. Meets notability requirements. Redfarmer (talk) 13:08, 27 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Like I said in the talk page Patrick Dennehy, the Baylor Bears men's basketball player who was murdered in 2003 has a page but he was only known for getting murdered. While it is sad, Dennehy was not a star player and was only known for his death. Jasper Howard however was a star player and looked foward to a future career in the NFL. Annie Le has a page also. She is only known for her death too. I would be fine with merging the Jasper article but not fine with getting rid of it all together. Alyssabelle818 (talk) 27 October 2009 —Preceding undated comment added 17:14, 27 October 2009 (UTC).[reply]
  • Keep I am absolutely appalled that this article has even been nominated for deletion, let alone that this nomination is supported by a number of you. The mission statement of the wiki is "to empower and engage people around the world to collect and develop educational content under a free license or in the public domain, and to disseminate it effectively and globally." I awoke this morning to ESPN Sportscenter giving updates on the murder investigation, now a full week and a half after his death. It immediately prompted me to log into the wiki, and perform a search for Jasper Howard. Apparently ESPN (whom, I'm sorry to inform a lot of you, is a far more reputable source than the wiki) thinks Mr. Howard and his untimely death are newsworthy and worth educating the public about, and apparently I felt a need to be educated about this young man's life and untimely death, so I turned to the the wiki for information, as I always do. His death is newsworthy because: A. He was a muder victim. B. He was murdered on a college campus C. He was an athlete of notoriety whom by all accounts was tipped to play in the NFL.[1]
Annnie Le only fits two of these criteria, yet I don't hear people calling for the pages that provide information about her murder to be deleted. Is it because she went to Yale and not UConn? Maybe. Or because she was attractive and smart? Probably. Either way, they both deserve inclusion, and to include one and not the other would be biased.
I also believe that Mr. Howard deserves his own page, as opposed to Ms. Le (a search for Annie Le redirects to Murder of Annie Le) because Mr. Howard DID fulfill that third criteria of notoriety by being a star athlete. Ms. Le's notoriety is due to her bizarre and untimely death. Mr. Howard's notoriety comes from his football accomplishments at a major Division I FBS university AND his tragic and untimely death.
And by the way Giants 27, last time I checked, Division I FBS is the highest level of amateur competition for american football, and as there is no american football competition in the olympics or an amatuer american football world championships. Mr. Howard was at the time of his death a junior at the University of Connecticut. By NCAA and NFL rules, upheld by the Supreme Court of the United States of America, only players who have completed 3 years of eligibility may enter into a professional draft. Therefore, his lack of professional status cannot be counted against him because he was never legally able to achieve that goal, although by numerous accounts, Mr. Howard would have been a professional athlete had his life not been take from him. Tslims99 (talk) 16:40, 27 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Unfortunately there's a campaign by some "intellectual" members of the Wikipedia community to rid it of anything having to do with sports, especially American sports. -Drdisque (talk) 21:24, 28 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep.Saying he was not an NFL player is not a good enough reason to delete this article otherwise you would have delete every college football players page. Also this will be news for years and will be searched for years to come. Mr. Howard will also be brought in the news each time a college player is killed or dies and many people will want to learn more about Mr. Howard. frankie12
  • Delete - One event CynofGavuf 07:06, 28 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. - This is a major story that has been covered in every major news outlet in the country, people will want to come to wikipedia to learn about Jasper because he IS, in fact, NOTABLE. Why are in people in such a rush to claim that he's not notable? Ranatoro (talk) 20:23, 29 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - He meets the top level amateur level of WP:ATHLETE and received incredible media coverage in death. His college career - which received coverage on its own - means that he cannot be considered a one-event case. matt91486 (talk) 05:49, 30 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Comment WP:ATHLETE does mention the top level of amateur sport but it also specifically mentions Olympic Games or World Championships, or the highest level of international competition. NCAA Football is not that. Even Div-I FBS, consists of 120 U.S. based schools which doesn't meet the letter or the spirit of WP:ATHLETE.--RadioFan (talk) 21:03, 30 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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