Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Renz Nathaniel Cruz

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎. Doczilla _{Ohhhhhh, no!} 05:38, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Renz Nathaniel Cruz

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Unclear if there's enough here for WP:CREATIVE/GNG. Most of the sources have him name-checked as a member of the musical ensemble, but I'm not seeing any in-depth coverage. KH-1 (talk) 03:18, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Actors and filmmakers, Bands and musicians, Theatre, and Philippines. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 04:30, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. This person has barely done any professional work, let alone had a notable career. Strong delete. -- Ssilvers (talk) 05:22, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete as he clearly isn't notable. Tavantius (talk) 16:38, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Collapse spate of brand new editors seemingly canvassed to this discussion. Daniel (talk) 09:21, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reconsider deletion. An article from The Varsitarian provides significant coverage of Cruz's role in forming OperaJuan, an emerging youth opera and musical theater group, demonstrating leadership in his field. Cruz is quoted discussing the group's mission, showing he's considered an authority figure. The coverage provides substantive, independent information that establishes Cruz's notability in the field of Philippine music. I have expanded the article with this information. Ixo490 (talk) 03:50, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's the publication of his alma mater. There's one sentence for background and two quotes. It's not really enough.-KH-1 (talk)

Retain. Did some research. Person is active performer. There is much evidence to this. Discography is also legitimate. Tracks are in all streaming platforms. Thompson.walkins (talk) 05:56, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. Notability has nothing to do with being an "active performer". You have to do be unusual to be notable, not WP:MILL. You need to stand out so that the media gives you WP:SIGCOV. For example, winning a Tony Award. Also, plenty of Philippine performers get a lot of WP:SIGCOV. See, for example, Lea Salonga or Morissette Amon. -- Ssilvers (talk) 16:04, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We can retain the article. Google recognizes the legitimacy of the artist. Ixo490 (talk) 06:15, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. I believe there are compelling reasons to keep the article. As an emerging artist in the Philippine music and theater scene, his role in forming OperaJuan demonstrates leadership and initiative, highlighting his contributions to the local arts community. While he may not have extensive coverage yet, Wikipedia should be open to documenting rising talents, especially those making innovative strides in their fields. The presence of the artist's tracks on major streaming platforms and evidence of active performances suggest a legitimate, ongoing career in the arts, providing a solid foundation for the article that can be expanded as the artist's career progresses. Furthermore, as a young artist working in opera and musical theater in the Philippines, the artist may represent an important voice in the country's evolving performing arts scene, making it valuable to document his work for those researching contemporary Philippine culture and music. Retaining the article allows for future growth; it's not uncommon for articles on emerging artists to start small and develop over time. Additionally, including articles on up-and-coming artists from various countries enriches Wikipedia's content diversity, offering a more comprehensive view of global arts and culture. Given these points, I suggest keeping the article with appropriate sourcing and a neutral tone while monitoring for additional notable achievements or coverage that can further establish the artist's relevance. Editlife1tr (talk) 06:29, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per WP:SIGCOV and the socks chiming in on this discussion aren't helping their cause. APK hi :-) (talk) 06:31, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Collapse spate of brand new editors seemingly canvassed to this discussion. Daniel (talk) 09:21, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Editors are super obsessed with deleting articles of actual living professionals. Get a life. Keep the article. Loewemathers (talk) 06:37, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Googled the person and he is in fact a singer from the Philippines. Everything seems true and correct. I don't see any false or misleading information nor form of self-promotion. TOOLINK (talk) 06:43, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. I wonder how the people recommending deletion can verify the notability of any theater or opera artist from the Philippines when none of them are from the country. Not to mention, there's no existing database on Philippine theater and opera artists. This is a good contribution to the category. Thompson.walkins (talk) 06:51, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Second this. These people are bored to death. This could help expand the list of local artists from Philippines. I don't see enough information on them. Ixo490 (talk) 06:55, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Opera is a niche area of performing arts. Looks like their country doesn't have reliable information regarding this field. However, this online database of classical musicians recognizes him. TOOLINK (talk) 07:02, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Struck duplicate !vote from Thompson.walkins. DMacks (talk) 14:05, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

~~Keep.~~ Make Wikipedia great again! Please stop deleting valuable, truthful information. Go and look for other pages to delete. There's real vandalism and then there are people hellbent on eliminating legitimate entries. TOOLINK (talk) 06:59, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Striking duplicate vote. You can only cast one bolded "vote". Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 07:07, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

To all of the new editors to Wikipedia, first "Welcome!" Secondly, Wikipedia determines whether or not an article should be Kept or Deleted not based on a vote count but based on whether or not notability can be established by reliable, independent secondary sources. They can't be "passing mentions" but provide SIGCOV (significant coverage). So, your pleas to save this article or accusations against other editors or Wikipedia won't have much impact but if you could find additional sources from mainstream new sources (not blogs or social media) could help establish notability and influence whether or not this article is Kept or not. Wikipedia is governed not by editors' opinions but by policies and guidelines and this is how we determine what articles should be Kept and which ones should be Deleted. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 07:12, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Collapse spate of brand new editors seemingly canvassed to this discussion. Daniel (talk) 09:21, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
~~Keep.~~ Even A.I. recognizes the person. Hate to admit it, but I trust Artificial Intelligence more than these notorious editors. Loewemathers (talk) 07:12, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply] What is that supposed to mean? Geschichte (talk) 08:55, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply] Struck duplicate !vote from Loewemathers. DMacks (talk) 14:05, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Account creation dates: User:Ixo490: 5 hours ago, User:Thompson.walkins: 3 hours ago, User:Editlife1tr: 3 hours ago, User:Loewemathers: 2 hours ago, User:TOOLINK: 2 hours ago. Northern Moonlight 09:00, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As an uninvolved administrator, I have taken actions (including page protection and collapsing seemingly-canvassed participation from brand new editors), to restore order and remove disruption from this debate. Daniel (talk) 09:22, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Certainly seems like a talented artist who could merit an article at some point, but right now, the notability just isn't there. To anyone canvassed to come here: deletion isn't a punishment, it's just that Wikipedia's purpose is to recognize notability, not help create it. CoffeeCrumbs (talk) 13:15, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. I wish him well, but (agreeing with CoffeeCrumbs) WP:TOOSOON. Narky Blert (talk) 14:29, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - first, and most importantly, notability is not established. Secondly, the article was written by an obvious WP:SPA who created the article in their own sandbox two hours after opening their account. Thirdly, the number of other SPAs flooding this discussion with pwersonal attacks and assumptions of bad faith doesn't inspire confidence. If the article subject was truly notable there'd be no need for all that. It seems to me the subject or their friends or fans are involved in this. - The literary leader of the age ✉ 23:15, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - In agreement with all the real voters above. Upon inspection, I think his OperaJuan operation might be closer to notability because they have received some media notice in their country. But since this article is about Mr. R.N. Cruz, he must achieve notability via reliable media coverage, and so far he's only in self-promotional mode. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 13:55, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete for now per above and WP:TOOSOON. --Lenticel ^(talk) 00:53, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.