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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was No consensus, so keep. --Deathphoenix 03:13, 31 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sophia Yan

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This sounds like a remarkable young woman and I genuinely dislike bringing this here since she really seems notable, but there are no relevant Googles and the whole thing seems rather self-promotional. - Lucky 6.9 17:12, 24 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep Wow look at all those awards. Ruby 17:14, 24 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep — I had considered listing this page for deletion, but didn't because I read the author's statement when he or she created the page. He/she seems to realize that it may be a vanity page. Kareeser|Talk! 17:16, 24 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. I think that might have been me, not her. It is grossly self-promotional, but if she wants to put in the time and effort I am happy start with that as a basis for an article. I googled a little and found a few references - mostly high school awards admittedly. She is at Oberon. She works for their paper. I would like more details about her tours and a whole lot more references. I say keep but modify the living daylights out of it. Lao Wai 17:18, 24 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. As a new writer/editor to Wikipedia, I have yet to learn the format, rules, etc.! Would appreciate some help in revising the article to "Wikify" the entry. I hope to continue adding to the site with information about rising artists whose contributions I believe have a more far-reaching capacity than they will ever know.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 170.20.11.116 (talk • contribs)
Just be sure that your subjects have received verifiable recognition before posting and always cite your sources. PJM 17:55, 24 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
If all those performances, awards, and write ups can be verified, it's too outstanding to delete, IMO. PJM 17:42, 24 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • That would be fantastic. I believe links do exist for these awards; however, it seems the pages are updated periodically with a list of the new winners, etc. I am unsure how to find those pages again, if they are even still on the web. Do not know how to link pages!!— Preceding unsigned comment added by 170.20.11.116 (talk • contribs)
  • Delete unless proofs are provided (in which case, I would agree for a speedy keep). - Liberatore(T) 17:37, 24 January 2006 (UTC) I have no idea of what notability those achievements imply, so I am withdrawing myself from this discussion. - Liberatore(T) 14:02, 25 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. The awards put her well above the threshold required by WP:MUSIC ("Has won or placed in a major music competition."). I agree that the article needs some attention to verifiability, though. –Sommers (Talk) 17:53, 24 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per various reasons mentioned. Looks like it's already in the process of being cleaned up. OhnoitsJamieTalk 21:45, 24 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep -- Astrokey44|talk 23:50, 24 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep pending further verification/importance checks, cleanup in progress, editor/s have added some links showing awards meeting appearing to meet WP:MUSIC since nomination and earlier votes. Editor is encouraged to continue, and to refer to WP:BIO for the general biography guidelines. There are templates there where you can copy code to set up information boxes in standard ways, add pictures, and otherwise Wikify it. Barno 00:30, 25 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. Impressive sounding but further investigations seems to reveal that the awards, competitions and "tour" are all youth student activities. There are lots of these all over the world and lots of kids win these. I don't think participants or even winners of these are particularly notable considering that there are people Sophia's age performing exclusively in "adult" settings with adult peers. Crunch 00:43, 25 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Update. I do not believe any of the awards, media citations, concerts, etc. meet WP:MUSIC The competitions are either not major enough and/or she did not win or place in them. Again, they sound impressive, but they're not. Crunch 01:47, 25 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. The reason I'm fighting this so much it that I think it sets a dangerous precedent for including articles for every young person who particpates in these young peoples music competitions, maybe wins one and gets written up in their hometown paper. It's easy to make it look impressive and if we allow this, Wikipedia will be inundated with articles of talented kids. This is not Midori or Josh Groban, not even close, and I do not see that she was "featured" in the NY Times. The article was from the New Jersey local news section of the Times (she lives in New Jersey) talking about teenagers that weren't getting into trouble. That's a long way from a feature story in the Arts section of the Times. With all due respect, I really think AfD submissions like this deserve more careful analysis. It's nothing personal against Ms. Yan, who seems like a perfectly charming, intelligent, and talented young lady who will go very far in music, or whatever she decides to pursue. It's about keeping to the WP:MUSIC and WP:BIO guidelines. Crunch 12:48, 25 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: There's a difference between the Spokane metro area and the New York metro area in terms of notability. The NYT has a very high standard for news articles, and the article in question was not just a filler blurb, but made its way into the Metro section of the number two newspaper in the country. That says something about the quality of the talent and/or potential. Calwatch 05:32, 26 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: The NY Times article was not about youths not getting into trouble; it was merely an opening. The rest of the article features two young pianists, Dae Hyung Ahn and Sophia Yan, both NJ residents. I believe the same article was later distributed in the Metro section of the Times. In addition, some of the competitions are now registed under a different name, but the winners do not change. From what I could find, she seems to have placed first a number of times in various competitions. You win a Steinway in one of them (cannot remember which) as the first place winner! Also, Midori can no longer be considered a youth. The difference is this -- while Midori and Groban have careers, they are professionals. Yan is a rising star, which is why I am intent on following her career path. Exactly that makes her a notable youth. There are some more details that I suppose can be included to fit the bio requirements. Mozart250
  • Comment. If Wikipedia is about noting rising young stars with potential then we should Keep all the new young rock bands we keep Deleting here. As for Midori, I meant Midori when she was young and competing on the stage on equal footing with adults. Same with Groban. Also, I don't see anywhere that the Steinway Society competition "gives away a Steinway." According to the Web site, "The Steinway Society is a tax exempt, piano scholarship organization" which people pay to join. Also, people pay to attend the conerts. They take the proceeds from the membership and the concert admissions and divide it up into scholarship funds for the winners. Last years it was "$3-4,000" to all the winners. Crunch 18:36, 25 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • 'Comment. Thanks. I'm sorry about that. I still don't see anything on the MTNA web site about giving away a piano, but I trust you're right. IN any case, I'm not sure if the value of the prize is any relation to the notability of the perfomer. Speaking of the MTNA competition, it does say that the purpose of the national competition which Yang won is "to provide educational experiences for students and teachers and to recognize exceptionally talented young artists" which again just puts her in the really talented student category, not qute in the WP:MUSIC league. Crunch 21:22, 25 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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