Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/True Assassin

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge to List of Fate/stay night characters. As is usual with these closes, I will add the afdm tag to the articles, and then check them again in a few weeks. Any that have not been merged will then be redirected. Black Kite 16:38, 7 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

True Assassin

First off I will state that yes, this is a very large nomination. However all the articles share the same issue: they have all existed very long term in this state with *no* improvement whatsoever, and no effort to push for notability. Upon research, sources have only turned up for a few of the characters alone, and they are excluded from this nomination. Salvageable information can be combined into a list, however given the number of merge targets any such proposal is best handled here than via singular articles. Kung Fu Man (talk) 05:46, 1 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Per nomation, suggesting the following also be deleted:

Note: This debate has been included in the list of video game related deletions. Kung Fu Man (talk) 05:51, 1 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Anime and manga-related deletion discussions. —-- Nomader ^(Talk) 06:15, 1 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - Articles do not meet WP:N, contain almost no WP:RS. Fair use images in the articles should be deleted as well. -- Nomader ^(Talk) 06:20, 1 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete all None of these meet WP:N. —/Mendaliv/^2¢/_Δ's/ 07:11, 1 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Merge – to List of Fate/stay night characters. Probably the best way to go about this. Keep Saber (Fate/stay night), one of the major characters in the series. See [1], [2], [3], [4], [5]. Other characters that can assert notability are Shirō Emiya, Archer (Fate/stay night), and Rin Tōsaka. — sephiroth bcr ^(converse) 07:50, 1 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The points brought up for Saber are suitable. Retracting her article from the AfD.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 08:00, 1 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Merge: Per sephiroth bcr. -- Goodraise (talk) 09:23, 1 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Merge as suggested. Kudos to nom for being reasonable on withdrawing Saber, the remainder are not notable enough for separate articles. Xymmax ^{So let it be written} _{So let it be done} 16:57, 1 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Merge per all versions of WP:FICT, nominator's suggestion, and consensus that this is the best way to handle individually non-notable elements of a notable franchise. —Quasirandom (talk) 17:15, 1 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, as the characters are from a fairly well-known series of games as well as an anime series released domestically in the US. However, I'll vote Merge as long as the information is indeed MERGED, not merely deleted and the names redirected. Nezu Chiza (talk) 17:22, 1 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to the individual entries on List of Fate/stay night characters. I'm not see much worth keeping/merging. The articles are mostly game guides. The individual characters have not received significant coverage by sources independent of the works, or those producing the works. --Farix (Talk) 23:07, 1 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Merge as suggested. Edward321 (talk) 00:42, 2 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect - The majority of each of the pages are cruft, and they seem to be succinctly covered in the list article. --Izno (talk) 00:43, 2 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, Seems a lot of people are under the impression this is from "a" video game. The series reuses the same main charactors in many diffrent media forms, from the first game, it's sequal, the anime series, manga, and light novel, and even an upcomming fighter game released by Capcom.
That's not the concern here though. These characters are not supported by notability as defined by Wikipedia, which says there need to be reliable secondary sources to establish that these articles should remain on Wikipedia. Without those sources, it's generally agreed that, if they are part of a long running series, or one that is supported by other media, it's best to merge them to a list and then redirect. As these articles don't have reliable sources, it would seem best to upmerge them. I'm not sure if you're confused on some point or if there's another issue at hand, or something else. --Izno (talk) 03:12, 2 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I was implying people were looking in the wrong places for reliable sources; just as game info. There's a lot of info on each of these pages that would have to be condenced if merged, or you would have some very long pages. I'm not one to bother looking for other sources mind you ;), but I'm just saying I don't think people were looking for the sources in the right areas, since there's so many diffrent forms of media these cover. If there was any merging, then all the classes should at least be kept seperate, with True Assassin being plased in with assassin.
You're being a bit hypocritical when you say "[...]people were looking in the wrong places for reliable sources;[...]" followed by "I'm not one to bother looking for other sources [...]". From what I can tell, the onus is on those who wish to keep articles like these to provide the sources, while it is merely being polite for everyone !voting to delete or merge to assemble sources for you (plural). As for what could be kept separate, again, the choice isn't defined by us, but by what the reliable sources cover. If there's nothing out there to support independent articles, everything gets merged or deleted if that is what consensus comes up with. As for condensing, I don't see anything worth merging either, which is why I !voted to straight up redirect. You may feel free to keep your keep !vote, but there is little to back it up from what I can see. --Izno (talk) 17:29, 2 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Mege all as suggested. McWomble (talk) 09:50, 2 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete all per WP:WAF guidelines. Almost nothing to merge. Small amount of referenced out-of-universe material (voice actors, etc) can be easily included in the parent article/s. Marasmusine (talk) 14:46, 2 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
One cannot [[Wikipedia:Merge and delete|merge and delete' at the same time. It's either one or the other, or we combine the page histories in the target articles. The latter takes too much time (imo), so that's why the articles should be straight redirects if you're going to say "include some of the info in the parent articles". --Izno (talk) 17:29, 2 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Destroy them all! — all articles contain nothing but game guide material, excessive plot summaries/descriptions, or otherwise unverifiable original research. There is nothing here to merge or redirect. MuZemike (talk) 18:18, 2 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This is NOT a game guide. Reading this article will NOT help you throughout the actual play of Fate / Stay Night. This article is here for reference only. 75.174.186.124 (talk) 18:37, 3 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

— 75.174.186.124 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
"Strength: A. Agility: B. Wisdom: C," etc, in every article. That is certainly game guide material. MuZemike (talk) 01:10, 4 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Do you actually KNOW what the articles are about? Do you even know what type of game Fate is? These character properties are part of the story only not even related to the gameplay. Why not quote abilities as well? They could easily be game guide material. There are other ways these properties can be shown without it being in a game guide context. Please check up on what you are commenting on before making such statements. -- Highwind ⁸₈⁸, the Fuko Master 01:28, 5 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

OK. It's still excessive character descriptions nonetheless; in either case, it's still unnecessary for the encyclopedia. MuZemike (talk) 14:45, 5 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Merge all in the spirit of compromise between the nominator and other Wikipedians. Would also support deleting all of them if we can safely conclude that this cannot be improved to meet our guidelines. But I'd be comfortable postponing that for a later decision, on a later article, if there is consensus that there is WP:POTENTIAL here. Randomran (talk) 19:22, 2 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Merge all as they are all secondary characters with little notability -- Highwind ⁸₈⁸, the Fuko Master 01:28, 5 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Merge and prune. I'm with Randomran with this one. Although, I'm worried there's not going to be much to merge. I think we might end up with a stub that has a borderline claim to notability. Icemotoboy (talk) 02:36, 5 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Fictional characters-related deletion discussions. -- Raven1977 (talk) 20:14, 5 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete all. No notability + very generic names to have redirects of. -- Magioladitis (talk) 00:48, 6 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. On principle. Find more constructive ways to contribute to wp. Laurent paris (talk) 00:20, 7 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"On principle"?--Kung Fu Man (talk) 00:20, 7 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Merge All to List of Fate/stay night characters. Characters do not seem to have independent notability out of the series that they appear in, no third party coverage in reliable sources, etc. Lankiveil ^{(speak to me)} 03:55, 7 December 2008 (UTC).[reply]
Merge to List of Fate/stay night characters. They do not have notability outside of the series or anything not series related. However there is no reason to disinclude the information known about these characters. Having played part of the game I can state that the information present is most certainly not a game guide. The 'stats' of the chracters have no in game value other than that they exist. It is simply an easy way for those who already understand certain concepts within the series (and many times even those without knowledge) an easy way to identify key traits of characters. A section detailing what each of these things means may need to be added so that people who are reading it for the first time would be able to better understand. All in all i see no good reason to delete relevant information that could prove useful to those looking up these specific characters (I can honestly say that I know of at least 15-17 people who have used said pages as references for information directly relating to the characters). While they may be minor characters in the story, enough information is available that it is plausible to include arelatively detailed description of thei abilities. I reread the paragraph given about each character in the list article, and it proved to quite unsatisfactory, especially compared to the available information. Things such as abilities are relevent to the article as all characters are relatively defined in that universe by their trademark and other abilities and are thus (imo) relevant. Also isn't information directly from the source that created it (The Game, the manga, as well as the anime) a primary source of notability? I could be wrong but I thought that I would ask. Also does needing to have played the game fall under unverifiable original research? I mean it IS pretty verifiable... just play the game. If I am wrong about anything feel free to correct me, I just don't want to see useful or relevent information being lost without good reason.Firelordozaie (talk) 05:04, 7 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.