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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep. Black Kite 01:37, 6 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

World Chess Championship 2011

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World Chess Championship 2011 (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

While the 2009 iteration of this contest would be appropriate and probably has enough verifiable reliable sources to have an entry right now, WP:CRYSTAL suggests that the following iteration having an article would not be appropriate. As the article itself notes, it's not even certain who would be involved because the participants would be decided in 2008-2009. Erechtheus (talk) 02:08, 30 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete. The first sentence says it all - it "WILL BE a match". The stub reads like an advertisement promoting an event that has yet to take place. While the event might be notable, the preliminary qualification events wouldn't appear to be worthy of an encyclopedia article. Delete per WP:CRYSTAL and WP:NOT. Cleo123 (talk) 02:49, 30 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment If you want to delete that one, why don't you delete 2008 Summer Olympics ? After all, it could still be cancelled, and the first sentence of the article is "The 2008 Summer Olympics [...] will be celebrated from..." so the first sentence says it all :-) SyG (talk) 16:35, 30 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete It doesn't seem that anything verifiable and of interest can be said about this event. Does it have a venue, a date, a host, etc? Are there verifiable sources for such info? If so I would change to a keep. If not, create the article again when something of note is verifiable about the event.Ryan Paddy (talk) 05:16, 30 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment As Bubba73 explains below, there are articles on events that will take place in a far far away future, the most critical example being 2028 Summer Olympics. Even if an event has not taken place already, the plans about the event may be notable by themselves. SyG (talk) 16:35, 30 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Sure, the plans may be notable. Where is the evidence of that notability? The only plan mentioned is how to qualify, and the only source for that is not independant. I'm not bothered by it staying, because it seems sure to become notable sooner or later, but going by the book there's no evidence that it (or the plans for it) are notable right now, so going by strict policy it should be deleted unless evidence of notability can be provided. The closest I see right now is this, and that establishes a (maybe) reliable source but not notability. Where are the sources anticipating this event? Perhaps I'm being too literal about policy given that I think an article will probably be appropriate quite soon, but my reading of policy is to delete. Ryan Paddy (talk) 22:36, 30 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment The event is notable, see World Chess Championship. Bubba73 (talk), 23:05, 30 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Hey, there's no way I'd deny that the series in general isn't notable. The World Chess Championship sometimes makes international front-page news. I'm just saying that no evidence of notability for this particular 2011 event has been evidenced. The parent series being notable doesn't automatically make every event notable. It probably will become highly notable as it draws closer, but there's no evidence that it is right now. So technically it doesn't warrant an article at this time. Happy to change my opinion if evidence of notability of the 2011 event can be found. Ryan Paddy (talk) 00:49, 1 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. It's clearly not an advertisement and doesn't read like one. It is an event that is definitely taking place and is verifible (the qualification process has already begun) so WP:CRYSTAL does not apply. There's no point in deleting it. Pawnkingthree (talk) 14:24, 30 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
comment We don't know where the 2028 olympics will be held, or who will be playing in them either. (Some of the paricipants haven't even been born yet!) So the arguement against the 2011 World Chess Championship doesn't hold water. Bubba73 (talk), 14:56, 30 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

::: And the qualifications for it have already started, i.e. Chess Grand Prix 2008-2009. Bubba73 (talk), 17:47, 30 April 2008 (UTC) [reply]

  • Keep As with football (soccer) and the Olympics the process of vetting for this championship has already begun years in advance. That meets with WP:CRYSTAL. Just be thankful we only have one championship to worry about nowadays. --Dhartung | Talk 19:25, 30 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Although it is pretty clear which way this discussion is going, quoting from Crystal Ball "Individual scheduled or expected future events should only be included if the event is notable and almost certain to take place. If preparation for the event is not already in progress, speculation about it must be well documented". The event is notable, it is almost certainly going to take place, and the preliminary rounds have already started. Bubba73 (talk), 20:19, 30 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment The obvious difference between these Olympics articles and this one is that you can actually say something verifiable, notable, and with citation to reliable sources. You very apparently can't say more about this event than you can the 2040 US Presidential election. You can say that it's going to be a Republican versus a Democrat in 2040, and you can say that it's going to be the winner of one contest versus the winner of a competition between the winners of two other contests to determine the victor of the World Chess Championship in 2011. The preliminaries starting aren't enough. You have to actually be able to say something about the event. Erechtheus (talk) 22:03, 30 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Determining the 2011 world chess champion is a three-year procedure that has already started. The equivalent of the presidential primaries have already started. Bubba73 (talk), 00:37, 1 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Months before that process started, we knew the players and the issues. Tons of reliable sources had offered coverage. Can the same be said here? If so, why isn't it in this article? Erechtheus (talk) 01:08, 1 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
You're right - there needs to be more in the article, not less. Some of the participants are currently playing in the first round of the 2011 championship, Chess Grand Prix 2008-2009. Bubba73 (talk), 01:21, 1 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment In the event the article is changed, I'll certainly re-evaluate my position. I think we're all happy to see this article around if it has something to say. Erechtheus (talk) 01:25, 1 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The information is in the sub-article, Chess Grand Prix 2008-2009. But the parent article World Chess Championship 2011 is needed to give context to the sub-article, because that is what's referenced from top-level articles like Template:World Chess Championships and World Chess Championship. Otherwise it's like having articles on the primaries but not on the election. I guess we could cut and paste all the information from Chess Grand Prix 2008-2009 to World Chess Championship 2011, but I'm of the opinion that if a person is using Wikipedia then they know how to follow links. Peter Ballard (talk) 01:39, 1 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Why not redirect WCC2011 to the GP article until there is something to actually put in the WCC2011 article? Erechtheus (talk) 01:50, 1 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Because there is stuff that properly belongs in the WCC2011 article not the GP article, like details of the cycle, or the fact that this is the first "normal" cycle after the "special case" 2008 and 2009 matches. OK, that's not much, but why delete an article because it's short? Why merge articles which we know will need to be unmerged in the future? Peter Ballard (talk) 02:08, 1 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment What stuff? The cycle details need to be in the main WCC article. Same with the "normal" cycle stuff. I see absolutely nothing that needs to be at WCC2011 at this point. It seems to me that the chess community has just come out in force to see to it that a placeholder can be kept for whatever reason until notable things abotu WCC2011 actually start to happen. Erechtheus (talk) 21:44, 1 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Such as the preliminary rounds: Chess Grand Prix 2008-2009. Bubba73 (talk), 22:25, 1 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment The preliminary round that has started has its very own article. If that's all there is, I'd again propose redirect. Erechtheus (talk) 23:13, 1 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment There is more to the event than just the preliminary round. The format of the whole cycle has gathered some comments and controversy from all over the world. I have added a "See also" section with a few links to give some hinsight on the reactions. SyG (talk) 07:25, 2 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Right. since 1948 the championship has usually been a three-year cycle, but the 2011 championship has a fprmat that is completely different from any other. Bubba73 (talk), 14:58, 2 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Comparing the World Chess Championship to the Olympics is a truly ludicrous analogy. Sorry, but to imply that these events are on the same footing in terms of notability strikes me as POV pushing. The fact that there is NO MATERIAL to contain in the article (!) should tell most reasonable editors that the article's creation is PREMATURE! GEESH! LOL! Cleo123 (talk) 05:58, 1 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Qualifying events for this championship cycle have already begun. Quale (talk) 20:50, 1 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Some editors have expressed the view that a future event article with little to no content should not have a page. I have some sympathy with that idea, however WP:CRYSTAL does not say that at this time. For those who wish to delete future events articles with little or no contents then your welcome to try and get the WP:CRYSTAL policy changed accordingly. SunCreator (talk) 00:51, 2 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment It's not a matter of WP:CRYSTAL being dispositive -- it's whether there are verifiable reliable sources such that this is presently notable. WP:CRYSTAL just offers some guidance as to the types of considerations that are weighed. It does not, contrary to what some seem to be indicating, say that if preparations have begun, the article should exist. Erechtheus (talk) 01:14, 2 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment More than preperations have begun. The games that will decide the 2011 World Chess Champion started last month. These are equivalent to the division playoffs in the baseball World Series or the primaries in the US presidential elections. Except for the person who wins the 2009 World Cup, the particpants are named in Chess Grand Prix 2008-2009. Bubba73 (talk), 03:10, 2 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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