Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Youssef Barakat (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 03:15, 10 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Youssef Barakat

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While he passes WP:NFOOTY, having played five games for the national team, I cannot find any sources on him online (we don't even have a date of birth). The only results I can find are on the similarly-named player born in 1998. The article was actually nominated for deletion, and the result was delete. I'm unsure why it was ultimately not deleted. Nehme₁₄₉₉ 02:19, 25 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Nehme₁₄₉₉ 02:19, 25 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. Nehme₁₄₉₉ 02:19, 25 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lebanon-related deletion discussions. Nehme₁₄₉₉ 02:19, 25 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Nehme₁₄₉₉ 02:20, 25 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: despite passing WP:NFOOTY, WP:GNG is comprehensively failed. Paul Vaurie (talk) 03:39, 25 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Comment It seems that it was deleted in 2009 and recreated in 2020. Kacamata! ^Dimmi!!! 04:10, 25 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Kacamata: My edit in 2020 doesn't seem to have recreated the page. Nehme₁₄₉₉ 17:08, 25 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
So, what did happen? Someone forgot to delete it? But it seems that the article had not edits from 2009 to 2020. This is odd to say the least. I would say it almost impossible. An article in the en.WP. stays over 10 years without a single edit. Kacamata! ^Dimmi!!! 03:47, 26 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
This happened. Phil Bridger (talk) 17:15, 26 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Wait. If you, Nehme1499, asked the article to be restored, why did you open this AfD? Or is there something here I'm missing? Kacamata! ^Dimmi!!! 19:55, 26 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, I forgot about that; makes sense. At the time, I wasn't under the belief that WP:GNG had to be met, as long as NFOOTY was satisfied. Nehme₁₄₉₉ 21:15, 26 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - there is longstanding consensus that scraping by on NFOOTBALL with one or two appearances is insufficient when GNG is failed so comprehensively, as is the case here. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 16:23, 25 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom. Fails GNG. No Great Shaker (talk) 20:29, 25 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: This is very odd. We should dig it deeper. How is possible for a soccer player to have 5 caps for a national team and don't be covered by RS. Is this a hoax? Kacamata! ^Dimmi!!! 03:51, 26 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Kacamata: Both FA Lebanon and National Football Teams are reliable; there is no doubt he played international football for Lebanon. Given that he played pre-Internet era, though, contemporary sources at hand are naturally going to be limited. Nehme₁₄₉₉ 11:42, 26 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Keep 5 (!)appearances for the national team is more than enough and satisfies NFOOTY, much more than the 1 or 2 appearances we generally see for deletions. I have yet to see a player for a recognized national team being deleted. Is this the path we are going down?@Paul Vaurie:@GiantSnowman:@Nehme1499:. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ortizesp (talk • contribs)
Keep - passes WP:NFOOTBALL by a long way with the verified international caps, which, in my view and as per previous consensus, is superior to just playing a few minutes in a game between two FPL teams. Playing for your country was and still is one of the highest honours in the sport. Clear consensus that this supersedes GNG in many recent discussions including but not limited to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Victoria Balomenos, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tessy Bamberg-Schitter, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Linda Oe and, as recently as last month, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Aaron Xuereb. Worth noting that all of those were basically WP:SNOW keeps. No idea why Barakat should be treated differently at all. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 15:47, 26 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Ortizesp and Spiderone: There are literally no sources at all on the guy other than a couple of database websites. We don't even know his date of birth. WP:GNG superseeds NFOOTY, and notability is failed comprehensively in this case. Nehme₁₄₉₉ 15:58, 26 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

- I don't think we need to know his date of birth, FA Lebanon and NFT are strong enough sources in my opinion. I think national caps should confer GNG automatically, or at least that's close to how caps were treated historically.--Ortizesp (talk) 16:12, 26 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Confirmed to have played for his country, which is far beyond playing for a team in a fully professional league, such as League 2. The reason that it's difficult to find sources in the Roman alphabet is that transliteration from Arabic is notoriously inconsistent. Phil Bridger (talk) 17:15, 26 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Phil Bridger: I also (mainly) searched in Arabic, not in Latin script; I still couldn't find anything. Nehme₁₄₉₉ 21:15, 26 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: If it's confirmed by RS that he indeed played for a national team, then he's notable. A footballer who played for a national team is not a footballer who can barely pass NFOOTBALL. A footballer who played for a national team is someone who was good enough to be among the best footballers in his country and so, he easily pass our notability criteria. If we delete this article, we would be setting a very dangerous precedent. Kacamata! ^Dimmi!!! 20:03, 26 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Keep has played for his country passes WP:NFOOTY.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 17:32, 27 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Despite confirmed international appearances, and noting comments below that I have not seen an individual who has made appearances in a full FIFA / continental governing body sanctioned match deleted, there is no clear consensus regarding notability and regardless of what editors may claim below, there is no guideline that states that international appearances automatically confer GNG. Needs further discussion.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Fenix down (talk) 13:13, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Keep It's absolutely ridiculous that a notable football player is deleted simply because his pre-internet existence makes it hard to find sources. Editors have become married to the policies and essays without even using common sense. He passes WP:NFOOTY and played for the national team; playing on a national team makes you one of the best football players in the world. I will be very disturbed if a notable athlete is deleted because it was hard to find sources on a foreign-language, pre-Internet player. (JayPlaysStuff | talk to me | What I've been up to) 01:40, 2 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: WP:NFOOTY (and SNGs in general) exists for this exact reason, a notable person who garnered notability from the pre-internet era. The NFOOTY/GNG exception is only really applicable when the subject barely squeaks by NFOOTY with 1 or 2 appearances despite thoroughly failing GNG. Curbon7 (talk) 07:11, 2 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Playing multiple games for a national team passes WP:NSOCCER. I'm a bit concerned that deleting on an apparent GNG fail could be related to our inability to find existing sources, rather than the lack of existing sources. And, WP:N requires that an individual pass either WP:GNG or a WP:SNG; it's on solid ground to keep in this case. — Mikehawk10 (talk) 05:54, 7 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Keep I'm not sure why we were ever here with 5 national team appearances (2 of which I could quickly verify - didn't look further). Probably could find a lot more if there were better (any?) Lebanese sources online from 20 years ago! User:GiantSnowman are you sure about this? Nfitz (talk) 00:58, 10 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.